Messages

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Wingsurfing, Windfoiling, Wingfoiling, Wing SUP / Re: 400 Hours On Foil: A summer on narrow boards and the search for a perfect surf e

« on: November 23, 2023, 11:01:52 PM »

Glad to hear everyone is having so much success!

For what it's worth, I'm now 123 sessions deep into this year and have just put in an order for a 5'10"x20"@85l Sunova Carver as my next board. No footstrap inserts and vapor construction, hoping for a 10lbs build! Pulled the trigger on two new foils as well, the Code 720s and 770r. I've recently started to feel as though my Cloud IX fs850 is my "old man foil" which is probably just due to the fact that I have gotten so extremely comfortable on the smaller sizes and am looking for more speed.

Current winter conditions in the gorge are gusting up towards 60 knot days so I'm out on 2m wings with 850 foils as the largest and continue having too much fun as the season has wound down for most others! The increased board efficiency continues to be an absolute blast to experience day after day.

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Wingsurfing, Windfoiling, Wingfoiling, Wing SUP / Re: 400 Hours On Foil: A summer on narrow boards and the search for a perfect surf e

« on: October 16, 2023, 12:15:36 PM »

Thank you, that's extremely helpful. One question:

If you get a cuda, you need a new foil and new wings to go with it. ... If you just slap a big foil on it and use the same wing as always, you don't really have a concept of what is possible on it.

To be sure I understand, this is because the narrow board accelerates very quickly, so you can take off with a smaller foil and wing than with a wider board. And you'd be leaving a lot of speed/maneuverability/freedom/etc on the table if you didn't downsize your gear on the narrow board?

Yes, this is a correct understanding of the situation. Essentially, you need to completely re-quiver your setup to fully embrace narrow boards and everything they have to offer. Which is a tough pill to swallow for most. For most people, they could just use their smallest wing and then pick up a smaller foil as the first step in the right direction.

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Wingsurfing, Windfoiling, Wingfoiling, Wing SUP / Re: 400 Hours On Foil: A summer on narrow boards and the search for a perfect surf e

« on: October 11, 2023, 11:30:15 PM »

B-Walnut (or anyone else who has an opinion) can you comment on the upper end of things where in your experience having the cuda doesn't work so well for winging? For example what about:
- wind 20-30 (or even 30-35)
- big, long period open ocean swells
- lots of very messy short period wind chop

I'm intrigued and trying to understand under what conditions the cuda lags for winging. For example in 25 wind I can imagine the walk to/from the beach is a nightmare. You make a very good case for 10-25 wind and rolling swell.

You have an interesting take, thank you for sharing.

IMO the true negatives are very few.

Walking to the water in extreme winds is undoubtedly treacherous. That's a significant negative if you have exposed beaches and long walks in the wind. Almost all of the launches in the gorge are not an issue with this.

It's really easy to ding it because you're swinging such a big board around that doesn't fit in your car as easily.

I would pick it over a short wide board every day. A short narrow board will beat it though.

I did not have problems in small chop, or big swell. I did not have problems on a 66cm mast, or an 86cm mast.

Many people tried to tell me that the cuda won't work in heavy winds because "it has too much rail." This was nonsense in my experience. I ripped upwind in 40 knots on that board and never once thought to myself "woah, the wind is grabbing the board!"

I think people are looking for reasons to shoot it down even though they haven't ridden it. With that, the average person cannot correctly demo these boards. If you get a cuda, you need a new foil and new wings to go with it. My smallest foil was a 1210 and I rode 3.5-4.5m wings every day before getting it. When I had it, I preferred to ride a 700 foil with a 2.5-3.5m wing. That opens the board up to its full potential. If you just slap a big foil on it and use the same wing as always, you don't really have a concept of what is possible on it.

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Wingsurfing, Windfoiling, Wingfoiling, Wing SUP / Re: 400 Hours On Foil: A summer on narrow boards and the search for a perfect surf e

« on: October 09, 2023, 05:18:12 PM »

B-Walnut, loved reading this.. I'm exactly the same as you. All about waves, no freestyle and I try to spend the least on hand wings and use money for foils.  I have a 1 board quiver 4'10 22" 60L for my 78kgs for the ocean . I only wing in 12 knots or over. I own a 5m and a 4m, 900 and 1100cm3,  8.4ar foils. Applying your logic I could probably have a 5'3 80L 21" board and use a 3m and a 4m wing and a 700 and 900 foil. Which does sound very tempting....

*A side note - width definitely makes a bigger difference when on foil than I first though. I prone surf using foil drive and a 4'6 35L board. I tried a 19" wide 4'2 and I completely over foiled. On turns I put way too much pressure and it felt twitchy. I'm sure I could be comfortable after a few sessions but for now I'm happy with a slightly wider board.

Thanks for chiming in! My new board is coming (this week!?) and I continue to test the limits of small wings, boards, foils. Right now conditions have been over nuked and will continue to be that way through most of the winter here. I've been riding a 2m strike (almost zero low end) with my 5'3"x22" 83l kalama and my fs1000 foil in winds averaging 35 knots. I'm hoping my new board (6'3"x22" 83l) will allow me to use the same wing but drop down to my 850-700 with 2m most days.

Also, big thanks for throwing in your 2 cents about the 19" wide. I went with 20" wide on this custom since I overheard James Casey mention in his podcast that 20" wide boards are more fun to turn and surf than 18-19" wide boards. I assume this taps into the twitchiness you mentioned as well as my commentary about boards that you can push, vs boards you have to chase when on foil. There's undoubtedly going to be a sweet spot that we all settle into and depending on what type of foiling we all prefer I can imagine that going too short and narrow might feel like too much, especially if we are unlocking tiny foils in the 550-700 range. I also am reminding myself that the narrower we go, the thicker the board gets, which alters balance points etc, etc. Can't wait to see how my new ride works out and will report on it when it comes in!

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Wingsurfing, Windfoiling, Wingfoiling, Wing SUP / Re: Favorite places to score swell while winging?

« on: September 28, 2023, 03:18:45 PM »

Rooster? Not sure I've ever seen swell there. Is it upwind to the east or something? Usually pretty flat to me, even when it's 40 knots.

No, you're right, after I wrote it I thought it didn't belong, though Rooster Rock on an east wind day when the whole river is blown flat as a board but the spindrift is waist high is just magical. As long as you're really good at going upwind (my single claim to fame). Otherwise, it's a long walk back to your rig.

I totally ate my words at rooster the other day. Nice rolling swell with 25-30 knots of east wind. Went again in west winds and it was dead flat. I'm guessing when it nukes those 40 knot days it kills the swell.

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Wingsurfing, Windfoiling, Wingfoiling, Wing SUP / Re: Narrow vs Wide Boards: Beginners to Advanced

« on: September 28, 2023, 03:16:44 PM »

Oh right …. Checking in at 175
I suppose in the dead of winter I might find a deal….

Yep, the hover 125 should be a breeze to learn on. I've seen small riders learn on the 105 for sure, so that's not off the table and you could have fun for a long time on the 105.

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Wingsurfing, Windfoiling, Wingfoiling, Wing SUP / Re: Narrow vs Wide Boards: Beginners to Advanced

« on: September 14, 2023, 08:25:35 AM »

Been noticing folks showing up with long narrow downwind boards to learn winging at my local spot.. 

After seeing them struggle to balance in flat water, I've recommend they borrow a slower wide SUP board and paddle around.  Usually it takes one/two session with the paddle to sort things out - like being deliberate in movement, counter balancing, knowing the max buoyant point on the board, etc...   After building confidence standing on the board, I then tell them to start with a wing.  Many have said the rush to get the latest gear didn't serve their needs, and would have been better to ask local folks what to start with.  In my observations, downwind boards make it harder for most beginners to lean the sport.   

It's interesting seeing the different balance points of beginners. I see some who are on 120l boards, 34" wide with all those added foam things, and they still can't balance. Others, specifically women (in the small sample I have) really excel with narrow boards. I've seen plenty who just can't get on foil with those big boards but you give them a DW board and they are instantly up and riding.

It's all different teaching methods too. I, personally, would never tell someone to practice standing on a board without a wing. That seems to be a thing people have started teaching recently and it makes no sense to me. I saw someone religiously do that because they were told to and they spent 6 months trying to balance on their board without a wing.

In the end, better mentorship and teaching methods are needed. I've only met one kite instructor over the years that seemed to be a good instructor. I see tons of people just sitting on jetskis watching beginners flail and get paid for it. One piece of gear can have a big impact, but the right guidance is needed.

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Wingsurfing, Windfoiling, Wingfoiling, Wing SUP / Re: Favorite places to score swell while winging?

« on: September 04, 2023, 04:50:33 PM »

My favorites: Ka'a, Kanaha, and North Kihei for the long reaches, but not much swell. The Hatchery, Swell City, The Wall, Arlington, Rufus in the Gorge, and Rooster Rock on east wind days. SoCal kind of sucks for wind, though the swell is pretty good. Oregon Coast--Manzanita, Pacific City, various Astoria spots. Pistol River for crazy shit.

Rooster? Not sure I've ever seen swell there. Is it upwind to the east or something? Usually pretty flat to me, even when it's 40 knots.

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Wingsurfing, Windfoiling, Wingfoiling, Wing SUP / Re: 400 Hours On Foil: A summer on narrow boards and the search for a perfect surf e

« on: September 04, 2023, 08:46:33 AM »

I’m all in on the narrow bandwagon. My two boards are 7’6 and 5’5.

For me, it’s all about making life easier.

Our paths differ in the quest for tiny wings. I’m OK with just not having to error on the side of rigging too big when the wind is unreliable.

At age 69, I enjoy and need, more balance assist from the wing than a younger me.

I've been trying to figure out the point of dimishing returns on the small wing. At the moment, I don't feel like my 3.5m is cumbersome, but it generates too much power when I am using it as a turn assist, (imagine how we use paddles in sup to assist the turn and apply that concept to the wing). 2.5m is really nice for that application, but it's not pumping me up onto foil very often.

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Wingsurfing, Windfoiling, Wingfoiling, Wing SUP / 400 Hours On Foil: A summer on narrow boards and the search for a perfect surf e

« on: September 02, 2023, 10:29:33 AM »

*this is a long post.

Before I dive into this post I want to qualify a few things:

1. I am not claiming to be an expert. I’ve put in a lot of hours, and I’m sharing my experience. I’m really excited about the progression of our sport and I’m giving back to the community with the data I’ve acquired. Hopefully you can use this info to have more fun, progress faster, and save money.
2. One of the biggest flaws I see in people looking for new gear is they ask “who makes the best…. fill in the blank (foil, wing, board)?” While I also desire to have the best, this is a flawed question. Look at any post asking that and you’ll discover that whatever brand they ride, rep, sell is “second to none!” Instead, I want to encourage people to ask themselves “What is the most important trait in any given piece of gear to me?” or, “What is my preferred style of foiling, and what traits enhance that?” Then, research what makes those traits work so you can qualify peoples answers and hunt for the right gear.
3. Narrow boards should not be restricted to down winding or light wind riding.
In the spirit of #2 I’ll tell you what the absolute most important traits to me are:
Board: Fast on the water, surfs well.
Foil: Roll, glide, stall speed.
Wing: Flagging stability, small.
These traits are important to me because all I want to do is surf swell. I’m not here to jump, mow the lawn, downwind, or do fancy wing tricks and maneuvers. Nothing against anyone who does those things, I’ve tried them too, I’m just here to surf. So, all of my research is aimed at perfecting my experience wing surfing the Columbia River. As such, you may see things from a different perspective than I do. That’s cool too, this isn’t dogma.

The gear I learned on:
5’10” x 29” 123l Kalama e3 15.5lbs
Kujira 1500 foil.

Progressed to:
4’8” x 26” 83l Kalama e3 13lbs
Kujira 1210 foil.
Rider and gear details for 2023:

85kg rider - I don't have any legendary skills but I think I can do some pretty fun zig zags on the waves.
3rd season winging. First season dedicated to winging.
Foils: Cloud IX Surf Foils 550 square cm-1780 square cm
Wings: Cloud IX 2.8m and 3.5m
Boards:
Kalama Barracuda 8’x21” 111.68l 13.5lbs
Kalama e3 DW/SUP/Prone 5’3”x22” 83l 11.5lbs
Cloud IX Custom 6’3”x20” 83l (on order) 9lbs

Board Takeoff:

The very first thing you will notice with a narrow board is the speed and glide that you can generate while on the water and off of foil. This is undeniable and all you have to do to verify this is to look at downwind paddlers of various disciplines and you’ll notice that nobody is out there trying to make their gear wide and short. It doesn’t matter if they are on a downwind SUP, SUPfoil, surfski, outrigger canoe, etc. As such, let’s just agree that every other sport has gotten that right. So, how does that actually apply to winging? Speed is what you need to get on foil. It doesn’t matter if you have a low aspect, high aspect, thin, or thick foil. You need a certain amount of forward speed to get them all activated. A narrow hull is going to cut through the water and generate speed with less effort than is needed with a wider hull. This allows you to consistently use smaller wings to generate the same amount of speed to activate the lift you need with your foil. The next thing to consider is glide. You may or may not notice that when you are trying to get on foil, if you stop pumping your wing and flag out while on the water your board comes to a stop really quickly. With a narrow hull that is not the case. Once you have generated speed, you lose it far less quickly than a wide hull. So, when you are pumping your foil and you are cycling through the period of generating speed, to recovering the wing, you aren’t losing the same amount of hull speed during that recovery period. As such, fewer pumps for a shorter duration are necessary to get you up on foil. I have plenty of footage of me slogging with my 4’8” x 26” 83l Kalama e3 and struggling to get up on foil with my kujira 1500 and 4.5m wing in light winds. Yet, my Kalama e3 DW/SUP/Prone 5’3”x22” 83l has gotten me up in winds as light as 12 knots with my Cloud IX fs1150 and 3.5m wing. Same liters. Different shapes. Smaller wing and foil.

Swing Weight:

Ah yes, the question/statement that most jump to “yeah but the swing weight is terrible.” We are all used to the idea that longer, wider boards, are not as fun to ride as shorter, wider boards. This is true. My 5’10”x29” e3 was an absolute dump truck to ride while my 4’8”x26” e3 was way more fun in the air. However, in my opinion, the wider boards are relying on the yaw axis far too much to turn. If you look at the way a surfer turns, they don’t yaw side to side to initiate turns and move like a car. They roll the board rail to rail to crank turns. That’s why you see surfers on narrow boards with their feet in fixed positions, while SUP surfers have to move their feet rail to rail to be able to roll the board through turns. This can be applied to narrow boards vs wide boards in winging. Narrow boards are more capable of initiating a roll as well as moving through it faster. (the foil setup below also matters, to be discussed later). In my experience, a board that rolls well produces a superior surfing experience to a board that doesn’t. As such, my original, beginner 5’10”x29” e3 was terrible to swing, but my 8’x21” Barracuda is a blast to ride. It rolls into the turn fast and then relies on the fuse length to crank the turn. Look at the footage of all the badass downwind supfoilers we have in the gorge. They are cranking turns and throwing the tips out on their foils. You don’t see anyone doing that with boards of equal volume that are short and wide. Last, is a 96" Barracuda actually 96" of swing weight!? The answer is a simple no. Due to the fact that your foil track boxes sit farther forward I have found that while my 96" Barracuda is 32" longer than my 63" e3, my mast is so far forward on the Barracuda that the nose of the board is actually only sticking out 17" further, not 33". ROUGHLY I'm expecting that the narrow boards that are slightly longer only gain 6" of swing length for every 12" of board length that are added to them.

For what it’s worth, after my first time riding my 8’x21” Barracuda with my surf foils, I sold my 4’8”x26” e3 and have never wished I had it back.

"Yeah, but even if you can swing it you'll be clipping the nose on waves and would never be able to tack it unless you had a mast over 90cm."
Well, I had never even tried a tack before someone said this to me and am never one to shy away from a challenge I grabbed the 8' barracuda and my 66cm mast and went out to the river to learn tacks. I got my first toeside tacks after about 10 attempts. So yes, you can tack these boards. What about clipping the nose though? Sure, if you are in the bottom of a small period swell trough you can the nose. However, I typically ride a 66-76cm mast and it didn't take much for me to adapt to this. On larger swell it's a non-issue. When I use my 86cm mast, I don't have an issue either.

Aren’t these boards too tippy?

This is what the shop told me when I wanted to buy one. I disagree. Your foil is a massive stabilizer for side to side issues and the length of the board increases stability as well. Plus, when you are on this board it’s hard to be in the wrong position. There’s 7-9” less of side to side space to incorrectly position yourself on. The instant your wing is in the air these boards rocket forward and stabilize 100%. If you can learn to foil, you can learn to balance on these boards. That being said, some boards have rounded hulls which I personally found to be less stable than boards like the barracuda that have sharper angles on the hull.

Gear Selection:

In my experience the takeoff is far better, and the swing weight is mitigated by the enhanced roll. This leads us to performance gains in other departments. A higher level of speed is generated and maintained by glide when using smaller wings. Most of us would agree, smaller wings are a joy to use. Most people know the feeling of needing a bigger wing to get on foil, but wishing you had a smaller wing once you were in flight. Many resort to using a harness or grunting through the wrist, elbow, and shoulder pain caused by being overpowered. In years past I dealt with all the elbow issues and self PT to try and keep my body fine. I wouldn’t even play tug of war with my dog during the summer since my elbows would be too fragile. This year, with more winging than ever before I have had ZERO need for any PT and I still get to play with my dog. Being able to get on foil with the same size wing you need once up is a delight.
The added speed also allows you to activate much smaller foils. As a novice rider who was pushed to “lower your liters!” and “get a shorter board!” I was severely hamstrung with big wings and big foils. Honestly, two years in, I felt like winging sucked. This year in fact I intended to only kite and supfoil but I broke my ribs at the start of the season and had to give up kiting (harness pain). Fortunately I had bought the Barracuda to supfoil on and had no clue how big of an impact it was going to have on me. I had never ridden a foil smaller than the Kujira 1210 when I got it, but within two weeks I was capable of riding the Cloud IX fs700. I think most would argue that is a shocking change in equipment over such a short period of time. Things get even more interesting at this point. If we compare the swing weight experience of a small, high performance board we still see it beat the performance of a Barracuda if both use large foils. However, as soon as the wind reaches 25 knots the Barracudas hull speed allowed me to use foils down to the size of the fs550 with a 2.8m wing this summer. I do not believe we see many foilers in the gorge riding gear that small. I could be wrong, but I just haven’t met many using gear of that size. The shocking reduction in foil size also dramatically increases the performance of a board like the Barracuda, further eliminating the “swing weight” argument because the performance of a small foil dramatically speeds up the 8’ board.

What happens when you go short and narrow? How does that affect performance?

I’m exploring this right now and am trying to do it as scientifically as possible. My shortboard comparisons:
Kalama e3 wing/sup 4’8”x26” 83l 13lbs
Kalama e3 DW/SUP/Prone 5’3”x22” 83l 11.5lbs
Cloud IX Custom 6’3”x20” 83l 9lbs (projected weight)
You’ll notice that I am keeping the liters the exact same across each board. I didn’t have a choice in the Kalamas but in the spirit of getting the best possible data and comparisons I decided to have my Cloud IX made in the same liters, but with a longer, narrower shape. (I really dislike the question of “how many liters is your board?” let’s talk shape before we grind on liters). Takeoff between the 4’8” and 5’3” e3 is incomparable. The fact that I’ve ridden my fs700 with a 3.5m wing on my 5’3” e3 is inconceivable to think of when I was struggling with my 1210 and the 4’8” last year. However, how does the 5’3”x22” e3 compare to the 8’x21” Barracuda? This is a bit of an interesting conundrum. When I ride my Barracuda I am able to rip full 180 degree cutbacks with the foil tips breached and the nose going from straight downwind to straight upwind. It’s a blast and the thing that stands out to me is that I, personally, have the skill level to PUSH the Barracuda extremely hard. However, what happens when I try to do the same with the e3? Well, interestingly, I can’t perform as well. First, I have more time/experience on the Barracuda. I rode that board for three months and I have about one month of experience on the e3 so it’s an unfair comparison at the moment. I may get there but here’s what I’ve found. Just like short and wide is more responsive than long and wide, short and narrow is more responsive than long and narrow. More than a few times I have gone to crank turns on the 5’3”x22” e3 and the board has flat out gotten away from me! This never happened on my Barracuda and I don’t remember it happening on my 4’8”x26” e3 either. So, what’s happening here and why is it remarkable? In my opinion, the faster roll of the narrow board has allowed me to enhance performance with smaller foils. The faster roll of the narrow board is amplifying the effect of the foil below. As such, I have begun to look at the entire foil to board system in a completely different light. Since I bought a complete line of foils, stabilizers, and masts, I am able to mix, match, tune, test, and play with every little detail in my kit and I now look at every single piece of gear and ask myself how it will dampen, or amplify, the performance of the rest of my kit. I don’t think of them individually any longer.
Mast length: Shorter masts amplify performance. Longer masts dampen performance.
Stabilizers: Smaller stabilizers amplify performance. Larger stabilizers dampen performance. (I’m wildly interested in stabilizers now that I am trying to figure out how to dampen performance).
Foil: Smaller foils amplify performance. Larger foils dampen performance.
Board: Short and narrow amplifies performance. Long and narrow dampens performance.
These amplification vs dampening characteristics are getting into the realm of extreme details for the average rider so the best way I can simplify it is like this: I mentioned above that I can PUSH the Barracuda as hard as my skill level will allow and it always performed. However, I am trying to KEEP UP with the same kit on the 5’3”x22” e3. Since I cannot PUSH the e3 my performance suffers. I am now becoming highly selective about which mast and stabilizer to match with each foil in order to actually dampen the e3. For this reason, I went LONGER with my custom board. I want to have faster/easier takeoffs with smaller wings in lighter winds (not that the e3 is bad) and I want the slightly longer board to dampen the foils below. However, I made the Cloud IX Custom 20” wide, and it will be significantly lighter than the Kalama boards, so, perhaps, the dampening effect will not be as apparent? Time will tell on that one.

Progression!

I went from being bored with winging to being head over heels in love with it. Why? Because I’m never afraid to fall with a narrow board, the relaunch is so easy that it inspires me to try those turns and tip breaches I never thought were possible. My body never hurts. I can put in 4-6 hours a day without needing therapy since my wing doesn’t destroy my body. I don’t ever have to fly a wing bigger than 3.5m unless I specifically am testing ultralight capabilities of unique setups. As soon as the wind reaches 20 knots, I can use a 2.8m or smaller wing. Having a smaller wing allows me to use the wing to slash bigger, more powerful turns without getting thrown off balance. Most days I’m trying to see how many tips out frontside/backside turns I can link in a row before I lose it.

Safety: Progression is often unlocked in relation to how safe I feel and when I’m pushing the limits. it’s nice to know that the narrow boards paddle back to shore really well. It could be light winds or broken gear in heavy winds, it’s much easier to paddle a narrow shape back and it inspires me to go for it.

With my necessity to actually slow the new e3 down, I have room for more progression on an absolute speedster of a board if my body can develop the movement to keep up.

The perfect kit:

For me, the perfect kit is going to be an evolving target. Right now, figuring out the exact board size that unlocks riding a 3.5m wing and my fs850 (personal favorite) in winds down to 15 knots is the goal. I also want to feel like I am in control and able to push my gear, not chase it (I’m close to this now, recent stabilizer testing has been great). I’m dreaming of getting my wing quiver down to 3.5m for 10-19 knots and 2.5m for 20 knots and above. I’m hopeful that the new cutting edge fabrics matched with the narrow hulls will allow this to happen. I also greatly appreciate saving my wing money and putting it into my foils. Wings are more expensive than foils, don’t last as long, and I, personally, would much rather ride slightly different sized foils that I can amplify performance on with mast/stabilizer combinations than use a larger wing.

Additional testing needed:

While I am currently testing all of these boards at close to neutral buoyancy I need to collect additional data on how positive, and negative buoyancy impacts takeoff and wing size. Once I have my custom and the feedback from it I will be more capable of evaluating if I should pursue positive, vs negative buoyancy first. My current data is pointing to +5 to +10 L/kg will be nice for shorter/narrow boards in the lightest wind. I think neutral buoyancy will be easy for boards that are closer to 6’. Negative 10 l/kg buoyancy should be easy for moderate winds (20 knots and above) and short/narrow boards.
I also need additional data on how narrow becomes too narrow. I went with 20” on my custom for two reasons. 1. Because it’s different than my other two boards (22” e3 and 21” Cuda). 2. Because in scouring the internet for data on something that is very new I came across commentary from James Casey (he’s better at foiling than me) who said that he feels a 20” board is more fun to turn than an 18” board. He didn’t expand on why, but I am making the assumption that the 18” board over amplifies the roll, and the 20” board dampens it to an enjoyable state. I will admit that I can feel the width difference from 21”-22” and I expect the 20” board will be noticeable as well.
Last, I’m interested in understanding what happens when the board becomes lighter vs heavier. Unfortunately, I think this will be the hardest data to come by since I can’t really afford to buy/own a huge quiver of wing boards.

In Closing:

I hope this write up encourages you to start to look at your board, foil, and wing as a complete system instead of individual parts. That's the biggest takeaway for me. Narrow boards, short dw boards, whatever you want to call them, have a lot of benefits and I'm very excited to be exploring them.

Thanks for taking the time to read and contribute!

FAQ:
Since initially sharing this a few additional questions have been asked.

Don’t long boards get caught in the wind really badly?

Yes, walking to the water with an 8’ board in 40 knots sucks and is dangerous. On the water, I have had zero issues and have heard zero reports of others complaining about this. If you actually do the rough math, there’s more surface area for the wind to grab on my 4’8”x26” 83l board than on my 5’3”x22” 83l board.

I think these boards are all hype from the DW industry to sell more product. How can it outperform my 45l sinker?

If you are a hyper advanced rider who can actually fully rip on a tiny board then no, it wont compare. Congrats! You’ve reached an extreme niche and that’s something to be proud of. For everyone else, from beginners, to intermediates, to advanced surfers, to lightwind riders, these boards are awesome and have a lot to offer. You’ve got to stop comparing an 8’ cuda to a sinker. However, a 5’3”x22” narrow board has an insane number of benefits both on the water and on foil that can’t be refuted.

11

Wingsurfing, Windfoiling, Wingfoiling, Wing SUP / Re: Kalama E3 Wing/prone/dw 5'3" vs 5'9"???

« on: August 12, 2023, 06:33:59 PM »

That should have been communicated prior to fulfilling the order it seems like. I'd be upset. Boards aren't cheap.

Well, I decided to keep it after all and must admit, it's a slayer for sure. Takeoff is better than I'd expect from your average wingboard, nice and light at 11.6lbs. It's a little awkward having something so short again, haha, it will take me a bit to catch up to how snappy the board is. Everything just happens faster with it. Touchdowns are a breeze, the board just skips off the water instead of ejecting me over the handles.

Big gain in tip breaches. I'm not sure why that's so much easier on this board, but it absolutely slashes the river with tips probably 6-7" out of the water becoming the norm right away. Super fun.

Also, had my first few slogs on it when the wind crapped out. I guess this was bound to happen sooner or later. I was on an 850 foil with a 3.5m wing in 18 knots and was fine, until it dropped out a bit, my guess was 14-15 knots with lulls down to 10 knots. I will admit, even though I was bummed to be slogging back, at least I was on my feet and felt like I had a chance to get back on foil if the right puff came.

Altogether, an excellent board to have and I can't imagine anything else on the market making me happier. Sad to see that they are getting discontinued, but that just means that new boards are coming, which will be even better. After selling off my Barracuda I'll be walking away with money in my pocket, so all is well as far as avoiding winging gear obsession bankruptcy.

I'll say that dropping from 8' down to 5'3" has interesting pros/cons. I definitely had to size up from a 2.8m wing to a 3.5m which is a significant negative to me (3.5 is still small compared to the 4-5m wings others are on). On foil, I was pushing my barracuda to the limit, which is also a fun place to be. With the smaller board, I'm playing catchup a little bit. It will take me a few more sessions to be on top of it as the board has actually gotten away from me a few times!

12

Wingsurfing, Windfoiling, Wingfoiling, Wing SUP / Re: The foils I demo'd and why I landed on Cloud IX

« on: August 08, 2023, 02:31:40 PM »

Hi B-Walnut.Nice review.

I ride Takuma Kujiras (v1 980 for wing and 1095 for surfoil).

Are the Clouds Fs good at pumping when surfoiling?

I am 70kg/154lbs and was considering the 850 for everyday winging and 1000 or 1150 for surfoil (i ride mostly small waves).

The 850 is a great wingfoil. I think it pumps reasonably well and it's incredibly snappy/surfy even with an 86cm mast on it if you like the longer mast for winging.

If I was choosing between the 1000 and the 1150 for surfing I would go 1000 unless you are talking super small waves. I think the 1000 pumps great but is significantly faster than the 1150.

13

Wingsurfing, Windfoiling, Wingfoiling, Wing SUP / Re: The foils I demo'd and why I landed on Cloud IX

« on: August 02, 2023, 02:55:01 PM »

I’d like to but no, seems like they have tried to hold those back so they can blowout the sales on the kujira 1 at the moment.

14

Wingsurfing, Windfoiling, Wingfoiling, Wing SUP / Re: The foils I demo'd and why I landed on Cloud IX

« on: August 01, 2023, 03:48:01 PM »

What part of Ventura do you live in.

Nice writeup.

Haha

My wife is from down there but we live in Portland now.

15

Wingsurfing, Windfoiling, Wingfoiling, Wing SUP / Re: The foils I demo'd and why I landed on Cloud IX

« on: August 01, 2023, 03:23:52 PM »

What is your size, wind conditions, and which size Cloud IX did you land on?

Many of those foils you tried are quite large and intended for big people and/or low power (1440, H2 250, P170).  The Lift and Code are very different from the others.

Good to get a view of a wide range of options.

Good questions:

186lbs.
I ride in 10-40 knots in the gorge.

The unfortunate thing about demos is that in my experience, you typically don't get a huge selection to choose from. So, those just happened to be what was available in the last few months. I was really lucky to get access to the whole Cloud IX lineup.

The foils I landed on:
I learned to downwind paddle on the fs1780 and once I got myself sorted I downsized to the fs 1350 w/157 stab for paddling and lightwind days.
If the swell is waist high and smaller, I typically ride the fs1000 w/177 stab.
If the swell is chest high and bigger, I typically ride the fs850 w/157 stab.

The fs1150 was good, but felt slower than I wanted. Beginner/intermediate friendly. I paddled that for a bit before the fs1350.
The fs700 is super fun, feels like a high performance shortboard, it needs solid swell and wind to ride.
The fs550 was super reactive, I didn't ride it as much since it had a higher stall speed than I wanted. It's meant for big wave surfing so it makes sense that it needs some go juice when winging.