Standup Zone Forum
General => Training, Diet, and Fitness => Topic started by: surfcowboy on November 08, 2010, 03:35:04 PM
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Not sure if this was Gear, Technique or what. lol I'm gonna stick it here.
So we don't hijack the cramps thread, in sessions I wanted to ask what folks are eating and putting in their bodies to keep them out on the water. After hearing about that 6 hour session, and the fuel that went with it, I was intrigued. Also Bill's mineral comment made sense as I have heard that electrolytes and minerals make a huge difference in stamina.
I have been using Hammer Gels, before a session and during long ones to keep fueled up. (low to 0 sugar, as I'm off the stuff)
I drink either HEED from Hammer or a Powerade Zero after sometimes.
Lately I've found that drinking Hammer's Recoverite after a session keeps me from getting as sore, but that may be a placebo effect. Bikers swear by the stuff and I've heard of some racers using it too.
What do you guys eat and drink out there, to keep you out there?
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Since you already like the Hammer Gel and Recoverite, get a container of the Sustained Energy powder. It's maltodextrin and protein. Good for longer sessions (1+ hrs). Whether on the bike or on board, I put a scoop in each water bottle and if a really long paddle a shot of Hammer Gel goes in the bottle as well. I like mixing the stuff in my water as it's much easier to consume. You can also mix and match to make whatever flavor you like since Sustained Energy has no taste for the most part.
I like Recoverite but it all gets expensive. I just buy Now brand Natural Vanilla Flavored Whey Protein (30grams) when it's on sale every other week.
That's what works for me.
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Surfcowboy--good question--I'm looking forward to seeing what answers you get.
Endurance Sports Nutrition by Suzanne Girard Eberle, has some good advice, although it doesn't discuss surfing. I've gone a a talk she gave, plus lots of others, mostly by triathletes and swimmers. If I had to summarize what they all said, besides staying hydrated, it's
--1) the specific thing you eat or drink isn't really important--although the liquid should be some sort of electrolyte thing, instead of just water (except for short events)
--2) don't ever go out without eating first--get up early enough to eat something, and if it has some protein and fat, you won't bonk out an hour or two later, and
--3) the most overlooked part of sports nutrition is eating something with some protein and carbs IMMEDIATELY after finishing your activity.
For the last one, she recommended lowfat chocolate milk--not because it's magical, but it's something easy to remember, and it has a good ratio of carbs and protein. She said there is a "magic window" after working out in which your body is most ready to absorb nutrition--within 20 minutes or so of finishing. If you meet it, you'll recover much faster for the next workout. It's easy to miss, because if you wait until you've changed, driven home, etc. it's too late.
I know this stuff changes over time because I've been reading and trying different things since the 1970s, but this last one seems to have a lot of adherents among serious endurance athletes.
The thing I think is most interesting about sports nutrition is that people's appetites and cravings are always ahead of science. It takes a while for science seems to catch up and identify the reasons why things people seem to crave actually are good for you. The other thing is that the more elite the athlete is, the less concerned they seem to be in terms of what particular potion is best--maybe because they've tried them all, and either don't have a preference, or they've found something that really does work and don't want anyone else to know!
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Running mags frequently have nutrition tips. I've seen the Choc. milk item there too, with more explanation. It is so easy. Take a bottle with you, start drinking as soon as you get back to your vehicle. We are talking about Choc. milk.
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When I know I'm going to be out there for several hours at a time, I eat a huge meal before I go. I'm talking 4 egg omelette loaded with cheese, toast, yogurt and some fruit. I could care lass how much fat or how many carbs I'm consuming, because it's going to get burned off during my paddle. It is common practice for endurance athletes to "carb up" the day before an event, so I'm not worried about what I eat before a paddle that is going to last 6 hours or more. High protein to carb ratio is important for energy and keeping your glycemic index stable, so you don't "bonk" during your workout. I also make a point to down a couple glasses of water before I leave the house to get the hydration process started. Athletes shouldn't wait until they are thirsty before drinking anything. Sports drinks work great during and after a work out for recovery. I stick to the water during my paddle because I usually already have a lot of sodium in my system after my pre paddle pig out.
I always pack a snack or lunch. Granola and protein bars, banana, apples, sandwich etc.
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I sure paid for not paying attention to this in the round the rock race. I've never bonked like that before. I had a big dinner the night before, too much wine so I couldn't sleep, and then didn't feel like eating breakfast, so I didn't. Dead meat.
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that too much wine business is killing me these days. make me really fuzzy in the dawn-patrol line up.
one thing that i have found is that if i don't drink a liter of water before going out, i might as well not bother going out; it makes that big a difference. thank you, ponobill, for that tip of some time ago!
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Thanks for the tip on the generic protein stuff. The Recoverite can get expensive.
Interesting stuff, and the 20 minute window actually fits with my experience. When I don't get food in me right away it seems that I'm more sapped and don't catch up if I eat later.
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Clif bars.
I love sitting down on my board and gnawing on one in front of a proner.
It's like the final blow.....could only hurt more if i opened a picnic basket Ehh Boo-Boo?
Not that you couldn't just stuff one in your wetsuit if you went prone too.
And again, the Capri sun packs stuff easy for small volume hydration.
Def have had sessions though where i sat down to lunch with one eye on the horizon :D
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it's very important to "Feed the machine" with any endurance type sport. While you are ticking away at a moderate heartrate your body is burning fats and carbohydrates so you want a bit of gas on board. I do a bit of cycling and my very favourite pre ride meal (2 hours before) is:
• Arlene's Creamy Rice Pudding
o 1 cup rice
o 6 cups hot milk
o 1/2 teaspoon salt
o 2 tablespoons butter
o 2 teaspoons vanilla
o 2 teaspoons sugar
o Place all ingredients in a pot that holds at least 8 cups. Cook over low heat (don't boil) for 1 hour. After cooling to room temperature, refrigerate. Can be mixed with fruits or flavored with cinnamon.
This is much better than the commercial canned variety as the rice is a much lower GI source of carbs than the high GI sugar content in the cans. The salt is good to stop cramping and protein in the milk. Its cheap to make too. Lasts about five days in the fridge . I make it in a slow cooker and turn it off when the rice is cooked. (about 5 hours on low). I don't bother with pre heating the milk.
cheers. Jaybee.
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Any gel like Hammer gel is Highly inflammatory and really hard on your body and system. Chocolate milk after a heavy paddle is a nightmare for your body loaded with simple carbs (sugar) ... thee worst thing for your body after a hard and long workout. If your paddling for hours and are consuming carbs your body actually stops using it efficiently and begins to store it as fat. Watch this short and very simple to follow video by Nikki Gregg. This is 21 st century science and I have been following a diet for a while now that is similar to what they talk about in the video, and it works incredibly. I paddle 10 miles in the open ocean and come out of the water feeling fine with no fatigue.
As far as carbs go they are finding out it is a nightmare on your body (even complex carbs like grains and whole wheat) and is not an efficient source of energy.
Food grains can lead to Bone and muscle loss ....
http://www.sunnyhersh.com/Articles/2010/09/22/bagels-bad-to-bone/ (http://www.sunnyhersh.com/Articles/2010/09/22/bagels-bad-to-bone/)
Healthy fats that you get from sources like coconut oil , avocados and nuts are stored in your liver and converted into energy much more quickly and more efficiently than carbs.
watch this video it's a good start to get a grasp on how science and what we know about sports nutrition has changed. Nikki is on it !!!
What we eat DOES make a difference, anyone who says it does not, is simply uneducated on the subject .
Fuel Your Workout: Nikki Gregg speaks with Tish Berman (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2tA1yc-cPHM&feature=related#ws)
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SEA--that Nikki Gregg/Tish Berman video is a good one. Any advice coming from or endorsed by Nikki Gregg has to be taken seriously. And the message in the video is exactly the same as the main message of the nutritionist I mentioned (Suzanne Girard Eberle)--that the most important part of sports performance nutrition is your daily diet.
However, I wouldn't dismiss any advice from Eberle, either. She is a former national 5,000-meter champion, and represented the U.S. at the World Cross-Country Championships. She has run a 4:28 mile and 32:41 10K. Her nutrtionist credentials and experience stack up well against anybody's. I bet her diet recommendations and Gregg and Berman's are probably quite similar overall. One of Eberle's biographical entries I found does say she loves eating carrot cake--a sign to me that her advice acknowledges that things like that are part of being a happy human for most people.
What do you eat and drink during or after a workout?
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Her advice about avoiding sugars and processed food works for me.
Real food and water is all I need.
IMO - Jack Lalane's advice is tough to follow, but very good. "If man had anything to do with it, don't eat it."
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Tish is great, she's who I hired to help me get my nutrition in order. I start tomorrow.
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i've been a gel person for a while but mainly because i tend to need to refuel about an hour in to any session and i can keep a gel pack handy stuffed into my wetsuit and ready to go. is there any lean protein / good fats equivalent?
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Clif bars.
I love sitting down on my board and gnawing on one in front of a proner.
It's like the final blow.....could only hurt more if i opened a picnic basket Ehh Boo-Boo?
Not that you couldn't just stuff one in your wetsuit if you went prone too.
And again, the Capri sun packs stuff easy for small volume hydration.
Def have had sessions though where i sat down to lunch with one eye on the horizon :D
You seem to be sitting a lot, I prone paddle more than stand up but just had to point that out about the sitting, ;D
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I think the whole point of that video and what I have found out is that everyone has a different make up and our nutritional needs will vary. I have found out that I don't do well with Any sugar or even complex carbs like grains or whole wheat. I mainly eat Lean protein , good fats from coconut , hemp oil and seeds, nuts and avocados , a lot of veggies of all colors and some fruit but not much and no starch of any kind. I had to play around with the amount of protein and good fats I consumed as well as carbs until I had optimal energy and was able to still loose weight. If you are eating a good healthy well balanced diet for your body type and getting enough good fats stored in your liver you will not need any type of supplements for a 2 to 3 hour session paddle surfing or a similar length distance paddle. As Tish states in the Video , If you are consistent with your nutrition and feed your body well you should have 3 days worth of energy stored up in your liver. All I drink when going for long distance paddles is water period !!!
I can tell you that since I have changed my diet and found what works for me it is CRAZY how much energy and stamina I have now, compared to what I felt Just 6 months ago. I am 5'11 and weigh about 195 . When I began to change the way I eat I weighed about 210, my goal is to get down to 180 maybe 175 but losing weight was never my main intention , it is just living a lifestyle that allows me to be operating in life with maximum energy and minimum fatigue especially when paddling, at just about 50 years old thats HUGE. And what Tish talks about is a good beginning.
Like Larry said any type of food Man makes is not as good as fresh and natural.
Hey Bill let us know how you are doing with the coaching from Tish. Good luck and hang in there it's worth it. :))
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I think the whole point of that video and what I have found out is that everyone has a different make up and our nutritional needs will vary. I have found out that I don't do well with Any sugar or even complex carbs like grains or whole wheat. I mainly eat Lean protein , good fats from coconut , hemp oil and seeds, nuts and avocados , a lot of veggies of all colors and some fruit but not much and no starch of any kind. I had to play around with the amount of protein and good fats I consumed as well as carbs until I had optimal energy and was able to still loose weight. If you are eating a good healthy well balanced diet for your body type and getting enough good fats stored in your liver you will not need any type of supplements for a 2 to 3 hour session paddle surfing or a similar length distance paddle. As Tish states in the Video , If you are consistent with your nutrition and feed your body well you should have 3 days worth of energy stored up in your liver. All I drink when going for long distance paddles is water period !!!
I can tell you that since I have changed my diet and found what works for me it is CRAZY how much energy and stamina I have now, compared to what I felt Just 6 months ago. I am 5'11 and weigh about 195 . When I began to change the way I eat I weighed about 210, my goal is to get down to 180 maybe 175 but losing weight was never my main intention , it is just living a lifestyle that allows me to be operating in life with maximum energy and minimum fatigue especially when paddling, at just about 50 years old thats HUGE. And what Tish talks about is a good beginning.
Like Larry said any type of food Man makes is not as good as fresh and natural.
Hey Bill let us know how you are doing with the coaching from Tish. Good luck and hang in there it's worth it. :))
wow bra I thought you was spilling the beans. No need nobody listens anyway. Different strokes for different IMO a letum find out themselves.
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I think the whole point of that video and what I have found out is that everyone has a different make up and our nutritional needs will vary. I have found out that I don't do well with Any sugar or even complex carbs like grains or whole wheat. I mainly eat Lean protein , good fats from coconut , hemp oil and seeds, nuts and avocados , a lot of veggies of all colors and some fruit but not much and no starch of any kind. I had to play around with the amount of protein and good fats I consumed as well as carbs until I had optimal energy and was able to still loose weight. If you are eating a good healthy well balanced diet for your body type and getting enough good fats stored in your liver you will not need any type of supplements for a 2 to 3 hour session paddle surfing or a similar length distance paddle. As Tish states in the Video , If you are consistent with your nutrition and feed your body well you should have 3 days worth of energy stored up in your liver. All I drink when going for long distance paddles is water period !!!
I can tell you that since I have changed my diet and found what works for me it is CRAZY how much energy and stamina I have now, compared to what I felt Just 6 months ago. I am 5'11 and weigh about 195 . When I began to change the way I eat I weighed about 210, my goal is to get down to 180 maybe 175 but losing weight was never my main intention , it is just living a lifestyle that allows me to be operating in life with maximum energy and minimum fatigue especially when paddling, at just about 50 years old thats HUGE. And what Tish talks about is a good beginning.
Like Larry said any type of food Man makes is not as good as fresh and natural.
Hey Bill let us know how you are doing with the coaching from Tish. Good luck and hang in there it's worth it. :))
wow bra I thought you was spilling the beans. No need nobody listens anyway. Different strokes for different IMO a letum find out themselves.
SEA's post was really helpful to me. I'm glad he posted it. The video was also excellent. Everyone has to find out for themselves what works for them, but hearing what works for others speeds that process up.
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This has been a good one. Just back from a vacation where I surfed and paddled at least once and often twice a day.
I found that after a session some spirulina protein powder dropped into a fruity zero sugar electrolyte drink worked pretty well to keep me fed. I was eating a ton, but Mike's person looks to be right for me. I was way less sore when I got something in me quickly.
I agree it's all personal, but it's good to hear what folks do. For me, when I cut out bread (processed wheat flour) I get skinnier.
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For simple hydration I've used Gookinaide/aka hydralyte/aka vitalyte with great success. Far too much sugar in gator/power-ades. If I must drink those, I dilute by half with spring water.
Good diet and pre-feeding not withstanding, I need a snack on the water if I go past 90 minutes.
Good ole Clif bars work for me as do the Greens+ line of bars.
I agree with the protein + healthy fats idea the video suggested.
If you want to explore that in much greater detail, new this week, is the book, Four Hour Body by Tim Ferris. The guy is a bit of a freak, but does his home work and his research seems solid. The diet and strength training is cutting edge.
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read tim ferris as well, good book. just like his book says, take what works for you. no reason to make something more complicated and think because its complicated it works any better. take the simplest method that works and use it. i found out that i was intolerant to gluten and by cutting out the wheat and other flours with gluten ive dropped tons fat off my body. another good one ive cut out is alcohol. leaves me more calories that i can put towards real food, and makes it alot easier to get going early in the morning no matter how little sleep ive gotten the night before.
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Nut mix, juice and water after a workout :)