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Messages - Badger

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The pic is from the Ben Casey video you linked too, where you were saying the fins on his board were similar to the AM2 fins. Did you mean the fins on the left or right board are similar to the AM2?

I was talking about the first video. I was using it as an example to show that he was using shortboard style fins in his longboard. Ben rides his longboard as if it were a shortboard. Most longboarders use a single fin or a 2+1 set up. It depends on your style of riding.

I don't know much about the AM2's except that they look like a good all-around fin set. The FCS Performer fins I had in my Tom Carroll Outer Reef 10'6 were similar and they surfed great on that board. I ended up selling the Outer Reef because it was too wide and had too much volume.

Here it is here.,34703.msg400710.html#msg400710

Badger - got a question fins. Attached is a pic from the video you posted. Do you mean you like the fins on the right side or the black/grey ones on the left? Those are quite pretty - what model are they? Not the AM2, correct? I see the point - in weak windsurf it is good to have fins with big bases and lots of areas.  Also, at futures they they also have a line of fins in "BlackStix" that give you speed in weak great lakes surf, do you like fins in BlackStix too in this situation?

I don't know what you are asking. They look like typical shortboard fins. The white fins have a fairly long base to provide drive. The other fins seem to have more rake which will draw out the turns.

Fin shapes explained here.

You can learn more by Googling surfboard fin guide.

I should add that small prone fin sets aren't always the way to go on bigger boards.

My 10'6 Hypr Gun seems to work best as a 2 +1 with a 7.5" center and 4.5" sides. I've tried it as a thruster and it doesn't seem to respond as well. That might be because of the somewhat narrow tail it or it could just be me and I need more time on the board.

Give the 2+1 set up a chance as well.

Back when I started standup surfing, I saw videos of the pros doing pivot turns to catch waves and thought that was the way to do it. I actually returned a perfectly nice board because it was too difficult for me to pivot turn. Since then I've learned that while pivot turns look really cool when catching a wave, they are not really a requirement. I gave up trying to do it and to this day, still use a simple cross sweep to turn the board around. My 10'6 is a little slower to turn for a wave but it's not a big deal once you've done it a few hundred times.


Anyone ever wear two leashes ?

Yes, many have used two leashes. There is more risk of a tangle but the added security is worth it when the swim could easily kill you. Even if you make it to shore, the hike to safety might be extremely cold after being in the water.

Hey Badger,

I was doing some searching and found this thread all about the GL1s and GL2s and looks like you even had some of both. Even though this thread is about me possibly going off quads, did you try those fins on your boards and what did you think of them?

Yes, I used both sets extensively on a few different boards. I liked them at first but in the end, decided both sets were two big. Five years ago, the general consensus was that standup boards needed bigger fins than prone surfboards. I found that wasn't true, at least for me. Many on the forum started using standard prone fin sets even on bigger boards. I did too and never looked back. Large prone fin sets are plenty big enough for SUP. There is no need for fins to be SUP specific. Both the GL1's and GL2's were oversized for SUP but have been discontinued for quite some time.


In other posts I entertained buying a smaller board but I have yet to really make full use of my own board, a 2014 Surftech Gerry Lopez Big Darling (Purple). It is a longboard-style surf SUP and it
The problem is not that I can't turn at all.  I can usually turn slightly left or right, and turn onto a wave, and do large arching turns, but I can't just whip it around 180 degrees to quickly catch a wave like I want to especially in the mushy windswell I now surf in (moved from Hawaii to Ontario, surfing in Lake Huron & Erie). I tell people it sort of feels  like I am "turning an oil tanker." Even in Hawaii on big waves, I never was able to actually do a bottom turn.

That is precisely why I don't like longboard shapes. Longboarding is an art that takes a lot of practice. The shape is not very conducive to turning so it requires a lot of finesse to get them to turn.

You could go with the standard longboard 2+1 fin set up. Maybe an 8 or 9-inch center fin and two much smaller side bites. That should dramatically help your turning in those mushy lake waves. Those GL side fins are way too big.

If you want something more high performance, those AM2's that dietlin mentioned would be great. That's a similar fin style to what Ben Gravy is using on his longboard on his recent visit to lake Ontario. Skip ahead to the 9:00 minute mark for the actual surfing.

The waves were bigger in the second video. A shortboard shape might be better suited for these waves. It pays to have more than one board for different conditions. Skip ahead to 5:00 and 13:40.

I'll bet you don't have many glassy morning sessions on the great lakes. I think if I lived there, I would forget about trying to SUP surf the shorebreak in all that wind and get a downwind board or wing/foil board.

For those less experienced readers, ALWAYS wear a leash when there is wind, swell, or current.

Not just a leash, but a leash in good condition.

Some of the leashes I've seen people using are pathetic.  People who let their leash drag on the ground behind them or let it sit in the sun every day for weeks at a time are not thinking about the consequences. Don't wait until your leash breaks to get a new one. Replace it every three or four years even if it still looks new. They get stretched out and the parts weaken over time.

The same goes for the loop that you attach the leash to. It's a good idea to have two loops, one short and one long of high-quality line. That way if it breaks, you have back up. David John almost died on a downwinder because his loop broke and the board went flying away downwind. If a boat hadn't happened to be passing by before the sun went down, he might not have survived.

My 7mm Xcel Dryloc boots have always kept my feet warm when surfing, even in 20F air and 35F water. When it's that cold, I pour hot water into them just before I go out and it helps a lot.

There were a couple of times when my feet did get cold on long, below freezing, flatwater paddles. Probably because the boots did not get submerged very often.

Supthecreek used to rave about the boots he wore for winter flatwater on Cape Cod. I almost bought a pair. Now I can't remember what they were.

I was just checking out the SupSkin drysuits and they look pretty nice. Not quite as baggy as the Ocean Rodeo that I had. The great thing about these type of suits is that they are breathable so you stay fairly comfortable as the temperature fluctuates. It's also easy to remove or add an inside layer if you need to, and what a pleasure it is to take off the suit after a long paddle in the rain and/or snow and be completely dry. I often just wore my regular street clothes under mine.

I think most people would need a minimum of a 3/2 full suit to survive an hour in 50-degree water and there are some like myself who would need a 4/3. A lot depends on the air temperature as well.

For downwinders, I wear as much rubber as I can comfortably tolerate for the air temps and make damn sure I don't lose my board.

I also had good luck with the Ocean Rodeo drysuit. I found it very comfortable in air temps from 20F to 60F and comfortable in the water as long as air and water temps were within 15 degrees of each other. The problem with loose-fitting drysuits is that you can't swim very far in them. So you might have to drift and hope for rescue.

I wear a Mustang waist pack PFD.

I wish I hadn't sold my JL M-14. That was an awesome board.

Flatwater and Touring / Re: Winter Paddle at Eklutna Lake, Alaska 10F/-12C
« on: November 11, 2020, 02:36:14 PM »
ah, Bunny Boots - I saw the last of them like 5 years ago - a guy was selling some from who-know-where out of the back of a cube-van for like $60 a pair. Truly heavy clunky WARM boots. I had one pair that my parents made last by inflating them to fit my smallish boy feet  (they have a vent for letting air out/in for flying)- I blew mine up to make the oversize boot fit - till I outgrew them :D  - Later in my childhood I had the Moon Boot - cheap, light, WARM boots lol - the 1 inch air gap in the soles really worked. I stood many hours in -20 waiting for a bus in those crappy boots :D I'll take you up on the felt if I can't get them cheap at the local outdoor store today. Another advantage to the wool is that is slowly conforms to your the shape of your foot - I had a pair in some old military style boots and the first set of inserts squished/moved to fill up gaps so much I put in a second set and ended up with a perfect-fitting set of boots that lasted many years of outdoor real world work environment :D

Bunny Boot for those who might never have seen them - not going to work for a SUP (well...they might float .... however.... soooo bulky ... )  but if you have to stand outside in COLD weather a lot they are the best.

oh look you can buy them - more surplus? How long is that rubber going to hold up? Holy Moly! I don't think they have made any since the 80's.

The cutaway shows why they were awesome - look at those layers! 3x1/4 inch of wool felt - or more! No wonder they looked goofy - but at -40c/f  ooohh man.... warm feet change everything.

I had a pair of those back in the 70's for ice fishing.  Like Wetstuff, we called them mouse boots.

Gear Talk / Re: new fin setup for JL Super Frank
« on: November 03, 2020, 01:25:45 PM »
That's awesome that you picked up the Destroyer. I'm sure it will be a fun board. Let us know how it surfs and post some photos.

I tried the Futures TMF nubster on my JL World Wide 8'5 for most of 2015 and did not notice any difference in how the board performed. I think the whole nubster idea was a gimmick to help the fin industry make a few bucks. Kelly Slater used one in a contest and suddenly everybody had to have one. I don't see any of the pro's using them these days.

Sessions / Re: Hurricane Zeta
« on: October 31, 2020, 09:34:10 AM »
There is one more tropical wave in the Caribbean and it might develop into a storm and head your way.

The 5-day outlook shows it going to Honduras. Unlikely to enter the Atlantic.


Gear Talk / Re: JL Super Frank vs Destroyer
« on: October 30, 2020, 01:03:39 PM »
Hey LB, have you done a video with the Destroyer? I don't think I've seen one with you on that board yet.

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