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Messages - FoilMad

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Foil SUP / Re: Another revelation about the Barricuda style Kalama board!
« on: October 13, 2022, 02:23:39 AM »
I can flat water the axis art 999 easily which I coudn't do with mt 6'0 x 21.5
Jeez Greg your prone paddle take offs in the chop are very interesting. It looks effortless with no wave power and it makes me wonder where this will end. Kane knee paddling up onto foil in the flat and the way knee paddling allowed him to unweight the board off the water was amazing. Maybe a 6'6" X 17" with volume the same as your weight or even a little less could easily knee paddle up in soft condition. Things are changing in DW fast.

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Hi Bill,

Just to be sure we are on the same track, the speeds you are talking about for the spencer brothers are wind powered where as the title of this thread and its contents are about wave powered. Free winging downwind refers to parking the wing and riding the bumps. Wingers chasing speed like Alex A are pushing 30 knots while the best downwinders on SUPs in the best conditions are averaging 26-27 klms.



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I can directly compare the NL130 to the ART 999 and say that the 999 is as fast but better glide.  This comes from foil SUPing some of the bigger waves in the world.  I would only grab for my NL130 if the waves were a guaranteed 12 feet.  Speeds ranging from 18 to 25 mph.  Mostly at Mavericks but also at Phantoms on the north shore of Oahu.  The ART999 has less pop or front foot kick with the 420 tail no shim than any NL GoFoil wing.  I weigh 85 Kg. 

Maybe some downwind guys are hitting 20 to 25 mph.  But please use exact numbers when referring to speeds.  The NL130 is a rock in big waves but the 999 has a wider flight profile.  I have found the 999 starts to stall for me around 12 mph.  Rather it sags and is a lot of work to recover.  Easy cruising speed is 15 mph.  With the right tail and board I have zero front foot pressure at 20 mph +

A downwind average speed for well experienced guys might be 20klms/h and a world class downwinder might average 25-26 Klms/h in 25 knots plus and best conditions possible from what I understand. 6s period wind bumps travel at approximately 18klms/h in open ocean for reference.

Guys downwinding the ART might have typical average speeds 18-20klms per hour which is below where you think your stall speed is. Your wing is designed for good speed and glide in minimal power. It has an aspect ratio of 10 so specifically suited to low power efficiency.  It seems after the takeoff you are riding swell in water so deep that it results in a in low accessible power circumstance. The NL130 has design characteristics for high speed control and turning. Fighter jets don't have wings like gliders.

Each to their own.




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I would think Downwind and pumping is on most hit list for direct comparison between the ART and the RS. For my list I would like to know how well behaved is the RS when overpowered. Seems like one of the main features of this new design is the pitch control which suggests well behaved even when pushed hard. The ART seems to scare many when pushed.

The ART is super high aspect but with a fuller profile i think to try and return some of those lower stall speed attributes and rideability of the more typical high aspects which it seems to have accomplished to some extent. It was designed for glide at much lower speed and combined with its flex it wont like rough water and higher speeds. This is based on first hand friends experience. I don't imagine people will be downwind racing on this wing but will be a good introductory foil for the light to medium weight downwinders .

I only weigh 65kgs so i didn't think i could push the p180 fast but this is not the case. It has incredible range so i expect its latest incarnation the RS1300 being the same dimensions but thinner will have similar bottom end but much faster. Friends reports are it turns better again than the P180 and the PNL185 and also pumps better. It was designed for downwind racing and will be at least very competitive.

I have prone surfed the RS1000 twice and it was very impressive. It was immediately home for me with great speed and incredible turning. For my weight i think it pumped as well as the much bigger nl160 but faster. I have ordered the wing and it will replace both the NL130 and NL160 winging in waves for me and will be my daily prone foil. To me the steps have made the foil very ridable for its chord and thickness, so fast but so well behaved from the very first wave. It has the same wingspan as the gl140 but turned so much better for me as i could push hard in turns. Impressed enough to order one immediately and bummed i am not riding it everyday already.

I will order the RS1150 for free wing and very small surf days.

Final comment is that increasing wingspan for me makes foils incredibly sensitive to turn and pump with chop and wash making the ride very technical. Practice diminishes the challenge to some extent obviously. 

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Hi Burchas,
In what specific riding circumstances do you wish to compare the RS foils and the ART999. In free winging downwind the ART has its place but i am not sure where else someone would choose the ART999 over even the Axis HPS series. The ART999 is 1m wide and flexes more than most wings. A beginner to intermediate downwinding wing. It may be of use in very small prone or sup surf if you goal is less turning performance and more pump then great choice.


 

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Wingsurfing, Windfoiling, Wingfoiling, Wing SUP / Re: The ART 999 Thread
« on: October 14, 2021, 02:11:25 AM »
Jeez bit rough Beasho, comparing a 2.5 year old GL release to other brands current models. The NL's were a big upgrade in speed and glide and they themselves are a year old now too.
The GL's were along way ahead of the pack for a long time. It took the Armstrong HS 1250 before they overtook the GL's and caught the NL's but only if you can handle the wing tip breaching issues of the HS series.

Axis have done well with the HPS but were following along behind before.

I do think if you are all about glide it would be worth studying the downwind races and their performances on different brands.

My context is for performance wave riding with a wing, SUP or Prone.

The ART looks clever but 1m wide.
Gofoil RS is the next to release but interestingly they didn't feel the need to go as high aspect as lift, Armstrong and Axis.

I pay full price for my foils unfortunately and am very interested in all brands next releases.




7
Looks nice.
Does anyone know the weights please.

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I weigh 65kg and with a gl180, 70 litre board and wasp 4 I can definitely foil in 10 knots on a lake. Hard to start but once up I can have fun. The wasp is stiffer than the fone and nothing like the naish. Maybe your 6m try on the wasp could have done with some air in it as the wasp was the stiffest out of the early wings and still holds up well against some of the newer wings. The handles were not good. Fone may have been better on the apparent wind but not low down. My opinion.

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Thanks Again for all the replies.
DWight your references are invaluable so i thank you very much. I have decided to go for a 70 litres 5'4" X 23 and I believe this will provide a better guarantee for light wind success.
I will report back on my learning experience when the board arrives as it may help someone else make an expensive choice.
Happy winging  :)  :)  :)
   

10
Thanks everybody for their help.

I would expect for my weight a surface start would have a minimum volume like 50 l for example (maybe its 60 l, who knows) and below that the board sinks to the point where you are now doing a sinker type start and much less volume would be easier for this type of start. Maybe 20 to 30 l. I am specific interested in a surface start for riding in the swell and waves.

Standing on a SUP in trying conditions is challenging when the volume of the board is your weight in Kg + 15 l but it becomes very easy when you retreat to your knees. I don't want to be winging with 80 or 70 l if it is only slightly harder to start on a board with 60 l. I just don't know if this tipping point for me is at 50 l, 60, or 70 l but i am guessing it is one of the three.

DW, I get from your reply that a surface start with 60l will be easy with experience and its just a question whether i can get there with just kite foiling and prone foiling experience. Have you or any of your fellow wingers settled on a surface knee start board that has a volume in litres that is close to your weight in kg? Would this be the light wind option or do you still retreat to the SUP for a percentage of conditions?

Thanks again.

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Hi All,

Background: I have been kite foiling for three years and prone surf foiling for over two years (Short board surfing for decades). I am 64kg and 179cm tall, located in Australia and am in the Ocean everyday.
My prone foil board is 30l 4’5″ and i can stand on it in deep water start stance but not get out of the water on it yet. It guess it will be useful later in my learning curve for a strong wind option. As I don’t SUP foil I am looking for as small a volume board to learn on that will still allow me to float and start on my knees with the wing. I have seen the below footage of billy and this makes me believe i can buy a 60l 5’0″ wing board but would appreciate fellow wingers opinions on what is possible. It doesn’t bother me if it takes quite a few sessions to learn to balance and start as long as it will be consistently easy,with practice, to start on this size board. I don’t wish to buy a SUP first as I think this step can be avoided with some perseverance.

Thanks for your help.

bayareakitesurf.com/tested-f-one-rocket-wing-54-70l-by-billy-ackerman/

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