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Messages - Califoilia (formerly - SanoSlatchSup)

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Thanks Califoilia, good info.

I should have mentioned this board is a wing foil board and not a SUP foil board.  I can still use the 6’6” to foil surf.

The 5’4” is specifically designed for wing foiling which is another reason I was questioning its stability.
Roger that. Saw you mention everything but wingdinging in your post, but should have realized that being that you posted it in the "Wingsurfing, Windfoiling, Wingfoiling, Wing SUP" section.

So from what I've seen (I don't wingding myself), 95 liters will be more than enough for winging, and you could probably go even lower with a little experience.

From what I'm told, the wing adds stability wanting to hold or pull you up once you get it above your essence, making you lighter as it pulls you up off the board somewhat.

The general rule of thumb I've heard for winging board volume is your weight in kgs. So at 180 lbs, a wingboard even down around 81-82 liters would work for you (I use weight in kgs + 20 (give or take) for my SUP foil boards) .

Foil SUP / Re: Foilmount shims
« on: January 21, 2021, 09:01:38 AM »
I don't have any trouble measuring the angles, but I don't have a reference line for the angle of the board floating in the water with me on it. No matter, I'll experiment to find the right combo. this is a lot thicker than my funky tape and card shim. I'm looking forward to seeing how it goes.
I use shims to level the deck to the fuselage when needed. It's my believe/theory that the foil in flight want to find "level", so I use whatever shims are required to level the deck of the board to the fuselage, so when I'm just standing, gliding down the line w/o any input to the board is level in flight vs nose up or nose down that makes maneuverability from those odd angles more difficult...IMO naturally.

The length is definitely doable, it's just be a matter of whether you'll be comfortable on a board that'll be floating just at the waterline or slightly below it.

I recently paddled a 5'1 @ 99 liters comfortably at me 185 lbs, but it was certainly a challenge paddling into waves with it, because I was pushing a lot of water, instead of gliding on top of it.

So when I ordered my 5'1x27" SUP foil board, I thickened it up a bit to get a more comfortable, and easier paddling 102.5 liters in it. Just know that you won't be getting as many waves with a smaller, less volumed board as you do with your current board.

But if you're willing to give up a few waves to gain the added maneuverability, and pump-ability of a much shorter, smaller board...then that 5'4 might be what you're looking for. My current board is 5'7x28"@104 liters, which catches waves great, and is so much better in the air than my older 6'0x28.5"@110 liter board.

Wingsurfing, Windfoiling, Wingfoiling, Wing SUP / Re: Axis Foils
« on: January 19, 2021, 07:54:45 PM »
Very nice, looking forward to testing the new wings when he makes down south to our neck of the woods in the next month or two.

Foil SUP / Re: Shits and giggles/River wave foiling
« on: January 19, 2021, 11:27:15 AM »
Thanks for posting that! I love how you've seemed to have found the "endless wave" that we all dream about.

The takeoff technique still have me a little baffled - riding backwards on a foil seems super difficult - but whatever it is, you definitely have it mastered. :)

Wingsurfing, Windfoiling, Wingfoiling, Wing SUP / Re: Axis Foils
« on: January 19, 2021, 11:13:47 AM »
Incidentally, in my experience carving on the face of the wave does exactly the opposite of "slowing you down". Dave K told me "If you can't pump, turn." Most of my falls from the top of the ladder (top of the wave, overfoiling, falling to the bottom) is because I got going faster than I can control my foil by turning on the top of the wave. To me, it feels like the throttle got stuck. I survive bottom turns much better by running too far out of the wave, getting my turn done before the wave catches me, and then pumping to speed up before it rolls me off sideways. Not elegant, but it sort of works. I call it the Geezer Bottom Turn.
Yeah, the bold is my experience also. At times with the 860 it seems a little doggy speed wise compared to the 900, so when heading down the line to setup a turn, I'll sometimes "pump" the wing by making some quick, successive turns (not complete top/bottom ones, just partial up and down the face) to pick up speed...that I eventually work to the top, and then nose down into my true, subsequent bottom to the top turn.

Also, the above "nose down" is just that, I feel as though I have to "dive bomb" it down the face so as to not over foil it, and have the wing breach as I'm picking up speed in (with) the turn, and the wing wants to lift, thus levels out through it, and I'm back looking to hit the other side with speed and height again.

Wingsurfing, Windfoiling, Wingfoiling, Wing SUP / Re: Axis Foils
« on: January 18, 2021, 07:30:09 PM »
After that session, I ordered a 910 and an 860.
Great call...they're both awesome, and both completely different. The 860 is a carving machine (w/the 460 to loosen it up a bit, and the more you turn the better it works)...the 910 (w/ the 420 to speed it up a bit) still turns on a dime, but pumps and glides like a beast.

Both are super fun, and have sorta made my 900/390 previous favorite a dust collector...for now. :D

Foil SUP / Re: Tail wings bolt pattern - compatibility
« on: January 15, 2021, 07:03:19 PM »
Hole diameter seems to be off, as in the "diameter" of Axis/Naish seems to have lost 1mm.  For example my measurement of 30mm plus + 6mm equals 36mm, when they are calling it 35mm. A 2X4 isn't, frustratingly confusing.
Axis tail screws are M6 (6mm), so 1/2 or the middle of that would be 3mm. When added to your 30mm measurement of the two closest hole threads...would give you 33mm center to center...theoretically.

Wingsurfing, Windfoiling, Wingfoiling, Wing SUP / Re: Axis Foils
« on: January 15, 2021, 04:26:10 PM »
If Axis can make quiet wings, I want everyone to make quiet wings.
I had the 420 with the 910 "humming" at times today. But not as loud or consistent as I'd get from my most all of my GF setups...when other guys with GFs never made a peep. Only learned about filing the GF stabs trailing edge about the time I was transitioning over, so never bothered with it. But all-in-all it's never been that big of an annoyance to me, so an occasional hum never bothered me that much, and when it does or did happen...figured it just let others know I was coming, and to get the heck outta the way! LOL... ;D

Back the point brought up by SanO - I'll say that I haven't noticed a difference between the standing deck angle during flight with several different boards for which I KNOW there is a difference in the angle between the foil and the deck.  However, I have noticed the difference during wave take-off.  I know you don't care about wave count or how it feels to catch the wave - but I do!  I'm pretty sure that for me, once I'm up in the air - the board basically doesn't matter besides the weight.  For me that includes the precise angle of the deck to the foil - I don't think it effects my riding experience.
It's an easy feel for me. In the board I had to shim, I felt like I was foiling downhill, with the lower than the tail. Once I threw the shim in the front of the baseplate, I felt it level again, and much easier to control going into, through, and out of the turns. I also breached less with the shim in that board; in that when I was flying "level" on the board, the wing was actually pointed 1o underneath it, and my lame brain kept trying to ride it level, as the wing was heading for the surface. :-[

PS. from having spent just a few days at SanO - you guys down there are totally spoiled.  That's about the most user friendly wave I've ever encountered (I rode it both overhead and piddly small).  For those of us in more challenging waves, takeoff is huge.
Yes, we're very fortunate, and it's also why my wife can't understand why I don't want to go on vacation anywhere else. She seems to understand when I tell her, "Hell sweetie, people from all over plan their vacations to come get the great surf in our own backyard...why would I ever want or need to go somewhere else?" :D

catching small to medium sized waves the wing is not in the same water flow as the board.  The water is flowing more vertical at the board versus at the foil which is deeper down below the wave.  So I wouldn't be surprised if there is a different sweet angle for catching waves depending on the wave too

Agreed, and I believe the "theory" that with a longer mast, you're putting the foil even further away from the energy in small(er) waves. But again, I personally, am more concerned with how the board/foil flies and performs once I'm up and riding...and not so much whether I catch every single wave I paddle for.

Heck, I keep going smaller, and smaller with boards, knowing full well that each will reduce my wave count some, but just for how much more fun they are once in the air that they are. But I know that's just personal preference, and not for everyone. 8)

Yes, mast shimming depends on whether the board has tail rocker or not, and how much. I had to throw a 1o shim under the front of the mast on my previous board to get to to fly level instead of nose down, but my next board from the same shaper sets the fuse perfectly level with the deck, so no need to shim that one. Basically shimming the ride angle of the board when the wing is flying level in the water is what you're doing.

Actually, you've doing a bit more than that. You're also setting the AOA of the foil--both wing and stabilizer--when the board is in the water. To see what that affects consider an extreme in both directions. Say the foil is pitched down 10 degrees. Obviously draggy as hell, but it also pulls the board down onto the water when you're moving forward. You'll have your work cut out for you trying to get the wing to fly--you'll have to stand on the tail like crazy. And when the AOA reaches zero degrees it will explode out of the water. Now pitch the wing 10 degrees up. Still draggy, but now it's trying to lift the tail. Get the board up to speed and it will come up easily--and stall.
I say "potato", you say "potatoe", but we're saying the same thing(s) just looking at the problem differently.

Yes, it is the "AOA", but you look at it as the AOA of the fuse (the connects "both wing and stabilizer") to the board on the beach, and I look at it as what the AOA of the fuse to the board is doing to my flight in the water.

Sure, you can theorize on the beach with however many degrees of pitch you have between board and fuse, and what you think it's going to do wrt how the wing will come outta the water, and/or how fast or slow, and whatever other beach talk things we all chatter about there when we're not actually surfing.

I on the other hand simply look it as what the board is doing (what's its attitude or pitch) when the wing is flying level in the water...which it's always seeking to do unless I futz with it screwing that up. Allowing the wing to fly level at speed, is made much easier to feel and control when the deck of the board is level to fuse, and thus the board is flying level with "both wing and stabilizer"...shimming the mast one way or the other accomplishes that.

Always want the AOA to be zero when the deck of level, and change either the mast placement on the board, my foot placement, or both to change how the board comes out of the water at takeoff. But never would I change the AOA of board to fuse just to make the board come out of the water differently, because I'm more concerned with how it's going to fly down the line, and through the turns...not for the couple of the seconds of whether I make the wave or not.

 If I'm not catching waves it's not the AOA that's the problem, but rather my timing, technique, wing choice, or board selection is off. But that's a whole other story once again.  ;) ;D

Wingsurfing, Windfoiling, Wingfoiling, Wing SUP / Re: Axis Foils
« on: January 13, 2021, 03:13:21 PM »
Cool, thanks admin. I got a chance to see the 1300 last summer in its R&D stage...and man that's a BIG wing! :o ;D

Looking forward to the 810 and 880 to try in the surf soon, and will just have to wait and see where the other BCS stuff might take us. 🤞👍

Foil SUP / Re: SUP surfing what foil brand should I be looking at
« on: January 13, 2021, 02:51:16 PM »
Hey now, the setup i sold passed you're inspection :) I'm out of AXIS gear to sell at the moment unfortunately.
LOL! It went in my "demo" fleet (it just returned from Hawaii), so I could be a little less picky. ;) ;D

Yes, mast shimming depends on whether the board has tail rocker or not, and how much. I had to throw a 1o shim under the front of the mast on my previous board to get to to fly level instead of nose down, but my next board from the same shaper sets the fuse perfectly level with the deck, so no need to shim that one. Basically shimming the ride angle of the board when the wing is flying level in the water is what you're doing.

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