Standup Zone Forum
Stand Up Paddle => Gear Talk => Topic started by: photosettle on November 16, 2007, 10:47:57 PM
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Any thoughts on a good set up clothing wise for cold water distance paddling. A wetsuit steams up so hot and sweaty even when the air is in the 50's. Does a dry suit work better or does that trap most of the sweat in as well? When surfing, your constantly in the water to get a fresh 'washing' but when not falling off, it is a sweat bath in a 5-3 suit.
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We've just come through our Winter here in Oz and I didn't want to stop paddling..Not even for one day.. ;D
I have many wetsuit options already but knew it would feel uncumfee and sweaty so here's what I did.
I bought some wetsuit shorts (like the water skiers use..I think) and wore them under my boardies..(boardshorts)..I also bought a wetsuit sleeveless vest..
So with my vest overlapping my wetsuit shorts I guess I ended up with a sort of sleeveless springsuit..but with the option of taking the vest off and just wearing the shots under my board shorts and the paddling keeps me warm enough.
It's amazing how much warmth wetsuit shorts add to keeping warm...I also bought one of those new long sleeve 'thin' wetsuit tops but never needed to wear that often but when I did it was ok and didn't restrict paddling.
DJ
(http://members.optusnet.com.au/~djp1/mypic3136.JPG)
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PonoBill and Linter discuss the koketak goretex drysuit here. Sounds like they are great for flatwater paddles.
http://www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog/?p=299 (http://www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog/?p=299)
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I experienced this too hot issue just the other day. Up here in New England it's cold, like 40's and 30's right now and when you paddle hard you sweat hard. I was wearing my xcel 6/5/4 and found it to be way too hot. The next session I wore a 4/3 and was way more comfy once I got warmed up. I think if you wear a bag drysuit with loose fitting polypro underwear you'd be ok as well. I plan on getting an OCS drysuit after I get a new board.
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Here is your answer.
http://www.kokatat.com/product_detail.asp?code=gmer
Get ready to buck up though! ;D
I have been using mine on 40 degree rivers with absolutely no cold experiences:)
After a 2 hr paddle down 3 miles of class 3 whitewater and about 2 dozen violent wipeouts I got off the water and my fleece shirt and pants were still bone dry, along with my socks too-go figure-these things are AMAZING.
Plus they breathe when you get hot:)
HIGHLY recommended
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I got the Patagonia 3mm wetsuit and have been using it in NE where it's been in the 30's and 40's. It has wool on the inside and the neoprene they use is pretty wind proof. All it works pretty well.
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ECSUP
What are you wearing for gloves. I had my first coldest winter session yesterday morning and my hands froze. I have 3mil five finger gloves i will be putting on next session. Have you had any trouble paddling or feel or slippage of the shaft when you paddle wearing gloves? A wetsuit and booties are not too bad but I'm wondering about gloves. Any cold water/climate SUP's have or want to share their secrets.
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Gloves are tough for dexterity and warmth w/o felling thick and making gripping the paddle hard. For kayaking in cold waters I have been loving these.
http://www.nrsweb.com/shop/product.asp?pfid=2447&deptid=944
You give up some dexterity but I have used them a few times for SUP'in and I like them better than any gloves...
But NRS has about the best selection of wetsuit gloves
http://www.nrsweb.com/shop/product_list.asp?deptid=944&ggkey=paddling_gloves&gclid=CMSLmvPZ9o8CFQGzGgodiHjtlQ
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what i've never really figured out -- and maybe someone here has -- is getting a hood that works as well with a drysuit as a built-in hood does on a wetsuit. i'm talking about a real hood, with neck protection, not a beanie or some such. and what's missing for me is being able to turn my head more than a few degrees w/out feeling like i'm strangling. ideas, anyone?
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Was snowing abit today and I was in my excel 4/5/6 wety, 5 mm boots and hoody, no gloves though as I will wait for feb/march time for that. Got alittle warm but Id' drather be too warm then to cold, use a water carrier for fluids so I dont dehydrate. Still if your cold just paddle harder :)
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gjpsup-
i was using 3mm five finger gloves until a week ago. Now I am using 5mm lobster claw gloves. I've used them in 3 separate one hour surf sessions with a C4 paddle and they were fine. Held the paddle better than I thought they would. Today I went out for a 3 mile flat/choppy water paddle and I was using a Kinimaka wood paddle and my hands and forearms got really tired from holding the thicker wooden shaft with the the 5mm gloves.
Hope this helps.
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linter
Cut the hood off and old suit then it can swivel when you turn your head:)
Yea I look for the thinnest palm in a paddling glove because the shaft diameter feels huge and makes your hands tired if the palm of the glove is thick. Yea we have been through all of this for paddling whitewater as our best steep creeking season is through the winter and running 30 ft waterfalls gets hairball when your not sure if you can hold on to your paddle tight enough :o Thats why I would STRONGLY recommend a kayaking glove over a surfing glove. The only thing you need to grip when your surfing (prone that is) is the neck of the nearest SUP guy :o
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Was thinking of getting the kokatak TROPOS swift entry and having them add a relief zipper...
www.kokatat.com/product_detail.asp?code=tse
Does anyone have any experience w/ this drysuit? Especially compared to their gortex models?
How about in the surf... would a wetsuit still be preferable for SUPing or do folks that have dry suits tend not to wear their wetsuits as often?
My reasoning for the TROPOS is as follows
1. Still brethable but not as expensive as gortex (not as breathable either i guess)
2. does not have built in booty sox so you can either go barefoot or wear surfing booties.
3. about $375 new but have to add some $$$ for relief zipper
4. probably only use it for flat water paddling although i may find i like it in the ocean as well.
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I have a Koketat, but it was a lot more than $350--more like $850--I sprung for the Goretex. Mine has a relief zipper--very handy on a three hour flat water paddle when you drink two quarts of water. The Goretex works great, you get a little air movement inside the suit, about like you would from a cheap nylon jacket. My wife bought one too, as you can see in the mockup cover for Kenalu that's on www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog. When she got hers I bought a bunny suit too. Great for really cold days but generally unnecessary. I usually wear my street clothes or some bicycle stuff under them--you know, the "Robin Hood, Men in tights" kind of stuff.
I use mine at the Oregon coast in waves. When you fall in it's kind of grim. All that clothing wrapped around you. On the positive side you float like the michelin man. On the negative side, you float like the michelin man. Lots of huffing and puffing getting back to your feet--or maybe that's just me.
When I wear gloves I use thin neoprene shooting gloves made for duck hunters. After a hald hour of paddling you'll be pulling them off because your hand are too hot. Then you'll fall in and wish you had them on. No such thing as really comfortable. But I gotta say, going back to the car and stripping off you suit to find you're comfortable and dry--ready to drive home--is a very nice thing.
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To SUP/surf in Vancouver and Tofino, I use a 4/3 wetsuit with boots and lobster gloves. When I get too hot while SUPing, which does happen, I just jump in and cool off. Another option is to undo the zipper (mine's at the back) a bit to let some fresh air in. I find these options cheaper than investing in multiple wetsuits.
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Was thinking of getting the kokatak TROPOS swift entry and having them add a relief zipper...
www.kokatat.com/product_detail.asp?code=tse
Does anyone have any experience w/ this drysuit? Especially compared to their gortex models?
How about in the surf... would a wetsuit still be preferable for SUPing or do folks that have dry suits tend not to wear their wetsuits as often?
My reasoning for the TROPOS is as follows
1. Still brethable but not as expensive as gortex (not as breathable either i guess)
2. does not have built in booty sox so you can either go barefoot or wear surfing booties.
3. about $375 new but have to add some $$$ for relief zipper
4. probably only use it for flat water paddling although i may find i like it in the ocean as well.
I don't like the Tropos. I have used the Gore-tex model for 5 years now. This Winter I tried the Tropos because my Gore-Tex suit was getting worn out. I tested the breathability by standing in front of a fan. I could not feel any air coming through the suit and I was instantly sweating heavy in the house. Then I switched to my old Gore-Tex and repeated the test. The fan blew air right through the Gore-Tex and I didn't sweat near as much. I ended up buying a new Gore-Tex suit without booties or pee zipper. My old suit had the pee zipper. There is nothing better than Gore-Tex and with the heavy sweating paddling causes, you really need it.
Also, the Tropos is paper thin and has a light weight brass zipper. The Gore-Tex model is much heavier duty and uses a heavier duty brass zipper.
Wetsuits are fine for me when the water is above 55 and the air above 60. I hate cold, so below that the Drysuit is a must for me.
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Thanks for all the feedback from this post... Much Appreciated.
Shane
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what i've never really figured out -- and maybe someone here has -- is getting a hood that works as well with a drysuit as a built-in hood does on a wetsuit. i'm talking about a real hood, with neck protection, not a beanie or some such. and what's missing for me is being able to turn my head more than a few degrees w/out feeling like i'm strangling. ideas, anyone?
There used to be these Bare hoods that had a big neck flap and they weren't to tight and worked really well with the drysuit. The only drawback was that you looked like a serf from olde feudal dark ages days. Back in the rubber Aquala days. We called the guys who wore them Trashbags. ;D I had one and have warm memories.
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A wetsuit steams up so hot and sweaty even when the air is in the 50's. Does a dry suit work better or does that trap most of the sweat in as well?
I've got three suits:
- Full neo spring suit
- Bag top/neo bottom 5mm cold water suit
- Kokatat's GoreTex full bag suit with attached socks.
I've been using them all for windsurfing, wave ski paddling, and windsurfing for several years.
My observations:
One of the bag suit's advantages is also a danger: you can layer underneath to achieve various insulations levels. When paddling, of course, the temptation is to layer thin to minimize overheading. After a cold-water paddle, I try to make a habit of floundering around in the water until I start feeling that scary chill. Keeps me calibrated on the insulation thing.
For ease of putting on/taking off, the full bag has no equal. It is soooooo quick and easy to get in and out probably nobody can fully understand until they've done it.
For surf, I prefer the bag top/neo bottom or the spring suit. Both give a little bruise protection and you slide through the water a lot better when swimming. Also, there's an issue with the full bag suit's legs vacuum bagging. If the crotch gets too low and you wipe out, the legs are vacuum bagged to you such that it's impossible to get to your feet in shallow water and/or difficult to water start when windsurfing... and I'd bet it makes it difficult to re-mount a SUP.
Also, GoreTex's ability to pass water out from the body seems to me tb somewhat oversold. Yes, if you get sweated up in a GoreTex bag, eventually you'll dry out if you just stand/sit quietly... but the transmissability is totaly inadequate for passing the amount of sweat you generate in, say, an hour of hard paddling.
Bottom line: the full bag suit is easy on/easy off, but not suitable for surf.
Also, for the obsessively-inclined, there's a fault-tolerance issue. With a bag suit, if it floods (or your under layers just get soaked from sweat or infiltration around the neck/wrists you loose the insulation.
If the bag top/neo bottom is compromised, at least you have a farmer john on.
With the spring suit, it's pretty much bombproof.
Like I said, I have and use all three. Each one has it's niche.
If I were going to get only one, it would be the bag top/neo bottom or the spring suit - depending on water temp - for ocean use or the full bag for flatwater (assuming *only* flatwater) paddling.
For multi-use, it would be bag/neo or spring suit.
Last comment: suites designed/sold for windsurfing offer a *lot* more flexibility/ease of movement that a lot of other suits.
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Neo for rivers for skeletal protection and warmth in that 48 degree snowmelt
Koketat for freeze your ass off weather
everything else it's just boardies and a nice layer of blubber.
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When kayaking rivers in the winter of the rainy Pacific Northwest, I considered my Kokatat goretext drysuit to be worth it's weight in gold. Yep, it almost costs that much too... but they are incredibly durable. My current suit is at least eight years old and I have used it a LOT, but it is still going strong. I probably would have gone through at least three Tropos suits by now.... portaging through Devil's Club will do that. :)
But on whitewater rivers, the level of physical exertion is pretty low, so you can usually dress for immersion. The river current does most of the work.
For cold winter flatwater SUP workouts share similarities with sea kayaking in cold water on a warm day. You can either dress for immersion or dress for a workout. There just isn't an ideal solution. Either you dress for immersion (the safe option) and sweat like a pig, or you dress for a workout (the risky option) and hope like hell that something doesn't go wrong to send you on a long swim.
In sea kayaking you can dress for immersion and plan on "roto-cooling", which means doing a few eskimo rolls if you get too hot. That works well enough if you know how to eskimo roll. This is easily approximated in SUP by falling off the board. Much easier than learning to roll.
In sea kayaking, you can dress for a workout if you have multiple safety backups. Such as a good eskimo roll, paddling partners, a VHF radio, and paddling in a popular location. Not ideal, but if you have skills, it's something I am comfortable doing.
Kevin Whilden
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I have 2 solutions here Firts Wetsuit wise the HYPERFLEX MOJO 3M is a lot warmer than its thickness would let you think mobility and ease of entry are amazing
BUT the most AMAZING is the price AND QUALITY Mine is used hard for 3 yeras still going strong and for less than $149 This is an AMAZING suit made here in the USA How about that.
If you REALLY need a full dry suit I use the OCEAN RODEO PYRO PRO warm durable they even have a Pyrosurf for a sleeker look. I only use this on the coldest of cold days water temps in the low 40F The MOJO does the trick 90% of the time...But this Drysuit is MUCH less than the Kokatat
For more details feel free to contact me karabaszJP@aol.com
JimK
www.extremewindsurfing.com (http://www.extremewindsurfing.com)