Messages

136

Wingsurfing, Windfoiling, Wingfoiling, Wing SUP / Re: Straight tail Wingfoil board opinions

« on: August 20, 2021, 07:17:20 AM »

...
I'm as shocked as anyone. This is really a revelation.

This is why I enjoy this forum. Real insight. Awesome. Thanks for sharing and doing the work! Will file all that in the 'need to remember' box, especially as I'm planning on building my first board this winter, and a straight tail sure does make shaping easier!

Appreciate that not everyone wants to ride small foils but for me that's a big win and if straight tails help that then hopefully everyone can be a winner! Each time I've dropped a foil size has been an eye opener (in more than one way!), and I think I've finally reached the point where I don't need to go any smaller for a daily driver. I'm so in tune with the Fluid LS, and it's performance is so spot on that I'm finally starting to get into the flow state where I'm just thinking about what I want to do rather than how I'm going to do it, or getting distracted by what it's doing in chop.

If a straight tail board comes into my quiver maybe I'll get the Fluid M (900 cm², 0.7L) if the board can get me up easily on it in 15 knots, but I don't think the additional benefits will be that great until it starts getting to around 20-25 knots+ when I won't need the straight tail anyway. If it lowers the range I can reliably use the LS, that would be a bigger win I think but am open minded.

137

Wingsurfing, Windfoiling, Wingfoiling, Wing SUP / Re: Straight tail Wingfoil board opinions

« on: August 19, 2021, 03:57:03 PM »

... When I’m powered up no little touchdowns are bringing me off foil it takes a major screw up. Besides that what tall masts are for. (Prone foil surfing, sure touchdowns will take you out, so maybe you need some magic.)...

I'm sympathetic to the straight tail philosophy but I do think it places priority on one aspect of winging, and that's the take off.

But there are some winging activities where the board can come into contact with the water accidentally where board shape does impact outcome. I think even you recognise this, with your concession to prone foilers needing some board shaped assistance.

For example: cranking upwind with the board levered to windward in wind against tide conditions, laying down aggressive carves where the board has to get close to the water to prevent foil ventilation, landing jumps.

On the longer mast point, I  have used a 100 mast a lot, and a mast that long is not without compromise. I think I prefer using the 85 as a daily driver.

Personally I'd be keen to have a straight tail in my quiver for marginal conditions especially if it means I can use a smaller 'big' foil, but once the breeze is above a solid 13+ knots and starting my Lethal and 1100 cm2 foil is doable, I'd choose to be on that because the touch down performance is more important than the take off to me as the breeze builds.

Having said that, Patrice says he developed the Lethal's tail to allow water to flow around it and off without turbulence/drag, so facilitating take off. A very different way to solving the same problem, but I do like the logic of the straight tail.

Another thought struck me - would an inflatable be considered a straight tail? With the rail release strips, their rails are quite boxy....

138

Wingsurfing, Windfoiling, Wingfoiling, Wing SUP / Re: wing foil board progression (2nd board) & Intro

« on: August 05, 2021, 05:47:12 AM »

Hi EastBay

I'm 65kg and my progression went from 120L 7'4, to 95L 5'4, 34L 5'3 and 65L 4'6 which is my only board at the moment as my 34L 5'3 died.

My comments on riding the 65L (kg=L) would be:

- wait until you're regularly gybing before going too small. If I had to restart my 65L after every second gybe, that would be a PITA, especially under 15 knots. If you can't get foiling, getting upwind on a smaller board can be a PITA because you have to keep forward movement to stay floating, which means bearing off wind. I am very mindful to keep upwind when it's light and bug out early if I get caught out and get taken downwind of my launch spot by the tide which can really rip where I am. I actually have to do (short) walks of shame on my 65L which I never did on my 95L when it's 10ish knots and I drop off the foil and can't get going again. I can manage those risks easily where I am.

My comments on riding the 34L would be:

- sinker boards are great, and don't have to be difficult. My 34L (-30) sinker was 5'3, so had a long waterline and lots of surface area. I could get going pretty easily in 15 knots with that shape using footstraps to assist in controlling the board underwater. I was expecting a real battle to get to grips with it but I lucked out with the board shape which made it relatively straightforward. [I'm planning on building a replacement this winter.]

My comments on riding the 95L (+30) would be:
- safe as houses. Was happy to go into exposed situations (offshore breeze for example) as I knew I could shlog back upwind. Performing was really good, and I enjoyed the board a lot. I experimented with smaller foils before going smaller board, which really amped up the performance too. I suggest you consider that too as an option.

139

Wingsurfing, Windfoiling, Wingfoiling, Wing SUP / Re: Wing foil sessions - beginner

« on: July 28, 2021, 06:36:05 AM »

... My next board is going to have a lot more nose volume so I can keep the front foot heavy. Right now this board has too little volume in my opinion. Maybe a lot of boards do? I need to ride some other wing boards.

It's an interesting point. In designing the Lethal I think Patrice moved the volume as far back as possible to keep it under the feet, so it's quite nose light. I've put my footstraps all the way back so that my front foot doesn't shove the nose under water when trying to get foiling and shloging around in the light. Can be really choppy where I am so a bit more stability is welcome as it's really tippy at volume=weight. Fortunately that hasn't upset the balance when foiling, and it hangs flat in the 'hang from the front foil' test

I'm sure I've seen a nose bulb on one new wing board recently - can't remember which...

On the nose rising when slowing down, [I am speculating here] but that's probably to do with the stab losing lift quicker than the front foil when approaching stall speed. If you were to design it the other way, the front foil would release first with zero chance of recovery, but if the stab goes first it increases the angle of attack on the main foil giving a few more moments to recover the situation... Could be that as you slow down you're trying to keep the nose up as lift is decreasing?

140

Wingsurfing, Windfoiling, Wingfoiling, Wing SUP / Understanding foil design - deep dive and Q&A into Gong range.

« on: July 18, 2021, 10:43:34 PM »

An hour of chat on foil design. Yes it's all about the Gong range, but that's not too say there is a lot of really interesting detail on foil design generally on shape and profile as well as how front foil, stab, and fuse length work together. Didn't really touch on mast length, which was the only missing topic. If you want to understand foils a bit better, this will be enlightening. Also a shame nobody asked why he's not designed anything that is 'proper' higher aspect, above 7...

https://youtu.be/EyDYcIhdW60

141

Wingsurfing, Windfoiling, Wingfoiling, Wing SUP / Re: Straight tail Wingfoil board opinions

« on: July 08, 2021, 03:35:15 PM »

holy crap - Armstrong did it - that board has every single detail I've been looking for and a few I didn't know to ask for.  Through handle???  better fin boxes?  yes please

Pretty much what I was thinking too. On the SUP wing range I'd prefer a sharper nose to help punch through our chop and a narrower overall width, but otherwise look really good to me.

142

Foil SUP / Re: Foildrive motor

« on: July 08, 2021, 01:35:11 AM »

A really good bicyclist puts out 150 watts.

Sorry to be a pedant, but done a lot of cycling!

You're missing a 0 (a typo I'm sure!)

Should be 1500 watts, which will be close to peak, depending on what period you measure over ..

A pro cyclist Functional Threshold Power (loosely described as the power they can sustain for an hour) will be between 5 to above 6 Watts per kg, as power output is very dependent on weight. So a 60kg climber will have a sustainable hour power of around 360 watts.

Wake Thief calculated that foil pumping needs about 300 watts, so that sets the above in context... Pumping is hard work! At my best my FTP was just around 305 watts, giving me an FTP of around 4.5 watts/kg.

143

Wingsurfing, Windfoiling, Wingfoiling, Wing SUP / Re: NEW NSI Wing Ding(Free) Spreader Bar

« on: June 05, 2021, 01:50:13 PM »

What do I think???

Ordered one!

Great ideas guys. Keep them coming!

144

Wingsurfing, Windfoiling, Wingfoiling, Wing SUP / Re: Foil wing fiddling

« on: June 03, 2021, 02:09:19 PM »

https://youtu.be/mUaVM2Hk008

Patrice offers his view on wing board design. Takes a minute to get into the interesting stuff...

I have this board and can confirm that I can't feel it sticking on take off. Whether a straight tail is better, I couldn't say but a straight tail does make sense to me too...

145

Wingsurfing, Windfoiling, Wingfoiling, Wing SUP / Re: Ocean Rodeo Glide-Allula

« on: June 01, 2021, 03:19:10 PM »

As i said above, the full Allula airframe was superior in everyway.

Ok, thanks!

Found your other thread, which fleshes out that assessment a bit...

146

Wingsurfing, Windfoiling, Wingfoiling, Wing SUP / Re: Ocean Rodeo Glide-Allula

« on: June 01, 2021, 02:06:48 PM »

Bill you'll be happy. it sounds like a f'in kite add, but that 5m felt like a 4m in its handling but was as powerful as the 6m wasp. We did a bunch of head to head tests vs WASP, vs Takuma wing ride III vs hybrid series. I would prob do a 3.5, 5m allula quiver and be set at 190 pds.

Great to have some feedback, finally! Thanks! Been impatiently waiting for these to arrive in the UK...

What was the difference between the full Aluula A Series and HL/hybrid like? I'm currently on a waiting list for an HL/hybrid 5m (went for Slicks for 4 and 3m as I was boom curious). I was up for getting an A Series, but it was the Dacron canopy that made me pause. I expect to throw some cash at a three wing A Series quiver in future though...

I'm not an expert or an OR spokeman so you may want to ask them, but the A series is full Allula airframe from what I saw. The HL is Allula boom and Dacron LE.
Seems like a lot of ppl are waiting for full Allula canopy. If that's the case I suspect you'll be waiting a very long time.

Sorry, I should have been clearer with my question. It was the difference in performance between the two - thought you got to ride both?

147

Wingsurfing, Windfoiling, Wingfoiling, Wing SUP / Re: Ocean Rodeo Glide-Allula

« on: June 01, 2021, 08:03:46 AM »

Bill you'll be happy. it sounds like a f'in kite add, but that 5m felt like a 4m in its handling but was as powerful as the 6m wasp. We did a bunch of head to head tests vs WASP, vs Takuma wing ride III vs hybrid series. I would prob do a 3.5, 5m allula quiver and be set at 190 pds.

Great to have some feedback, finally! Thanks! Been impatiently waiting for these to arrive in the UK...

What was the difference between the full Aluula A Series and HL/hybrid like? I'm currently on a waiting list for an HL/hybrid 5m (went for Slicks for 4 and 3m as I was boom curious). I was up for getting an A Series, but it was the Dacron canopy that made me pause. I expect to throw some cash at a three wing A Series quiver in future though...

148

Wingsurfing, Windfoiling, Wingfoiling, Wing SUP / Re: Blue Planet Show- Wing Foil interviews

« on: May 20, 2021, 03:18:38 PM »

https://www.instagram.com/tv/CPGrD_cDFac/?utm_medium=copy_link

Another brand joins the straight tail bandwagon

A narrower and 4" shorter version of the Boom 94 is similar to what I was designing in my head for a light wind board. Like the look of that...

149

Wingsurfing, Windfoiling, Wingfoiling, Wing SUP / Re: Wing Harness (NSI)

« on: May 20, 2021, 02:58:43 AM »

This was incredible for going upwind!!

Yes... it is, isn't it! 👍

150

Wingsurfing, Windfoiling, Wingfoiling, Wing SUP / Re: windows on wings - to have or not to have?

« on: May 17, 2021, 02:46:55 PM »

Wouldn't buy a wing without them. There is just too much going on where I wing not to have good visibility of what is coming at you from behind the wing, including shipping, yachts and other small watercraft, as well as keeping track of posts and bouys there are dotted around the place. This is more than just checking before you gybe...

Lifting the wing to look around would be such an intrusion into the pleasure of winging that it would really bug me. Why should I have to unhook, loose nearly all power, take a moment to slow down, just to check I'm still safe? With windows placed around the strut I can see whenever I want to as I hold the wing pretty vertical all the time going upwind in a harness, going full speed all the time  Downwind the wing doesn't obstruct visibility nearly as much as it's much more dynamic, so windows are less necessary.