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Messages - SUPeter

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Classifieds / Re: Duotone Slicks - 7m 5.5m 4.5m with carbon boom
« on: February 20, 2023, 06:02:08 AM »
I'll PM you

Classifieds / Re: Naish Matador LT 3M and 5m $350 per
« on: February 09, 2023, 10:20:27 AM »
PM sent.  I hope it goes through. 

The Shape Shack / Re: Ultralight Board Designs
« on: January 27, 2023, 09:33:38 AM »
Spraying on a clear sealer coat of Rustoleum spray paint(can) was my final option on my last DW board. Prior to that just the very runny microballoon coat during some drastically falling temps, all sanded off. No leaks so far.

Foil SUP / Re: Weight Matters
« on: January 25, 2023, 08:20:56 AM »
In some interview with Dave Kalama I remember him commenting on DW boards that were too light were more pitch sensitive, especially when dropping down the bigger steeper bumps.  In some ways, I find that to be true.  While playing with mast positions on my DW board, Having the mast far forward (less nose swing weight) the board becomes a bit more challenging to control, though easier to pump.  Having the mast more rearward, control becomes much easier.  I, myself, prefer to make boards as lightweight as possible. Again, compromise is always the sweet spot.

Prone Foiling, Surf foiling, Pump Foiling / Re: Swim Missiles
« on: January 17, 2023, 06:41:42 AM »
That board looks amazing.!   8 lbs!  holy shit, that's light!

The Shape Shack / Re: Ultralight Board Designs
« on: January 17, 2023, 06:27:52 AM »
I like beveled rails or, in my case, flaring beveled rails especially towards the rear of board. This shape ejects water sideways, away from board during the hopping/slapping phase of the paddle up.  Vertical sides may allow more water to eventually settle on deck when tail is submerged.  Beveled sides also create a smaller hull surface and less surface drag on very bottom of hull when touching down at speed.  I also agree that the less volume you have in the very rear, the easier it will be to sink it into the water just prior to hopping.
    As far as vertical "posts", I use hollow carbon tubes,(arrow shafts), and not carbon rods(much heavier).  Hollow tubes allow you to stuff resin impregnated carbon tow down inside leaving the flared out fibers to attach to boxes, hull laminate or deck laminate.

The Shape Shack / Re: Ultralight Board Designs
« on: January 12, 2023, 09:37:02 AM »
SUPeter, maybe you have looked but people have built kayaks and SUPs like this before. If you google foam strip kayak there are a few build threads.
 As far as the forms you can do it on Shape3D if you have it or know someone with the paid version. There is a hollow board function. Mine expired sorry.
 I used a free program called kayak foundry a long time ago. Pretty basic but allowed you to print out forms on A4 paper and glue them onto ply or whatever.
 Or maybe your computer skills are better than mine(not difficult) and you have it under control.

Thanks Tarqiuin, I have seen this function back when I was thinking of building a hollow wood board.  This "foam skin" design has a few idiosyncrasies which need accepting but I don't think it'll be any more difficult than similar builds. 

The Shape Shack / Re: Ultralight Board Designs
« on: January 11, 2023, 04:21:48 AM »
I've made several boards using XPS and have only ever found delamination issues when using paint over the foam. Thats not to say I am not suspicious of the bond between skin and foam.  All the talk of "outgassing" and "oils" from production keeps me somewhat cautious.  I have always coated the foam surface with epoxy and micro balloons.  Seems to work as far as I can tell, though I would appreciate a lighter weight filler. Maybe just spreading a fine layer of Gorilla Glue over a finely water misted surface (let harden and sand afterwards). Epoxy resin bonds well to PU foam and PU foam bonds well to anything.

On another note, I've got this massive sheet of green, high density XPS (unsure of exact density) from a recent project. I'm going to enlist the help of a 3D CAD modeler friend to help me loft the ribs of a DW board so that I can cut them out, lay them down on a foam stringer, and skin with high density XPS 3/4" sheets, just like the hollow wood board builders do (using Gorilla Glue to bond), only thicker than wood skin.  Of course, the box area will be almost solid as well as foot strap insert areas.  My theory is if going with far less foam, make sure its dense and strong.  Eliminates the need for 1/8" Divinicell and maybe even carbon cloth.  This should be a fun project.

Just noticed a question regarding consistency of Micro balloon paste- I like it like All-Natural Peanut butter, it flows if you tip the container, somewhat runny. I also make sure the board is good and warm (for a long time) when squeegeeing it on, and the bring the board out in the cold. This way the resin gets sucked into the pinholes.

The Shape Shack / Re: Ultralight Board Designs
« on: January 10, 2023, 01:28:53 PM »
I love this thread. When I'm out of the OR, I will read it letter for letter. 

Carbon fiber arrow shafts are ultralight , very strong carbon tubes designed to withstand compression quite well. They are also pretty strong when flexing and twisting forces are encountered. First, I use them to both attach the boxes to both hull and deck by coring them straight through board(alongside track boxes) and using carbon fiber tow to attach ends to hull, deck and boxes. I use about 3-4 pieces along each track box.  Second,  Using full length shafts(3-4) run along boxes and forward onto hull prevents that compression failure just in front of track boxes. I only do this on hull since carbon cloth alone does not provide enough compression resistance and creasing can develop from the high cantilevered force. Gotta go back to work. I hope this quick explanation helps.

BTW- Is anybody using Innegra?  I love it! It's a very light weight fiber with exceptional strength for ding resistance. 1, 4 oz layer of Innegra cloth covered by 1, 4 oz layer of glass is far more ding resistant than 1 layer of carbon cloth.

One more thing, hollowing out(chambering) structurally insignificant areas (nose, rails, tail) will also decrease weight. I cut out 1.5 lbs of foam from a DW board recently.

Foil SUP / Re: Another revelation about the Barricuda style Kalama board!
« on: December 22, 2022, 12:03:43 PM »
Just read back and was intrigued by the reference to kids wingfoiling with their Barricuda style boards. I've wingfoiled on my 8'x20" "Barricuda" and have to say it was remarkably easy to get on foil.  When I have my mast in the correct position, it is quite an enjoyable ride.  Got me to thinking it would make a great winging "adventure" board for those long, lonely downwinders. With little to no wind, you could still make headway to a destination.  Less need to worry about always having enough wind.   It pumped easily and the extra inertia in the nose stabilized the ride. Of course, it's not as stable while kneeling and getting my front foot in position but that's over once the back foot gets settled.  Took some time getting used to it as far as tacking (heel and toe side). Maybe it was me being too worried about catching the nose.  To be honest, there is not much more board out in front of me than there is on my 5' 2" wing board.

Foil SUP / Re: Another revelation about the Barricuda style Kalama board!
« on: December 22, 2022, 11:41:00 AM »

Agree Malo is super talented but I can really see the lag in his turns compared to his usual style on smaller boards, 7Kg for 112L is REALLY heavy... a lot of swing weight. They've gone overboard on the dimensions in their V1 effort, too narrow, too thick and way too heavy (the biggest surprise). Not cheap either at 1200 Euro ???

Is it that heavy?.
Do not think many production boards ,in any shape, get a lot lighter than 7kg at 112liters.
Hard to say because most of them chicken out from publishing weights.
I know that an 85l 5feet bodyboard shaped wingboard is pretty good at 5 to 5.5 kg.
So 7kg for 6.6 and 112l sounds reasonable to me.

I know that people are building ultralight custom DW boards but IMHO most of them will be waterlogged throwaways in a season.

1.0 density EPS + light glassing + long lenghts + paddles = a great  recipe for dings.
It only takes 1 little ding for the EPS to start sucking water.They are often really hard to see.

I am very tempted by this shapes, i think that something like a 6 x 16 x 85l could work pretty good for Upwind/Downwind wingfoiling in my unreliable wind conditions and be a fun pronefoiler in some spots.

Might perpetrate a DIY thingy along those lines next year as i will have more time off.

A good reason to use Innegra/glass. Two layers of each on rails.  Makes them very difficult to ding.

The Shape Shack / Re: Hollow foil board construction method
« on: December 22, 2022, 06:20:18 AM »
I agree with Surfcowboy. Foam is lightweight in comparison to laminate. I've been making "hollow' boards for some time now and am satisfied with the results. Any density foam will do as long as you use divinicell/carbon in the standing/kneeling areas.  Basically, I hotwire cut the board in 3 longitudinal sections( left,right and center), after 90% of shaping is done. Using a hot wire gouge to remove matching chambers of foam along entire length of board in each of these 3 sections.  Chambers are approximately 4-6" wide, leaving about 1" of foam on both hull and deck.  Columns between chambers are approx. 1.5" thick. All should be done being careful not to cut chambers into foil box area as well as leaving a bit more deck thickness in standing area, say 2".  After chambers are completed, I use a hot steel rod to open communications between adjacent chambers. There is only one communication hole between chambers on left and right sides, at the tail. In essence, the foam along the stringer line is solid except for that one hole at tail. Hope that makes sense. I then insert 2 Gortex vents in the very nose, a left and a right, into the forwardmost chambers. When completed, I can then blow air into the left vent which travels down the complete left side of board to tail, crosses over to right side of board, and travels all the way up the right side of board to second vent in nose. This allows me to dry the board out completely should I get a leak. Total weight savings when removed foam blocks are measured, 1.5 lbs.(8' x 20" Barricuda style downwind board). When using a hot wire gouge or hot steel rod to make cuts or hole, you are simultaneously sealing those portions of foam by melting its surface. should water ever enter the chambers, it is far less likely to soak into the foam.  Skinned with 1 layer of 4 oz Innegra, 1 layer of 4 oz fiberglass. Vacuum Bagged. Carbon cloth under where necessary (standing area, foil boxes forward). This technique has reduced the nose/swing weight quite effectively. Is it a stupid amount of extra work for 1.5 lbs.? Maybe, but not for me.

Prone Foiling, Surf foiling, Pump Foiling / Re: Swim Missiles
« on: December 05, 2022, 07:18:17 AM »
I made another post because I have a different application, and think that longer fuselages could help the rest of the SUP foil world, but Sam also shared this Dead-Sexy Mutant.

The idea was to raise the tail, to breach before the main wing, and keep flying rather than face-planting at high speeds - which apparently is horrible on a boogie foil rig.

Sam said this T-Tail configuration worked well on small waves but NOT on bigger waves (I assume bigger means 6 foot faces or more).

My first ever iteration of a surfing foil 95 years ago or so) used a raised tail like Sam's.  It was about 5" higher than the fuse.  It actually worked for preventing breaches if your rate of climb was gradual(slow).  If quickly rising, no help at all.

Foil SUP / Re: Another revelation about the Barricuda style Kalama board!
« on: December 05, 2022, 07:06:53 AM »
I can't help but notice the single footstrap. I thought you were nearly religious about the benefits of a rear strap.

My religion is stronger than ever. USE STRAPS.

I was trying no back strap because the local young downwind 'grom' (age 34) has been hounding me about going strapless for downwinding.

But we were out during a Mavericks day last week.  We run to a protected spot and catch 7 - 12 foot waves at the local foil park.  I had the back strap on, but that still wasn't enough and I took off my booties because me feet, with the booties, were still not connected enough on the board. 

Here was an example of where this board WAS able to catch the waves.  I am now of the belief that these boards GLIDE to catch waves 20% better.  BUT they are 10% to 30% harder to stand on meaning that you wobble and roll. Forget about getting hit by whitewater and taking off.  For big waves I have been switching back to the "Barn Door" philosophy.  Boards > 7' long and 30" wide.

Straps definately help me when  I am in the surf zone as my feet always tend to stay in the same place during take-off, ride, and pump back out.  For downwinding, all that changes as I find myself gradually moving my feet closer together into a more restful position.  Downwinding, being so energy consumptive, one needs to conserve every last bit, especially at my age.

I assume you mean this stuff:

Yes, that's the stuff!  I find sealing with epoxy is just sealing the surface only.  This 'Wood Hardener" penetrates deeply and makes the wood not only stronger but far less likely to take on water and rot.

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