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Messages - ukgm

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1
It's a no-brainer: more people will make the move.

I don't think so. The market, drivers and buzz are completely different between the two in my view. I just think paddlers will have a short shelf life in SUP whereas surfskiers are more like kayakers i.e. long term lifers not driven by fashion or fad. Surf skiing has been helped massively by boats like the Epic V8 (making it manageable) but since SUP's biggest market is inland based (with the coastal market being quite small), you'll more likely see ex-SUP paddlers try something completely different.

I agree with most of the above - and YES, the V8 was a splendid move from Epic that helped EVERYONE. The Nelo 520 followed years after, and between the V8 and 520, there were 1/2 a dozen "beginner skis" that were super appealing to get people into the sport.

I agree with your view on the two sports too, but with one more factor that IS INVOLVED:
Imagine a person who doesn't paddle...
That same person who goes and gets into SUP with a 11x30...
That same person who eventually progresses to a 14x25...
That same person who races...
And then that same person who gets a little tired of SUP Racing...

Well, I have seen it myself:
Individuals who have followed the above path (almost to the letter), and then have found themselves getting into (and purchasing) either an OC1 or a Surfski (and even sometimes both to end up with only a surfski at the end).

Get people involved into SUP - it's good for everyone (including the Surfski World).
Get people involved into Surfski - it's also good for everyone (including the SUP World).

Heck, getting more people involved into water sports could benefit many different markets - eventually. Getting more people playing video games "may not".
. The only way I could see surfski prosper massively would be if it developed inland with events and participation. Because it hasnít means numbers will always be limited (in that sup downwinding or surf is in proportion to the rest of the sport). Funnily enough, I discussed with organisers how mass participation could work in the uk 3 or 4 years back and they werenít interested. They preferred the high skill specialised nature of surf ski races. Fair enough. At least they know their identity.

2
I doubt that anyone is looking at the prices of these elite items and choosing their activity on the basis of the relative prices.

I agree.

3
It's a no-brainer: more people will make the move.

I don't think so. The market, drivers and buzz are completely different between the two in my view. I just think paddlers will have a short shelf life in SUP whereas surfskiers are more like kayakers i.e. long term lifers not driven by fashion or fad. Surf skiing has been helped massively by boats like the Epic V8 (making it manageable) but since SUP's biggest market is inland based (with the coastal market being quite small), you'll more likely see ex-SUP paddlers try something completely different.

4
If I recall correctly, the Nelo boards originally came out at 3450 euros.
After about 6 months, that price went up to 3600 euros.
Looking at the Lightcorp website again, I am now seeing 3695 euros, each.


I know first hand that it's not Lightcorp driving that price change, it's Starboard. We're nearly into 'halo' product territory soon - if we're not already.

5
General Discussion / Re: SUP racing growing ? Uhm.....
« on: March 25, 2019, 01:21:46 PM »
Here in France, I am seeing a crazy number of racer dropouts as well.

On the other hand, and super excited to see this: there is a staggering number of people getting into Surfskis.

Interesting.  How about OC1s?

in the UK, a lot of the early serious SUP racers have now moved onto OC1 stuff instead. In 2019, the first OC1 open water national series will run (and it has had an inland winter sprint series for a few years now).

As for surfski's it has been growing slowly and steadily for a few years. It still only sees around 50 boats at most events but its stable and isn't seen as a fashion fad (unlike SUP).

6
General Discussion / Re: SUP racing growing ? Uhm.....
« on: March 25, 2019, 01:18:58 PM »
End of PPG is sad especially as it confines surf or BoP racing from the peak level of the sport to minor status. Aside from the largely irrelevant ISA race and preceding qualification, is there a significant SUP event in the world that involves surf and buoy turns as the major defining factor?

Heavy Water ? (admittedly, that's quite exclusive).
Thatís not really a significant event. Itís just a marketing oddity. 99.99% of SUPers wonít even be aware of Heavy Water. And itís certainly not going to be a model for amateur participation.

I was trying to be kind !  ;D (BOP style racing really is a dead duck)

7
General Discussion / Re: SUP racing growing ? Uhm.....
« on: March 25, 2019, 01:31:21 AM »
End of PPG is sad especially as it confines surf or BoP racing from the peak level of the sport to minor status. Aside from the largely irrelevant ISA race and preceding qualification, is there a significant SUP event in the world that involves surf and buoy turns as the major defining factor?

Heavy Water ? (admittedly, that's quite exclusive).

8
Sneak Peeks, Rumors, and Wish Lists / Re: Quickblade U-V 88
« on: March 25, 2019, 01:30:37 AM »
quickblade in my view is leading the paddle game at the moment and almost everyone follows or worse guessing.

For my money I rank Quickblade and Black project well ahead of everyone else. You have to pay for that quality though.

9
Sneak Peeks, Rumors, and Wish Lists / Re: Quickblade U-V 88
« on: March 25, 2019, 01:29:31 AM »
Yes, thank you Brexit for making US-made products so expensive. And itís going to get worse. But I guess that most Brexit-voters donít SUP. However, now that Brexit has started affecting the price of soccer balls, cigarettes and Zimmer frames, they might start noticing.

It wasn't solely Brexit. Prices had been climbing steadily year on year anyway prior to that. My point was inferring whether price inflation of SUP equipment compared to other sports like kayaking is an issue again.

10
Sneak Peeks, Rumors, and Wish Lists / Re: Quickblade U-V 88
« on: March 24, 2019, 02:25:35 AM »
Ok, so I doubt thereís any serious paddler who wouldnít be looking at this.

So, why ďUVĒ? And why ď88Ē? And is it just a vdrive with fancy construction (which would be absolutely fine by me btw) or something else?

Oh, and where do I get one? :)

And does it come in a size smaller than 71sq ins?

I had a brief exchange with Jim about it last week when it was officially launched and it seems really well designed. I might get one to test but I'll go for a smaller blade size as its going to really lock in the water. The exchange rate is going to hammer us over here though - I've just bought a new top of the range kayak paddle for roughly 2/3rds of what this will cost.

11
General Discussion / Re: SUP racing growing ? Uhm.....
« on: March 23, 2019, 01:00:20 PM »
There is a ridiculously simple reason for that. Surfskis are fast, 14' SUPs are not. Surfskis are fast even if you weigh 230 pounds. 14' SUPs are not. Eliminate half of the likely market from competition and turn the sport into a slow race and people won't do it.

I'll pass, the whole sitting down idea just doesn't sit well with me :D isn't there a sit-down zone?  ??? Maybe not, sounds reprimanding. How would you make it great again?
Replicating Gorge Paddle Challenge is highly unlikely.

Sitting down on a surfski is much harder than standing on a SUP.
Surfski's, Foils, Kiting and windsurfing all have learning curves that will deter most people. OC-1's and SUP's are fun the first time. OC-1's are expensive, not usually for rent and awkward to store and handle. SUP easy easy fun.

I completely agree with this. This is why supís Leisure class has grown so quickly as the price of admission in terms of both skill and a basic board is pretty low.

12
General Discussion / Re: SUP racing growing ? Uhm.....
« on: March 23, 2019, 05:56:14 AM »
Yeah, I used to sit-down paddle long before I SUPed. It never really felt right. Sitting down to exercise is a bit weird all-round in fact. I guess some peopleís physiologies suit sitting down and some donít. Plus, what I liked about SUP was the unique viewpoint. Sit-down paddling now feels like a retrograde step to me, even if it is faster and more efficient.

It's funny as this is the complete opposite for me. The main reason I started in SUP was that its physical conditioning was far superior to all forms of sit down paddling. It's woefully inefficient and slow though.

13
Gear Talk / Re: Naish 2020 Inflatable SUPs
« on: March 23, 2019, 02:16:41 AM »
It would be interesting to see a drone view from directly above when someone is sprinting in pure flat water on an iSUP vs a hard board to analyse the ripples that emanate from them.

I'm frankly amazed Starboard haven't claimed yet that the flex of their inflatable boards as being performance enhancing..........

I am assuming that this is a little sarcasm but if not take a look at the 2019 Starboard Airline iSUP video and you will see they are selling a feature they call Stored Flex Energy which launches you forward after every paddle stroke.

Some of my past research looked at such an effect with runners with lower-limb amputations who use the 'cheetah' legs. The reality is that theoretically the effect is possible but its reliant on the weight of the paddler, the orientation of any forces are being applied and crucially, the timing of all of this operating in sequence. It's also speed and duration specific. When you consider all of this, not only is it likely that Starboard would not have the resources or expertise to investigate this but even if they did, unless the board was designed uniquely for each paddler, it would nearly always be out of phase and in some cases could work against you. The likelihood is that in most cases, its just creating energy losses or the perceived effect is psychological at best.

14
I know that when Iíve been on team deals I got the board cheap. This meant I would sell it on at the of the season - rather than for what it was worth but merely just to cover those costs. When enough people do that, thatís why you see a suppressed price for nearly new boards as nobody will pay more as theyíll see such prices as a norm.

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