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Messages - FloridaWindSUP

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1
Hi All,

I've been using a Slingshot Infinity 76 front wing and 42 cm rear wing for windsurf foiling, and I'm interested in getting more into SUP surf foiling / downwind foiling / wing foiling.

I was wondering if anybody has had success using the Slingshot Infinity foil system for those non-windsurf kinds of foiling, and what front wings, back wings, masts, etc. they're using.

It would be nice if I could just change the little back wing or something and be good to go, but I have a feeling I might need a different front wing, as well. I'm 75 kg and I live in an area with light wind and small waves. Also not sure if any of the slingshot boards work as crossover for sup foiling and windsurfing foiling. Right now the board I'm using is a formula windsurf board that I think is too wide and clunky for any foil application other than windsurfing. I'd like a board that still works for windfoiling but could also be used for sup foil or wingfoil. 

Thanks,
James

2
Hi Guys-

I can provide some more details on the "special" SUP that Greg and I were using.

1. It's an Angulo 10'4 Surfa, which already had a mast track for windsurfing when I bought it. My modifications to it were intended to improve its windsurfing characteristics. I made the modifications before WINGsurfing was invented, but they fortuitously fit the needs to WINGsurfing.
 
2. My first modification was adding a center finbox. I was living in Massachusetts at the time and so was Josh Angulo, so the man himself actually helped me install the finbox. We put the finbox about 1' aft of the midpoint of the board; about where the daggerboard would be on a windsurfing longboard. Mounting a center fin allowed beginner windsurfers to stay upwind better when sailing. https://jimbodouglass.blogspot.com/2012/04/adding-center-fin-to-sup-for-better.html

3. The second modification was adding a flat rocker section and "step" to the tail, plus putting twin fins forward of the step, so that the board would release and plane on the flat rocker section, rather than gluing itself to the water. When I saw that the board did indeed plane and reached scary high speeds similar to a regular windsurfing board, I added front footstraps. I had good action videos of the board in planing mode and shredding waves, but Vimeo took down my account because of unlicensed music content.  https://jimbodouglass.blogspot.com/2014/03/angulo-windsup-and-exocet-cross.html

4. On an actual windsurfing longboard with a daggerboard, the daggerboard must be retracted to allow the board to release and plane. On this modified windsup, however, the center fin is small enough and far back enough (especially if I use a raked fin and put it at the back of the box) that the board can plane, or at least approximate planing, with the center fin still in.  It was sort of doing that a couple times in the video when I was using it with the WING. Top speed I recorded on my GPS was 18.7 kph, but that was just on my first "turn" on the board, and I think I went faster on my second turn. Probably in enough wind I could remove the center fin and get really fast planing speeds.

SUMMARY THOUGHT- WINGsurfing with a regular, banana rockered surf style SUP will generally suck (be slow and not go upwind well), the same way that trying to windsurf a regular surf style SUP sucks. But board features like a flatter rocker and a center fin will make it suck much less.

5. I'm very curious now to try to the wing on different kinds of fast boards / boats; sort of a "will it wing?" experiment. I want to try it with my 14x23 race SUP, with Greg's SIC bullet, with my 20' surfski kayak, and with somebody's OC1. 

-James

3
Downwind and Racing / Re: Maliko video
« on: September 26, 2019, 06:38:27 PM »
Awesome video gzasinets!  8) I look forward to your first foil dw video!

4
Revisiting an inquiry into board platforms that can be used for multiple foil sports, since I saw this 2020 offering from Fanatic:

https://www.fanatic.com/sup/composite-boards/foil/sky-sup-foil-ws

6'11" with a step-tail, and it looks like the mast track is wildly close to the front foot in comparison with most ws foil boards. Seems like an ideal shape for sup foil downwinding and wing foiling, but maybe awkward for windsurfing?

The Naish Hover crossover seems to have a more normal mast track to front footstraps distance.

https://www.naishsails.com/product/hover-crossover-

Any experience with either of these boards or speculations about their performance prospects? The characteristics I'm looking for are:

1. Playful smaller alternative to my current windsurf foil platform which is a huge 230x100 cm formula board.
2. Works for sup foil (most interested in downwind sup foil)
3. Works for wing foil in case I get a wing at some point

Right now I think #1 is the most important for me.

PS- I got to try WINGsurfing this weekend with my buddy's 5.0 Duotone wing. We used it on my 10'4 windsup first, then a 6'6 foil sup. Pretty easy on the first board, pretty hard on the second board. Low performance compared to foil windsurfing. When I wasn't taking a turn on buddy's wingading I was sailing circles around him with my 4.7 sail and foil-equipped formula board. Still, there's a lure to wing thing, and I like the idea of using a smaller board for my foil windsurfing that I could also use as a foil sup for downwinding or gentle waves.

5
Downwind and Racing / Re: Molokai to Oahu Race 2019
« on: August 02, 2019, 11:31:47 AM »
Well done Robert. I feel a bit like jello at the end of a 10 km downwinder, so it's crazy to imagine holding it together physically and mentally for 50+ km.

What time did James Casey finish in on his unlimited sup, and who was the second place sup?

I wonder if the sabre tooth fin on the foil sup board is to help it paddle in a straight line without yawing when not foiling. I would be inclined to use a more blunt toothed fin to reduce my chances of accidentally stabbing myself to death.

Do you think the specialized downwind foils are getting a lot better, or the just the riders are getting better, or both? Do the downwind foil improvements make it any easier for normal people to do downwind foiling?

6
The Shape Shack / How far from tail to put foil box?
« on: July 30, 2019, 09:26:59 AM »
I think I'm going to butcher my already-half-butchered 10'4 Angulo Surfa by putting in a track box for a foil mount. I'm calling it "half-butchered" because I already put a flat rocker section, step tail, and twin-fins on it to make it plane. https://jimbodouglass.blogspot.com/2014/01/sup-windsurf-modification-mufin-wave-fin.html That was fun for a while but now I'm over it. (Though it worked, the board was neither very loose on the wave nor very efficient at planing. I also have hardly any waves to use it in here in SW Florida.)

I'm thinking I'll route out the two finboxes I added in the last modification, and put them closer together and more forward to be the track box. I have a track base that came with my Slingshot foil so I think I can use that as the template to make sure I get the distance between the tracks right. (I've been windfoiling on my formula windsurf board with a tuttle box, but that board is 230 x 100 cm with the foil box very near the tail, and I'm pretty sure it wouldn't work at all for SUP)

I read that the distance from the tail to put the foil box on a SUP is dependent on the length of the board, but the guidelines that I've seen only go up to a board of 8'7 - 9'6 length, for which they say to put the center of the box 23-28" from the tail. I might chop off some of the tail and the nose to shorten my board down, though, which would skew the distances a lot.

Some other dilemmas that I'm having are:

1. Whether to leave the flat rocker section that I added to the board, or file it off.
2. Whether to chop off any of the nose or tail, and if so how much of each. It seems like chopping off some of the tail of the board might be an alternate way to give it a flatter rocker. The original Angulo Surfa had quite a bit of kick in the last foot or so of the thinned out pintail.   

7
The Shape Shack / Re: FrankenFoil
« on: July 30, 2019, 08:51:52 AM »
It looks awesome. Does it work?

8
Training, Diet, and Fitness / Re: Longer, low-intensity workouts?
« on: June 02, 2019, 08:47:37 AM »
Thanks for the tips, everybody. Seems like the consensus is that at least some longer, slower (but not too slow) paddles are worth incorporating in the mix for training aerobic base, fat metabolism, technique efficiency, etc. Worth trying, at least.

Good philosophical points, too, about how the optimal training for performance may not jive perfectly with what we  amateur athletes can find the time or the motivation to stick with in the long term. For example, I totally believe in the benefits of strength training, but it's not fun enough for me to prioritize into my mix of work, home life, SUP, surfski, and windsurfing. I finally had to admit it just wasn't happening and cancel my barely-used YMCA membership. I have a pull-up bar in the house so I guess I can still do pull-ups and push-ups.

9
Training, Diet, and Fitness / Longer, low-intensity workouts?
« on: June 01, 2019, 04:21:15 PM »
Everyone seems to agree that some high intensity training sessions are good, especially high intensity short intervals workouts. Certainly, people who ONLY do low intensity never seem to get fast, no matter how much they paddle. But I've seen some confusing and conflicting advice on how much, if any, lower intensity workouts to mix in with the high intensity stuff.

1. Some say that the bulk of one's paddling should be longer paddles at HR zone 3 or so, with only one or two high intensity workouts per week.

2. Others say that those long, slower-than-race-pace distance paddles are a waste of time that just makes you slow, and you're better off just alternating your high intensity workouts with rest days or weightlifting

Which is it? I've been following philosophy #2 for the last couple years and it has gotten me fairly fit and fast, but I wonder if #1 might improve my efficiency and endurance in ways that would improve my race performance. 

10
https://www.facebook.com/groups/188849561244166/permalink/1989354274527010/

I don't know if any of y'all have seen this, but it looks like somebody has built a really unique quad-paddle powered thing for an ultra long distance river paddle race.

Is there any consensus on what the most efficient and / or most powerful "drive" system is for a human powered watercraft? Is there any kind of pedal / paddle / propeller drive system that's better than rowing or kayaking? Now that hydrofoils are getting better I wonder if pairing the right human-powered drive system to a good foil setup could make flatwater foiling practical for more than just a frantic sprint. In my mind I can imagine some kind of "dolphin drive" system with a bicycle chain inside the mast of a foil and an asymmetrical gear inside the fuselage that would flap a dolphin-like rear fin for propulsion.

11
The Shape Shack / Re: Glassing the sharp part on a cutting bow?
« on: April 28, 2019, 07:58:02 PM »
Thank you!

12
The Shape Shack / Glassing the sharp part on a cutting bow?
« on: April 27, 2019, 06:13:17 PM »
How do you do a glass repair on something that comes to a sharp edge, like the knife-like bow on a Hovie race sup? It seems like it would be strongest and most resistant to splitting again if the glass were folded over the ridge, rather than having the ridge be a seam between two pieces. But I think if I tried to fold the glass at that sharp an angle it would peel back up before it hardened. Is there a way to clamp it while it hardens but not have the clamp get stuck in the epoxy?

Thanks,
James

13
Gear Talk / Re: Help me decide on my next downwind board
« on: April 24, 2019, 01:09:39 PM »
I think the JL Rail is way more your style.

14
Ok, thank you all, this is helpful. I've been thinking about getting a more sup / surf oriented board to mount the foil on and maybe try the upwind / downwind / gentle surf thing without the sail. If I had unlimited funds I might try it on this wind-sup board. http://exocet-original.com/en/windsup-ride-8-11.php

15
Foil SUP / Practicality / conditions thresholds for downwind foil sup
« on: April 10, 2019, 04:13:09 AM »
I've recently been playing with a Slingshot Hoverglide Fwind 2019 setup on my windsurf and really enjoying it. I think the foil is usuable for surf sup, too, though I might need a larger front wing (Infinity 84 instead of the Infinity 76 that I have).

What I would actually be most interested in doing though would be foil sup downwinding. I think I would need a different board for that because the shape of my windsurf is all wrong for paddling and catching waves (230 x 100 cm / 7'6 x 39" wide formula race board with the finbox all the way at the tail). Before I look at a new board purchase, I want to get some perspectives on if downwind foiling actually works for amateurs in real world conditions.

How much wind and what size bumps do you need to get up and stay up on the foil for a reasonable amount of time? Do you need, like, 25 knot Gorge / Maui conditions or can it work in 10-15 knots with less than waist high bumps?

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