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Messages - liv2surf

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I am 95kg with full suit etc. I am of moderate finesse and atheletic ability. I am wing foiling on 105L (+10L/kg) Quatro WingDrifter Pro for 1y (was on 130L before that). On the 105L, I knee start but cannot balance/slog indefinitely while waiting for wind. If I go to 88L (-7 L/kg), how hard will it be and what method will I need to get up and onto foil.

Technique / Re: Prone paddling out over breaking waves
« on: September 20, 2021, 02:20:34 PM »
I have used method B for years (which is a variation of method A). I have seen others use Method A and it does seem to have some benefits of not hurting paddle blade or chest and the shaft doesn't have a chance to swing out from stringer axis...but B is my go to method.  The Supboarder Pro method looks interesting but tough for two reasons 1) having one of the hands needed for paddle and board and 2) pointing nose up and trying to ride over the whitewater.   From surfing (and SUP) experience, trying to ride over whitewater (instead of having it roll over you) acn be disasterous when wave pushes more than those shown and throws you onto your back with the lip. Also, seems if your hand slips off rail due to holding paddle and board you can get the board pushed into you face by white water. I guess this is the toughest thing about getting back outside on a SUP.

Great pictures. Great story on a number of levels. I think most of us have spouses who don't share our passion for water/wind sports or at least don't participate - so this is very cool. Also, amazing to see someone -- of any age -- but especially an adult -- to get hooked on an awesome sport like wing foiling without having been involved in one or more of the 'gateway' activities. Have fun with it, so cool. Congratulations both!


Great thread, great comments. I am working on the same challenge of not losing energy of wave. I see others having more success all around me (they don't seem to be pumping). I want to harness more wave energy (ideally without pumping).

I really liked the comment about getting the foil higher in water (I guess this has to do with decreasing drag of mast and/or getting foil wings nearer wave energy). When I do this I notice it has a huge benefit for wave riding. I notice it as more speed and glide. So I think my problem is not enough speed and glide.

I also liked the comment about cutting back to stay on the face of the wave (and not get out in front of the wave). When I am able to do this it helps. I am better turning to toeside on my strong side (left foot forward), than riding toeside with right foot forward.

I will also try to incorporate the comments & video about pumping technique.

Wingsurfing, Windfoiling, Wingfoiling, Wing SUP / Re: Mast length
« on: July 13, 2021, 05:46:34 PM »
Fascinating discussion of mast length.

I went from 65cm (Project Cedrus carbon) to 75cm (Axis aluminum) to 91 cm (Project Cedrus carbon). My sessions so far focus on chasing  small swell (knee high) to huge swell (well overhead) in SF Bay (and occasionally small surf in ocean near HMB & Santa Cruz). I have been asking about how to harness more swell, especially the more common small to moderate-sized swell.

I love the feel of riding high on the 91cm .... but I frequently notice that I have the wings deeper than they could be. In other words, I think that in going from 65 to 75 to 91cm, that I am not riding with board 10 and 26 cm higher, thus, my foil has gone deeper. I do breach less in swell on 91 cm mast than 65 cm mast, for sure.

Some of the comments here suggest that having foil closer to surface captures more swell. This is interesting to me (since I am trying to capture more swell energy). This is almost certainly more relevant on a 18" foot swell than a swell that is 10 feet crest to trough. But, I am intrigued that maybe 91 cm is counter-productive for harnessing swell. Maybe I'll put the 75 back on (or grab an 85cm to experiment with).

I am currently riding Axis red fuse short (68 cm) with 1000 front and 440 rear. (Looking at HPS 980 with 400HA rear and ultrashort black fuse). 

Hi all, just wanted to let everyone know we have a new product out looking to fix the need for a ding free spreader bar on a kite/windsurf harness. Uses 2" webbing, metal hooks and our updated 2" Wing Ding(Free) Hook. Made some improvements to the shape and edge/slot radiusing. Made fully in Hood River, hook machining and sewing. 3 lengths - 8", 10" and 12". Choose the longest that will fit with your harness in order to slide it to the side further. Also folds over if you don't want to deal with sliding it when paddling/popping up. Should be easy to see if it will work with your harness or not, anything with ratchets or cam locks may need some ingenuity. Will stop that metal spreader bar from beating the #@*% out of your board!

What do you guys think?

Lots more info and pics on the site:

This looks great for wingers wanting to use a kite harness with "clips". I prefer to wear a simple 2" belt-style harness (seat belt material) and can just push the NSI hook to the side where I need it. I used the Maniac hook but I MUCH PREFER THE NSI hook because I like the way it folds over and how it grabs and releases the harness line. Congratulations and thanks to NSI for these products for winging.

Wingsurfing, Windfoiling, Wingfoiling, Wing SUP / Re: Axis Foils
« on: July 07, 2021, 12:21:51 PM »
I had been riding the Axis red standard fuse (765 cm). Yesterday I put on the short fuse (680 cm) for first time and was slightly faster and able to 'stay on' swell better. This is the hoped for outcome.... but I have to be honest I don't understand it. Any explanations for why a shorter fuse would be faster and allow me to 'stay on' swell better?

P.S. I am riding the Axis 1000/500 on 92 cm Project Cedrus mast.

Thinking of going to the 980/400HA on short Black Series ultrashort fuse for riding swell (what Evan from Axis recommended, I'm 90 kg).

dude, the 980 is the next gen 1000. It is an amazing wing.

I'm 90kg as well, I used the 1000/400 combo pretty much exclusively for ages then went to the 460 tail (or rear but I I prefer to call it a tail wing, just to give Adrian the shits 😀)

If you do nothing else I would suggest trying a 460 or 420 tail.

However I now mainly use the 980 and thoroughly recommend it, the speed and glide is insane, so addictive.

what water surface conditions (flat, swell, waves) do you ride in (now with 980)? ...and what 'tail wing' and fuse are you using?

Wingsurfing, Windfoiling, Wingfoiling, Wing SUP / Re: Axis Foils
« on: July 06, 2021, 11:02:34 AM »
I had been riding the Axis red standard fuse (765 cm). Yesterday I put on the short fuse (680 cm) for first time and was slightly faster and able to 'stay on' swell better. This is the hoped for outcome.... but I have to be honest I don't understand it. Any explanations for why a shorter fuse would be faster and allow me to 'stay on' swell better?

P.S. I am riding the Axis 1000/500 on 92 cm Project Cedrus mast.

Thinking of going to the 980/400HA on short Black Series ultrashort fuse for riding swell (what Evan from Axis recommended, I'm 90 kg).

Wingsurfing, Windfoiling, Wingfoiling, Wing SUP / Re: Axis Foils
« on: June 29, 2021, 10:41:27 PM »
I'm winging on 1000/500, standard fuse, 91 cm mast. I am looking for more speed for wing riding in wave & swell. Is 980 wing faster than 1000 (....but not too fast for riding swell)?

I am going to replace my metal hook with an NSI-style Delrin hook (buy from NSI or fabricate my own if theirs wont fit my 2", I think, seat belt webbing belt). I like that the single point of attachment folds over when climbing onto board (per a friend's experience) unlike my hook whose 2 attachment points make it stick straight and firmly out (which is what a self respecting kite or windsurf hook should generally do). Also, Robert from Blue Planet said better to have the retractable leash mounted directly to webbing). Notice my safety line on plastic buckle because I lost a hook and belt when the buckle opened (I don't tie wing to this belt so it wasn't a huge loss).

I replaced my metal hook (shown) with a NSI-style hook which I routed out of 1/2" acetal plastic (Delrin ®), not shown. I believe NSI has the hook with 2" slot now (their original hook did not accommodate 2"). I love my new hook. So much better than the metal hook, primarily because it folds over when climbing on board and sticks out when riding (both of these are perfect attributes fit for purpose).

I am trying to improve my swell and wave riding with wing foil (downwind and side-downwind).

If swell is legitimate (at least shoulder high in SF Bay or waist to shoulder high in ocean) I can stay on the swell almost as long as I want (e.g. I don’t fall out the back as quickly), but if swell is smaller I fall off the swell earlier than I’d like.

Trying to decide if I can solve with new equipment or if I need to focus my energies inward :)

What are some of the more important factor for riding swell and waves efficiently (below I list potential factors)?
  • Foil (subcategories: fast, maneuverable, lifty)
  • Rider & Technique (pumping, working the wing finesse, wave knowledge)
  • Mast (length, drag)
  • Wing (subcategories: balanced, drifts, other)
  • Wave (energy, steepness, height, speed, other)
  • Board (short, low volume, etc)

I roll both wingtips in to strut (partially deflated yet still rigid) and place in my Prius V car (until next session). Foil board (at the ready) rides on top.

I am type A for getting onto the water if and while there is wind... not so much for treating my gear après session - this system has served me well.

I try to dry partially (shake off excess water, hold in wind if I can be bothered - e.g. if someone to talk to) before placing in car.... but don't stress over this (have rubber trunk liner). I like to imagine imagine rolling is slightly preserving to the canopy material compared with rolling + folding. And if so, this would be the only "nice" thing I do for my gear.

KI "crack the windows" to ventilate car if hot or wings are wet or both. On wettest days (e.g. with rain) I might brings wings into garage, lay out (still rolled) and turn to get dry.

This 'system' worked amazingly well with Cabrinha Crosswing X2 with their svelte strut with separate inflation point.

My system will require tweaking with new Mantis wing with more typical fat strut (and single point inflation) which behemoth can be seen on top.  I may need to start folding wings and using bag like everyone else :(

Well, I love the performance of the Cabrinha Mantis wing! :)

I had my first session on my new Mantis 6.2m in ocean (SF Bay area with nice small ground swell running). I needed to find a light wind opportunity - wind was 12-15 mph (I was on Axis 1000 wing, 105L board, 91 cm mast, 90kg). Actually, it was a double session (was tired and had wing dry but two friends showed up and I went back out). Previously, I had a session on a borrowed 4m Mantis (in SF Bay) and didn't want to come in and return it.

I love the lightness and stability when drifting off the LE 'drift' handle and also the low end power (granted it is a 6m). Lightness allowed for jibes to be quick and efficient (even on 6m). I like the improved minibooms (new more oval shape and vastly improved more rigid connection to the strut compared to Cabrinha's previous). I love the instantaneous power adjustments allowed by sliding hand on the back miniboom handle and also the extra space on the front handle for hand changes. As also mentioned by lakemichiganwingfoiler, I did notice a little slippage of the webbing covering the handles (along the axis of wrist to finger tips/wingtip to wingtip) but it was not particularly bothersome (and I am sensitive as I have had grip-related fatigue issues with other wings). I have heard from a source and 2nd hand that Airtimekite may have a fix for this webbing slippage problem.

As flkiter mentioned, packdown is slow (due to small diameter connection of hose on one pump system). Ozone v2 (and I suppose others) really got this inflation-deflation right with dedicated large diameter ports on strut and LE. I need to relearn how to pack a wing. I have been putting my Crosswing X2 in car by keeping struts firmly inflated and rolling wingtips in to the strut (haven't used a bag in months. The fat fat strut on Mantis (and lack of independent inflation or clamp valve isolating strut) will require a new approach.

I like one handed flying for a little extra power on swell and waves but this 6.2 wing can not be flown off just the front handle unlike flkiter said the 4m wing can be flown. I'll need to consider to add a miniboom between the front and back handle to allow this (as I did for my Crosswing X2s).

Have enjoyed riding with NSI wingding-style hook (I made my own for 2" belt from 1/2" Delrin) and wish the Mantis came with dedicated attachment for harness line... but this too can be solved.

I am looking forward to receiving additional sizes of the Mantis (some day)!

Let us know if you find something that works.

I have the mantis 4.0 and really like it. However the fabric on the handles move, like rotate when you grip them, so you have to over grip causing forearm cramping. I am going to try to come up with a solution for that maybe taping them tighter on the handles?

I flew the 4m Mantis the other day and loved it. I have 4, 5 and 6 Crosswing X2. Mantis handles are a huge upgrade from the Crosswing X2 handles. However, I locked my Crosswing handles together with a 3rd miniboom which tied all 3 handles together. This is not needed on the Mantis as the handles no longer move laterally (front to back) on the strut. I loved it the Mantis.

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