Messages

1

Classifieds / Re: Sunova Creek 9'1"

« on: May 27, 2021, 11:07:58 AM »

Still available?

2

Gear Talk / Re: BOTE boards experience

« on: August 08, 2019, 01:42:50 PM »

Wetstuff,

I took a significant loss on the inflatables but broke even on the rest. Definitely the silver lining of the story.

3

Gear Talk / BOTE boards experience

« on: August 08, 2019, 08:34:33 AM »

I'll preface this review by stating that had I been a Zoner a couple years ago, I most likely would never have purchased a BOTE board in the first place  I posted this in a BOTE FB group where many people go prior to purchase asking for peoples experiences.

This post is in no way meant as a personal attack on any of the BOTE sales staff or employees. Matt Crane at the FWB store has been an amazing guy and only ever tried to help me get on the water. I have been to many demo's and events and paddled many BOTE boards and have friends that love them. I'm just sharing my personal experience here and why I have moved onto other products from other manufacturers.
 
My wife and I decided in fall of 2017 that we were going to purchase a couple paddle boards. We live near Destin, FL and demo’d both BOTE and YOLO boards that year. We spent several months researching and were sold on BOTE after demo and pouring over their website. Although it was never explicitly stated, I was led to believe by their marketing that all their boards are made right here in Fort Walton Beach (FWB), FL or at least somewhere in the USA.

We purchased two inflatable BOTE Drift Bugslinger boards spring 2018 new in the box from a local guy for $850 each. I had a leak in the side of the rail on one by its third use. I was told at the FWB BOTE store that the hole was my fault because I rolled the board too tightly and that they have seen this before. I rolled it tight enough to get in the bag, no tighter. Upon further investigation on my part I found that what caused the leak was rolling the board up and standing it on end to drain after use.

If you own an inflatable you know that when rolled, the board will crease and create sharp corners on each end. The puncture was right at a corner where the board was being stressed when rolled up. From the BOTE website on inflatable technology: “Don’t worry about scratches and dings because the military-grade PVC skin is virtually indestructible… The secret is the use of composite drop stitch fibers which connect the top and bottom layers of high quality, military-grade PVC.” (https://www.boteboard.com/pages/inflatable-paddle-boards). I began to wonder what their “military grade PVC” really was. I chalked this all up to a learning experience, patched it myself, and left the boards inflated for the rest of the season, then sold them in early 2019.

The same weekend that I approached BOTE about the leak in my inflatable board they were having a huge blowout sale at their warehouse store. I purchased two identical 12’ BOTE HD Lowriders for my wife and I. I bought one on the Thursday before Memorial Day weekend 2018 for $1050 and went back on Sunday to purchase a second. The sales staff offered me a price of $970, so I felt like I was getting a great deal compared to the usual retail pricing. My wife and I went out on the water on Monday together, and one of the boards barely “tapped” the ground when loading on the car and caved the nose in. Talk about bummed.

Not to be deterred, I watched many online videos of repairs and fixed it myself. I really have no complaints about those two boards for what I was using them for. My wife and I enjoyed them very much and I learned a lot about paddleboards in my experience with them. I wanted to go farther and faster so I started looking at the 14’ traveller, but balked at the $1800 price tag. I went to a demo in March 2019 and tried a 14’ traveller. I sold one of my Lowriders for $1000 and bought a damaged 14’ Traveller Bugslinger for $1000 that I spent about $200 getting professionally repaired.

Here is where I started having problems. The only damage this board had was to the bottom of the nose and a couple dings on the rails. I got these repaired locally by the guy recommended by BOTE and he did a great job, but every time I used the board it felt heavier and heavier. I kept finding leaks. It was leaking from where attachment points were inserted into the board. I fixed those. The top of one of the rails caved in when I was climbing on the board after falling in the water one time. The board cracked near the front where the deck pad ended while on top of my car after being strapped down. It seemed like never ending problems. I fixed the spots I found and sold it for $1100.

Because I was feeling dissatisfied with the 14’ Traveller, I started seriously researching paddle boards and how they are made, where they come from, what makes one better than another, etc. I researched the BOTE website again, looking to find exactly what their boards are made out of or any info about how the epoxy is applied. Every company that is worth a crap in the paddle board industry is transparent about this process (BIC Sport: https://www.bicsport.com/sup/support/technology.html, Infinity SUP: https://infinity-sup.com/pages/boards, SIC: https://sicmaui.com/explore/technology.html, Sunova: https://sunovasurfboards.com/en/technology) Some even have videos of their factories and don’t hide the fact that they are made overseas to defray manufacturing costs. Precious few are made in the USA and those that are will be made custom and cost you near $3000 or more.

I have owned a total of 8 BOTE boards through buying and trading and coming across a couple deals on Facebook. Two inflatables, two 12’ lowriders, two 12’ HDs, and two travelers, one 12’6” and one 14’. I sold the last one yesterday. Of those boards, 3 cracked near the front where the deck pad ends and the nose begins, right where the lip is that defines the front of the standing are. These cracks are just from being stacked and hauled to the water on my THULE SUP Taxi. The deck pads began coming up on the lowriders in about a years’ time. The rubber BOTE emblem peeled off on a couple boards. The “stash pod” IS NOT waterproof. I really have no clue why they say that on their website, trust me when I say your keys WILL GET DRENCHED.

My major complaints about BOTE as a company and brand are these:

- Product and company transparency. Where it comes from, how it is made, who is responsible, etc. I know for a fact that their boards are produced in China, couldn’t believe it when I heard it, but was able to look up information online that is public record. I found names and addresses of their Chinese suppliers (listed at the end). BOTE’s website likes to use lots of industry buzzwords to sell products to uninformed consumers that don’t realize how poor their build quality really is.

- Sub-par quality control. One of my lowriders weighed 39.8lbs, the other weighed 35lbs, and one of the HDs which are advertised to be heavier was the lightest BOTE board I owned at 32lbs. This is a direct result of the folks glassing the boards not doing a good job and lacking consistency.

- The fiberglass layup is brittle. In the SUP world, EPS foam core and a good glass layup with quality materials results in boards that will flex well and spring back to original shape. In my experience, the BOTE boards have far less flex than other brands (SIC, Infinity, which we currently own, I’ve seen videos about Sunova where they stress test their designs, incredibly resilient boards, just to name a few).

- Customer support. BOTE is quick to blame customers for problems with their products. I have experienced this as have many others. It seems like they only care about publicity and image. They are quick to reach out if they feel like their image is at stake or their marketing strategy will suffer.

Thanks for taking the time to read about my experience with BOTE. If you are looking for a quality long lasting paddle board that will take a beating, look elsewhere. If you’re looking for a lifestyle board that sits in the garage and occasionally is taken out to the beach or sand bar, has beautiful designs and looks great, then buy a BOTE. They are just as good as any other Chinese board on the market but don’t expect anyone to bend over backwards for you if you have issues with the product. Don’t let the fancy marketing fool you, in this case you do not get what you pay for.

Website where info was found and their suppliers:

https://public.enigma.com/datasets/bill-of-lading-summary-2017/0293cd20-8580-4d30-b173-2ac27952b74b/?filter=%2B%5B%3E%5BBOTE%20Board%5D%5D

MANTESI SPORTS AND LEISURE, https://www.tradesparq.com/users/213920/Mr-Michael-zhou/company/174425/Ningbo-Mantesi-Sports-amp-Leisure-Products-Co-Ltd

TIANTAI VIRGIN SPORTS LLC, https://www.globalsources.com/si/AS/Tiantai-Virgin/6008848863521/Showroom/3000000149681/ALL.htm

ZHE JIANG INSURFIN SPORT CO LTD, https://www.globalsources.com/si/AS/ZHEJIANG-INSURFIN/6008848958313/Showroom/3000000149681/ALL.htm

4

Gulf States / Gulf Coast Paddling

« on: August 01, 2019, 09:29:21 AM »

Hey! Been a while since this forum got any activity. I'm looking for anyone that wants to do fitness/distance paddling near Destin FL. My wife and I paddle quite a bit and would love to meet up with anyone in the area that's into the sport. There are a few FB groups, but it's mostly tourist/recreational paddlers that can't last more than a couple miles or can't even stand up lol.

We've only been seriously paddling for a couple of years, but love the sport and paddle 3-5 times a week. We literally can't get stuff done around the house because we're always on the water.

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Gear Talk / Re: Paddle length question

« on: July 30, 2019, 12:24:59 PM »

I took some measurements and ended up taking about 3 inches off. I used the method in my opening post, just out of the water from the bottom of my board. My board sits lower in the water with me on it, so I still have room to trim some more if I need to.

After going out on it a few times, I can definitely tell a difference in my shoulders. I'm going to stick with this length for a while and see how it feels long term.

Everyone's advice was very helpful. Thanks again.

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Gear Talk / Re: Paddle length question

« on: July 26, 2019, 08:53:55 PM »

clogs are thin underfoot, by design, so require a shorter length paddle than normal

What do you mean by clogs?

Also, I shortened my paddle by three inches. This brings it to a total length of 82.5” or 83”. I’m going to be on the water for a while tomorrow so we’ll see how it feels now.

Thanks to everyone for the advice. I appreciate it.

7

Gear Talk / Re: Paddle length question

« on: July 26, 2019, 08:10:02 AM »

There are many variables dictating paddle length, some of them mentioned above.
Longer arms can have a big impact on your paddling technic, if you are in fact taking
advantage of it, as it allows you to have more leverage on the paddle by
Having your bottom hand lower on the shaft and closer to the water.

One of my boards has a recessed deck. paddling almost at water level allows
Me to use a paddle 3.5 inches shorter. The difference is very noticeable.

One other observation, you mentioned having the KaiZen with what I assume
Is the 98 square inches blade size, now that’s a blade size larger than what most
Folks can handle, let alone a blade design of the kaizen with its strong catch.

So unless you are a very large individual with a physique of an Orangutan I’d
Look into a smaller blade size as another remedy. After much experimentation
I found that a large blade sizes have a similar effect of using a too long shaft.

What Burchas has said is making sense to me. I'm 72" tall but my wingspan, finger tip to finger tip, is a few inches longer than that. I'm very strong (500+ deadlift and squat, 365 bench) so I can handle the larger blase size, hence why i bought it. Learning to paddle properly has got me thinking about moving to a smaller blade size in the future, but I'd like to get my technique down a bit more before I start changing it up too much. As of right now my stamina is non existent when paddling correctly for speed/distance. I've left off the weightlifting and am focusing on cardio lately to improve my stamina.

Shortening the paddle length needs to happen as I don't want to hurt my shoulders. I can definitely feel it after a paddle session. I suffer from previous shoulder injuries and am due for a minor surgery on my right shoulder this winter. Not so much joint related as muscle (aggravated SLAP tear, been bugging me for a few years).

I feel like the takeaway here is "whatever works for you" lol. Is it safe to say that having the paddle handle at shoulder height w/blade submerged is a good starting point to work with? This is kind of why I was asking about having longer arms. Should I go shorter because my arms are longer? or vice versa?

Sorry for all the questions. Just trying to get all the info I can before I make my cut. Can't go back once I do

8

Gear Talk / Paddle length question

« on: July 25, 2019, 10:26:42 AM »

I found this while searching for ways to determine proper paddle length after reading a lot of older posts when longer paddles were trending:

I have a pretty good technique for length that actually takes things that matter (like board thickness) into account. This technique was handed down to me from my Australian distributors physiotherapist (who is also an avid paddler); he recommends the following: Stand on your board with your paddle to your side with the blade submerged to the blade/shaft joint; at this point the top of your handle should be parallel with the top of your shoulder. I've found this technique to work well for everything flat water related (I use just a bit overhead for the surf). Basically I think you can throw all that 8" etc. rule out the door, all those older techniques might be a good starting point but they leave too much out.

My question is this: For someone with longer than average arms (me) would you add or subtract length to improve paddling efficiency for speed and distance? I've only been SUPing for a couple years and am just now learning proper paddle stroke technique. I definitely feel like my paddle is too long (I have the Blue Planet Kai Zen V1, 98" blade, top of handle cut to my wrist with arm straight up over my head).

Any tips or advice on current methods or best lengths (long or short) to avoid injury would be appreciated.

Thanks!

9

Gear Talk / Re: Sunova or Infinity

« on: June 27, 2019, 07:32:17 PM »

The advertised 32 lb  weight may have been right on if your 33 included fins and leash. You know those heavy leashes.   

No leash, but I did have the fin installed. It’s carbon fiber and very light. Regardless, it’s much better than what I had before.

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Gear Talk / Re: Sunova or Infinity

« on: June 27, 2019, 12:18:04 PM »

So, a few things i immediately liked about the board:

1. Flat deck surface (non-recessed standing area). I'm a big guy, and I have cracked the edge of a board with the paddle handle that had a standing area recessed about an inch. Lower center of gravity, I know, but I like this better.

2. Wide tail. The pic doesn't do it justice. The tail is very wide and adds to the stability, a plus for a guy my size.

3. It handles side chop well. I'm not the best paddler by any means, but I am outperforming myself on this board already.

4. Aesthetics. It looks better in person than in pictures.

5. Weight. Advertised at 32lbs, mine weighed 33.6lbs before I put it in the water for the first time. That's 10+ lbs lighter than my last 14' board. It feels like a massive difference.

6. Overall stability is great. I can't believe how much easier it is to stand and move around on this board.

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Gear Talk / Re: Sunova or Infinity

« on: June 26, 2019, 03:52:12 PM »

I got the SIC Okeanos 14. Loving this board. Thanks for the advice.

12

Gear Talk / Re: Sunova or Infinity

« on: June 11, 2019, 06:18:35 AM »

If you live in Destin it wouldn’t harm to demo the Yolo tr14.  Available in 27.5 and 29.5 widths I think. They have a lake behind the store for demos. If you want to custom board in Florida google flying Fish board co.   

I appreciate your input, but I'm not a fan of YOLO, which is why I chose BOTE. I regularly attend demo's with BOTE and am good friends with the FWB store manager, Matt, who used to work for YOLO. As for the TR14 specifically, it's a flat water design and I want to be able to handle open ocean.

I'll look into flying fish board co. Thanks!

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Gear Talk / Re: Sunova or Infinity

« on: June 10, 2019, 09:01:45 AM »

Thanks everyone for your comments. I've only been paddling for a couple years and am still unaware of everything that is available out there. I do value quality, but as Burchas has pointed out, price does not immediately equal performance.

You all are a wealth of knowledge and information. Thanks!

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Gear Talk / Re: Sunova or Infinity

« on: June 10, 2019, 08:58:07 AM »

Then imagine what extra couple more will feel like

Can you share some links to unlimited boards? I'll take a look, just not sure something so long as to require a rudder steering system is something I'll like. I enjoy moving around on the board and doing the kick turns, occasionally surfing a wave in to shore.

So my suggestion is to go with something like an SIC Okeanos, you’ll save
1.5k in the process and get a board that has those same nice features a race
Board has shape wise, a 28” wide stable platform with tough construction
Only 4LBS more.

I have never even heard of this board. Definitely looking into it.

15

Gear Talk / Re: Sunova or Infinity

« on: June 07, 2019, 01:01:19 PM »

What is your motivation going with a 14’ race board? Are you looking to compete?
If you’re not looking to participate and compete in races you’ll be paying a steep
Price tag for not much of boost in performance.

At 265LB you really qualify for the unlimited board class and I suspect it will serve
You well beyond the 14 footers could, both performance and fun factor, all for about the same price. I thought it’s worth mentioning.

I can handle 27" width no problem. I live in FL, between Destin and Pensacola. Little town called Navarre. Most of my paddling is done in the sound/bays and in the Gulf of Mexico. I want a board that can handle open ocean. I don't want to limit myself to just a flat water board as that is primarily what I have now (I have four boards, all recreational BOTE brand. 12' HD, 12' HD Lowrider, 12' traveller, 14' traveller).

The first board I bought was the BOTE HD Lowrider. It's basically a surf-style SUP with a small displacement nose, flat top, and mild concave. 12'x29"x5.5". Max capacity is 290 I think, so my experience in any type of chop (even very small) was water coming over the nose, adding weight, and destabilizing the board. This made it very difficult for a guy my size to manage. After much thought and consideration, I stepped up to the 14' board I currently use. It's a touring design with a large volume displacement style nose very similar in look to both the blackfish and sunova.

Those extra couple feet and the difference in shape are like night and day for me compared to my other board (now my wifes lol). I do want to race, and I have looked at the unlimited boards, but I don't think I'm ready to commit the space necessary for an 18' board lol.