Messages

Testing is such a damn hard thing to do. Takes forever just to test two different options. And it takes many repeats, and ideally many different testers to be really convincing. Who has time and energy for that?

Okay, this is complicated. There's a surprise. There's about a ten percent speed difference available by playing with fins on this board, which is more than I expected.

I set a baseline by paddling with the stock three fin setup. I tried three different paddles, expecting the Konihi 84 to be fastest as I've seen before. To my surprise the Mana was faster. Might be because I'm adding more of the Puakea stroke to my stroke.

Konihi 95   5.35 mph max, 4.94 average, 4.30 upwind, 5.35 downwind.
Konihi 84   5.50 max, 5.14 average, 4.40 upwind,  5.50 downwind
Mana 90     5.55 max, 5.20 average, 5.10 upwind, 5.55 downwind
I reversed the order of paddle use and got about the same results, so I used the mana for testing.

Stock plus ventral, Mana 90  Max 5.50  5.20 average, upwind 5.20 Downwind 5.50  The ventral fin took a little getting used to. Tracking is better, stability is better,

I tried taking out the center fin with ventral. the difference was too small to list--about the same as three fins plus ventral.

I took the ventral out and ran stock twins only.
Twins no ventral  Max 5.65 Average 5.20 Upwind 5.05 Downwind 5.65   This was the fastest setup, contrary to my earlier tests of the standard three fin with no ventral. The board was hard to control and it wandered, but it reached higher speed. I tried some larger "nub" style twins I got from Larry with no change.

Single fin and ventral Max 5.10 Average 4.95 Upwind 4.85 Downwind 5.10  This setup accelerated well but it felt like it reached a maximum speed quickly and then stopped accelerating.

Twin nub fins with small "ventral" between them, no ventral  Max 5.50 Average 5.40 Upwind 5.25 Downwind 5.50  This felt really good, accelerated well and held speed easily. Didn't track very well

Twin Nubs with ventral Max 5.50 Average 5.30 Upwind 5.20 Downwind 5.50  Tracked well, didn't feel as easy to hold speed but the results were good.

I was pretty puzzled by all of this, so I tried the Konihi 84 with the twin nub plus ventral
Max 5.65 Average 5.40 Upwind 5.30 Downwind 5.65

By then I was totally confused, and I'm not much less confused now looking at the numbers. From the way things felt, the Konihi paddle works better with the ventral fin than the Mana does. I think I need a teeny ventral fin and a teeny center fin--maybe it just functions as a gate between the two foiled side fins.

The ventral fin adds stability and tracking and doesn't cost any significant amount of performance. I think for anything but a downwind race it would be an obvious choice. There's definitely performance to be gained with multi fin setups, but it's going to take some experimenting to get all of it. I think course conditions and paddle choice may go along with fin choice. Which seems like something surfers have known forever.

How many times did you repeat each fin test? Wondering what the signal to noise ratio is with your speeds being spread out like that

they have it in Germany
http://www.maximum-surf.de/Inflatable-Boards_1_s2
and its on sale !!!

I have the board myself and I like it a lot. Never been fan of the Isups, but this one is really good

I don't think our US colleagues are ready to pay for SUP gear what we pay for it in Europe...

The full retail price on that board is identical in the US and Germany using todays exchange rate. Though the German one will end up cheaper, even with international shipping,  as it is on sale for 300 euros off.

What is the advantage of wingman over the harnes type inflatables?

http://www.westmarine.com/buy/west-marine--manual-inflatable-life-jacket-with-harness-yellow--16759755?recordNum=2

I really enjoyed the pics and captions. Im jealous!

A10 I agree 100 percent with your assessment of travis grant. He has more humility about his mastry of the stroke than most of the pompous jackasses on this forum. And yes, as you are all thinking, I am clearly one of the pompous jackasses.

I think all surfski paddlers must smile when they hear people complaining about how hard it is to remount a SUP with a PFD. A surfski s 17" wide with a round hull and the cockpit rim is about 12" off the water. You have to get up and over, flip onto your back, rotate 90 degrees, and not let the log roll while you are doing it. Add a bulky pfd with a vhf radio in the front pocket and big breaking waves, and it Is obvious that it is a skill that has to be learned and practiced. But once the skill is mastered it is trivial and done without thought even in big seas.

I think practice is the big difference. When you learn to paddle a ski you practice the hell out of remounts on flat water and then in big water too, because your life will depend on it someday. Practice works.

If getting on a SUP with a PFD is hard then the simple solution is to practice with a PFD. 10 remounts from each side every time you paddle will build stength and muscle memory fast.

20 seconds faster over 6 minutes means almost 3.5 minutes faster over an hour.

Bullshit.

Yugi that is my impression as well. On a ski or oc you can mash the pedal and instantly achieve a huge angle of attack of the rudder; enough to disrupt laminar flow and turn a a steering device into a braking device. Seems much harder to do this on a board with a fixed fin because the angle of attack can only change at the rate that the direction of travel changes, which is much more gradual.

PonoBill - I have been thinking about your explanation of why fins are foiled - If I understand you correct, you are saying that it allows the fin to draw the tail back in line with the bow (via principle of lift) if the board has started to move in a diagonal manner through the water.

My confusion is this - you really don't need a foil shape to do that.  A flat fin cut out of a sheet metal would also direct the tail of the board back in line with the bow. How a fin works is more about the angle of attack than the foil shape I believe, similar to the more accurate explanation for how an airplane wing works and how airplanes can fly upside down:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/science/science-news/9035708/Cambridge-scientist-debunks-flying-myth.html

In surfskis, a rudder without foil works, but it can only turn so far before it generates a great deal of turbulance that impedes deflection of boat relative to the water. Isn't that the main reason sup fins are foiled? to allow them to continue to be effective without turbulent "stalling" at a greater angle of attack?

Maybe I misread your post.  Anyway you know and think a lot about this stuff so I would be curious to get your take on it.

I looked up dragon boat world records. 200m record is 40 seconds, which is 11.2 mph average. I think the sup 200m record is 47 seconds by danny ching, but that is with a rolling start, and he is the only one in the world under 50 seconds. Rolling start,  as an aside, is an idiotic way to structure a race. But that is a different subject. Bottom line is that dragon boats are simply much faster than SUP so the results are no surprise.

Interesting. Gooper is started in 2011 and made in israel. Gobag started in 2014 and according to their website " the world's only magnetic self-sealing waterproof dry bag". They look identical. Something fishy is going on...

I have tried many phone bags and had some fail. My favorite is the gooper. Can also be bought from epic surfski. It uses rare earth magnets to close itself automatically. It is impossible to not seal properly. Most other designs are prone to human error or rely on a precarious zip lock seal.

http://www.gogooper.com/products

The current standard of readesigning a board every year seems artificial. Like its more about marketing than anything else.

I have the "carbon hybrid" which is of couse a fiber glass board with a couple strips of carbon down the rails. 29 lbs before leash fin and handle. It is a beast. Fun to paddle. Not fun to carry.

I paddle lakes mostly. By the end of summer the paddies of eurasian milfoil are so thick you can practically cross a lake on snowshoes. Futures Redfish is the best fin by far that I have found.  Noticibly faster through weed than the futures keel which is the next best i have found.  Required about 2 hrs of work to fit, including glassing in an area several inches forward to hold a new pin. Also took about 10cm2 off the tail to get it to go in. I dont think the sic weedless woukd cut it around here by the looks if it. Looks like a good fin though.