Messages

1

Training, Diet, and Fitness / Re: Paddling with Cervical Stenosis

« on: August 26, 2016, 07:11:29 PM »

Hi Gramps

Sorry to know about your cervical issues. At which level do you have stenosis?

Thanks.  I had an MRI of my spine and the Dr. simply said I had stenosis in my cervical spine; he didn't suggest any restrictions in my activities.  I'll ask for a more detailed description if the new paddle doesn't help.  It's arriving today, so here's hoping it will help.

Please keep in touch if the paddle change doesn't help. Cervical stenosis doesn't provide much room to play around. Spinal cord up by the neck is pretty thick and cervical vertebra quite small. If your cord/nerves in that region are compromised, you might start feeling weakness, tingling or numbness on the areas served by them.   
Where you report pain might have to do with gross weakness of all cervical muscles, relaying their function to other muscles that are quite busy with the paddling stroke.

2

Training, Diet, and Fitness / Re: Paddling with Cervical Stenosis

« on: August 21, 2016, 10:52:47 PM »

I've been diagnosed with stenosis in my neck.  Paddling is starting to cause me pain in my neck and across my shoulders and between my shoulder blades.  I don't have pain in my shoulder joints.  Any one else dealing with this?  Any suggestions?  I didn't have this pain the first couple of years of paddling.  I did upgrade to a new board and paddle last year, so maybe I should go back to my old crappy equipment.   

Hi Gramps

Sorry to know about your cervical issues. At which level do you have stenosis?

3

Training, Diet, and Fitness / Re: Which sport has the fittest participants?

« on: July 16, 2016, 08:39:05 AM »

This question reminds me of the birth of Ironman Triathlon. A question arised...

Who is the fittest? Swimmer? Cyclist? Runner?  Ah, let's do those three, one after the other, and the winner will be the fittest athlete ever...or so they said. And they did it, maybe 10 fit guys...or so. And they did it again, and again, and it caught on the collective mind, became what it is today.

So, the triathlete was the fittest. Really?
Ha.
Tell this to a Crossfitter, or a Decathlete, or a winter Biathlete!

Every sport has the fittest participants, for the task at hand. Specificity is a principle.

May all be well

4

Gear Talk / Re: Deciding on first SUP - Bic Ace-Tec Wing 11'0" vs 12'6"

« on: June 05, 2016, 11:07:14 AM »

So I finally got my Wing and was able to take it out a few times on the lake  this weekend. The weather wasn't cooperating too much (ie, 50km gusts most of the day),  so my paddling was limited to around sunrise/sunset.
 
While I can only compare this board to around 5 or 6 others that I've tried,  overall I am pretty happy with the choice. It seemed stable,  tracked well,  and allowed for decent speed.

One of the concerns brought up in this thread about the 12'6" wing was the weight. While I don't have any problems carrying around the 11, I don't think I would want to go much heavier. One minor issue with this board is that the handle isn't quite at the board's balance point,  which makes the nose dip when carrying. This might be a bit more annoying with the 12 6. That said,  at the lakes where I paddle,  I do think have a long ways to carry the board from where I park my car.

Spirit4earth,  I'd recommend this board, but not sure it would be best to take a little dog with you on it. There isn't a huge amount of available space and the surface at the front is a bit convex. Have you checked it out in person? If so,  you would see what I mean.

Thanks for the update!  How did the board handle in the wind?
I was a bit worried about where my dog would sit.  She's 11 pounds, and she wouldn't be moving around on the board.  I think she'd have to sit right by feet on the Wing.  I do wish I could find one around here to try.

Hi Spirit4earth

My wife has had her 11' Wind for over a year now. She loves it, is stable, easy to carry, relatively fast, carries the dog and more in the domed forward section, where I sprayed Monster Grip so the dog can walk around without slipping off.  Just change the stock fin for a real one.

5

Foil SUP / Re: Kai Lenny Downwind SUP Foil

« on: June 03, 2016, 01:29:00 PM »

This very interesting thread has been going for a month, or more, so far. Lots of talk of pros and cons on the design.  Foils on surfboards, kites and windsurf, even drones. Evidently, the foiling movement is hot.

Now, beyond sponsored pros, tweaked equipment and the like, are there any mortals foiling downwind on an sup, that we can see on video? Better yet, against a proven dw board in bona fide dw conditions?

May all be well.

6

Downwind and Racing / Re: What is faster on a downwinder

« on: May 13, 2016, 04:45:22 PM »

Whether or not prone or SUP is faster is a small issue compared to the damage to your cervical vertebrae sustains during long periods of prone paddling.  They don't call them misery sticks for nothing. 

Very sorry for your lesions at the cervical level Headmount. Once spurs have taken over, it's hard to deal with it. I feel your pain.

"Damage to the cervical vertebrae during long periods of prone paddling". I should add here, for example and personal experience, cycling hunched over on a time trial bike for hours on a daily basis, and speed skating, both of  which replicate the flexion at hip and concomitant compensation at lumbar and thoracic segments with counterbalancing extension at neck that is seen in knee paddle boarding. Even sitting in front of the pc at work, which we all know very well, among other similar positions, apply here too.   

These postures all face a common denominator, resulting in pain, which is trying to compensate with very few cervical vertebrae what the rest of the spine is ill positioned, and not conditioned, to contribute to. Read: Posture.

Yes, call me an outlaw, or a confused being, because i took up prone paddling and longboard surfing at 50+. Yes, i did it, and in the process, had to reevaluate what cervical mobility and back extensor proficiency meant. And i found that one can not compensate with less than 7 cervical vertebrae what 33 are meant to do. So, the whole spine, from the hip to the head, has to contribute to correct positioning. If one sits hunched over in front of the computer, and attempts to look to the monitor, the neck will scream. Same in cycling, skating, et al. The whole spine needs to be correctly engaged in correct posture. If not, one area will be injured. This is solved by positioning and training.

On the other hand, the paddling motion in surfski, oc1 and sup feel well for one's neck because they all replicate the posture that one brings from chairs and similar occupational postures. Take a deep, unbiased look at each discipline's posture.

In prone paddleboard positioning the spine is challenged to forcefully extend against gravity. If it's weak, the whole chest will lay on the board to rest. The head will need to be lifted, with a weak spine to stabilize, creating the above mentioned issues. In many cases, this is preventable. When bony spurs arise, it's over.

"Misery sticks"Prone paddleboards pale in comparison as misery artifacts to riding a time trial bike over 5 hours on aero bars.

May all be well and...pain less.

7

Downwind and Racing / Re: What is faster on a downwinder

« on: May 06, 2016, 03:31:41 AM »

Catalina has been won by a SUP for the last 6 years or so, and that a flat water race. Sup is faster in general.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Catalina Classic is a prone paddleboard only race. http://catalinaclassicpaddleboardrace.org/

 Catalina Crossing is another race that includes OC1 & 2, Surfski and SUP, but not prone paddleboard.

For a more meaningful comparison, check Carolina Cup event, specifically, the Graveyard event, where prone and sup are included on the same course, at the same time.

8

SUP General / Re: Surfski or OC1 to improve pladdling

« on: May 05, 2016, 01:13:11 PM »

Thanks for the replies... BTW whats the point of training on a prone board? would it increase fitness or technique better than surf?

Hi powermi

Look at it from the point of view of the sup paddler who surfs and also has a longer sup for dw, cruising, distance, etc. Same for whoever surfs prone.

9

Downwind and Racing / Re: What is faster on a downwinder

« on: May 05, 2016, 12:15:24 PM »

Standup is faster, in pure downwinders, where strong wind pushes on the sup paddler in a very similar direction to the wayline, and the paddler's body acts like a sail, helping the paddler to catch bumps.

I've found, though, paddling on my prone 12', that I can stay with my peers on 14' sup, on downbreezers with close period small bumps (where the body-sail effect is negligible), since it's very easy for me to catch those bumps. Also, on very confused sections where balance is an issue, i can surge ahead of my standing up peers. And also, if there's a wind shift resulting in sups having to favor one side paddling, meaning that the wind blows off course.

But on a perfect downwind course, sup will be faster.
*When reviewing the results from Molokai (thanks for the link peterp), please keep in mind that stock prone paddleboard is 12' and stock sup is 14' and under. And those 2 feet are meaningful concerning speed.

10

SUP General / Re: Surfski or OC1 to improve pladdling

« on: May 04, 2016, 11:53:22 AM »

Hi, Looking forward for improving my paddling and trying something different I am searching information about other paddling sports, quite nice to see that OC1 and surfski would meet my objectives. Now I am wondering some questions:

- are both biomechanical correct for the long term paddling? I mean over the years.
- as I have some storage problems (anything larger than 12" would be a problem) which one is the way to go?
- I am going to use it mostly on flat water 99% of time, are they going to perform similar?

Anyone here with experience mixing SUP and one of these sports? Thanks

Hello Powermi

Both are great hulls to paddle. As i have had and enjoyed both, Surfski longer than OC1, i would recommend Surfski because of:

Less issue for storing a single hull vs a hull and ama and iakos.
The wing paddle for the Surfski is very efficient.
Upwind, the Surfski is way faster, as well as in flats.
The core rotation, even though it takes longer to master, provides a great workout, is symmetrical (you won't favor the side of the ama).

If you choose OC1:

The single side paddling motion is more similar to sup.
Easier to balance on in rough water.
The seating area might be more comfortable.
Learning curve is a bit faster.

As all and any repetitive motion activities, overexertion, faulty technique will lead to injuries.

Did you mean you have less than 12 feet of storage space? Surfskis and OC1 hulls are well over 19 feet. In such cases, you might need to create extra space, and i don't recommend recreational kayaks 12 feet long. Much better to go the way of a prone paddleboard with such space limitations.

Demo !

11

SUP General / Re: Sharp pain between shoulder blades

« on: May 03, 2016, 02:14:22 PM »

Hi Dave

Sounds, from the description, your Rhomboids are the issue.

 If this is right, they are, probably, taking up slack from other weak muscle groups such as Trapezius, Serratus Anterior, or fighting against tight Pectorals (both Major and Minor), Cervical flexors, etc. Signs include, but don't limit to, Winged and Protracted Scapulas(rounded shoulders) inability to fully extend the Thoracic Spine from prone, protracted (forward) head, a Crossed Upper Syndrome, etc. I capitalized some names you should get familiar with.

Massage, cortizone shot, ice, etc, will clear the symptoms but won't address the cause. If other major causes are ruled out, (such as Nerve Impingement, Bone Spurs, etc)and the issue is muscular, when the pain is gone  (don't underestimate rest), get evaluated by an AT or PT versed in shoulder dysfunctions. Get strong, flexible and return to paddling slowly.

Be well

Wow that was quite a mouthful! Lol.... Like I mentioned I've already gone to the Dr and had x-rays and got the Cortisone shot and 3 deep tissue massages. None have helped,  it comes back almost every paddle. So I'd say yes it is muscular. It's a very sharp burning pain in a very specific spot every time.

What exercises are best to strengthen those muscles in my back that could be the culprit? It's really starting to limit my paddling, I'm good for 10-15 miles easily but yesterday I struggled with a 3 mile paddle and was damaged near crippled when I got home. ....

Dave

Hi Dave

Regarding exercises, it would be a bit difficult to recommend a responsible set of exercises (effective), without first evaluating you in person. There's plenty of exercises for the shoulder and scapula in the Web, but starting to perform them without knowing exactly what structures to address is pointless.

Since your pain is sharp and localized, and more to one side than another, there's tests that should be made to the structure before venturing into any exercises, because there's a clear sign of asymmetric loading.

For example, if you have even a slight degree of scoliosis, or are very lateralized in some kind of occupational or sports activity, the body will respond by creating certain asymmetric tension-length relationships between muscles, extremities, and their adjoining articulations to favor the necessary movement-often, at the expense of structural balance. This situation will create some tight and some weak length-tension relationships in those areas involved. Once paddling, specially in the adaptation phase, those asymmetries and unbalanced length-tension relationships will manifest as weak spots and pain.

Sorry if it sounds too complicated, but it is. The shoulder is a high mobility joint, unstable and weak to favor range of motion, which joins the skeleton at only one place, the sternum-clavicle joint. The scapula floats on the ribcage, balanced by many muscles. The ribcage itself responds to the spine structural balance, and, if the spine is out of alignment, everything else will follow suit.

So, i encourage you to seek the clinical attention you need, and when ready, resume paddling, not without first examining your technique. No shortcuts my friend.

Be well

12

SUP General / Re: Sharp pain between shoulder blades

« on: May 02, 2016, 05:45:55 PM »

Hi Dave

Sounds, from the description, your Rhomboids are the issue.

 If this is right, they are, probably, taking up slack from other weak muscle groups such as Trapezius, Serratus Anterior, or fighting against tight Pectorals (both Major and Minor), Cervical flexors, etc. Signs include, but don't limit to, Winged and Protracted Scapulas(rounded shoulders) inability to fully extend the Thoracic Spine from prone, protracted (forward) head, a Crossed Upper Syndrome, etc. I capitalized some names you should get familiar with.

Massage, cortizone shot, ice, etc, will clear the symptoms but won't address the cause. If other major causes are ruled out, (such as Nerve Impingement, Bone Spurs, etc)and the issue is muscular, when the pain is gone  (don't underestimate rest), get evaluated by an AT or PT versed in shoulder dysfunctions. Get strong, flexible and return to paddling slowly.

Be well

13

Foil SUP / Re: Kai Lenny Downwind SUP Foil

« on: May 01, 2016, 05:40:43 AM »

Very interesting and idyllic looking. Not against it, but, some questions arise:

How much foil area needed to lift up a paddler of, say, 200 lbs?

Kiters are a different story altogether, I feel. Can the kite itself be used to exert a lifting effect of sorts, helping the foil onto a plane?

How much wind and bump to make the foil work on a real, 14' + board? Why is he using such a short board?

And what if the wind dies, or shifts mid run?  Is the whole contraption paddleable to get back to shore, without wind / bump on the back?

Anyway, thumbs up for the innovators.

Be well

14

Downwind and Racing / Re: Awesome prone downwind

« on: April 23, 2016, 07:47:15 AM »

Awesome indeed! Those Commander paddleboards are smooth gliding hulls.

15

Downwind and Racing / Re: OC1 Vs. surf ski.

« on: March 22, 2016, 04:51:23 PM »

What is the difference regarding leg workout if any?

Negligible. Just check out the leg development of ski/oc/k1 paddlers vs cyclists/skaters. Not that legs are dormant, but not overly active beyond triggering hip rotation in ski/k1 or supporting the core in oc.