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Messages - sharksupper

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Tested again today, put on the Glide 25 tail, very powered up 5.0.  Water had 2ft chop, so speeds were hard to attain, topped out at 29mph again.

I'm going to push the Surf 60 to 30mph as a goal, but beyond that, it's just not a relaxing foil to ride, it needs to be fully powered at all times to keep flying, so no resting at all flying this puppy, you wear out quickly.

Back to the 120HA tomorrow but will try the Glide 25 tail.

Impressive sharksupper! The ease in which you get up on this wing in these conditions is disturbing...(my sleep that is :D)
Since you own both GoFoil and Lift and you're teaching as well, which system in your opinion will help progression easier/faster.

The GoFoils are great to learn on.  I have the Kai, IWA, M200/Maliko, GL210, and GL140.  Absolute beginners I put on the M200, fantastic all around foil.  When I was surfing the M200 I would hit 20-21mph on big wave drop ins!  The GoFoils have a trait of being very front foot loaded as they speed up, whereas the Lift foils are very neutral in pitch, even at speed they don't lift like crazy like the GoFoils.  Nothing better or worse about that, just something to know.  I really loved my GL140 for winging.  the Lift 120HA is a whole different thing, a bit harder to get flying and touchier on the handling, but the glide is really good, maybe twice as good as the GL140 on my thumb in the air.  If you already have GoFoil, they have plenty of good wings to progress on, no need to switch.  If you already jibe and tack in both directions and feel the GL series is limiting you, the Lift 120HA might be an option.  So many foils out there!!!!
Hope that helps!

Hey brother!  No worries.  I've found that it's the helping each other out and growing together that makes these sports fun!  ;D  I've taught and am currently teaching several people.

I can't say my advice is "right" or even the best way, it's just how I came to do things naturally.  My background is that I learned to surf foil a few years ago on a standup board.  I also windsurfed for 30years.  Both involve quite a bit of speed in the turns, so I was already used to going fast, mentally (it's kind of scary going fast!).  I do recommend as you get comfortable with foiling to push the speeds (in a straight line) and see what the foil will do and get used to a bit of speed and staying in control at speed.  The fact is the more speed you carry though the jibe (without blowing up that is!) the easier you're going to make the jibe flying.  First thing is first though, I learned to ride "toe side" or "switch foot" first, off the foil, then on the foil.  After that, the jibes came much easier.  You will either be jibing and ending up switch foot, or starting switch foot and ending up in your regular stance.  Yes, there are a few people who switch their feet and I have a few friends who keep trying to learn to jibe by changing feet in the middle of the jibe, I don't recommend this!  it upsets the board/foil too much usually.  The other thing I see people doing is fiddling with the wing during the turn and then forgetting to fly the foil and spitting out the board.  With enough speed, you can just about make a whole jibe without ever touching the wing!  I tell people "fly the foil first".  Try to just make the 180 degree carve on the foil, even if you have to gently bring it back down to the water at the end... vs trying to power up with the wing and distracting yourself too much to remember to keep the foil in control.  After you have built the muscle memory to control the foil through that turn, you can then add powering up the wing and even switching the feet if that's your path (I don't personally).  Anyway, hard to teach by typing, really need to see where you're at in person and make personal advice, but the above is generally what I've been giving to my friends learning.

As for what speed you should go... each foil is different, so I can't say... Whatever speed you can start trying to carve the turn with without blowing up is the right speed for you.  See how far you can just glide though a turn without kicking out the board.  You might only make it 45 degrees around at first, then 90, eventually near 180.  Let the wing stay neutral and out of the way as you do this.  Plan on just gliding down to the water in control at the end... you will feel the foil run out of energy/lift and know it's time to come down gently for a landing.

Ok, drove down and had a late session in Marina Bay in the SF Bay Area.  Very short runs due to geography of the site and a bit choppier than my super flat speed site, but managed to hit about 29mph.

This thing was pretty tough to get flying, probably comes up initially around 13-14mph board speed and then isn't really on step until 15-20mph.  It doesn't pump well and you can hyper stall it if you're not fast enough and turn too hard.  I was not completely satisfied with the balance, so I need to play with some settings and try the Glide 25 rear wing.  The Glide 32 pretty big looking compared to the Surf 60 front!  Way too big I think.  With the smaller rear wing, flat water, and my 4.0 vs 6.0 (today) I can see low 30's coming without too much trouble.  I can tell you this front wing is no where near the efficiency of the 120HA.  If you don't take your jibe at a pretty brisk speed and keep it fast, you ain't going to make it.  I finally managed one tack, but it was pretty tough.... my 6.0 is a draggy bastard though, no doubt with a smaller slippery wing it will be easier.  I'm not sure this would be a daily driver foil, maybe just set aside for going fast on big flat days, ideal conditions.  I'll be testing again tomorrow...

I've been riding the Lift 120HA for a while now and liking it a lot.  Originally I wanted to go fast 30mph+ and was initially disappointed that it topped out where my Gofoil GL140 did... about 28mph or so going at it 98% fear factor.  I'm sure you could eek out 30mph if you were willing to die for the title.  :)  However, the 120HA has an incredible glide ratio, especially at speed.  I can pretty much do a 360 jibe or tack with no wing power at all, given enough initial speed.

Enter the Lift Surf 60 v2, half the area, less aspect, but still respectable.  I'm hoping for 30mph+ now, but we'll see... if I can even get it flying on a 75L board!  Take off speed of the 120HA is about 8-9mph board speed, but once flying slows down nicely to 5mph without stalling, but skittish for sure.  I'm thinking the Surf 60 is going to be probably double that, should be a good little challenge to get going!  I'll report how it goes... for anyone that cares about going fast on none race foils (Mikes Lab/F4/etc).

Pics show 120HA next to the Surf 60 with the Glide 32 and 25 tails... one has a 3" fuse extension (helps mellow out the pitch stability at speed) also shows size compared to Gofoil Kai set and my hand!  lol

Here is a quick vid of how the 120HA rides...    (no speed runs here, wind was too light)

Hi Clay!  Long time no see buddy!  I gotta come winging with you guys sometime!

I did not weight it, but it's so light it's essentially zero weight to me.  I can't tell it's there under me unless I look  ;D

I keep the foil on it at all times, but I'll weight it with the Lift setup next time I get it down to play to get an idea.  I'm thinking somewhere around 8-10lbs for the board only???

supfoo, haven't tried the fliptip, I was told the flat was faster?  Might cut it down though as something to try for more speed and maybe some fillet work between the rear wing and pedestal to stop it occasionally stalling.

Yea, I find it hard to get a good variety of pics of new products at times, same with this product, so I go out of my way to get some good ones at all angles for anyone in the same position.

I came off a 6'5 Flying V for winging that I started SUP foiling on when they first came out.  I will add more review info once I get more time on it.  I've only had 3 sessions so far.

I've gotten the GL140 into the upper 20mph range.  Haven't ridden the Lift 120HA yet, hoping for 30's.

I'm 180lbs, not too hard to ride this board, as long as powered up.  Once flying it's epic!

JL VM 5'0 x 24   75L
GoFoil GL140, 18w flat tail, 9.5" pedestal, 29.5" mast with Adapter (+4", 33.5" total)
Lift 120 High Aspect, 32 Glide tail, 32" mast

Classifieds / Re: GoFoil GL wings
« on: November 01, 2020, 12:40:55 AM »
I'll take the 180 if you still have it.

Foil SUP / Re: GoFoil 1.5 Release
« on: December 19, 2019, 12:11:44 AM »
Interesting, I just think about windsurfing fins.  if you have a nick in the trailing edge or any gaps around the fin it tends to spin out/stall/cavitate a lot easier.  Who knows.  I thought about melting hot wax into the gaps as a temporary test, but I bet the forces involved would rip it right out!

Foil SUP / Re: GoFoil 1.5 Release
« on: December 18, 2019, 09:59:08 AM »
Damn, I wonder what's holding my back.  Must have something to do with that rumbling I get which causes loss of lift and speed.  I did notice that the fuselage fitment to the wing is not great, there is almost a 1/4" lip going from the fuse to the front wing (pic attached).  The lip is also at the trailing edge of the main wing, so maybe it's creating a cavitation and spreading to the wing causing a stall.  I think I read somewhere someone faired their wing to the fuse.  Maybe I need to try and do something like this.  The wing did feel faster, but it did not pump well and it did not take off well, and according to GPS it was not a lot faster, just 1-2mph.  There must be something wrong with mine.  I didn't think much about this, but the top surface of the front wing has an indented area.  It's not very deep, but in the light you can see where there is a flaw.

Beasho, what top speeds have you seen on the 210?  If mine is significantly slower, then that kind of confirms there's an issue with my setup.

Foil SUP / Re: GoFoil 1.5 Release
« on: December 16, 2019, 08:37:27 PM »
I kept the washers out, just didn't crank down on the bolts crazy hard to be safe.  Hearing the whine doesn't bug me, but does make me think something is not optimal.  I guess I can do the trailing edge sanding trick like in the videos if I want it to go away.

I'm thinking the GL240 might be closer to the performance range of the M200 than the GL210 let alone the GL180.  Smaller is always faster, but slow speed performance suffers.  I didn't realize how much I rely on the M200's slow speed take off ability to catch waves.  The 210 just didn't have it at all.

I will ride the GL for a while and then switch back to the M200 to get a good back to back comparison.  Can't judge anything 100% in one session.  It wasn't the greatest conditions today for testing.  On a good day I might get a different experience with some of these things.  Very interesting riding something totally different!

Foil SUP / Re: GoFoil 1.5 Release
« on: December 16, 2019, 06:41:32 PM »
I was desperate and went out this afternoon to give it a try.  Bumpy, and big.  6.6@12 but felt a lot more like 7-8@13-14.  1.5 OH ++

My watch recorded it and I compared to a similar session with the M200.  Looks like it's about 1-2mph faster on the top end, and about .2mph faster on average... but I will need more sessions to see if it was just a bad day for the 210.

At top speed I would get a rumbling like bad flow over a wing and the top end speed/lift seemed to be held back, maybe flutter?  It also would make a very high pitch whine at top speed.  I wonder if the rear wing is getting caught in the wake of the front wing, hmm.

Some observations compared to the M200 while it's fresh in my head:

-Take offs, NO lift at less than 5mph, nothing.  I missed 80% of the waves I normally could have caught with the M200.  I just could not get any pump out of it at the start at all.  I was back to paddling a 6' barge into big waves, which is,,, stressful  ;)   Half the time I resorted to getting going in white water to avoid the super late drops in the big waves.  Definitely about 80% harder to catch waves vs the M200.

-Low and mid speed have good pitch sensitivity, very controllable.  Once it finally gets flying its very easy to control pitch.  High speed is very sensitive, bordering unstable.  I think maybe the 2deg elevator pitch is too much for top speeds... I might use washers to get closer to 0/0 decalage (both wings at neutral incidence).  This might also be why I seem to maybe be high speed stalling the rear wing at top speeds.

-Turning, wow, yea, I don't even know how to describe it, seemed like it was not happy to go in a straight line... like the wings wanted to swap ends via yaw axis... reminds me of a mid engine car in the rain, losing traction.  Initiating a turn was a bit more lazy than the M200, but once leaned over the pitch was super active for the rest of the carve.  I have to say, even in the big waves and top speeds, I did not breach even once, which is amazing.  I wonder if the tail couldn't possibly use a small vertical stabilizer or something.  It's a bit loose going straight.

-Speed, yep, it's definitely faster, but it's also a lot smaller, both outline and volume (I noticed my board didn't float me as well, lol!).  It's not scary fast, it just feels a little slippery.  I seemed to get up to top speed on it and it didn't want to go any faster.  GPS says it tops out around 20.x mph... at least in todays conditions.  My M200 has been up to 19.x mph.

-Paddling efficiency, yea I like that, definitely noticeable.  I think the M200 is basically trying to fly when you're paddling out, creating a lot of drag.  The 210 definitely paddles faster... as fast as a 6' barge can go anyway.

-Pumping back out.  The first time I tried I got a good run at it and made it half way back out, but after that nada, the rear wing would stall out on me and plop me back in the water, frustrating.  So may exits I could have pumped back out with the M200 and I was just stalling out  on the 210... except for that one magic time.  I'm very surprised by this given what others have said.  I can't help but think that the rear wing could use more thickness so it didn't stall so much before the front wing... it needs better slow speed performance to match the front.  I did notice I had to get my back foot much father back to get any kind of good pumping action, much farther back, like 2-3 foot widths.

Overall, I'm not super impressed for this first session and with how it's tuned.  It seems just like trade offs, no real super advantage overall.  The smaller wings I learned on behaved very similar, much less low speed lift, but a little higher top end speed, and ability to glide out a bit more in the flat if you have the speed.

Still, new stuff is fun, I'm looking forward to putting more time on it to see what it can do, but it's not a replacement for the M200, totally different animal IMO.

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