Messages

1

The Shape Shack / Re: Shaped a new board for bigger waves

« on: November 19, 2021, 09:39:25 AM »

Stew - Thanks glad you got inspired!  The orange board is a 8'0 x 27 - 95 Liter Brusurf.  I blew out the fin boxes day 1 so its a repair.
TallDude - Thank you! 

2

The Shape Shack / Re: Thruster vs Quad test on new board

« on: July 17, 2021, 10:43:47 AM »

Resurrecting this thread to update some new findings after shaping a new board.

I have finally got a quad setup I enjoy (white board) and I did a comparison to a board I don't like (orange board).

My Orange board slides out on me in hard bottom and top turns.  The white board holds nicely on bottom/top turns, but I can still blow the fins out in a snap.  I enjoy the feel of thruster and this feels closer to that maybe at touch more playful.  It's enjoyable for my tastes but probably won't work well for someone who doesn't like to put a lot of power into their turns.

Here are 2 pics comparing the different dimensions of each board.  I think by reducing the 12" tail width from 18.25" to 16" that puts my rear quads closer together giving it more grip.  I also set the fin boxes back 1" giving it more grip as well.  This has solved all of my quad sliding issues and I couldn't be happier.  Hopefully someone can use this if they are having similar troubles.

Fin box placement
White board
Front 15.5
Rear 7.5
Middle 3.5
Run center fin at 7” loose
6” stiff
12” tail width 16”

Orange board
Front 17.5
Rear 8.5
Middle 7
Run center fin at 9” loose
8” stiff
12 “ tail width 18.25”

3

The Shape Shack / Re: Shaped a new board for bigger waves

« on: July 17, 2021, 10:30:35 AM »

@SupTheCreek.  I'm using that screengrab now to send to all my friends.  Didn't realize I got it on rail that hard!  Thanks.

I took it out today for another session.  Waves about the same maybe a touch smaller.  Put quads in the board and I liked them!  My biggest gripe about quads has been their lack of hold, I would also feel uneasy on a hard bottom turn.  I would feel like I could only push so hard or I would spin out.  On this board they grip like a dream, I can blow out the fins on a snap if I want, but I don't even need to think about nursing them on a hard turn.

Having said that I started to wonder why.  I think it's a combination of things but here is my favorite board vs my newly shaped board.  On my favorite board I cannot use quads I blow out the fins every time.  This isn't a problem on my new board I think due to 2 reasons.  1 the tail is narrower putting the rear quads closer together giving the fins more hold like my thruster setup.  2. I put the rear fin boxes 1" further back adding addition grip and hold.  Here are 2 pics with the dimension.  Orange board is the one that slids, white is the new one that grips.

Fin box placement
White board
Front 15.5
Rear 7.5
Middle 3.5
Run center fin at 7” loose
6” stiff
12” tail width 16”

Orange board
Front 17.5
Rear 8.5
Middle 7
Run center fin at 9” loose
8” stiff
12 “ tail width 18.25”

4

The Shape Shack / Re: Shaped a new board for bigger waves

« on: July 16, 2021, 07:43:55 PM »

@Surfcowboy.  I'm on the East Coast of Florida.  Wish I had Hawaii waves, maybe someday.  I shaped it for chest high + waves.  I waited to shape a few others since I thought I wouldn't be using this board as much.  Turns out it's not too bad in knee-waist high waves either.

@SupTheCreek.  Yeah I had it on my mind for a while and just went for it.  Looking forward to you seeing it in person and telling me your thoughts!  Hope you are getting some good waves up there!

I finally got a chance to get my GoPro mounted on it and took it out.  Today's waves were knee to waist high, but for a little while the wave had some curve and push to it.  Made it fun.  I really enjoy how the rocker lets me pull up and sit right in the pocket and kindof stall the board out.  It can also speed up when you work it and I can throw some spray in a turn.  Nothing too serious today if I went at it too hard I would just fall off the wave.  Can't wait to get it into some bigger stuff.

5

The Shape Shack / Shaped a new board for bigger waves

« on: July 15, 2021, 07:21:41 PM »

I wanted to build a board for bigger steeper waves.  Most of my boards have relatively low rockers and I wanted to try to build something different.  So when I went after this board I was thinking steeper hollower waves more rocker.  So the experiment began.

I started in Shape 3D (I've attached the Shape 3DX file at the bottom of this post) and wanted to stay in my safe zone for liters so I could ride this board in all conditions.  That meant I wanted to stay between 90-95 liters.  For some reason I really like boards 8’ long so I put that in as a parameter and 27” wide seems to work good as well.  That gave me a basic outline of what I wanted.  I wanted pulled in tail and nose for performance.  Finally I wanted a lot of rocker.  I researched other boards posted on here, one by SUPTheCreek with 7+” of nose rocker and 4+” of tail rocker.  If I hadn’t seen that board I would’ve thought that was way too much.  I settled on 6.7” of nose rocker and 4.2” of tail rocker.

This was my first board I truly started from scratch on.  Normally I would ask my local shaper for a foam block to start with, but he had gotten COVID and was way behind on boards and didn’t have time for me.  So this time I headed off to Home Depot to get some EPS foam sheets.  I could only find EPS in 2” thick 4x8 sheets.  So I knew I had to glue them together, and based on my board shape I would need 3 of the 2” sheets stacked ontop of each other and on the last few inches of the nose another sheet to make up for that 6.7”.  I also purchased a 1/8” sheet of plywood for the stringer.

First step was to cut the stringer out.  I printed out my Shape 3D board specs and cut 3 identical stringers out of the 1/8” plywood.  Then I cut up the 4x8 foam boards into 16” wide strips.  I lined those up and put a thin layer of epoxy between each sheet and stacked them 3 ontop of each other.  Then I ratchet strapped them together and let them dry.  Once dry I glued the stringer onto the ends and middle of the foam blocks and strapped them together.  Then I had my blank. 

I took a hotwire cutter and ran it down the board to get the profile.  Using the stringers on the end and in the middle kept my hotwire cutter on track.  Things were shaping up, I had my rocker.  Next up I cut out the template of the board.  I was getting excited I could start shaping the bottom contours.  I went with the tried and true concave in the middle, going to a double concave and finishing with a vee at the fins.  All of this I kept to 1/8” very subtle.

Rail bands took me a bit of searching.  In my last board I made knifey rails and I didn’t really love them.  They held well but they made recovering form a hard turn very difficult.  I like a fuller rail in the middle of the board.  I went on green light surf supply and they have rail templates.  This time I went with boxy and made them even a touch more boxy than what their template called for.  Since their template was for surfboards 2-3” thick and this was 4.1” thick SUP.  I compared the rails to my other boards I liked and they lined up pretty close.
For the fins I went with a more aggressive approach.  I did ¼” toe in on the front fins and 1/8” toe in on the rear fins.  For cant I put 9 degrees on the front and 5 degree on the rears.  It’s got a pretty aggressive look to it.  I put a 10” center box in for lots of adjustment as well.  I like thruster but want to try out different quads so I made sure to put those rear quad boxes back a bit further for extra grip.  Front fins I put at 15.5” off the tail.  Rears I put at 8.5” off the tail.  The center fin box I put at 4.5” off the tail with plenty of room for adjustment.

For Glass schedule, on the bottom I put on a layer of 8oz with a layer of 4oz ontop.  For the top I put a 8oz deck patch, 8oz and 4oz top layer. 

My hope for this board is that with all that rocker and fin toe it’s going to be able to stay in the pocket on bigger waves.  I’ve had trouble with my boards generating too much speed or being hard to turn once they get going too fast.  Paddle boards have a lot more glide then surfboards so I’m hoping that I can get away with all of this drag and still have a board that performs.  I don’t expect this board to be good on mushy summer waves this was designed to carve on chest+ waves.

I took the board out for it’s first run in small sized surf maybe knee to waist (I know I couldn't help myself).  As expected it didn’t fly down the line but I was able to pump it for speed and keep up with most waves.  I really enjoyed the ability to step on the tail and put the brakes on.  I was able to cozy right up in the pocket on a few waves by doing this.  Then when the wave picked speed up I could weight my front foot and off I went.  Honestly I thought I was going to experience a lot more drag and speed issues from this board.  I’ve shied away from anything this extreme expecting it to be a dog, but the board does good.  Turns are a lot easier I think the combination of fin cant/toe and tail vee all work together to make this board super easy to whip around.  I hope to get some video of it soon.

Let me know your thoughts.  Everything I said above is basically a guess I don’t really know if I just lucked out, or maybe this shape isn’t as extreme as I was thinking?

6

The Shape Shack / Re: 7-9 Asymetrical SUP

« on: February 17, 2021, 04:50:35 PM »

That looks amazing!  I would love to try an asym one day.  Can you go into the theory behind it a bit?  I take it you have the the sharper rail on your toe side and the rounder one on your heel side?  The fin placement is interesting too, how do you take that into consideration?  I would love to know how the rail to rail transition looks if you have any pics or videos of it on a wave.  Awesome board!

7

The Shape Shack / Re: Thruster vs Quad test on new board

« on: February 10, 2021, 04:44:19 PM »

I got out on another session with the thruster.  Moved the center fin forward another half an inch.  Seemed to loosen it up a little bit more which I liked.  Trying to find that happy place.

Here is the session.  I didn't get to switch over to quad, but we're supposed to have some swell for a while so I'll get a chance to dedicate a session to that.

8

The Shape Shack / Re: Thruster vs Quad test on new board

« on: February 09, 2021, 12:24:52 PM »

sflinux - thats a very scientific approach to fins, it I like it.  That could explain my issues with my smaller quads sliding out in hard turns or steep waves.  I will make sure to keep my eye on the surface area from now on.  I usually just look at the fin and classify it as big/medium/small (not very technical at all haha!).

9

The Shape Shack / Re: Thruster vs Quad test on new board

« on: February 08, 2021, 04:47:15 PM »

Caribsurf - Thanks I have been waiting a while to do this just never found the time.  I am like you a lot of my boards like my L41 SimSup didn't offer a 5 fin setup and probably wouldn't have worked well with it.  My Lokahi custom pro is only thruster.  So once I had this board with the 5 fin setup I had to do it.  I'm not sure I'd recommend it, but I have installed center fin boxes on a board for my friend and he liked it better.  So that's always an option.

surlygringo - Agreed the size/shape of the fins have a lot to play.  I'm not quite sure what this board was mean to be setup with, I guess thrusters?  I just wanted to see with all other factors the same what did changing the fins actually do.  All factors the same and only the fins the swapped what did it change.  Controlling as many variables as possible.  To some it's obvious but I was surprised at the results.

10

The Shape Shack / Re: Thruster vs Quad test on new board

« on: February 08, 2021, 12:13:15 PM »

Thank you!  Twin fins would be fun to test.  Unfortunately most of my fins are FCS so I'll have to keep an eye out for futures twin setups.

Fin setups have always been a mystery to me.  No one can ever give a definitive answer because it always depends on your local waves and how they break your skill level and of course the board you are riding.  That's what drove me to do this test and hopefully more.  To get some understanding of what changes when you switch fins around on the same day.

11

The Shape Shack / Thruster vs Quad test on new board

« on: February 07, 2021, 06:31:54 PM »

I just bought another board and it came with a 5 fin setup.  I've been wanting to do a thruster vs quad test on the same day, same conditions, same board for a while.
Today was the day.  I got the GoPro ready and brought my fins down to the beach.  Tried to show the differences.  Day was light offshore winds with knee high sets.  Had a blast on both setups and enjoyed both of their qualities.  Here is the video that I made.


Here is a link with pictures to both of the setups and measurements on the fins (quads & thruster) future fin boxes.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/dJ57hALBxqpA4LNJ9

Here are some of the notes I wrote down after the session.

A bit about my surfing style.  I am heavy back foot, prefer surfing top to bottom and really hitting the lip.  I mostly surf thruster setup on all my boards I have struggled in the past with quads.  I have ridden quads on my wide tail boards (L41 SimSup) but don't seem to enjoy them on my other boards.

Board specs.  8' x 28.25" x 3.5" - 95 Liter SurfTech Superfly
I had to run larger than normal thruster and quad fins to prevent the tail from slipping.  Possibly due to wide tail 18.25" wide at 12" up from the tail?

My biggest gripe about quads going into this is the lack of standardization.  It seems every board I own had a different spot on the tail for quads.  Most being right on the edges of the rail.  This board has the rear fins closer to the center like a Mckee setup I've heard so much about.  I hope this becomes more of a standard since I enjoyed the quads in this board, but quads in my other boards just did not work for me.  Thrusters seem to all follow the same template making them my go to for confidence and consistency.


Quads
Wider board is gonna like quads more.  You get more fin area where you need it.  Maybe 18” and wider at 12” off the tail needs quads?
It seems like I need to surf bigger quads than thrusters.  Bigger fronts and big rears which is more total fin area compared to thruster.
McKee fin setup with rear fins closer to the center of the board works much better for me rather than having them on the rails which makes them too loose for me.

Pros
Faster down the line
On a cutback you can push with your rear leg, blow the fins out and throw some spray.
Keep speed in a hard turn.   

Cons
I’ve had issues sliding out on hard bottom turns on bigger waves.  Bigger fins and McKee setup could help?
Has a tendency to lock up on me when I’m not on rail (when all 4 fins are engaged tracking straight)
Can’t pump the board for speed.

Thrusters
I mostly surf thrusters.  Standard g5 template has worked for me on most boards.  This board need a bit bigger fin setup.  I move the center fin up about an 1” for smaller days.  Makes turning in a small pocket easier.

Pros
Can pump the board.  Love compressing and decompressing to build speed
Very accurate and quick turns.  Top to bottom surfing.
Easy to put the board on rail and hit the lip.  Never get that locked up feeling
No slipping out on hard turns
Can confidently commit to your turns in bigger days

Cons
Can’t blow out the fins nearly as easy (fun on small days)
Lose significant speed in turns.  Hurts you on small waves.
Feels stiff if you’ve been surfing quads (I felt this right away when I switched)
Doesn’t work as well on wide tail boards

Overall the quads felt like they had more speed and flow on the smaller knee high waves.  The turns were smoother and carried the speed back into the pocket.  With the thruster I could really whip the board around, at the cost of speed.  Quads let me play around more and throw some spray.  I look forward to doing this test again on waist-chest high waves to see the difference.

I can see a benefit to quads on days where the waves are fatter and more crumbly where you have more time to do turns with more flow and arc.  And also on days where the waves are hollow and barrelling where you just want that speed and there is no time to pump the board.  Just drop in and go.  For barrelling waves I've also noticed with thrusters it's harder to hold into the face of wave when it starts to get really steep.  Having 2 big fins engaged will probably help with that.  I play on testing this in the future and get out of my comfort zone.

12

General Discussion / Re: Common SUP Board Repairs

« on: January 28, 2021, 04:22:37 PM »

sflinux - thanks for that reply.  very detailed, hit a bunch of areas I missed!

I used Rustoleum Painters Touch and it came out looking like a new board.  Got my recommendation!

13

General Discussion / Common SUP Board Repairs

« on: January 26, 2021, 04:18:30 PM »

Thought I'd just share some common problems I've found with both used boards and having damage to my daily riding boards.  These tips might be helpful if you go to check out a used board or even a new one.

1.  Cracks around the handle.  This by far is my most common issue with boards.  Almost every board I've owned or had an issue that started with the glass splitting or separating around the handle.  From here once water gets in things progress.  If you are unlucky enough to have a board with any type of wood in the deck construction which is common, the water will soak through the whole board.  Best case delamination around the handle.
2.  Delamination.  This is a very common issue.  I always check by boards by pushing down in areas like the deck where I stand, around the vent plugs, fin boxes etc.  Delamination will only get worse so early detection is key.
2.  Fin boxes.  Cheap boards just rout a hole and pop in the fin box with some epoxy.  With any force these will crack and start letting water in. 
3.  Vent plug / Leash plug.  Same as above just epoxy holding they develop cracks or splits and start to let water in.
4.  Rail damage.  This is usually more obvious but I've seen almost undetectable splits that can leak if you don't really look close
5.  Nose/Tail damage.  As above this is also obvious but these can develop pinhole leaks as well.

Fix repair.
I fix any plastic to fiberglass repair the same.  No matter if its the handle/fin box/vent plug or leash plug.  I start by first drilling holes all around where the plastic meets the fiberglass about 1" apart.  Letting all the water drain prior to any glassing.  I'll then give it a good sanding with between 80 - 120 grit sandpaper to ensure good adhesion.  Then I'll take cabosil or any type of thickened resin and inject them with a syringe into each hole waiting for the resin to squirt out of the hole next to it.  Keep working around the board.  Then I'll put masking tape over the holes and flip the board over.  If you don't do this the resin keeps draining down into the board and you'll have to repeat this step.  Then for the last step I'll put masking tape over the plug and trim it as close as I can without letting resin run down into it.  Then I put 3 layers of glass matte, one just covering the plastic part and each additional one going 1-2" wider than the previous.

For any rail or other board damage I determine how best to get the water out.  Drill holes or just lean it in a position so it will drain.  Then sand the area down to make sure there is good adhesion.  Then lay 1-3 layers of fiberglass matte over the repair.  The first layer I make about 1" wider than the damage.  And each additional layer 1-2" wider than the last.

Delamination repair starts with determining the cause.  Did water get in, was it heat related?  Perhaps the vent plug failed?  From there I will mark with a marker the area that has delaminated.  I will take a brand new sharp sheet rock blade and cut out the delaminated part and remove the fiberglass.  It's important to cut the area well because pulling up on the fiberglass could delaminate more area.  Give it a good sanding and feather the fiberglass edges back 3-4".  From there make sure everything is dry and put 1-3 layers of fiberglass matte.  The first should just match the patch you cut out.  Then next 2 should overlap 1-2" from the previous layer.

Just thought it would be helpful for someone taking a look at buying a new board so they get a better understanding of things to look for an the work involved in fixing it.

My newest board I bought for $200 so I was fine with some repairs.  Turns out the handle delaminated and water soaked a lot of the deck area because they used a wood in the construction.

14

The Shape Shack / Re: Board Thickness Effect

« on: January 26, 2021, 06:43:26 AM »

Thanks for all the info.  It makes sense it's all connected I was just stuck on one aspect of the board which really needs to be considered as a whole against the rest of the board.

This leads to new questions hope you guys don't mind.  When you talk about board curve like a L41 with not much curve vs a Naish Hokua with lots of curve.  What does that curve really do? The Naish will do better in a hollow barrelling wave where you need to match that curve, vs a L41 will do better in a flatter wave?  Is that how it works.

@Biggreen - I've heard a ton about 12" measurements.  More so from the tail but I guess the nose also makes sense.  What are the rules of thumb.  I've always heard 12" up from the tail 18"+ won't perform in turns and 18" - will perform.  I've never heard any rules of thumb about 12" back from the nose though.

@sflinux - I will post a report of the board comparison.  It makes sense that you need to consider all aspects of the board rather than focus on one.  I have a board that has very thick rails and others that have thinned out rails and I don't really notice much, but I guess I need to consider all other factors (rocker, outline, etc).

15

The Shape Shack / Re: Board Thickness Effect

« on: January 22, 2021, 06:36:21 AM »

I ended up buying a board that is a 8'0 x 28.25 - 95 Liter that is 3.5" thick by SurfTech.  I currently own a 8'0 x 27 - 95 liter that is 4.25" thick by Brusurf.  It will be interesting to compare them once we have swell.

I guess another example of what I'm trying to understand is a wave ski is very very thick.  Granted you are sitting down guys can pull off some pretty amazing maneuvers and these things are 8"+ thick.  Whats the limit for a SUP.  What if you went 6+" thick would it just be incredibly corky?

WaveSki Pictures
https://storage.googleapis.com/wp-stateless-ww-media/2017/06/waveski-plastic-waveski-pro-3.jpg
https://www.standupzone.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=18257.0;attach=26934