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Messages - PonoBill

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1
That's a pretty cool link--the PDF has about everything a surfer should know about waves in one place. Not much on refraction, or how the wave energy gets transferred to a surfer, but otherwise complete.

I also don't argue with folks anymore about what happens when you ride a wave. Thinking this is a gravity sport where you accelerate by sliding down the wave requires a mindset I don't expect to alter. I'd think the first time you see someone accelerate to 20+ mph while going backward up the face of Peahi would kill that notion, and the idea of foiling for a mile because you slid down a three-foot wave should seal the deal. But no.

2
When I explain how the water actually moves in a wave most surfers decide I'm totally nuts, so I don't do that anymore. I just say "google it".

3
Wingsurfing, Windfoiling, Wingfoiling, Wing SUP / Re: Axis Foils
« on: January 14, 2021, 09:05:16 AM »
I'm fond of the 340, especially with the 1000 or 1150 front wing. It's a little nutty with the 860, but if you want something that turns fast I guess it's okay. I was originally using it with the 1020 and didn't care for it, but with the 1000 it feels balanced, not too slide-y, and makes for a responsive setup. I thought it would be cool with the 860 but it feels like I forgot to put the stabilizer on. How would I know what that feels like?

What would you suppose.

4
Yes, dontsink, I think you are correct. As I said, I can picture situations in a wave where some downward AOA would be beneficial. The force applied by the wave to the board and foil is not a vector parallel to the water. How that ultimately works would require substantial analysis. The wave energy is roughly a sine curve with energy being transferred through a continuously varying vector. I'm reminded of that every time I try to get some energy from the backside of a wave. The energy is there, it's just harder to get at it.

The force applied by a wing, kite, or sail is a bit less complicated. For a kite or wing, it's mostly a vector applied parallel to the board, through the feet of the rider. It's not simply parallel and in line with the center of the board. With a wing the force is applied relatively high on the rider's body (shoulders, rotated some through the extension of the arms plus whatever deviation of the wind force vector is caused by wing angle) so there are substantial forces pushing the nose down through the lever of the rider's body and pushing the whole assembly downwind. That's one reason we can reach a little higher with a harness--the force is applied lower and with less downwind vector through arm extension, as it is with a kite.

All that aside, it's unquestionable that what works for wing foiling is not necessarily and automatically what will work for surf foiling.

And yes, SanO, technique and ability trumps setup. 70 pound kids with their energy and agility can take something totally unsuited, slam it together with no regard to AOA or any finer point, and pump their way off to the horizon. Geezers who weigh three times what they do with the agility of a hippo need all the help they can get.

5
Same problem with Mark Raaphorst and Flying Dutchman. a superior product and a craftsman at the highest level, who is having a great life and doesn't want to sacrifice his water time. How could I possibly argue against that when all I ever did was work hard enough to get my "get fucked" money. I look at Elon Musk and think "ok, that's amazing, but I'd never want to do that". Does he have as much fun in a month as I do on a random Tuesday? I doubt it. The sense of accomplishment and the intellectual challenge must be fantastic, but the anguish? No thanks.

6
Wingsurfing, Windfoiling, Wingfoiling, Wing SUP / Re: Axis Foils
« on: January 13, 2021, 04:15:34 PM »
I've managed to kick my 1150 several times already. Maybe I could use a 1300 as a step to get back on the board.

7
Yes, mast shimming depends on whether the board has tail rocker or not, and how much. I had to throw a 1o shim under the front of the mast on my previous board to get to to fly level instead of nose down, but my next board from the same shaper sets the fuse perfectly level with the deck, so no need to shim that one. Basically shimming the ride angle of the board when the wing is flying level in the water is what you're doing.

Actually, you've doing a bit more than that. You're also setting the AOA of the foil--both wing and stabilizer--when the board is in the water. To see what that affects consider an extreme in both directions. Say the foil is pitched down 10 degrees. Obviously draggy as hell, but it also pulls the board down onto the water when you're moving forward. You'll have your work cut out for you trying to get the wing to fly--you'll have to stand on the tail like crazy. And when the AOA reaches zero degrees it will explode out of the water. Now pitch the wing 10 degrees up. Still draggy, but now it's trying to lift the tail. Get the board up to speed and it will come up easily--and stall.

8
Your reply is why I included Blue Planet in my response, not because of company size, but because Robert does videos about his products that explain all the features and why they are present. Explaining who a product suits and what specifications they should choose is a huge challenge for complex products like iPhones, but surfboards?

Most manufacturers leave it to you to figure it out. They used to rely on the magazines, but that's history, and of course, if they scored badly in a shootout that model or product was doomed and had no recourse other than spending a lot of money on advertising.

9
I bought the carbon foilmount to build a board with an idea I had that turned out to be more or less what Gong did with their new inflatable. I was going to build a rectangular carbon box around an XPS core with top and bottom handles, foot strap inserts, and a foilmount stuck on the bottom and then wrap it with a lightweight shell that is the floaty parts of the board. A rigid, super strong core for all the stressed elements and super light shell around it. I might still do it some time but I have all the wizardhat stuff sitting at my shop. Unfortunately, all that is in Hood River and I'm in La Jolla.

I just ordered the shim set and hardware so I can get rid of my bogus shim. Thanks for the inspiration.

10
10mm is a big shim!, nice to know that it works OK, what worries me with bigger angle shims is not the shim(works in compression only) or the screws but the angle you are forcing on the sliding inserts inside the plastic box rails.They will have all the pressure concentrated on the front or back end of each slider, not ideal.
But if yours has not gone bust i guess there is a lot of leeway.

No, it's not ideal, but it works (so far). The plates are generally countersunk. If I was worried about the issue I'd just make the fit between screw and hole a little bit bigger so the screw could cock a bit. I lost the 1/4" shim Junya gave me, it's probably in the back of my van in Maui, so I've been using a bogus shim made from hotel card keys, expired credit cards and aluminum tape. It's substantially less than 1/4"--probably about 5mm--but it's okay. I don't detect any wobble. My board feels draggier going after waves but that's probably more the difference between Maui outer reef waves and Cali sand bar stuff. And the nutty currents and backwash at SanO, not to mention all the sudden stops in grass, kelp, and occasionally the bottom.

Do you mean the wizardhat stuff? I like the design of their hardware, but it used to all be 6mm and I like 8mm. I guess I could get over that.  Especially since the Carbon Axis masts I'm using have hole mounts instead of slots, which are a bit of a PITA with standard T nuts.

11
Wingsurfing, Windfoiling, Wingfoiling, Wing SUP / Re: Axis Foils
« on: January 13, 2021, 08:19:04 AM »
The new HPS B Series foils are now up with specs, descriptions,  and pics on the Axis foils site.  Bottom of pg.1 and continued on pg.2  https://axisfoils.com/collections/wing-foil-wings

I am a bit disappointed, the S860  is now my goto foil for winging and I use my S920 under 17 knots for winging. I tried the S980 and I did not like the way it turns at all...
And the S1010 and S1150 are also not my thing.
I was hoping there would be a bigger S860 but it is all HA foils as far as I can see?
Perhaps the 890? But it will probably be less surface than the 860.

Come on Axis , why not a 960 with 1500 cm^2 ?

YES!!! I want that. While I'm whining, I'd also like a 960 with a little more gullwing to it. I'll take both. I feel like Oliver in the play: "Could I have some more, please."

A bit ridiculous, I switched to Axis so I could make my own wings, so far all I've done is chop up a slightly wounded 1020 and make a wing that could lift Jabba the Hut. All the elements are in place to whip up whatever I want. Brother Bob has his CAM router whipping out gorgeous carvings of anything that pops into his mind and is a master of CAD. I could probably send him napkin drawings and get beautiful wood wings that I can vacuum bag carbon onto. I'm just a lazy fuck. But if Axis doesn't do that soon...

12
Absolutely true for a lot of boards, especially those with some tail rocker. I've been shimming my mast plate since I started foil surfing. I don't agree that 3-4 mm is a maximum. Whatever it takes to get the center of the total incidence angle aligned with the centerline of the board will make it much easier to catch waves. On my L41 and later on my Jimmy Lewis starter board (after I foolishly added mast tracks to it, Jimmy set up the Tuttle to be correct to start with) that was 10mm (1/4") in the back--that transformed the board. If your shim is hard enough and matches the contour of both the bottom of the board and the foil plate (in other words, it has a gradual taper and extends all the way from back to front) the mechanical stresses aren't that much different. Just be sure to use screws long enough to engage the threads for five full turns at full tightness (the standard for max strength of screws in the size range we use is five threads engaged). When I got my Flying Dutchman board I didn't like the plate angle even though Mark makes a channel in the bottom of the board to mostly eliminate the tail rocker. I was using some thick washers to shim the plate (my fabrication capabilities are very limited on Maui) and I could feel some wobble. Junya gave me a 1/4" shim that Mark had made for him and the wobbles went away.

It's not quite so vital with wingfoiling, but when you see someone foiling along with the nose of the board waving around higher than the tail, it's obvious that they've either got some tail rocker or too much total incidence angle.

Dontsink, if your board is flat bottomed and you're shimming the front of the plate, it's possible your real problem is excessive total incidence angle between the stabilizer and the wing, though I can picture some situations in a wave where having a negative overall AOA would be helpful. I'd measure the total incidence angle, either with an angle gauge or using Admin's method, if it's more than 2-3 degrees you might shim that down. If you do, you'll likely be happier with the performance both for surfing and winging.

13
As much as I like walking into a surf shop, and love shops like Big Winds in Hood River, the reseller channel no longer really fits any business except bulk or semi bulk commodities. If UPS and FedEx weren't raising the costs of shipping absurdly and doing everything they can to kill the USPS the reseller channel would be dead, dead, dead.

Walmart, Amazon, and Costco have become behemoths by streamlining a clumsy distribution system. That would work and they'd be just as big and successful if the stream of goods from China was throttled to a trickle. Selling a product through distribution requires that the selling price be at least 3X the manufacturing cost, and generally, 4X is necessary for a worthwhile profit. DTC (Direct to consumer) only requires 2X and if shipping is finessed then it's 1.5X. As long as the reseller channel dominates and sets the price the DTC companies can charge 3X and pocket the added profit.  That's where Gong's big building is coming from. Well, that and the fact that companies with a strategy the market believes in have no trouble raising capital.

The marketing strategies for DTC companies are significantly different from reseller strategy. If Gong released 9 models of boards that all did more or less the same thing the distributors would say "Okay, we'll take 4 models but any we can't sell are coming right back to you. Sign this restocking contract. And we want extra margin for carrying all these." Worse yet, it would be a year or more before Gong really knew what was selling and a flood of unsellable boards came rolling back from dealers.

With a DTC model, they already know what the best-sellers are (they probably knew a few days after the models were released) and have a good idea where to ramp production for the spring.

Sounding like Colas is a good thing--he's one smart dude. I'd like to meet him some day.

14
120 then 220

15
That goFoil paint is really tough stuff, but it's hard to get anything to stick to it.

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