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Messages - surfwingsteve

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So here's the thing, the biggest factor in lift is velocity. Area and foil profile are linear, velocity is exponential. Double the area and you perhaps double the lift (actually less because of greater drag, but let's not gag at gnats). Double velocity and lift is four times greater.

So when high aspect decreases lift to drag ration it also lets you get the foil going faster for the same power (paddle, wave or wing). Beginning foilers have a hard time getting the speed up, but as soon as you master that the huge draggy wing becomes, well, huge and draggy.

I'm 225+, and a 101 Axis, which is about 1400 sq cm is plenty. When I started out the only thing I could reliably fly on was the GoFoil 280, which is about the size of a Cessna wing.

Which is a long way around to tell you that where you are in your progression has more to do with what you need for a wing than any other factor. I'm reasonably sure that when I get better I'm going to think the 101 is a ridiculous monster and it will be resting in the pile of crap in the back seat of my truck.

I'm not sure any of this is helpful with your question other than to say whatever you have will work sooner or later in less and less wind.

Thank you PonoBill. Don't you just LOVE the physics of this sport?  SOOO important in truly understanding and figuring out what you must do with your gear and your body to adjust the variables to get flight.  I totally nerd out on it.  I, at 200lbs, am on the Maliko 280, can't imagine dropping to a 1400, but Bill you give us all hope at 73 and 225lbs!  Keep rocking it!

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Wingsurfing, Windfoiling, Wingfoiling, Wing SUP / Re: Slingshot V2
« on: May 16, 2020, 08:54:40 AM »
As I have two windowless wings, and I'm aware they add some weight,  seems like adding windows is more forwards thinking.  Tips on Winging in more crowded areas without windows?  I find I need to raise my tail up to peer underneath if I'm moving downwind, and because I'm new, I of course struggle to get the power back up and/or stay on the foil.

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This will help you with the little one



Saw that on youtube, Dwight, Awesome video, SUPER helpful, thank you!

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Wingsurfing, Windfoiling, Wingfoiling, Wing SUP / Re: Axis Foils
« on: May 10, 2020, 07:16:24 AM »
Pono Bill:
 "I'm always looking for equipment to compensate for my shortcomings."

I think this is so unique and hilarious for this sport.  Can't get upwind?  I need a harness.  Can't get up on the foil?  I clearly Need a bigger foil. Can't tack in low winds?  I need a bigger kite.....and It goes on and on doesn't it?  It did take a bigger kite, a bigger foil and a decent chunk of my daughters first year tuition in college to fly this thing.

5
The technique I use for light winds is pull in the rear hand to your hip and at the same time front foot should be coming up as you're pushing your rear foot down compressing the tail of the foil. It'll scoot the board forward and eventually onto foil. A steady constant motion is better than a rigorous erratic motion. You just need to get to lifting speed and then you're on foil, a difference of one mph can do the trick.
Rear hand to the hip is a great way to think a bout it.  I will try that.  Thank you!

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General Discussion / Re: Opening day casualty
« on: May 10, 2020, 07:05:58 AM »
Broke two Naish super lightweight and flexible carbon fiber paddles in the same spot leaning my 200lbs onto my paddle on a bottom turn.  First one they replaced, second I got my money back.  I believe there are paddles made that are reinforced at the neck.  I've had a carbon fiber Kialoa Methane now for over 5, no problems.

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It's extremely hard to pump a 280.
ok good, so it's not that I'm totally out of shape......

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Super common problem for us noobs.  Am I doing this pumping wrong or is this not enough wind for my fat ass and my gear? Please, I'm looking to be corrected here if I am wrong. In lighter winds I'm finding a couple of big slower pumps on the wing and board to gain speed (I think pulling down on kite, lifting the nose of the board up as you want to think about breaking the board's seal with the sea, lifting the board out of the water by making yourself lighter AND pointing the foil front wing upwards), and as I am rising I give 3-4 small but fast quick pulls down on the kite to get me up and going.  In heavier wind with my 6m, I literally find with my Maliko 280, and me at 200lbs (Well 205 in isolation :o)), I can just lean back with a little more weight further back on the tail and up I go.  Any other ideas? Appreciate it.

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Can someone post a good third person video of a strong upwind run?

Harness, harness, harness. Harness will crush anyone without it upwind.

Notice you can see the bottom of my board. Heeled to windward as much as possible for the power I had at the time. Wing pulled down and vertical. This is when you can load up your legs with so much force they start to buckle when super lit.



At 2:13 in the video I make an upwind run. Most of the video is just me goofing off.



Thats a great video Dwight, thank you.  You are really banking that foil.  I seem to get into that position and then when a lull comes I am leaning too far back and in I go.  I experimented yesterday and found, like with windsurfing, if I try to hold the kite towards the downwind side of my body I can point and get upwind easier.  My walk of shame dropped from a quarter mile to 100m!  Most of you are likely saying "duh" to holding the kite towards the back of your body a bit, but for many of us this is new stuff. Thanks to all!

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So your forearms on the volar or palm side are from gripping and doing mini curls with your wrists, as when grasping the kite handles.  The muscles on the dorsal or top side of your forearm is from lifting your hands up, palm side down, which occurs when you are having to lift the kite up above your head.  depending on where your pain is, flip your grip upside down for a change.  When the top of my forearm is sore, I do a curl up grip vs. a chin up.  As you are learning, pumping the kite repetitively is REALLY hard on your arms, upper back, and more than that, the tendons in your elbows, in my opinion, putting you at risk for tennis or golfers elbow if you are doing too much, too hard, too long.  If you are learning and are having to pump the hell out of the kite and are not getting up on the foil you have 1) too little wind 2) Too small of a kite 3) Too small of a foil, and upsizing your gear to learn or getting in bigger wind minimizes the violence of your pumping and therefore the risk to your tendons.  For the record, I got tennis elbow bilaterally after a weekend of non stop pumping the kite in low wind with a foil too small for my weight and a 4m kite no good for 8-10mph winds.  Oh, and I'm 50 but in good shape.

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Wingsurfing, Windfoiling, Wingfoiling, Wing SUP / Re: Upwind on foil
« on: April 28, 2020, 03:17:50 PM »
Can someone post a good third person video of a strong upwind run?  That would help us analyze body and wing position.  Maybe there is something you guys flying upwind are doing that you are not realizing?  I know when I get up onto the foil I can cut upwind fairly well, but I am still at that phase of foiling where I ride upwind for 50m-fall off-get back onto the board-lose 60m-repeat-do football field walk or swim of shame at the end of the day.   

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love it.  Looking really good.  So is lake Washington open to us wingfoilers?  I see the NW kiteboarders badmouthing other kiters out and about because of injury risk and hospital resource utilization.  Despite being a huge supporter of isolating, I'm not convinced foiling out in open water is a huge risk involving injuries requiring hospitalization.  Certainly no more than a bike wipeout.  Would love to meet up with you out there if we get some wind this weekend.....not looking great so far.  I've been heading out into Henderson Bay but in borderline 8-10kt winds that are SUPER challenging for my skill level to get up onto the foil.

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It's all physics and math.  All the variables need to be close to identical- honestly even including riding skill to test the two.  You need the same guy with the same gear, with the same documented wind, same current,  swapping out kites NUMEROUS times to have an accurate comparison.  Take it a step further and you can get into body surface area, as body habitus, even with IDENTICAL weights will dramatically effect your wind resistance, right?  Imagine a 6'4 90kg vs a 5'4 90kg.  All variables otherwise equal, slenderman always wins.

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Wingsurfing, Windfoiling, Wingfoiling, Wing SUP / Re: Wing Size???
« on: February 22, 2020, 04:39:09 PM »
From someone who has wingsupped quite a bit while working towards getting up on my foil:

1)  You will have a really hard time getting and staying upwind unless you have a windsurf board with a centerboard, have really downturned sharp rails on your SUP or HAVE A FOIL.
2) You will get bored with a smaller wing and 15kt winds.  Too Slow for SUPping.
3) YOU WILL NEED A BIGGER KITE. With a 6 You wont get overpowered, you just luft the wing/hold that leading edge and let it flop when it gets gusty.  The larger wings, if not up on a foil, I think will drag in the water and pull you off your board quite a bit.

You will just need a bailout spot where you can walk back or do a dedicated downwinder with no intent of returning to point A while kiting.

15
Need to improve the pump.  I feel like I have the nose of that board just slapping up and down in the water to no avail.  I pump the kite with both arms and I see some just with the back arm.  Thoughts.  Agree PonoBill that I need to forget about staying upwind and just go for speed.  I feel like maybe a foot strap might help with the pump?  So far no strap because I'm still just figuring out where the hell I belong on that board- remember, falling is not my problem.  I can sail the board in 20kt winds all day, AND not lose ground.  Thats the problem, gotta stop worrying about losing ground and commit to the speed to get up.

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