Topics

16

Foil SUP / Max wave size for foils?

« on: October 22, 2017, 09:02:38 PM »

How big of waves can foils handle?  Today I had a taste of some big waves.

I've been out with a torn or impinged shoulder cuff from a windsurfing mishap for a month or so, just now barely able to paddle again with a little pain and keeping my arm bent.  It was killing me waiting as I had just gotten 4 solid days of foiling in before the injury.  Today was the 5th day foiling and the swell was 10@12 but just couldn't wait anymore!  I was too scared for the full waves at first so just worked my way up the reforms from chest, head and finally 1.5 over clean face.  The biggest face I went down I keep the foil under until the bottom, just didn't feel safe on a steep drop in to even consider trying to pop it up.  At some point nearing the bottom the foil's drag was pretty strong and I didn't feel like it was going to go any faster, so perhaps foils just have a natural speed limit?  Like a terminal velocity?  I suppose some of that was all the mast in the water too.  There were doubles out there but after the 1.5 I didn't feel like it was really safe or smart to try at all.  The super cool thing was after they broke there were huge long and low swell sections which had a ton of energy to just foil endlessly, so dang fun!  My board/foil took a few doubles, but there is no damage so far (2011 Naish wood sandwich Hokua with stick-on foilmount).  I was actually not going to be surprised if it had delam'd or broken, the waves were big, but it's fine, solid still.  Which brings up another question, what is the best way to orient the board/foil for taking a large breaking wave... for survivability of the gear?

17

Foil SUP / Mast length

« on: September 13, 2017, 11:25:27 AM »

Hey guys, not sure if anyone knows the answer to this one, but what effect does mast length have on the handling of the kit?

I noticed that most surf foil kits have sub-20 inch lengths, but the Lift foil I'm using is 28" (71cm), which is about 6" longer than others.  I'm curious what the trade offs are in either direction... shorter vs longer.

My intuition tells me the longer mast is making balancing/turning harder, but the depth allows for keeping the foil in the water easier, as well as allowing pumping with longer boards easier... but I really have no idea.

18

Foil SUP / First ride!

« on: August 27, 2017, 03:28:33 PM »

Got the first ride in today!

On a river, we started out with a 1500ft winch, which worked ok, but keeping the speed steady enough for foiling was the hard part.  It was hard to judge how fast to pull the person.  My friend doesn't surf or SUP, so he was struggling just to get up on my 115L board at his 185lbs.  We did a bit of falling in, and very often onto the foil.  I have to say this new sport is quite a bit riskier when learning.  I'm going to guess you have easily better than 50% chance of falling on the foil on your first trys.  I have a properly bashed shin and my buddy has a beat up wrist, all from hitting the foil when falling.  On my 3rd winch pull I was able to maintain flight for about 200ft at a time.

My buddy then said we should try his little infatable with 18hp outboard motor.  With a wake skate the boat cannot get someone out of the water, not even close.  With the SUP and foil, no problem whatsover.  The speed was much easier to judge than the winch, as a throttle man.  Having just the right speed range was pretty critical.  We guessed that the optimum speed for us was about 15mph, just slightly above the planing speed of the boat.  Any faster and it got crazy scary fast!  We may have been able to pump the foil up at very slightly slower speeds, but it was not as stable or easy to maintain flight any slower.

After about another 20min behind the boat I had it down.  I could follow the boat through larger turns (50-75ft radius) and keep up on the foil.  I would still have a hard crash once in a while, but I was 95% there.  My buddy, who doesn't surf could get about 5-10sec rides on the foil before catastrophe.  Sounds short, but that's actually a pretty long time!  Eventually both of our rear leg thighs cramped up.  The pitch moment is so sensitive on the foil I found myself holding about 90%+ of my weight on the rear, and just using the front to control the pitch ever so gently!  Sometimes we'd start a porpoising motion with the board and it always led to getting tossed off the rig in a big way! lol, pretty funny to watch, and scary as hell as the rider.

Having the right front and rear foot position, both centered EXACTLY over the center line, and within a 1/2" range for the front and back position was pretty critical.  I think my rear foot position ended up being very close to the rear of the mast edge after I got a little more comfortable moving my foot back.  Your stance needs to be pretty huge to have good control at first.  Just forget about trying to change your foot position once up on the foil, bad idea!  Those feet MUST be in the right position when you pump up onto the foil.

After just an hour on the winch and especially the boat, I feel almost ready to try the waves.  Maybe one more boat session should solidify what I've learned.  The boat is key, almost a must.  I dno't think it would really be feasable to learn in the waves.  It would take 100x longer and be super frustrating, as well as much more dangerous.  In just a few boat sessions you can have the pitch thing down.  It's like a muscle memory thing, like learning the balance of a bicycles for the first time. 

I'm sure the surf will be very challenging.  It's so cool and fun being up on the foil though I can't wait!  The sensation is just totally different.  There is almost no feedback from the board/foil at all.  I was razer focused with my eyes on the water and board/foil just so I knew what I had to do with the pitch/etc.  So smooth, even through chop... although I found the prop wash from the boat to have pretty poor lift.  A couple of times I lined up on the wake of the boat (about 6-10" wave) and I could feel the line go slack!  Seems super efficient.  Letting go of the rope you could glide about 50-70ft with no power.

Stoked!!

In case you didn't read my other threads the board is a 2011 Naish Hokua 8'5 x 28", 115L.  The foil is a Lift 170 Surf/SUP foil.  The foil is very thin, maybe 1/4-1/2" thick at most.  I'm about 175lbs.  I put the foil on the board with a "Foilmount" stick-on mount.  It seems to be holding up to the abuse so far, and we definitely abused it today!!!   
 

19

Foil SUP / Foil position on board

« on: August 24, 2017, 01:03:18 PM »

I looked at all the topics and haven't seen this one discussed yet.

I'm about to stick on a Lift 170 SUP foil using a Foilmount stick-on pad to a 2011 Naish Hokua 8'5 x 28, 115L board.  I'm about 175lbs.  I'm in NorCal so will be riding a little faster waves.

I'm trying to decide where to stick on this pad, as you get just one shot at it.

Go Foil are really the only ones who have a suggestion chart for position, but of course their foils are deep tuttle.  If I measured everything right their measurement suggestion to measure from the tail to the back of the tuttle box would be about 3-1/6" shorter than to the center of the box/mast (A more universal measurement).  So if I add that to their suggestions I get about 24.7" to the center of the mast for my board.

Foilmount swiped the same chart from Go Foil for their suggestions, except they have you measure to the rear of the stick on pad, which doesn't make sense to me since that would put the foil about 2.3" farther forward than Go Foils actual recommendation (measuring to center of the mast for comparison).

I have identified some things to possibly consider.  When riding, most people seem to have their front foot just in front of the handle.  Not sure how consistent that is.  I also noticed on my board the rocker has a very defined steep drop off in the tail right about where the front fins (quad) start.  Due to the mount type I'm going to need to stay in front of this spot.  If I follow these two reasoning's the Go Foil converted suggestion seems to fit fine.  I'm basically sticking the back of the pad just in front of where the steeper tail rocker starts.  On my board that is 18.75" from the tail.  This is where I'd be sticking the rear of the Foilmount pad to have the mast centered in the mount at the suggested measurement.

Attached are a couple pics showing the position, with one having the mast as far back as it will go and one with it as far forward as it will go (about a 2" total travel choice).

BTW, this Lift foil is one sexy looking product, very clean and stiff.  Can't wait to get it wet!!!

So am I nuts or does this look like a reasonable mounting position?

20

Foil SUP / Which board should I use for my first setup?

« on: August 22, 2017, 07:37:25 PM »

Hi guys,

I picked up a Lift 170 Surf/SUP foil (new, not on their site yet) to give SUP surf foiling a first try.

My primary regular surfing SUP is a 2015 Naish Hokua 7'8 x 27.75 (96L).  I'm 175lbs.

Just sitting around, I have a 2011 Hokua 7'3 x 28.25 (100L), and a 2011 Hokua 8'5 x 28 (115L).  I want to use one of these two as the foil guinea pig and save the 7'8 for regular surfing.

My intuition tells me to go for the bigger 8'5 to start out.  I'm intending on trying this out on smaller slower waves, so want to be able to paddle in easier.  Others tell me the smaller/shorter the better, so then the 7'3 sounds like the right choice... but much harder to paddle into waves!

So which sounds like the better choice?  I'm going to use a FoilMount to stick this puppy on, in case that makes a difference.

Thanks for the advice!

21

Classifieds / 2013 Naish Hokua 8'3 (90L) Like new, ridden 3-4 times.

« on: August 22, 2017, 05:53:37 PM »

I forgot I had this sitting in my garage for the past few years!  Might use it for foiling, but there are better options for me if someone is looking for this type/size of board. 

It definitely didn't float me at 180lbs, and even 170lbs was iffy, but almost doable.  160lbs or less if you're really good should be fine.  I rode it just a few times back in 2013 with me @180lbs and have been catching my breath ever since!  Should be in brand new condition, pics on request. 

If you're looking for something like this give me a PM and we'll work out a deal.  It's in the SF Bay Area.

22

SUP Gear Reviews / Newly Acquired / On Order / 2013 Naish Hokua 8'3 GT

« on: September 30, 2013, 09:21:14 PM »

I was on the fence about this board for a long time.  First, I didn't even know if I could ride it at my weight, I hoped/assumed the volume listing of 90L was understated as I've experienced with past boards.  Second, I didn't know if it'd perform much different than my 8'5 or 7'3, but the pros sure make it look good!  I read enough to find out a few people had tried it and had caught a few waves on it at around my weight range.  That and the price coming down a bit gave me the green light.

Picked the board up today and headed straight to the water for a small test session.

2013 Hokua 8'3 GT board spec:  8'3 x 27-3/4" x 3.5" @ 90L, came with FCS M7 glass sides and 5.5" center.  Not sure on exact weight but feels a few lbs lighter than the 8'5

Past/current quiver:  PSH 9'3, JL Mano 9'0, Hokua 8'5, Hokua 8'4, Hokua 7'3

Rider: 5'10" (178 cm);  Stripped down weight and dehydrated after the session:  177lbs (80kg).  Prior to session ~183lbs (83kg).  Wetsuit+booties(wet) 8lbs (3.6kg).  All up riding weight about 180-190lbs (81.6-86kg).  I've been SUP'ing for a few years now.

Conditions:  Small hard beach break, not really any shoulders, knee to waist+ high, slight bump (mostly rebound from shore), side-off wind 12mph (10kts).  i.e.. not great at all.

Description:  Wow, when I first saw the box and felt how light and thin it was, I got worried right away.  I had planned on losing some weight to ride the board, at that point I knew I really would have to!  Compared to the Hokua 8'5 GT this one feels a ton thinner.  I can hold both boards up with one hand by the rail, but on the 8'3 I can do it with my finger tips and not touch my palm!  The 8'5 also has those rail ledges for easier balancing, and the 8'3 does not, so that just makes it seem all the much different in thickness.  The 8'3 nose and tail are much thinner than the 8'5, very noticeable.  The tail is also quite narrow.  The rocker on the 8'3 seems to be greater than the 8'5.

Riding impressions: 
-Balancing:  I had a bit of a chuckle as I threw the board into the water and hopped on.  I was thinking, god I hope I can ride this thing, I felt there was a serious possibility I might not be able to!  The 8'3 is definitely lower in volume than the 7'3.  My balance knee paddling wasn't much better than standing.  There is plenty of width, but I was sinking it pretty good.  The 8'5 in similar conditions might get my heels a tiny bit wet, and the 7'3 would be getting the balls of my ankles wet, but the 8'3 had half my shins covered at a stand still.  Only about 3" of nose was above the water at a stand still.  It was quite tricky to keep my heels and toes properly trimmed as to not sink the nose.  The rebound bump from shore was really causing me grief a few times, by making me sink the nose and then bail.  I found I was standing about 2-4" forward of the handle for best position while holding my spot.  Paddling was pretty darn slow!  Felt like I was dragging an anchor, esp when I went against the wind.  Got a good work out for sure!  When paddling at uh, speed, I guess you could call it, the tail remained about 4" under water, but the water line almost got to about my toes.
-Riding:  This board reminds me of the 7'3 when paddling for a wave and dropping in.  It doesn't paddle very fast at all, you kind of wait for the wave to push you then just rock the board down the lip to drop in.  It takes off late due to the low speed of paddling.  It feels good dropping in, takes off right away and wants to go.  Doesn't seem as "squirty" as the 7'3 with it's quads, but it does go.  After drop-in is out of the way the first turn was very responsive and light, it turns great!  The thin rails really make it dig, unlike the 7'3 which kind of flops/bobs around a bit on the really thick rail.  I managed to get a few good speedy drop-ins and was easily able to turn around to hit the lip straight on.  Wow, this is where it really shines!  My second or third bottom turn I really had enough speed to stick it hard and it whipped around very nice and stable!  The top rotation was super light and simple.  Plenty of nose rocker to avoid burying the nose on the steep drop.  The 7'3 does a great job of turning around and hitting the lip, but it's more of a sliding rotating thing to turn it around, whereas the 8'3 stuck the rail solidly in the water and held a good line all the way around to the top.  I cannot wait to get some good waves with this thing!!!!!!   

Moving forward:  I need to lose 10-15lbs, at least!  I think a more comfortable weight range might be about 165lbs for this board, so I'm going to get back to my ideal weight so I can paddle out in the bigger stuff.  Don't get me wrong, it's ride-able for me now, but just sinks too much to stay lined up and paddling for waves out on the bigger water.  I ride quads on the 8'5 and 7'3 and love them, I'll probably switch to quads on the 8'3 soon to see how it feels.  I'll update this thread when I get more rides on it.

Took a few pics next to the 8'5, and the shameless sexy hood shot 

P.S. either board fits fully inside the FRS/BRZ/GT86, but not at the same time unless maybe you removed the fins.

23

Gear Talk / Lightest infatable for backpacking?

« on: July 12, 2013, 10:31:08 AM »

I'm in the market for a lightweight inflable SUP for backpacking.  Something to take to remote lakes and ponds that require packing in.

I need it to be as light as possible since I'll be carry my usual camping gear too.  It must have about 120 or more Liters, other than that, anything goes.

The ULIs all seem to be heavier, but the iSUPs look light.  I"m sure there's others?  Any suggestions?

Thanks!

24

Gear Talk / Fin report, H3 quads on 8'5 Hokua

« on: February 10, 2013, 11:54:44 PM »

I picked up a set of H3 Large and the new H3 rear quads for the 8-5 Hokua.

I was riding the stock M7's as quad previously... which is four M7's all around, the rears being a 50/50 foil.

The H3 Large are a bit smaller than the stock M7's and have less sweep.  The front H3's have a pretty aggresive inside foil.

The rear H3's are about 15% smaller than the stock M7's and supposedly have an 80/20 foil.

The composite H3's are considerably stiffer than the soft glass M7's.

I wasn't sure what to think about going from a 50/50 rear to an 80/20 given the close proximity the rears have to the centerline.

I've only had two days in smaller beach break, but I'm liking the H3's a lot so far.

I was hoping to improve turn efficiency and add loosness to the top turns, hard to get both!  The H3's don't feel like they're made of rubber like the M7's, so the turns are solid and precise now.  The M7's gave this little kick when they unloaded after a turn (too late!), and felt slightly sluggish in really hard turns.  So far critical top pivot is great, I will know better when I get some good head high+ waves though.  The H3's definitely feel faster, but then again, the board is really quick feeling on it's own.  I'm thinking this might be the perfect match for the board.  Will report more once I get in some real surf.

25

Sessions / Few clips of some rides on the Holua 7'3

« on: January 13, 2012, 10:55:02 PM »

Evening session, waist to chest high.  I'm about 175lbs for reference.

26

Gear Talk / Vacation, board rentals in Florida?

« on: January 12, 2012, 09:33:20 AM »

I'm headed to FL this weekend.  I'm coming into Orlando and heading down to Bahia Honda.  Hoping to rent a couple boards for a week and hit some surf and flat water exploring on the way down to the Keys.

Any recommendations for board rental shops?  Surf locations?

Thanks!

27

Gear Talk / Flat water board speed, why is one board faster than another?

« on: August 19, 2011, 08:40:37 AM »

I've recently paddled two boards 10miles in flat water and got very counter intuitive (to me) results.

First, I paddled my Jimmy Lewis Blade 12-6 x 29 @ 230L and got about 4 to 4.5mph out of it.  This was in salt water and I was paddling very hard, nearly my maximum, and getting lots of cardio activity.

Second, I paddled an old Fanatic 295 windsurfboard 9-6 x 23 @ 125L.  Since it's so small I was not really expecting to get much out of it except a hell of a work out.  I averaged a solid 5mph out of it!  I was on fresh water this time and pushed pretty hard, but not as hard as with the Blade.  I even had to stop to shed weeds every mile or so!

Besides the water density difference I had a PowerEx paddle on the first trip and a Kialoa Hapa on the second.

I would think there would be no comparison between these two boards, in fact I was not really trying to see how fast I could go on the Fanatic, I just happened to keep track of the distance and time.  Is it the paddle or the width of the boards?  I'm really stumped!  The Fanatic did feel fast, so I'm wondering if it really is the width making the difference...?

28

SUP General / Lets see your best wipeout pics!

« on: June 04, 2011, 02:23:49 PM »

This should be fun... falling off, jumping off, wiped off, scraped off, lets see your best!   

I'll start...

1:  A Pacific Beach Slap to the face
2:  OUTSIDE!!!   Double over!  Abandon ship!!!   
3:  Retrieving bootie from the surf after #2...   
4:  SOB, not again!! 
5:  Bottoms up!

29

Gear Talk / Naish Hokua 7-3 impressions

« on: May 09, 2011, 07:06:22 PM »

I bought a 7-3 Hokua (100L) and surfed it in Kauai last week.  This board is a blast, the nice waves and warm water didn't hurt in making it a great experience    I'm coming from a JL Mano 9-0 (110L+) and Hokua 8-4 (100-105L?).  I usually weigh in the range of 165-175lbs @ 5'10", however during my visit I must have been enjoying myself a bit much and came up to 180lbs while I was there!    I've been paddleboarding about two years now(surf and flat), but skateboarded and windsurfed competitively with 20yrs experience each.  I feel I have decent balance on a board.    In calm/clean waters I could float ok on the board, not having to paddle too much to balance.  However, once the wind(15-25mph)/chop came up it was definitely pretty demanding, I fell in quite a few times just from getting used to the balance (or lack there of).  The yaw while paddling was a pretty big step up from my other two boards, it took a day or two to get used to that, still perfecting it, especially when paddling for a wave.  I lost quite a few at first to sliding sideways down the face from too much yaw/not knowing the technique yet.  It definitely paddles slower than the other two, feels like zero glide!  This board requires dropping in a little later than the others.  I found at slower speeds the tail was fairly loose, no sharp turns possible without slide, a little more so than the other two in this respect.  However, once it has dropped in on a steeper chest high or bigger wave the bottom turn sticks like glue and the board rockets out of the turn, very fun!!  It has/holds an amazing amount of speed once it's there.  It's agility in turning I'd decribe as litterally "on a dime", way more responsive than the others.  Even with the relatively low nose rocker I had no problem dropping in on very steep waves, just step back sooner, the shortness makes up for it.  Besides the speed and agility, one other quality I noticed was despite the wider tail (similar to the JL 9-0 width) I didn't ever find myself stepping around from side to side during cutbacks and such, very interesting!  This was the main thing holding me back from buying it sooner, well, that and not knowing if it would float me!  I'm really stoked on the board and can't wait to try in on my local waves!   

pics...

30

Gear Talk / To bring board or not... to Kauai

« on: April 19, 2011, 02:30:26 PM »

I'm heading to Kauai in a couple weeks.  I checked a bunch of rentals out but not real impressed with the selection!  I ride a JL Mano 9-0 and Naish Hokua 8-4 at home in Cali.  The smallest rental I could hunt down was a 7-7 Hypr fish(?), but looking at some of the specs and pics/vids I'm wondering if it would be better to bring one of my own boards?  Any info on these boards or how they ride?  Are there rentals with better boards?  Sorry to post here, but thought there would be more experience with the Hyprs here.

Mahalo!