Messages

1

Wingsurfing, Windfoiling, Wingfoiling, Wing SUP / Re: List of pitch neutral hand wings

« on: July 05, 2022, 09:28:22 AM »

I agree, just trying to avoid the all too common, "Wait, which wing are you talking about?"

2

Wingsurfing, Windfoiling, Wingfoiling, Wing SUP / Re: List of pitch neutral hand wings

« on: July 04, 2022, 07:22:07 PM »

Let's get the definitions straight.  Someone correct me if I am wrong, but I was told that pitch negative means the wing wants to dive, down-force, leading edge hit you in the head during a tack....

Pitch positive means it wants to lift when luffing.

So VB_foil, with these definitions, I think the OR is pitch negative.  I tried the full Aluula ones on the beach 3 different times and they definitely were pitch negative (down-force on my hand when holding the leading edge handle).

3

Wingsurfing, Windfoiling, Wingfoiling, Wing SUP / List of pitch neutral hand wings

« on: July 04, 2022, 12:46:33 PM »

A former hang glider designer (now a pretty skilled winger) told me that a wing is pitch neutral when it doesn't lift up or down while holding it by the leading edge handle in wind appropriate to the size of the wing.  A pitch neutral wing shouldn't push down or whack you in the head when tacking and holding it by just the front handle. And related somewhat:  A pitch neutral wing shouldn't backwind when really powered or when pointing really high into the wind. 

What if you have no wind to test?  Grab it by the front handle in zero wind and throw it like a paper airplane.  Ideally, it will land softly.  It's OK if it noses in slightly.  It's not good if it does a back loop or immediately noses in hard.

For me, after getting used to a wing that is pitch neutral and then trying a couple that are pitch negative, pitch negative is super annoying.  I guess you could get used to pitch negative, but why?

Anyway, the list:

Ensis first generation
Duotone Unit 2022
Cabrinha Mantis V2

4

Wingsurfing, Windfoiling, Wingfoiling, Wing SUP / Re: Foot pressure when foiling.

« on: July 04, 2022, 11:39:38 AM »

Badger, as a recent beginner I think part of the learning process is learning to be comfortable with what at first feels unstable rather than using gear that takes instability out of the system.  I am also on Axis gear and I benefited hugely from downsizing.  I started on HPS 980 / 420 / and short fuse.  At my light weight it seemed like I would get locked into a trajectory at anything faster than about 13mph (a guess).  Speed induced inertia.  Whether going up until I breached, going down until I touched or pearled, or whether locked into a slow turn, I just didn't have the body weight to make adjustments once the in-motion inertia kicked in.  There is such a thing as too stable, even for beginners.  At slower than 13, I could control it much better, but who wants to go slow all the time?

I felt instantly comfortable on the 830 / P350 / Ultrashort at all speeds except max (Thanks to Lenny at Live2kite for the recommendation).  When I'm fully powered with a deep draft wing and I bear off and sheet in for max speed...then I'm at the limit and I have to concentrate.  But even then if I pay attention I won't wipe out.

So to apply my situation to how Dwight explained it, on the 980 I only had neutral (balanced leg) pressure throughout the bottom 50% of the speed range and I never really felt entirely balanced.  On the 830 / P350 / Ultrashort I feel like I have neutral pressure through 90+ % of the speed range.

5

Wingsurfing, Windfoiling, Wingfoiling, Wing SUP / Re: FoilDrive and light wind winging

« on: June 16, 2022, 06:39:37 PM »

I thought e mountainbikes looked kind of boring...until I tried one.  Super fun, and a whole different experience.  Made me feel like Lance Armstrong when he was taking performance enhancing drugs, but without all the repercussions (except the cost, yikes).  Uphill flow became a thing.  It's not a perfect analogy to the FoilDrive though since e mountainbikes provide propulsion every time you pedal, whereas the FoilDrive turns off the second you are flying.  The lighter weight, lower power e mountainbikes might be a slightly better analogy, only two out there right now are the Specialized Levo SL, and the Orbea Rise.

Seems like FoilDrive would be great for downwind SUP days when there is not much wind, hard or impossible to foil up with just paddle, but good swell.

I've never tried it, but I have heard that SUPfoil downwinding is super hard to learn, and not just the getting up part...

6

Wingsurfing, Windfoiling, Wingfoiling, Wing SUP / Re: Wing Board Tail Rocker - Thoughts

« on: June 16, 2022, 06:10:40 PM »

PonoBill, I hate to trouble you, but since this is the "tail rocker" thread, and since you already have your straight edge out, could you please let us know how much the E3 has and which model you are looking at?  I don't know if this is the most useful way, but I like to put the straight edge flush with the tracks down the center-line and then measure how much tail kick (in this case, to the pointy release edge,) and how much at the board's midpoint (at the center-line).

Thanks!

7

Wingsurfing, Windfoiling, Wingfoiling, Wing SUP / Re: Wing Board Tail Rocker - Thoughts

« on: June 10, 2022, 10:01:03 AM »

Do any of the E3 sizes have tail rocker along the center line?

I agree with Slyde that, "I still think a wing board needs some tail rocker for better flight characteristics..."

8

Wingsurfing, Windfoiling, Wingfoiling, Wing SUP / Re: Wing Board Tail Rocker - Thoughts

« on: June 06, 2022, 07:32:39 PM »

Things are changing so fast... We have all joked, "That's so 2021" about one thing or another in this crazy fringe sport.  But now that I purchased a 2022 Axis Froth (and by the way I think it's awesome) about a month ago and it's already outdated I guess I have to start saying my new beautiful board is so 2022?  The year is not even half over yet!  Will I be considered a Luddite if I am still using my 2022 gear later this year?

9

Wingsurfing, Windfoiling, Wingfoiling, Wing SUP / Re: Wing Board Tail Rocker - Thoughts

« on: June 03, 2022, 11:04:03 AM »

The 2022 Axis Froth 45L (4'4" X 23") has tail rocker.  The tracks are way back compared to most boards: 3" from the tail of the board.  When I place a straight edge on the tracks, it has about 5mm of tail kick and 1.5cm of tail rocker measured at the mid point of the board.  I do prefer the way it rides compared to a board with zero tail rocker (This is on Axis carbon 86cm mast and HPS 830).  The ride angle is more comfortable (it's not nose down).  Easier to recover from touchdowns.  I can't say that it starts as easy as a same sized zero tail rocker board because I don't have one to compare to.  But compared to a 71L zero tail rocker board that has a tail bevel, the little Froth foils up easier....not easier when it's under water obviously, but easier once on the surface.

10

Wingsurfing, Windfoiling, Wingfoiling, Wing SUP / Re: Axis HPS 830 review

« on: May 09, 2022, 08:22:37 PM »

Daswasup, you know dat IS wasup!

I have about 10 days on my new 830.  Love it!  I am 140lbs (63.5kg), 86cm carbon mast, ultrashort fuse, and 350 tail wing.  I have about 70 sessions total winging so consider myself still pretty new.  Anyway, the 830 in my limited experience does everything well and is easy to ride.  Works well under or over powered.  Works well in turbulent water.  Seems to pump well, though I wouldn't know for sure. It even gets up in light wind at my weight.  Turns fast enough, but not twitchy.  Fast enough for my current skill.  Perfect for me.  I am going to stick with it for quite a while given that I am improving at such a slow pace.  Nevertheless, I can see myself wanting something a bit faster at some point.  A couple of times recently in bigger swells, all I could do was go straight (which was all I wanted to do since my adrenalin was already maxxed out!).  Once I get good enough to relax and be in control in bigger swells,  I would like to be able to turn more on the face, which would require more speed.  Or yet even more speed in order to glide out in front of a wave, bottom turn and head straight back at it, top turn, and repeat.  Maybe the 830 is as good as it gets, and I wouldn't be surprised if that's the case.  But if any of you around my weight have any thoughts on how small I could go to gain glide and speed without compromising too much... your thoughts would be appreciated.  799?

999 is my light wind wing.  I like it for the amazing glide and for feeling the power of little weak waves / bumps.  Very fun in flat water or small waves with smooth water in between.  I agree with Daswasup that the 999 does not like turbulent water.  I also don't like using it powered up.  Just barely enough wind power to get up and its magic.

I learned on the 980 / short / 420. Although stable and easy to get up, it felt slow in both speed and turning.  I know some people love the 980 (heavier folks), but at my light weight, it just had no excitement for me.

11

Wingsurfing, Windfoiling, Wingfoiling, Wing SUP / Re: New Slingshot wingboard and boomed wing

« on: February 13, 2022, 03:18:05 PM »

Dwight, are you still building boards?  I noticed your website is down.  If not, the new Axis boards also look good.

12

Wingsurfing, Windfoiling, Wingfoiling, Wing SUP / Re: The ART 999 Thread

« on: December 18, 2021, 09:20:10 AM »

In thinking about this further, getting a board with some tail rocker to try and solve my problem (which isn't really a problem, rather just a comfort preference), is a bad idea.  Tail rocker would increase surface drag and make lift off a lot harder.  Plus the angle of attack on the hydrofoil would be changed and would push the nose down while on the surface, also creating more drag.  My guess is that ideally you want lift to be parallel to the surface of the water to aid surface speed, especially for a high aspect foil like the 999.  Shimming the mast base would do the same thing (down force while on the surface) so I think this is not a great idea also.

So it seems like Dwight's idea of shimming the tail wing is the best way for me to go, especially if I can do so without creating a situation where lift increases with increased speed.  One of the great things about the 999 is that I don't have to shift my weight forward to counteract lift as speed increases.  Wouldn't want to mess that up.  A little bit of tail shim could also have the benefit of increasing turning speed (carved turns)?

Another idea would be to get a board with enough nose rocker so that my front foot would be elevated an inch or two above parallel, but of course with flat rocker all the way out the back.  Some kite hydrofoil boards have this.  This would add surface drag compared to flat between the feet, but would it be noticeable at, say, above 5 mph on the surface?

13

Wingsurfing, Windfoiling, Wingfoiling, Wing SUP / Re: The ART 999 Thread

« on: December 15, 2021, 11:27:26 AM »

Dwight, jondrums, and Pono, thanks for the thoughts!  I'll just have to experiment with baseplate shim v. stabilizer shim to see if I can improve ride angle / comfort.  A couple things are driving this for me:

1.  My kite hydrofoil setup is perfect, so I know it's possible to get it dialed just right for me.  My Moses 633 had too much lift for my light weight at 64kg (older fuselage and mast), so a little stabilizer shim was all that was needed.  The ride angle and foot pressure balance ended up being just right. Sooo effortless to cruise and carve.

2.  A friend who is at the level of riding a sinker and jumping gave my setup a try.  He said the only problem with my setup is that, although it won't pearl when you are standing vertical and touch down, the nose will catch when you are carving hard, causing instant wipeout.  I am a long way from "carving hard", but still this is another reason to get it dialed.

14

Wingsurfing, Windfoiling, Wingfoiling, Wing SUP / Re: The ART 999 Thread

« on: December 12, 2021, 02:49:25 PM »

Actually, it rides sweet.  It's not trying to nose dive at all, and I don't feel like it needs more counter force.  I would lust like to, not sure how to say it, keep everything the same, but with higher nose attitude, if that makes sense.

I think I currently have what feels like a perfectly level ride.  What I want is to raise the nose 2 or 3 inches while keeping everything else the same.

I notice that many boards have zero tail rocker.  Fanatic boards have a bit of tail rocker.  Do any other boards have tail rocker?

15

Wingsurfing, Windfoiling, Wingfoiling, Wing SUP / Re: The ART 999 Thread

« on: December 12, 2021, 10:36:53 AM »

What about 999 ride angle?  I have a board with zero tail rocker, short fuselage, p350 tail wing, and Axis 860 carbon mast.  For me this setup is very stable and I enjoy the even foot pressure at pretty much all speeds.  But it seems to ride a little more nose down than I would prefer.  It doesn't pearl when I touch down or anything like that, but just for comfort I would prefer to have both knees bent at the same angle rather than having my back leg bent more to compensate.  So the solution, I guess, is to either get a board with some tail rocker or shim the mast / board connection.  Since I am still new at this, I am wondering if there are advantages in leaving it alone?

Also, will the ride angle change if I go to a shorter fuse?

This forum is such a great resource.  Many thanks to all!