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Messages - SUPeter

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Got around to turning a carbon adjustable paddle shaft into a new boom for a 6m ECHO.  A lot easier than I thought it was going to be.  Tubing size just needed shimming with aluminum tape.  All tubes are sealed so they wonít take on water.  I also added a carved and shaped piece of lightweight firm mini -cell to the end of the boom just inside of the rear cord attachment.  Took it out for a test today.  Boom feels much lighter.  Foam piece does not alter flight at all and I did not have the aggravating problem of the boom end sinking.  I also put rubber tubing over the canopy tension line.  It is very easy to increase tension by just grabbing it along with the boom.  I forget where I saw that but itís a great idea.  I only spent 20 minutes on it since the wind cranked up to 25 kts and I stepped down to the 4m.  Looking forward to further testing.

Just what I needed. Thanks for the video.  Thanks for all the other tips.  These "problems" that I noted probably only become more apparent on the 6M Echo.  Just the size and weight of the boom relative to the amount of wind a 6 M is used in, I guess. As I said, with practice, the twitchiness went away.  I will be definitely making a carbon boom, with a little extra flotation(foam), placed on the very end in a aerodynamic fashion to prevent unwanted tail sink.

I'm a little late to this thread but just having purchased a 6M Echo, I thought I'd give my first impressions.

Other than some homemade wings, the only wings I have used are Naish 4m (V1). Gong wings 5,7.  F-one Swings 5,6. BRM 5. Ozone Wasp 4.

Conditions- 10-18 kts, on and off.
Two initial impressions   1) I absolutely love the boom.  It makes transitions very easy and balancing forearm workload very nice.  and 2) I absolutlely hate the
boom.  That damn thing is heavy, especially in light winds.  What a stark difference from the F-ones.  Also very frustrating is the rear end of the boom wants to sink making dislodging it from the water somewhat of a problem.  The fact that the wing wants to turn turtle whenever it lays on the waters surface does not help either.   

While in flight I found the Echo to be a little twitchy.  In higher gusts it would have a tendency to dive if you positioned it anywhere beyond the depower angle of attack. Im sure this is only a matter of practice and by the end of the session, it was lesss of a problem.  The wing sailed well upwind and has a good deal of take-off power.  I will soon be fabricating an adjustable carbon boom from an old paddle shaft.  I just have to remember where I saw a video or pictures of how that was done.  Seems pretty easy.  Once thats done, things should get better.

Thanks everyone!  those are all great tips.  Went out yesterday in 30-35 knts  with a 5m wing, wishing I had a 3m wing.  Absolute chaos but ohhh, so much fun. Needless to say I was not going to practice tacks at all.  Just full on survival mode and getting some long foil rides with the wing flagged out.  I will just keep on practicing and some day I may make my  tacks look as smooth as most of you.

I have less than a handful of successful tacks behind me but was curious whether or not a large, thick lower aspect wing is any better or worse than a thin, high aspect wing.  Just want to better my chances going forward.  I have used both and do not seem to have any greater success with one over the other.

Foil SUP / Re: total geek out post on the GL210
« on: September 24, 2020, 04:45:23 AM »
One question remains: 
Does the actual wing template/profile remain the same from root to tip or does it change.  Another way of stating this is are they using geometric washout or aerodynamic washout? 
Aerodynamic washout- same wing profile throughout length of wing.  wing ends twisted down9negative)
Geometric washout-  Wing profiles change from root to tip.  no twisting. 

It would be fun to play with both methods.  I have only used Aerodynamic washout.

Foil SUP / Re: total geek out post on the GL210
« on: September 24, 2020, 04:26:38 AM »
I've played around a bit with washout and find the largest benefit being a more gradual modulation in lift.  Instead of the foil turning on and off with regards to lift while small changes in angle of attack are made, the changes in angle of attack are widenened and the onset of lift is slowed.  At higher speeds,  the outer sections of the wing can turned off limiting the amount of lift we need to fight to hold down.  As far as making the wing less prone to aeration when wing tips breach, I'm not sure.  Theoretically, less negative pressure at the wing tip means less air drawn in.  It could help?

Thanks all!  Very good insights here!!    It occurred to me after posting this that shimming the stabilizer might be what is needed.  The stab is quite large on his set up and any increase in AoA would be extremely noticeable.  I can remember how much lift I was getting when I first tried my current set up.  A little shim changed everything. Thanks again.  I'll let him know.

I'm really not sure where to post this but since my whole foiling attention is now on winging, I thought it might as well be here.  As some of you  know, I live in Maine.  Northern Maine to be more specific.  Foiling here is very much in its infancy even though this is my third year of appreciating its many joys.  Its even harder to believe that the only foils I have ever flown have been of my own creation.  Well that all changed last night when a future foiling/wingfoiling buddy brought his new Naish Hover 95l board(damn is that thing light)and his 1650 foil set up.  No wind, so we decided to continue his training behind my boat in hopes of getting him accustomed to his new rig.  Getting towed behind the boat on his Naish rig opened my eyes to the variance in foil design.  The Naish 1650 definitely was fun to fly and also very agile but I could not get over the fact that its top end speed was very, I mean very,  noticeable.  I could barely apply enough front foot pressure to keep that wing from breaching at higher(17-20 mph?).  This is entirely new to me except for the very first foils I made.  Upon looking and measuring the washout, It seemed like the Naish foil had maybe .5 degree or so.  This being my only explanation.  My last 3 wings offer none of this excess lift at even 20-25 mph, the limit of my little outboard.   While the Naish foil offered great low speed glide, its upper end speed seemed hemmed in and a lot less forgiving.  Is this normal for most production wings at higher speeds?  I just feel that wingfoing needs a foil that will allow great lift at lower speeds and not too much lift at higher speeds.   Still working on my next 52" wide +/- ultra high aspect wingfoiling wing experiment in hopes that these questions may be answered.  Until then I will enjoy the wings I have made, even more-so now.

Got to test the new boom in some very windy(20-30mph) conditions.  In winds this heavy, the extra weight goes unnoticed.  Transitions are much easier when not trying to grab those tiny handles.  Balancing power is also an added benefit.  I found my  forearms and arms much less fatigued  than they were when using just the handles.  I could move both hands back a little giving more equal pull distribution rather than my back hand getting the majority of the force.  I am definitely going to use this boom mod more often than I had first imagined( long downwinders only) .  When wind moderated, I could easily fly one handed on my toe-side.  Very restful. I think a Duotone Echo may be in my very distant future.  Now to start trimming away any excess carbon and get this mod down to its lowest weight possible.  I will also be watch for any wear spots caused by this contraption.  I have padded it out very nicely and actually feel as though splinting the boom will prevent that problem of unwanted seam failure on a lot of F-ones. 


I'm glad i was able to keep this build lightweight.  Very rigid, very strong. It works on both my 5M F-one and 6M F-one.  Testing has been good but the real wind comes today and tomorrow. Boom easily detaches to create a paddle.  As light as these F-one wings are, they tend to easily flip over when just resting on the waters surface.  The hollow paddle shaft helps by quickly filling with water and providing water  ballast keeping the wing stationary with the correct side down.  Upon lifting, the water rushes out in less than a second.  One of those unexpected benefits that I am already appreciating.

Wingsurfing, Windfoiling, Wingfoiling, Wing SUP / Re: Acrobatics
« on: August 25, 2020, 06:07:57 AM »
I just love how the wing gets backwinded and provides some lift while he completes the flip. 

I agree Paddlur!  I wish I didn't need to do this and I probably do not need to.  If it weren't for my wanting a paddle with me when far from shore, I wouldn't go through the trouble.  I also think a boom is easier in transitions than handles.  I swear, if I dont get this done soon, I will lose all motivation and just go back to working on my ultra high aspect wingfoiling foil.  This is what happens when wingfoiling has become the only pastime that matters and there is no wind.

All is good, the piece came off perfectly with no epoxy on strut.  Phew!    It is as stiff as I expected, and desired, since its true support comes from the inflated strut itself once it is strapped in 3 places to the strut.  I will be adding carbon tow bands for support where the pedestals which hold the paddle are placed.  Other areas where less strength is needed will be cut away.  The handles bend off to the side quite nicely and will be tied down to carbon fiber plate.  This should lock the structure down to the strut and will get the handles out of my way.  So far the build weighs next to nothing and I hope to keep it that way.  I will then complete this project and resort to exactly what PonoBill did with his quick and easy boom mod.

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