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Messages - obxDave

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Today's light wind session using the 6M Echo and same gear as in the video above.

Looks like the wing luffs really nice just gripping the front handle! I still do a front-boom grip just because I can repower the wing a lot faster. Are you getting more used to not catching the tip on the 6m?  Iíve gotten better at it, but as soon as I go from a few sessions on the 4m back to the 6m, I need 10 min  to ďreaclimateĒ!  Are you using a GoPro 8 or Max on that Tracer mount? Iím surprised itís not horizon tilt correcting.... 

My legs would burn up in about 10 min if I didnít switch my stance frequently :P

Wingsurfing, Windfoiling, Wingfoiling, Wing SUP / Re: Carving 360's
« on: June 28, 2020, 02:15:54 PM »
Very first full on-the-foil 360 completed yesterday with some actual exit speed  :). Sorry no camera at the time. Modestly Powered with a 5m Echo, Moses 1100/450/72cm mast and 5í1Ē/90l  FSM board.

I still finish off the foil and crash a lot doing this trick, but getting first clean one was worthy of the happy scream of joy (far from anyone to see or hear).

I heard and saw it (coming toward you from outside Big Penguin Island).  Good scream, great 360 exit!!

I stand corrected!  (Iím in my own little world out there.....) When your Axis 1150 arrives we should do a side by side swap comparison with the Moses W1100 and the Gong Veloce XL

Wingsurfing, Windfoiling, Wingfoiling, Wing SUP / Re: Carving 360's
« on: June 28, 2020, 12:42:09 AM »
Very first full on-the-foil 360 completed yesterday with some actual exit speed  :). Sorry no camera at the time. Modestly Powered with a 5m Echo, Moses 1100/450/72cm mast and 5í1Ē/90l  FSM board.

I still finish off the foil and crash a lot doing this trick, but getting first clean one was worthy of the happy scream of joy (far from anyone to see or hear). And now that Iíve publicly divulged this info, I probably wonít make another clean one  for some time to come :P

General Discussion / Re: Getting cuts to heal quickly
« on: June 26, 2020, 04:29:35 AM »
Well tomorrow will be 4 days and already pretty well closed up today with nothing more than daily cleaning/redressing. Iíll take a few extra precautions per the recommendations here just to be sure. Probably due for an updated tetanus shot, unless they have become taboo. Donít keep up much with all the latest medical minutia

Living on a sand bar, Iíve seen plenty of the local surfers and kiteboarders limping around with Staph infections over the years so I donít take it lightly. Some of these kids donít even own footwear  :o so itís easy to see how they end up infected

Never mind. Beat my record in 15 mph today. 6m and 2100 sq cm of wing. Amazed.

Thatís cookin!

I hear rumor that there will be a carbon boom offered at some point. What Iíd really like to do as a project is make small carbon fixed boom with front end adapter, and then have fixed extensions for larger wing sizes. The only reason for that would be air travel which wonít be happening soon,.....and to have that make more sense Iíd guess Iíd need to see where these inflatable boards are headed. Mostly wishful thinking.

One of my 3 booms is the old round version. Everything fits the same including the wing tension line. My custom GoPro Max extension piece only fits the old boom   :P

General Discussion / Re: Getting cuts to heal quickly
« on: June 25, 2020, 10:38:56 AM »
Oh, regarding the brand... When I first needed something like that, people were recommending the DuoDerm brand, since thatís what Doctors use. (It worked great) But since then Iíve also tried consumer brand ones, and didnít notice a huge difference. Just make sure that the gel part is big enough to cover your entire cut.

Seems 4Ēx4Ē is a fairly standard colloid bandage size. Sorta wonder how it will work being walked on all day or out in the water hopping around on a board? Maybe Iím just being too aggressive about getting back on the water quickly. Have a few more days till the winds are good for wing foiling anyway.

Iíve always heard of the Superglue option but canít say Iíd be excited to try it. Maybe just go with the colloid bandage if I think I still need it and put up with some wetsuit booties to make sure it stays on.

Thanks for the input!

So I officially have some riding time on the 5 and 4m Echo in addition to the 6m. Same great performance improvements. Nice size overlap without being too close. You could easily do a 7/5 or 6/4 combo.  The 6/5/4/3.3 with 3 booms was a total splurge for me.

I really like the idea of just rigging 2 wings for most sessions since our wind is usually all over the place.  Just grab the one that works best and go. Maybe a sandbag and UV cover to use with the spare.

All the sizes have this leading edge squeeze caused by the boom front end adapter. Not as bad with the 4m. Iíve already gotten used to it and figure itíll be a non-issue. Weíll see

General Discussion / Getting cuts to heal quickly
« on: June 25, 2020, 12:42:36 AM »
Every few years I have the unfortunate luck of stepping on a piece of glass (or sharp object) playing in the water and then worrying about infection if I get back in the water too soon. I do the full clean out, H-peroxide and anti bacterial ointment routine, but getting the cut to seal up quickly on the sole of your feet always seems to go a bit slow. Curious if there are any recommendations on products (or tricks) to help things along? Iíve seen a few things on Amazon like 3M Vetbond and others that seem to get ok reviews. Any advice?  Thanks!

Getting caught in the impact zone with a wing is not good.  If you can, fly/ throw your wing over the wave that helps but that's not always possible, like if you wipe out right in front of the wave.  As mentioned in the video, my boom came off and my wrist leash broke when I got worked by a big whitewater wave.  I lost the wing and someone collected it two miles downwind and I finally got it back two weeks later.  So my tip: avoid getting worked with a wing and get a stronger leash than what comes with the wings.   Same for shorebreak, if you can't paddle out through it quickly during a lull, avoid big shore break.

Yep, my biggest fear is doing a whitewash tumble with a foil rig on a fairly short 8 ft coil waist leash. I think you mentioned using a ďreal leashĒ to deal with that situation. I have one and definitely plan on using it for ocean side riding.

Iíve heard some other riders mention the ďwing throwĒ method. Sounds a bit sketchy at best. Heck, those little leash attachment loops sewn into the leading edge donít look like theyíd survive very well even with super strong leash on your wrist.

Our oceanside surf conditions in the Outer Banks for wind sports (kiting, windsurfing, and Winging) kinda  suck compared to the west coast or Hawaii. No decent outside reefs here. Mostly shore break at high tide and close out sets on small close-in sand bars at low tide. Wing foiling winds usually result in pretty messy looking blown out short period waves in onshore winds. Side shore and slight side off winds might work ok. I figure I will stick to lighter side-on to side-off winds and low tide waist high max conditions for a better chance of not getting worked!

One good thing about Kites, theyíre pretty easy to keep in the air and they can haul you out of the impact zone quickly. A wing is definitely a bit more of a liability than an asset :o

Thanks Dave,
I got to try the 6M Echo wing for two days in a row.  You are right, it's a great wing and it luffs well on the wave, it's a game-changer for lighter wind days for me.

Nice setup with the boom extension, I might try that as well.  I just ordered the GoPro Max, what is your workflow for editing the video?
Stoked to hear the 5'8 Carver is still being used!

Sorry for the topic diversion but here is my Go Pro Max work flow (Iím not a tech geek so excuse any mistakes)

1.) I use the GoPro App on my IPad Pro to link with my Max camera. The app will link with any of the  GoProĎs back to a Hero 2.

2.) I can view all captured video in low resolution format directly on the camera from the app on my IPad without having to download any footage. An hours worth of video is typically broken down into ~8 min clips. The App will allow me to play/scroll the video clips and do a quick-and-dirty-on-the-fly reframe to figure out what I want to keep.

3.) The App allows me trim out and save any time segment I chose. For that hour of 360 video, I might save 10 clips totaling 4 min, just as an example. Those ten clips get saved to the App on my Tablet. I have not done any official reframing yet. Itís still in 360 format.  No sense downloading all 60 min of video. Takes a long time, your hard drive fills up fast, and doing a full reframe for an hour of video is laborious.

4.) with the small 360 clips in the app, I now do the reframing. It sounds labor intensive but itís not that bad for the four min worth of video I collected. Easy point and slide. Itís really pretty cool to quickly spin to view at any angle you want.  After  Iíve reframed each clip and go to save it, it gets rendered as a traditional 1440\60 video clip and saved back into the GoPro app.

5.) Iíll take the rendered saved clips and finally save copies of them to my files on my IPad

6.) I do my final video edit using a standard video editor Luma Fusion on my IPad, where I can do all the typical stuff like slo-mo, titles, transitions, music/audio, etc

It sounds labor intensive but itís not that bad after a little practice. Even sitting through an hour of video goes fast because you can scroll through the timeline at 2-3x speed when looking at the raw low res footage on the camera card

Back on topic. Speaking of useful wing foiling training videos, I would love to see something dealing with two surf issues;  1) techniques for getting out past shore break conditions and 2) dealing with getting caught in the impact zone.  We mostly get to see all the cool stuff when things are going well. I want to know what happens to that pro rider AFTER he wipes out in the middle of the impact zone!   Maybe some overlap with SUP and prone surf foiling doís and doníts (?)

Here is the Duotone weíve been waiting for

Good luck keeping skin on your knuckles with that. Iíd also jam my fingers just about every time trying to do a quick regrab.  Maybe another 3-5Ē on the gap and I think it would work

Robert, you definitely convinced me that a pole mounted on a waist harness is not a cam mount option for me! Seeing that stuck between the boom and the wing was all I needed to see. I made a simple (quick and dirty)  short boom extension to mount a GoPro Max off the back of the boom. Just enough distance to give a reasonable view of the entire wing and rider without a huge amount of distortion.  Didnít seem to affect wing performance from my experience

I have no doubt you will love the new Echoís right away. Wonderful improvement. If a 61 yr old weak klutz like me can adapt to a 6m, you will be screaming on it in 10 minutes. Much better luffing and amazing how high you can point upwind with these Gen 2 wings.

Side note; your 5í8Ē Carver is still going strong with a local friend who joined us wing foiling this spring.

As far as i know Ken Winner is someone very attentive to details, so the end of the boom biting the leading edge deforming it cannot be a mistake. In fact someone told me it is designed not to let the boom move and thatís exactly what i noticed compared the first generation: the boom does not move at all!
Thatís my personal opinion and experience.

It certainly does lock the boom in even more, and that would make perfect sense, assuming no effect on long term durability. Might have helped if they just mentioned it somewhere in the promo effort if that was in fact the design goal. The radius is a perfect match on the original wings and all I needed to do to keep boom ďtightĒ over time was retie the knots on the boom adaptor retaining lines sewn into the leading edge

It is the "one fits for all" politic of the plastic boom end, used for different Leading Edge Diameters with  prehaps accepted disadvantages. Furthermore I think the Designers never expected to have to make a 6 or 7 m2 wing. ;)
True. Just surprised that it occurred with the small boom on the 4m as well. Maybe it was an intentional design change as Winged Surfer mentioned. Iím sure Ken understands leading edge durability a 1000 times better than me!

If the extra dump valve is near the wing tip, then itís a carry over from the kites. Some people like to open the tip valve, then roll the kite up from wing tip to wing tip. Not wing tip to center.

Wing tip to center, causes other side to unroll.
Its actually near the boom location so no real benefit to one way roll up. Again, maybe Iím missing something and it serves another purpose. No biggie, itís a simple valve and I just leave it closed.

If I find some time I think it would be fun to build up some single piece carbon booms either reusing the current molded ends (I think Ponobill did that) or modifying them,...even though the stock booms work just fine. A way to tinker :)

Itís raining and Iím stuck inside, hence the long post :P

So finally got my 6m, 4m and 3.3m Echoís. I have about 2 hours of total riding time so far on the 6m. That would also make 2 hours of total riding time on any 6m for me excluding a few minutes trying out a 6m F-One Swing. My only reference point has been the original 4 and 5m Duotones and about 90 minutes on a 5.3m  Nash S25. 

Just as advertised the Echoís have much stiffer canopy and leach tension over the originals. The funky tension line is easy to deal with and feels invisible while riding (unless my ďregrabsĒ are way off).  It pumps me onto the foil faster, generates lots more speed, screams upwind, and luffs way better than the V1 (I still prefer to  hold the front of the boom rather than the front handle). I consider the performance similar to the 5.3 m Naish S25 I owned for a brief time (discounting the size difference). Other than the standard handles versus boom preference brooha, there is still a bit more dihedral in the Echo than most wings,  though less than the originals. It doesnít mean diddly for jibing (they all jibe well), but it does make a difference for rolling in a tack. Swinging any lumbering 6m wing over in a tack takes (MORE!) heft compared to those teeny wip-around 4mís, which Iíve spent 85% of my time riding other than the 5m V1. They just donít respond as quickly.  I spent a fair amount of time just getting used to this big boy, but eventually got a bit more comfortable with it.  I could actually get the 6m Echo to go over on my first tries, although it did occasionally need some help to roll quickly enough. The F-One and Naish needed  major hand pushing help to roll. Maybe thatís just incompetent me.

The only irritating issue (which I knew going in) is the molded boom end that presses up  to the leading edge has a smaller curvature radius than the inflated  leading edge (for both the short boom on the 4 and the long boom on the 6). So it bites into the leading edge just a bit.  Really Ken? Hey, as long as it doesnít affect long term durability, no worries. No effect on performance. I wonít call it a real complaint yet, and there are some fixes I can think of.  The oval boom is a nice upgrade. The extra dump valve doesnít seem to be necessary at all, but itís there, so be it (unless Iím missing something).

The video is all with the 6m, which was really the challenge test for me.  The first hour session was 12-23 mph and there was overlap to ride both 4m and 6m. Only spent 20 min on the 4 (a bit underpowered) so not much to say yet other than it felt great and should do just fine in itís sweet spot. Even with enough overlap I completed the full indulgence and have a 5m Echo coming in a few days (something about being at that age of wanting to check out with more toys and less moneyÖ.).  No interest in the 7m at my 77kg.

If you want an all out luffing wing for surf conditions, or just like the simplicity of handles, by all means stick with the F-One, or the other great handle options. One other minor side note, booms have their minor hassle factor but I hardly notice it. I DO appreciate not having that to add to the inflate/deflate work load. I could inflate/deflate my 10m Airush Ultra faster than that Naish S25....

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