Standup Zone Forum
Stand Up Paddle => SUP General => Topic started by: Joe Blair on May 21, 2009, 03:59:19 PM
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Members of Stand Up Zone and the SUP community - Jeremy Fry – Wave Rod – 808 Stand Up Paddle Boards
My name is Joe Blair and I have been a surfboard shaper for 40 years and 4 years as a SUP Shaper. I have learned my trade in the shaping room during thousands of hours of manual labor and thousands of different shapes. It has been a challenging career and while the hours have kept me away from my family, working hard to make an honest living, I proud of my reputation as a shaper. Despite the challenges in the surf industry, I shape surfboards for one reason ---- I feel the Aloha of making great boards that help people enjoy the sport more. Sure there are better business people and marketers than me but I have lived an honest life and not ripped off my shapes or taken the easy path.
Forgive me if I have not been an active participant in this forum like some other shapers. Well, let’s just say that I am old school but I do have a great website www.jblairsurf.com (http://www.jblairsurf.com) and am typing better than I have in the past. I have enjoyed the forum a great deal but I am a bit slow with the computer. I have read and gained from what I have learned on Standup Zone but truly a bit intimated by how fast everything happens online.
There was a thread that came up on Stand Up Zone two months ago that ended up becoming an issue between Blair Stand Up Paddleboards and Jeremy Fry / Wave Rod / 808 Paddleboards. I was traveling at the time of the Honesty / Ethics thread and not at my computer or able to take part in the discussions. There were many important issues raised and from what I could tell, many members of this community were deeply passionate about “Honesty and Ethics in the SUP Industry”.
I had heard rumors about what had happened between Jeremy Fry and Sean Ordonez in the past and really did not want or think that the same thing could be happening over again to me.(See Below For Email From Sean Ordonez from SOS Shapes). At the time of the “Honesty and Ethics in the SUP Industry” thread, that I had only seen pictures of the Wave Rod/Blair Models on this forum and on Craigslist. I was convinced that these were my shapes/ rocker etc but wanted to see deal with it in private. I believe in men being men and shapers having Honesty and Ethics. If anyone from around the world called me out on one of my shapes, I would fly not just to another island but around the world to clear my name. Some may call that old school but I believe that men should resolve differences directly and not hide. There was a conference phone call set up where I spoke with Jeremy and he agreed to meet me in Oahu and show me the boards in question. This is when it was requested that the thread be taken down on Stand Up Zone.
After the “honesty and ethics in the Sup industry” post was taken down, Jeremy refused to return my phone calls as he had agreed to. My post here today is directly due to Jeremy’s lack of response and care for his reputation with me and well, I guess the rest of the SUP industry.
“Here’s the facts, nothing but the facts” – Dragnet
Jeremy, my hands are on the typewriter but you wrote this story:
• Within the shaping / SUP community there has been a question over the origins of the Jeremy Fry / Wave Rod shape that has an extreme similarity to Sean Ordonez Big Blue Model (take a look at Sean’s note below)
• I was aware of these rumors but had not looked closely and compared the boards
• I went to the Swamis Surf competition in the Fall and saw Jeremy Fry riding one of my boards/shapes with a Wave Rod sticker on it. I was impressed because he ripped on the board and won the event. I was flattered that he had chosen to ride my shape and trusted that if was interested in my boards, he would call me to arrange a shaping fee. (I have shaped boards for many years and been paid a per board fee when someone wants to license my designs – the fee is minimal but it is a sign of respect and thanks)
• My SUP boards are so unique and completely different from all the other SUP boards being produced at this time, I did not think that Jeremy or anyone else would outright copy my boards - let alone my entire line up
• After seeing Jeremy win at Swamis, I grew concerned that he would do a Sean Ordonez on my shapes
• I called Jeremy on the phone and spoke with him directly. I told him that I would like to discuss the boards that I had seen him riding and have a business meeting. Jeremy told me that he was out town and that he would call me up when he came back to San Diego for a meeting.
• JEREMY – 1st TIME – You Said That You Would Call Me – You Didn’t Do What You Said You Would Do
• Jeremy never called me. I saw him several times out at Cardiff after he agreed to meet with me.
• I still hoped that Jeremy had only decided to ride a Blair shaped board himself and was not going into the China mass production route he had done with Sean.
• I saw a forum post on Stand Up Zone http://www.standupzone.com/forum/index.php?PHPSESSID=2ad885c7f5a9f112e6a543a7c47ea043&topic=2599.0 (http://www.standupzone.com/forum/index.php?PHPSESSID=2ad885c7f5a9f112e6a543a7c47ea043&topic=2599.0)around Christmas time and put another call into Jeremy asking why he had not called me back. All I had seen at this time was WaveRod model board and I was concerned. No returned call from Jeremy.
• Early ’09 - A Team Rider in Hawaii emailed me a Craigslist advertisement from Wave Rod of my four top models – with the exact same shape – dimensions – rocker – deck pads and believe it or not even some of the same verbiage from my own website. – The Craigslist Ads now run in islands of
(http://i685.photobucket.com/albums/vv212/blairsurf/Waverod-CraigListAd.jpg)
• Well take a look and tell me what you think…
11 X 32 Models
(http://i685.photobucket.com/albums/vv212/blairsurf/Blair11WaveRod11.jpg)
10 - 32 Models
(http://i685.photobucket.com/albums/vv212/blairsurf/WaveRod1032478-Blair101325478.jpg)
WR 9'11 x 30 Models
(http://i685.photobucket.com/albums/vv212/blairsurf/WaveRod911-30-458-Blair911-29458.jpg)
• The thread “Honesty and Ethics” on StandUpZone moved to the issues of the WaveRod Boards and the Blair boards being copied into the forefront
• I had a conference call with Jeremy where we agreed to ask to have the thread on Stand Up Zone taken down based on the belief that Jeremy and I would met in Oahu so that I could take a look at these boards in person.
• The boards were in Oahu and I could have seen them at any time if Jeremy would have allowed me to
• I called Jeremy many many times after the thread on stand up zone was taken down without response.
• Jeremy only responded when Michael Filippone called him at my request. He is MichaelF on the standupzone board and a friend– he told him that he was not interested in meeting with me because there was no reason to do so. He already had a partner in his wife and didn’t need another partner. When Michael said that you had agreed to meet with Joe and that beyond “a partner” discussion, the boards looked exactly like Joe’s and had the same, outline rocker etc. and that you had duplicated 4 of his board’s best boards. Jeremy did not deny he had used Joe’s shapes but that they were slightly different. Jeremy said that while the boards were close and they may be almost the same dimensions - they were hand shaped. As hand shaped boards, there was no way that any of these boards could be ”exactly” the same and that Joe had no claim against you. Michael then ask you about rumors about the Sean Ordonez boards and that many in the SUP industry believed that the 10’10 Waverod was a duplicate of the Sean 10’10. His response was that he had not copied Sean’s board and that if there were similarities it was not exact. Per Jeremy, it was no different than some of “the foote and chun” boards – Everybody copies everybody’s shape – that is just the way it is
• JEREMY – 2st TIME – You Said That You Would Call Me – You Didn’t Do What You Said You Would Do and this time you agreed to this in front of two other people
Summary – Joe Blair / Sup Community has raised questions about the origins of WaveRod / Jeremy Fry Shapes and it was agreed (by Jeremy) that he would meet and review his boards. These issues were to be dealt with in private and he has refused to meet with me - man to man. Jeremy believes that copying four boards from one shaper is OK as long as they are hand shaped and not “exactly” a match.
What I - Joe Blair Believe –
• When Jeremy’s shapes, honesty and ethics are questions – he does not bother to be accountable man to man and I know of no reputable shaper – Blane Chambers – Ron House - Mark Raaphorst – Dave Parameter – Steve Boehne that would not have called me back or met with me personally in order to clear up and questions I had
• Despite what I can legally do- I can allow the facts to be know by the SUP / Surf community and his reputation will have been his own creation for the positive or negative
• Based on what has happened to me and Sean (see below) it appears that Jeremy only cares about Jeremy when it comes down to shapes. He takes known shapes that work and has them hand shaped and mass produced in China - flooding the market. I have been in the surfboard industry for 40 years and let me tell you that I have worked with some low level people but not one of these guys has the balls to do what he has done to me.
• If Jeremy can take my shapes, have mass produced in China who is next C4 – PSH- Ron – Infinity - Starboard…. What is the barrier to entry for others to do this? Ability to pay for one container from China and find good shapes and make sure they are not “exactly” they same
• It is my belief that the only recourse for shapers that have this happened is to notify the Chinese surfboard companies and if they make boards that are know rip offs, to boycott these co’s. Why send boards over to companies that are killing the shape creators
Well has this ever happened before? Sean Ordonez & Jeremy / WaveRod
Before I let Sean Ordonez answer for himself below. I would like all of you to remember where SUP was three years ago. Sean was one of the leading shapers. Take a look at this websites and those pictures of Sean O ripping and having fun three years ago. www.sosshapes.com (http://www.sosshapes.com) Where would Sean be today if this had not happened to him? Sean was there ahead or with C4 – PSH – Ron House..
(http://i685.photobucket.com/albums/vv212/blairsurf/Sean-GivingAlohatotheSUPCommunity.jpg)
Let me tell all of you. When I saw Sean riding those waves in Hawaii - he inspired me to make better boards and what was possible in the SUP industry. For the last three years I have been wondering what happened to Sean…. I knew of the rumors but never really knew. Well you can read below in his own words and as Paul Harvey says – “now you know the rest of the story”
When you read the letter from Sean remember his slogan “Think it, Feel it, Shape it” - I hope if this post does anything – it will bring Sean back to us!!!
April 20. 2009
Dear Mr. Joe Blair,
I can't begin to tell you how frustrated and disrespected I feel on the matter I had with Mr. Jeremy Fry. I can relate and understand your frustration you are currently going through with Mr. Fry. We have both been working way to hard in our line of work to have someone such as himself with no credentials in our trade and to outright steal, lie and cheat his way into our surf industry with no respect or etiquette.
I would like to begin to explain the situation I had with Mr. Fry as follows:
A few years ago when standup paddle surfing was just beginning or for that matter being brought back to its revival from the old beach boy days...Thanks to the creative waterman mind of Laird Hamilton. I began to follow close footsteps to his progress on stand up paddle surfing. Being a professional waterman myself and a shaper, I felt a very close understanding and connection to the roots of surfing through standup paddlesurfing. When I pursued shaping my first standup paddle boards here on Maui...Designing, Shaping and building required all my 24 years of skill in our trade , that lead me to produce three of the first and most sought after boards in our standup industry. These were the 11'11" Big Red , 10'10" big Blue and the 9'11" Big Green... A few months of successful distribution of a few containers of these boards, I had Jeremy Fry approach me via email inquiring to become a dealer of my standup boards. He soon after placed an order for ten boards of the big reds and the big blues that he was planning on selling on the Island of Kauai , where he resided and had his kayak rental business...
Of course, I was thrilled with excitement of his sincere interest in my boards and placed in production his order with my partners factory in China who began to produce Mr. Jeremy Fry's order ...But to my dismay when it came time to collect the deposit to pay for his order of ten boards he was not to be heard of and did not return any of my emails or calls in regards to his order... This situation left me in a hard financial spot and I had to come up with the money from my own pocket to pay for his order. Lucky for me I found another buyer for the boards he had just ordered. But soon after this situation, I was notified by Kim Ball at Hi Tech Surf Shop here on Maui, one of my main supporters in the production and sale of my standup boards , brought to my attention that a client by the name of Jeremy Fry had recently purchased two of my production boards from his shop , the big Red and the big Blue. I even have the hard proof of his invoice credit card receipt from his purchase of my boards at HiTech shop. Kim Ball was up to date on my previous dealings with Mr Jeremy Fry, since it was in his best interest to be informed of whom would distribute our S.O.S. boards in the Hawaiian Islands.
Therefore, I grew suspicious of Mr. Fry's purchase of my boards. My suspicions became reality when I soon learned through my Japanese partner in China(Mr Sumitomo from Burleigh Heads/and Betley factory producers of my boards)informed me of what they thought was a container full of my boards being shipped to Kauai...My producers thought that I had gone behind there backs to build my boards at another factory in China and shipping them to Kauai. We all soon realized the truth of the matter and came to find out the Mr. Jeremy Fry had duplicated my 10'10" Big Blue and was bootlegging into Kauai for sale...
(http://i685.photobucket.com/albums/vv212/blairsurf/SOS1010-WaveRodPerformer-1.jpg)
As you can see this was the beginning of the end for me.. As you know it is honorable and respectful in our surf industry if some other shaper/waterman with credentials in our industry creates some productive competition that stimulates each other to do better and benefit the industry... But in this situation with Mr. Fry, it was too close for comfort, as I knew he had fully duplicated my big blue down to the mm ( with less than 10% change done to the tucked under shape done in the last foot of the rail shape in the tail area...) In my professional shapers eyes and many others shapers and experienced surfers, this was an exact imitation of my board. I know this for a fact , for I purchased one of his 10'10" Wave Rod boards...He began to sell all these board in Kauai and soon after all other Islands in Hawaii and soon the mainland USA...
He even had the audacity to use the same color schemes of my S.O.S. boards and even more devastating to me, the whole description I explained to him in great detail over email and posted on my www.sosshapes.com (http://www.sosshapes.com) about the construction and design concept behind my double barrel concave bottom contour.
I even called him numerous times to confront him on the matter but he would not return or even answer my calls or emails... which left me even more frustrated about clearing up the situation. His lack of respect and etiquette should be accounted for and the truth please brought to the publics eye and ears of his dishonesty and lies... He is not worthy to be considered a surfer. He has none of that Aloha that he so falsely portrays through his Hawaiian roots business !...
In conclusion the saturation of his boards in the market, first of all confused a lot of customers thinking my boards where everywhere , when in reality a lot where bootlegged versions of my boards which need I mention affected my business considerably.
Partly due to this issue and other situations I have been very discouraged to continue to put my heart in soul into the standup business.
I am now back into simple shaping and building my S.O.S. surfboard brand in the surf board industry where I believe unlike the standup industry is more respectful and truthful to the craftsmen that give their creative ideas to try to help better the sport we all love, surfing...
Yours Sincerely
Sean Ordonez
Jeremy broke one of the guys that got all of this started. Sean just left the industry quietly…
You are welcome to your own opinion on this. I think it is pretty clear I have my own opinion on Jeremy.
Maybe you are OK with Sean’s and my story and consider this part of the natural evolution of SUP?
You should ask yourself is this what we want to do to the shapers in this industry?
I am going to ask the SUP Community if this OK? I am willing to listen to what you say.
All I have is my reputation and integrity and Jeremy has his. I have my story and we now have Sean’s story that are based on the facts of what has happened to us.
When I see the “Aloha” on the WaveRod website - well guess that I think
Come clean Jeremy
(http://i685.photobucket.com/albums/vv212/blairsurf/JoeTyping.jpg)
Jeremy – if you have gotten to the end of this note – please remember that you wrote my words by your actions. You wrote Sean’s words. My crusty old shapers hands typed this and in the time I typed this, I could shape three SUPs, The sad part is that the hands you see in the picture would have been extended to shake yours even knowing what you had done to Sean and Me.
J. Blair
blair.hawaii@hotmail.com
760-809-9074
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werd... hey joe, just want you to know how much it burns us up to see someone like you taking a hit like this.
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I saw that ad on the Big Island page on Craiglist and my first thought was that someone was selling counterfeit/copied boards, as the way the wording and no name brand kind of advertising tipped me off. I'll be sure to spread the word to friends around here as to the ethics of that ad.
I've always wondered what happened to Sean O., as I was contemplating buying his Green model and always frequented his web page waiting for something new as he seemed to be on the cutting edge with some of his designs and R and D.
Sorry for both of you.
Karma is a bitch, and he'll get his.
Aloha,
Honolii
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Joe Blair, thank you for that- I've met Michael F.- he's always spoken highly of you- I've paddled one of your boards- it was sweet.
In the small sphere of influence provided by my website, the lessons I teach and the paddlers I know in SD, I will definitely spread the word. We are still a small community and news will spread fast.
I own a Sean O. Big Red and I'd seen the Wave Rod- It seemed to me that he'd poached that one but couldn't believe he'd have the balls to post it up on the net. Especially with the matching lengths in the whole line of boards and an obviously ripped off outline.
Interestingly, this isn't the only poaching I've seen of the Big Red- I've seen another board with the same exact front end of the Big Red but a different tail (nose even has the same deck screw holes in it- tail had wings).
It basically comes down to guys racing to make a buck- I guess that's why I prefer boards that are shaped out here in the U.S. by guys that really have their hearts in it (because they sure aren't getting rich doing it!).
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What a shame for the sport to lose someone with the skill and stoke of Sean because of a low life. Lets all hope that small fry gets stuck with his containers. We should all keep an eye out for Craigslist ads for this crap and flag them as ripped off designs.
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I think that this type of thing is what this forum is all about. Too bad that it was in its infancy when Sean needed it.
I hope this helps you out Joe.
ps. I love the baby powder in the background.
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Sean is the man! He took me out when he first made red and blue. His stoke is what really got me into this sport. I will never forget that.
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best of luck Joe... I hope things work out for you. Honolii said it best... KARMA IS A BITCH!!!
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ps. I love the baby powder in the background.
thanks SW for the babypowder comment... HA HA very funny - Yes I can laugh at myself, not to get graphic but shaping boards is not an easy thing and quite sweaty - After around 5 hours shaping the baby powder is needed. - - Well you've called me out - its not easy shaping with a rash -
thx guys for your comments
Hey I've gotten a few calls of people wanting to talk with Sean
The best way to reach him is soshapes@cs.com
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What a shame for the sport to lose someone with the skill and stoke of Sean because of a low life. Lets all hope that small fry gets stuck with his containers. We should all keep an eye out for Craigslist ads for this crap and flag them as ripped off designs.
Yes, we've got to be proactive. Every SUPer I know is going to hear about this.
Joe, you've got an army behind you now!
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I can already see signs of Waverods business going downhill.
In 2007 he swung though our town and showed his boards to a local shop. The shop did not order any boards from him. They were too expensive $1500+ for a no-name brand, with K-Mart deck pads and NASCAR graphics.
It wasn't long before before the brand ended up on Ebay at the same high prices, but now with free shipping. Soon the prices began to come down.
Jump forward to today and he's down to selling on Criags List at $1050.
I'd say he's on a slippery slope to disappearing altogether. But then crooks have a habit of reinventing themselves, so keep an eye out for the same guy with a new name.
Fortunately the internet is a wonderful tool for spreading the word quickly and keeping crooks down.
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Joe,
When I read your post, I can tell that your heart is heavy with this, and also that you are an honest man. Sean was always one of the most positive people on the water.
Will try get this thread posted on some of the Kitesurfing forums....Mr Fry has ties to that industry, and any industry ties/sponsors should at least hear your story. It's springtime/early summer....time to weed the garden.
Also distributers for "Wave Rod Hawaii"
such as Ocean Extreme Sports
http://www.oceanextremesports.com/catalog/boatskayaks-c-54.html (http://www.oceanextremesports.com/catalog/boatskayaks-c-54.html)
Should know about the product that they sell.
We all love the ocean....burns when somebody tries to take advantage. Thinking about your problem makes me respect the kanaka maoli even more for all they put up with along these same lines
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Action has to be taken whenever you encounter parasites. I know of situations like this that suck the innovation right out of an industry. People will never know the pleasure of riding the works of art that Sean, Joe and Blane can create if we let such unscrupulous businesses flourish.
There are designs out there that will never see the light of day because of people that Fry them... It's time to do something about it. Don't let any more shapers get burned!
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I think that we should start posting "counter-measures" ads on Craigslist that explain the story of Wave Rod's ripoff tactics. Anonymous posts make this quite easy...
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hey sup'ers just for the hell of it i went to waverod's website
and this appeared
Sorry, the site you requested is temporarily unavailable.
Due to high volume of traffic, this site is temporarily unavailable. Please try again later.
HMMMMMMMMMM!
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Mr. Joe Blair,
I laughed at the baby powder because that is the first thing that I stock up on when I head for the tropics (the pure cornstarch kind). Nobody wants "huevos en fuego" from wearing wet trunks.
I am glad that it looks like using this forum is working this out. This IS about honesty and ethics, which I can see that you have a lot of. Your boards look great. I would love to demo one.
Are there any up here in Nor-Cal?
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Just have to watch for a "New" company to pop-up as those type of people just go under a bit and then back out under a new name.
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I'm sorry to read this...we're not big enough of an industry yet to experience this...though it might very well be an ominous sign for the future...it certainly will happen again....which is EXACTLY why I was rooting for the initial thread to not be taken down.
Surely there will be more information about this moving forward, but if we let threads stay, it gives other people an opportunity to learn from it.
In any case, I hope things get resolved.
A.
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hey - hang with me on this stuff. i was told that you could change something on your post but i can't figure out how to do this. So I am making it here.
I want to change what was said about Mr. Chun and Bill Foote boards - it was not ment that they had used other shapes to make their boards rather that others had learned from their shapes.
I have seen Mr Chun's / Bill Foote boards and Sean Ordonez and they are all uniquely different and proud of their designs. For someone to say that they are the same to cover the copying that they have done is not right.
Sorry if there was a misunderstanding
Aloha Bra
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hey - hang with me on this stuff. i was told that you could change something on your post but i can't figure out how to do this. So I am making it here.
Aloha Bra
Joe...you can only modify or delete a post for about an hour or so after it was 1st posted. When you make your next post take a look at the top right corner of the box after you do it and you'll see a modify and delete button for that hour or so.
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Joe, I am glad you posted this for the public. I am glad this forum is here to keep the public informed. It is up to both sides to present their case to us and it looks like WaveRod is an unethical company. He probably copied your boards and Sean's because you appear to be not as big as Naish and C4. He was probably too scared to copy thier boards and thought he could get away with copying yours. he was wrong. He is a kook. NO worries, only kooks will buy those boards. Maybe, just focus on the guys who can actually surf because we know not to buy a kook board that is unproven just to save a buck. To good surfers, every wave is important and we can't waste the eave riding a cheapo board. Good surfers will appreciate the skills of the good shapers. Karma is a bitch and he will get his.
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That is too bad but unfortunately, it happens wherever there is an opportunity for making a quick buck. I have a Big Blue and it is still one of my favorite boards. I am proud to own it and it feels like owning an 'original'. Hope Sean finds his way back soon - he makes a great product.
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Joe Blair bummer for you and out of this something good will happen for you guaranteed.
I know a little about your boards but when you get time post up your shaping history or story. Would love to hear somethings about your 40 years in the business like guys you shaped for surf, sup, ?, what got you into it shaping, thoughts on stand up design, etc. Love to hear stories from good guys like you.
Aloha
Byron
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Joe:
It's unfortunate there are scumbags like Jeremy Fry who take the easy way out and just rip off those who are the innovators. I know you have had your ups and downs in this business but you seem to survive and I attribute that to your talent and ethics.
The Internet and these forums are a great way to deal with the unethical and get the word out to the public. Hopefully Jeremy Fry will implode as a result of his dishonesty.
Also your new boards look great and I hope you sell a million of them.
Hang in there.
Larry Moore
Former Inflight Non-Team Rider
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ps. I love the baby powder in the background.
thanks SW for the babypowder comment... HA HA very funny - Yes I can laugh at myself, not to get graphic but shaping boards is not an easy thing and quite sweaty - After around 5 hours shaping the baby powder is needed. - - Well you've called me out - its not easy shaping with a rash -
thx guys for your comments
Hey I've gotten a few calls of people wanting to talk with Sean
Joe,
Thanks for the end to the "mystery". Fry will get fried! I have been paddlesurfing now for 2+ years, surfing for 35 in SOCAL. I love it, and I do not want this industry to go down this path further. More Joe Blair's, Sean O and Blane Chambers' in the world.As far as the Rash goes....I have you covered. Send me a PM and I will send you my product Rash-Away.....works all over the world.
Mahalos for Eva' ;D
The best way to reach him is soshapes@cs.com
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can i ask a favor. This is post is not able me promoting my boards. I only got on here because of Sean and I, and the message. Not to sell more boards just to let the facts out. As you may tell, i am not out to sell a million board. All I really want to do is make a fair living and be respected for my shapes.
if you want info on my history - i would not like it to be on this discussion if it does not relate to this.
http://www.jblairsurf.com/Shaper_OTM.html (http://www.jblairsurf.com/Shaper_OTM.html)
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Just a thought...... I also had a dealing with Waverods here in my shop, and I feel that I got burned as soon as he left the shop with my check for 2 boards. I ended up dumping them at a HUGH loss.............You see those google ads and yahoo ads,
that run on the right hand side of webpages? those are pay-per-click ads where the person running the ads pays a fee everytime someone clicks on the ad. I used to run them also. But if you see one then start clicking away until the reserve is met then they go away until the advertiser dumps in more funds. Used to happen to me until I could no longer afford the ads.
Anyone need a 10'10" Waverod padded bag I might still have one....CHEAP
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Since I have 6, yes SIX, Joe Blair stand up Boards for my SUP quiver, I would like to say a few words about Joe.
The first time I met Joe four years ago, after seeing someone ripping on his board at PB Point in San Diego, I went up to his shop. Never met him before, he gave me a board, and his parking pass to Cardiff State Beach, and said go try the board. Now thats aloha spirit. After paddle surfing for 2 hours, I came back and you can deduce the rest.
Joe is honest, hard working, down to earth, fair and really cares about customers getting a great board.
When you surf his SUPs, it becomes very apparent that he puts his heart and soul into EVERY LITTLE ASPECT of the board to make it surf,rip, noseride,turn well,etc.
There is a thread about Noseriding on this website, and the blue and white Blair SUP in THIS thread is one of my Blair boards. All I can say is this.... When you can paddle, catch a wave . walk up the nose, plant ten over, then keep padding while having ten over, I THINK YOU MIGHT HAVE A GREAT NOSERIDER. If you don't believe me, call me at 619-599-6490 and we'll meet IN PB or La Jolla and you can go out on this board. Fun !
Thank you Joe for your aloha and the great boards , especially the 8' 6" quad that rips, people are amazed !!!
It really sucks that a hard working man, supporting his family just like you and me, gets screwed by someone else !
Brent Larkin
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Joe,
It's unfortunate to here that this is happening. I thank you for bringing this up and making the truth be known. Hopefully the word will get out and put an end to this.
Though this is a serious topic, the comment below made me spew coffee all over my computer and wake up my wife with laughter.
They were too expensive $1500+ for a no-name brand, with K-Mart deck pads and NASCAR graphics.
I'm still giggling.
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Good to see shapers in the Stand Up industry standing up for what is right. Joe, if this ever ends up in front of the judge, I will testify on your behalf and show clearly how impossible it is to build boards so similar by accident. Much less do it 7 times.
I wish you and also Sean Ordonez the best of success with your boards... Aloha, Blane
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I heard about this a while back, and it annoys me every time I see their ads in Standup Journal. No offense to Clay, Standup Journal is a new magazine that needs advertisers to survive, and I love it by the way! I just wish that such an unscrupulous guy didn't have his ads in such a great magazine.
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I just shot off an email to Stand Up Paddle Surfing magazine (website), and asked them to read this thread. They run a WaveRod ad also, but hopefull not for much longer.
Fry, your time is up.
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Hi Southbay,
I understand the dulling of your stoke when you saw a Wave Rod ad in earlier issues of Standup Journal.
But we want you and Team Zone to know that Wave Rod ads will not be seen again in Standup Journal!
It will ALWAYS be a super dramatic move on our part to ever curtail advertisers' wishes to get their message out via our pages...
While Standup Journal can do only so much to police our new sport, once solid evidence has been shown as Joe Blair has done, we will take action.
All of us at Standup Journal, Glenn Dubock, Steve Sjuggerud, columnist Steve West, and my twin bro Kurt and I, have either known or followed Sean Ordonez for years, way back when he was a top wavesailor; he is a golden soul of the waterman's universe, and we'd love to see him back into the sup scene...
... the good, hard-working, driven and fired-up ones need to be involved at this point...
...they are the ones who give back, and pass that fire onto the rest of us.
It's an excellent energy to be around!
Thanks again, Joe Blair... and Blane -- and so many others -- for also weighing in.
Imagine what The Zone and other such forums around the world could have offered earlier era shapers helping set the records straight!
A shaper's art is his or her livelihood. It is unique and must be respected... reverred.
See ya on the water,
-Clay
www.standupjournal.com (http://www.standupjournal.com)
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Sean O is right up there with the top talented shaper / athletes that have ever walked on this planet...it was my honor to work with him back in 2005 on what are surely two hall of fame SUP's...Big Red and Big Blue...
A little bit of this early era history...before there was a SZ...or Standup Journal...
Clay...just drop the "surf and sail"...;-)
Here's a shot of the original Big Red and Big Blue epoxy hand shapes...
Of course, these became the production versions that dozens of posters here on the Zone purchased from us in Santa Barbara starting back in 2006...becoming the first commercially available vacuum bagged epoxy SUP's on the market...and, the first ones with mast tracks...double leash plugs...inserts on the rails for handles...and, tie downs on the nose for dry bags...
The first several containers of that we brought into Santa Barbara were emptied in 4-5 days...
Buying decisions were considerably easier back in the day...a red 11'11' or a blue 10'10"...;-)
Master craftsman SO visited us in Santa Barbara...he built us a 13', and a 14' curly Koa deck open ocean glider...old school... backyard...homegrown style...just like the original Big Red and Big Blue...the red 14'er took 4th place (out of 250) in the Battle of the Paddle open division piloted by Rich Schroeder, a member of our paddle racing team...
http://surfingsports.com/hope_ranch_standup/index.html (http://surfingsports.com/hope_ranch_standup/index.html)
Sean is an innovator...which is kind of a setup for being knocked off...
I feel his pain as my fin designs ,SUP innovations, domain names, intellectual property, and even business model have all been nicked by people seeking short cuts...
Bottom line...unfortunately, that's human nature and you just have to try and stay one step ahead of the bast*rds...;-)
I have been riding Joe Blair's quadfin surfboards for over 10 years...long before they became the flavor of the month...naturally, I tried to get a quadfin SUP from Joe...
It took over a year of resisting the idea of a super longboard in the lineup, hours of late night telephone calls...Joe sleeps in the day and shapes at night...before he relented and starting building SUP's...I coached him over the phone on his 1st SUP...contrary to what has been repeated in this thread, it was 3 years ago...not 4...Summer 2006...just to keep on topic with the flavor of "honesty" in the thread title...
Regardless, Joe's shapes are unique...all you have to do is run your hands over the rails near the nose to know what I'm talking about...Joe's quadfin fin placements are also unique...much further forward than others...of the dozen SUP's we received from Joe, many of them prototypes...I don't think any two were alike...leave the formulas in the books...;-)
Congrats to Joe on getting a new molded production shape...give the planer a much needed rest...;-)
I remember when Joe told me that a certain "person of interest" was riding one of his SUP's...
He was kinda stoked at the time because he could ride waves...and, Joe loves seeing his boards work...I warned him of SO's experience...apparently, it was not a good idea...if it walks like a duck...
Anyways...it's been kewl being in the shaping rooms of guys like Sean Ordonez and Bill Foote on Maui...and, Joe in SD...guys that have decades of HAND SHAPED boards under their belts...
Definitely, a vanishing breed...
The law of moral causation applies here to this thread...karma...nuff said...
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Thanks for listening Clay, and thanks for such a great publication. :)
Southbay
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Huge respect should be given to Clay and StandUp Journal for banning WaveRod. I appreciate any one who has the balls to stand up for what's right and pass up a buck. I liked your magaine already but now I will totally support your magazine and push for your success. Right on Clay, you are a good guy.
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My experience with Jeremy Fry goes like this... Back when I was doing only custom boards he called me up. I asked him what kind of board etc and he told me he wanted, "The most up to date, current shape that rips." I got his weight etc. and we talked about a 9-6 Ripper. He was very clear that he didn't really need to know any details on the board , "As long as it is the most current, hot shape you can come up with." This is not a strange request as others order the same way.
I don't take deposits on customs because I can always sell them if for whatever reason, something happens and the deal doesn't go through. Off I went building his board up in San Diego. Everything was going as it usually does. Jeremy said he could have someone pick it up in San Diego so I was stoked. Couple weeks before it was done we touched bases again. I was going to make sure the board was all good before I collected any money. About a week before it was done, I get a call from a friend and we are just talking story then he brings up the subject of scam artists and rip offs in the industry.
"Hey Blane, its already going on. Some guy on Kauai ripped off a Maui shapers designs for a 3 board line and copied it in China." Then he says, "Yeah, some guy named Jeremy Fry." It didn't take long for the name to register. I told my friend about him getting a board in a week. I hung up and before calling Jeremy I called a number of people on Kauai to confirm what is really going on. I found out Jeremy had just gotten a container from China of Sean Ordonez's copied board line and was selling them in Kauai. I was also told to, "Watch out for that guy!"
I got enough info and called Jeremy and got right into it. I confronted him on the whole thing and he was like a kid with his hand caught in the cookie jar. The conversation was very short and the last words spoken in that conversation were:
Me: You know you're not getting the board?
Jeremy: Yeah.
The whole time I was wondering why isn't Sean Ordonez going after him? I later found out why and I felt horrible for Sean. When you have a guy sooo stoked on his work and he went through all the proper channels to get his line made. All the passion, effort, time and money only to have someone come in and blatantly rip you off. Heartbreak. Sean was heart broken. ARRRRRRGGGGHHHHH!!!!!!!!! This bums me out so much!!!
I will tell the rest of the story of my involvement with this whole thing with Joe Blair and my last conversation with Jeremy the other week when I get back from surfing later. Waves are fun out there right now!
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This whole thread has me baffled. From the videos I’ve seen, Jeremy seems like a very competent SUP rider. He obviously has connections in China to build boards, and here are a lot of good & great shapers in the San Diego area.
Why didn’t he just try to work with a good shaper to build his own boards? He should be able to make good legitimate boards without the risk to his reputation. He’ll never get that back. I am not implying that just anyone can build a board right off that is comparable to a Blane, Ordez or Blair, but I would think he could come up with a very good board for the market he is selling too.
But I also am baffled why anyone would put much effort into cheating little old ladies out of their welfare checks through elaborate scams.
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Fast forward over a year later and all this stuff is brought to my attention. I started the original "Honesty and Ethics" thread that Joe mentioned that was up not to long ago. I posted it because I really wanted to see what people thought about the subject. I learned a lot about peoples views here in the zone real quick. Of course the Jeremy thing was bound to come out. Which IMO was the best thing the surf industry has seen in a long time. It got taken down after everyone involved in the Joe Blair thing asked for it to go down. For me, I was OK with leaving it up but whatever those guys wanted and what Rand thought was good.
Why didn’t he just try to work with a good shaper to build his own boards? He should be able to make good legitimate boards without the risk to his reputation. He’ll never get that back.
While all that was going on, I called Jeremy and confronted him on everything again after saying everything was a lie. What I told him was "WHY?" Same as above... I told him he had all the hard parts figured out. Manufacturing, marketing, etc, etc. Why would he go and blow his whole deal by stealing designs when he could get a lot of shapers, work with them closely and come out with his own, unique, Jeremy Fry models. By doing it the way he did, he basically set a time bomb ticking within his own business.
He sounded very understanding and was saying all he wanted to do was make things right between him and Joe. He sounded sincere. Afterwards, I talked to Joe. I warned him if the thread was taken down there is the chance Jeremy would say screw everyone and continue forward selling the boards. Well, here we are today. Anyway, Sean Ordonez and Joe Blair, I feel your pain guys and I wish you the best of luck with all your future projects... What you are doing here exposing this is a noble and needed thing. ALL legit business people in this industry should ban together when shizzle like this goes down. Good on you Joe Blair.
I'd like to add... Jeremy Fry, when you read this... That thing we talked about Karma in that phone conversation. This is what I'm talking about right here. It will never end till you turn it back the other way. Its never to late to turn it around and you will be surprised how people will react if you come clean and make things right. It may not be pleasant at first but a sincere effort to make things right is the first step. Its all up to you, just like we talked...
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Jeremy is a punk! I will make sure all da boys on Kauai know this story, as most don't. For the most part, nobody on Kauai rides those crappy waverods, except beginners. Hopefully he goes out of business! The bottom line is to buy from reputable shapers. I know PSH has me sold, they back their products 100% and their boards rip!!!!!!
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The oddest part is how unnecessary this seems and how stupidly he went about it. Some trivial changes and he's home free. Or just hire a shaper--or come up with a shape that's a composite. Dumber than a post? Or just a crook at heart.
Reminds me of what a cop friend of mine said when I expressed amazement at how much effort a swindler was putting into a trivial scam with a short life. For the same amount of effort he could have been successful in an honest business that would make money for years. My friend said "Cons, con. Thieves steal."
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I will sell or burn the board I got from fat Jeremy. He is a kook. I was riding my board the other day on a camping trip in San Diego County, and someone was calling me out because I was I was riding that board. Needless to say I wasn't aware of the SUP shaper drama and he was practically spitting in my face about it. I said, no no, no no, What's up, wtf did I do bro? He gave me the 411 on the board and while I respected that, I said no way can I just not ride my expensive SUP. They are really hard to sell used for a decent price unless you want to trade me for one and he said ya right like I want a board from that kook, leave now you can't ride that board here. I said no way it's a free ocean I'm on vacation I will SUP where I want!
We were both standing on our boards and he said, this is for (enter shaper's name here, I will not say) and checked me on the back of my head with the edge of his paddle and then smacked the back of my legs. Stung so badly. I tried to defend myself with the butt of my paddle without getting into a fight but he was tall and big and kept hitting me. I finally said chill bro don't be so aggro. I'm just out to have fun can't we just all get along??
The surfers inside were laughing at us and stuff and he started steaming off on them, hit me one more time on the knee cap and started a fight with a longboarder and a group of shortboarder kids that were heckling him. Then I saw blood on my hand and felt a gash in my back of my head. On my way in he was swinging his paddle and a kid got hold of it and paddled away with it laughing and the others threw rocks at his board when he chased him into the parking lot. I got 8 stitches in the back of my head in the ER later and it ruined my camping trip and week end.
Don't resort to violence it only causes problems in the lineup. I may go back to lay down paddle surfing LDPS because of this and dust off my short boards. The SUP industry is tainted and I don't know what I am even buying anymore unless it is custom handmade from a shaper. I thought my SUP was custom but it is a pop out piece of crap from China.
peace out
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sorry to hear that bra... anybody using his paddle like that should be straightened out. that is totally wrong. defensive - maybe, offensive - way out of line.
btw: you might let the design-thief know what kind of grief you are getting for riding "his" product. let him know who really is to blame for all this.
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Sounds like a bad episode of Baywatch. ;)
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Sounds like a troll. :o
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I just want to thank you all for the overwhelming support being received. This is a wonderful community of surfers and I have been humbled by the responses.
Aloha,
J.Blair
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Joe, Blane, and all the honest shapers out there,
You bring it to the people and the people will have their voices heard. It's great that you bring this kind of stuff to our attention. Being a comsumer I'd like to know about rip offs and unruly producers out there. there'so way that I'd want to support anyone who has, or wants to get ahead in this world just to screw someone else. That's not how I was raised and brought up.
I know that there's newbies and people on a tight budget. But just get to know the guy who makes your boards, and I'm sure that they'd try to meet you half way. It's a hard business shaping boards. remember that your shaper has to put food ont the table for their families too.
don't buy rip offs. They take food away from true honest people trying to provide for their families like you.
I hope that I don't offend anyone here on the zone by my comment, but I've made a few friends here and want to keep them because it's all about family to me.
Aloha and my humble appoligy to those that I have offended. I just don't want to take food off of a hard working person's table.
Aloha,
Sam
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After reading the Honesty and Ethics thread, I want a custom from Sean O and Joe Blair too!
Buy from established brands or GO CUSTOM!
Dave. I need another board from you!
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I can't believe these are still being posted...
http://sandiego.craigslist.org/nsd/spo/1203350568.html (http://sandiego.craigslist.org/nsd/spo/1203350568.html)
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Aloha everyone. I’ve received some emails wondering what my opinion is about the ethics discussions that have been taking place here on the Stand Up Zone. First of all, along with the others, I thank Randy for maintaining this forum. I’ve seen it grow in leaps and bounds over the years, and you’ve done a great job with it.
Regarding the topic of this thread and others related, myself and the others behind SUPSURFMAG.COM definitely feel the weight of the industry on issues like these and feel a responsibility of maintaining integrity of our magazine and promoting integrity in the industry as a whole. As a reporter of industry news, press releases, product reviews, etc…it’s a difficult position to be put in to be asked to police the industry.
I’ve received some emails about Clay’s decision to pull Wave Rod’s ad as well as requesting my opinion about this particular topic. I’d like to thank Joe Blair for his most recent email which has sparked me to reply. Normally, I would reply privately via email, however, it appears that all the emails are getting posted here on the Zone anyways, so I told Joe that I would reply here in this forum.
First, about pulling ads. I received an email asking, “Do you really want to promote boards that are apparently ripoffs…?” That’s an extremely complicated question to answer because it raises the questions of 1) what is a “rip-off” 2) what constitutes “apparently” and 3) is paid banner space “promotion”, and a number of other things, the first two of which have been discussed extensively here on the Stand Up Zone.
I am aware that Clay decided to pull Wave Rod’s ad and was heralded by some for the decision to do so. In my professional opinion, if Clay’s decision to pull Wave Rod’s ads from his magazine was based purely on Stand Up Zone discussion, it looks to me like it was a reaction to cyber mob mentality. Now, if Clay spoke with Jeremy via phone, fax or email and then made the decision, that’s understandable and I would completely condone the decision and respect Clay’s privacy in his reasoning for taking such action. Will SUPSURFMAG.COM be pressured into like-decision making based on forum discussion and the actions of others? No.
In our reporting, we continue to do our very best to stay neutral and honest about what we see in equipment, industry, etc., and we feel an obligation to do so. We are not a blog (online journal) where is acceptable to post personal gripes and opinions. We are an informational news source. To maintain the integrity of the magazine and the integrity of the industry, we choose not to participate in muckraking.
Does this mean we are backing up Wave Rod? No.
Does that mean we will never refuse advertising service to anyone? No.
Is this all about advertising dollars (since they have a banner on our site)? No.
For me, and the magazine, it’s about handling topics like these in an orderly manner.
What do I see as an orderly manner for Stand Up Paddle Surfing Magazine? If we were to receive some polished articles, news, reports, or letters to the editor, with a request to be published, on a topic that mentioned specific companies, whether they be companies that advertise with us or not, that would be something we would have to address directly with that company before making any decisions.
Simply to pull the plug on a company’s marketing campaign because of discussion or lurking on one forum, regardless of how serious in nature the topic is and how highly I personally regard those participating in the discussion, in my opinion, would be unprofessional and unethical on my part…almost “he said…she said…” in nature.
To sum this all up, if you have first-hand knowledge about unethical business practices about any advertisers on SUPSURFMAG.COM, send us a polished publication-ready article or letter about the issue. We will then take that letter or article to the company for answers as that would be the natural course of things. After approaching the company directly, we would then make our best decision whether to continue to run the ad or pull it. As issues like these can be quite serious in nature, please send first-hand experience only. For example, letters about how so-and-so ripped off my friend’s brother-in-law will not be considered.
That said, as always, we welcome your letters and articles. I do receive and review all of them. You can send them to editor@supsurfmag.com.
Aloha friends and happy paddling!
-Nate
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I think Jeremy Fry's failure to respond to the allegations speaks volumes as to the validity of the allegations. From what I have read he has not addressed the issue with Sean Ordonez or Joe Blair.
Jeremy be a man tell us your side of the story. Tell us who shaped the masters you used in your production. Give us his contact information for confirmation.
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Aloha Nate,
Please take this with a grain of salt and a smile since I'm a newcomer to this site and the whole Wave Rod issue. I've been reading Clay's Windtracks since the late 1980's and having nothing but respect for him as a publisher. When I read that he pulled the Wave Rod ads, my first instict was to give him the benefit of the doubt and figured there must have been a pretty good reason for him to have done so.
Through this forum, I was quickly able to glean enough info to figure out what was behind it. Sean's letter in particular was powerful enough evidence, although admittedly nothing that would stand up up in court, but enough to convince me that Clay probably made the right judgment call. It also seems like the principle players did make sincere attempts to contact this Jeremey character and never received a satisfactory response. Clay's decision also doesn't preclude him from admitting error either. In other words, should it later be discovered that Wave Rod was the victim of unfair accusations, he can get his account credited, his ads reinstated, apologies from everyone, and everyone's happy. Sure it's possible that Jeremy contracted a shaper who came up with 3 unique designs that closely resembled S.O.S. boards, had them manufactured. However, given the history surrounding the events that seems a little fantastic and I doubt he's talking to his lawyers.
I appreciate the care you've expressed to thoroughly research both sides of an issue before reacting. I also don't get the sense that you're being critical of Clay - just asking that members of a community be careful when it comes to things like this. After all that's the professional thing to do and I'm sure that's what Clay did. However, this case seems pretty black and white to me and the discussion rightfully focused on what constitutes proper ethics. I think everyone agrees that ripping off another shaper's designs and attempting to undercut their business is anything but ethical.
We as consumers have a vested interest in helping to protect those who supply us with the best gear. The very idea that some unknown could come in and force somebody like Sean O. - with 15 to 20 years of shaping experience out of business sends a chill up my spine. We just don't want to see anyone get hurt.
Aloha!
Gary
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Thanks Gary. It sounds like you got the message I was trying to convey. How you send a message and how it's received can sometimes be very different. I'm glad it came across right. This was one of those posts where you sort of hold your breath while you click "Post" hoping its' received the right way. I respect Clay and his magazine. He's got his head on straight and a nice magazine. I felt the need to refer to Clay since I've received inquiries relating to his decision. Grain of salt and smile taken. Mahalo.
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Nate,
You write: "To sum this all up, if you have first-hand knowledge about unethical business practices about any advertisers on SUPSURFMAG.COM, send us a polished publication-ready article or letter about the issue. We will then take that letter or article to the company for answers as that would be the natural course of things. After approaching the company directly, we would then make our best decision whether to continue to run the ad or pull it."
So, what you're saying is that because Joe didn't directly send you his first-hand knowledge, you bear no responsibility for dealing with the issues at hand? That strikes me as a little odd. You've positioned yourself as a journalistic enterprise. You publish reviews. You say you're not biased one way or the other. Okay. That being the case, and knowing what you know from the *first-hand* info Joe posted here, shouldn't you, on your own, take the allegations to wave rod and see what the company has to say for itself? Shouldn't that be part of your journalistic mission, to investigate such matters as this, controversial though they may be? Why not take this particular bull by the horns? Why not go to wave rod? Have you? What's been the response? If no response, well, what do you make of that?
I think you're on the wrong side of this one, journalistically speaking. From the advertising, business side of things, yeah, you're right. But from the edit side, I kinda think not.
just my opinion. ymmv.
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Thanks for your reply Linter. It would be a slippery slope if we started policing the industry. However, if it relates to news we receive for publishing, that's something I would feel the duty to verify as best as possible before releasing. Talking on a forum or sending an email is one thing, and being willing to put information or accusations in an article to be published and syndicated all over the internet with your name attached to it is another. The latter would certainly demonstrate a willingness to publicly take responsibility for any accusations.
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Nate, I don't blame you for not getting involved. That is what most people would do. But, I have huge respect for Blane at PSH and Clay at Standup Journal for taking a stand for what is right. It is taking a risk and I applaud and respect risk takers and will back them up with my hard earned dollars. They, like myself, have looked at the evidence presented and drawn the logical conclusion. Using my head and my heart, I feel there was an unethical wrondoing here and I am glad people are standing up for the true shapers. Please don't take this the wrong way because I know everyone has thier own opinion and you have to be very careful before you, as a business person in the industry, form that opinion. Aloha
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Diesel, I too have utmost respect for Blane, Clay, Todd Bradley, Sean, Joe, and everyone else who decided to become part of the industry early on. I personally don't doubt the truthfulness of Blane, J.Blair, or Sean's claims. I think you nailed it right on when you said "everyone has their own opinion and you have to be very careful before you, as a business person in the industry, form that opinion." Everyone has opinions. However, in representing a magazine with continual contributions by several authors and industry leaders, my personal opinions have to be put aside as the industry reports the news. If my personal opinions alone dictated how the magazine is run, SUPSURFMAG.COM would be a blog, but it's not a blog. Due process for everything. Mahalo for your insight.
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Have followed this issue from the earlier threads that were taken down.
I understand and sympathize with both Clay and Nates position. However from a journalistic point of view I feel more comfortable with Nates reasoning. Thats NOT a criticism of Clay and nor am I insinuating he is somehow "Less of a Journalist" then Nate. I think Clay was in a very difficult position and I would never criticise him for acceding to the wishes of his readers. But I think perhaps this issue would be better served by reporting on the dispute and analyzing it rather than just silently terminating an advertising relationship. Not everyone reads StandupZone and gets the benefit of this thread.
It seems apparent that WaveRod is a low life and I'm not trying to dispute that. But I think we must be very careful acting upon accusations raised in a blog. In this case the issue is pretty cut and dried and we all see the big picture of whats going on. But next time it might not be so clear and IMHO we should not put undue expectations on industry publications to carry the fight (at least not by themselves).
Obviously everybody in this thread has good intentions but it did cross my mind that it would not be too hard to orchestrate an issue like this to benefits ones own business. Maybe not here on the 'Zone or over on the 'Breeze but this is a young sport and there will be many forums to come.
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I subscribe to the Journal and deleted my bookmark for supsurfmag.
Problem solved.
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Cmon guys. Let's not turn this into a SUPsurfmag bash. He is entitled to his opinion and he is a businessman with a family to support and such. It is not as easy for him to take sides like us. If we are wrong, it is no big deal for us as forum participants, but if he is wrong it is a big deal financially and networking-wise for his future. We should respect everyones opinions.
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Yeah, I'm cool with that, everyone is aware, and that is the most important thing, from here on out, karma will rule,,,,,,,,,,,,, but I don't mind giving it a little help now and then. ;)
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Yeah, what diesel said!
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If I have a problem with my neighbor, family, friend or a business associate, I go to them personally. If they do not respond or respond and I am not satisfied with their response what do or should I do. The wrong thing to do is then go to all my neighbors, friends, other family members and or other business owners and air my grievance about the other person. This is what can happen on the internet to a worldwide scale. If I have a legitimate issue, or feel I have a real issue, it is my choice of taking further action legally or letting it go. Someone airs a personal or professional grievance whether ligament or not on a forum such as this opens a person or business to slander. Other posters come on and feel they know all the facts from other posts and further the issue, without knowing all the facts. A person or business becomes guilty in the court of the Internet. Such actions and statements made can affect the accused financially and personally. This is a very dangerous legal road for those who post to take.
Defamation
In law, defamation (also called calumny, libel (for written words), slander (for spoken words), and vilification) is the communication of a statement that makes a claim, expressly stated or implied to be factual, that may give an individual, business, product, group, government or nation a negative image. It is usually, but not always,[1] a requirement that this claim be false and that the publication is communicated to someone other than the person defamed (the claimant).
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surf96
If I have a problem with my neighbor, family, friend or a business associate, I go to them personally. If they do not respond or respond and I am not satisfied with their response what do or should I do. The wrong thing to do is then go to all my neighbors, friends, other family members and or other business owners and air my grievance about the other person. This is what can happen on the internet to a worldwide scale. If I have a legitimate issue, or feel I have a real issue, it is my choice of taking further action legally or letting it go. Someone airs a personal or professional grievance whether ligament or not on a forum such as this opens a person or business to slander. Other posters come on and feel they know all the facts from other posts and further the issue, without knowing all the facts. A person or business becomes guilty in the court of the Internet. Such actions and statements made can affect the accused financially and personally. This is a very dangerous legal road for those who post to take.
Defamation
In law, defamation (also called calumny, libel (for written words), slander (for spoken words), and vilification) is the communication of a statement that makes a claim, expressly stated or implied to be factual, that may give an individual, business, product, group, government or nation a negative image. It is usually, but not always,[1] a requirement that this claim be false and that the publication is communicated to someone other than the person defamed (the claimant).
Interesting that that is your first post.
"This is a very dangerous legal road for those who post to take."
Seriously? I can't wait to see what other legal issues you can fill me in on.
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surf9 = jeremy
hows that for defamation?
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Other posters come on and feel they know all the facts from other posts and further the issue, without knowing all the facts.
So what are all the facts Surf9?
Maybe that can be post No. 2.
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You want defamation? Go to any political forum, you'll find defamation running rampent through most threads, I know, I've been defamed many times, but I don't care, I just speak my word, some agree and some don't, but that's the way the world is.
Don't get me started on lawyer jokes, I have too many.
What needed to be done with this issue, has been done.
So long as this thread survives.
Watch out for that sign post up ahead, for you might be heading into the,,,,,, Standup Zone! :D :D :D
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Truth is an absolute defense against libel. To be libelous a statement must be untrue and can't be construed as hyperbole. To be actionable as libel the person writing the statement has to know that it isn't true, to prevail in such a case the plaintiff usually has to prove both that the statement was false and that the defendant knew the statement wasn't true. Defamation can also be a public disclosure of private facts, and that does not necessarily include the automatic defense of truth, but these are hardly private facts. In other words, good luck demonstrating any of that.
Of course you can sue somebody for anything, even though its generally a huge waste of time and money, but for something like this it would actually be fun to go to court.
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surf9 = jeremy
hows that for defamation?
LOL....first thing I thought too.... :o
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2nd post...BTW I am not Jeremy. He may not even know about this thread. I was just trying to balance out a one sided thread, I just feel cyberbullying and ganging up is not the way to go. I just wish the two really involved could just work it out on their own.
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Hi Surf9,
re: "I am not Jeremy [Fry of Wave Rod]. He may not even know about this thread."
Oh, he KNOWS about this thread!
I can assure you he is checking it, probably often.
How do I know this?
Because I received a threatening email from him soon after I posted the note that Standup Journal would no longer accept advertising from Wave Rod.
Anyway, Surf9, re: "He may not even know about this thread."
Can I ask you a question?
If Jeremy Fry did not know about this thead then how is it he emailed me almost immediately after I posted something that was only available to read here on StandupZone?...
Fry has most certainly followed this thread from the beginning, which was a long time ago in e-time! ...
Which is why we are all wondering why he has not satisfactorily replied to this public forum to set the record straight on his behalf?
Finally, as I just emailed Nate to inform him:
We at Standup Journal were tipped off quite a while ago; have known there was something fishy about Jeremy Fry for nearly two years...
I give credit to Nate/Supsurfmag.com for doing his due diligence before acting.
-Nate is right, this is a huge decision, but as I replied to Jeremy when he came back to me asap upon reading my thread here a couple weeks ago, in all my years of publishing my windsurf mag we NEVER blackballed an advertiser...
...and I have a feeling that we never will again.
Slap that lip,
-Clay
www.StandupJournal.com (http://www.StandupJournal.com)
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2nd post...BTW I am not Jeremy. He may not even know about this thread. I was just trying to balance out a one sided thread, I just feel cyberbullying and ganging up is not the way to go. I just wish the two really involved could just work it out on their own.
you're either really naive or jeremy fry. either case is unbecoming.
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PonoBill and Clay, word!
Let me add too, the saga continues at the retail level. I visited a surf shop on Maui over the weekend (not Hi-Tech of course), and they had a rather full line of 8.0.8./Wave Rod SUP's, some of which looked strikingly similar to Joe Blair's shapes (e.g., that 9' something "egg" is pretty hard to miss). I'm not sure if the owner of the shop is aware of what's going on. It would surprise me if he didn't, but at the same time I hope he's in the dark because I've known the owner a long time and like to think that he'd take the high road on the matter if he knew.
In either case, I guess the bottom feeding in the industry is still alive, but we as consumers can support the custom shaping industry by spreading the word to friends who are interested in taking up the sport and letting our dollars do the talking.
As for Jeremy, I don't know the guy but I can understand his reluctance to man up to the questions being raised about his business practices. No doubt he has a significant amount of money invested in his venture. I can think of a number of ways to make peace with everyone, salvage his investment and join the community as a welcome player in the industry. Why he hasn't set the record straight or attempted to right any wrongs he may have committed puzzles me, as I'm sure it does many others. Obviously I don't know all the facts, but at the same time I just don't get people like that.
Call me old fashioned, but when it comes to business, I come from a time when one's word actually stood for something.
Aloha,
Gary
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I'm not sure if the owner of the shop is aware of what's going on. It would surprise me if he didn't, but at the same time I hope he's in the dark because I've known the owner a long time and like to think that he'd take the high road on the matter if he knew.
Gary,
Did you inform the owner of the shop about the controversy? If you think he would take the high road it would probably be a good idea. It's a tough decision all around for anyone with money or reputation involved but if I was running that shop my reputation would be worth more than the money. Not sure what the answer would be with $10,000's at stake but the right approach could even help his reputation and in the long run not hurt too bad in the wallet.
Has to suck being caught in the middle of this mess. All over someones foolish greed from not doing some very simple things. No disrespect to all the talented shapers but it would take me all of a couple hours in a CAD program to take 5 shapes I like, make a composite of the ideas with some tweaks to blend them and voila...new shape! I know its not going to have the knowledge and R&D behind it that years of experience bring but it would paddle and surf and avoid all this mess. Even simpler and much better.....pay a shaping fee to someone whose shapes you like and ask for some design features to make them uniquely yours. Now you have a brand that has a shot at becoming respected in the industry instead of becoming a pariah.
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Did you inform the owner of the shop about the controversy?
He wasn't in the shop at the time but I did explain it to one of his saiesmen. He hadn't heard about it and seemed genuinely surprised by the news and said he would definitely talk to the owner about it. I'll probably follow up just in case.
No disrespect to all the talented shapers but it would take me all of a couple hours in a CAD program to take 5 shapes I like, make a composite of the ideas with some tweaks to blend them and voila...new shape!
I was thinking the exact same thing. If you can get someone to duplicate a shape, how much harder could it be to make a hybrid that's unique beyond any shadow of a doubt? Who knows, with any luck, they might even come up with the next great innovation!
Aloha,
Gary
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I have followed this thread from the beginning and I hate to say it but I get the impression that this Jeremy guy is not the brightest bulb in the box. I mean, if I was him, I would have just stated my case way better. No wonder he copied the shapes instead of trying to change them some. He even puts the pad over the whole board like Joe Blair does. That is dumb. He's dumb. He won't defend himself because he is not smart enough. End of story.
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I have followed this thread from the beginning and I hate to say it but I get the impression that this Jeremy guy is not the brightest bulb in the box. I mean, if I was him, I would have just stated my case way better. No wonder he copied the shapes instead of trying to change them some. He even puts the pad over the whole board like Joe Blair does. That is dumb. He's dumb. He won't defend himself because he is not smart enough. End of story.
I have to agree with you Diesel, but at the same time there's an odd paradox to the story. I mean after all, it does take some skill to put together a company that has products manufactured overseas and distributed around the globe. It may not be rocket science but it takes some savvy to forge those relationships. If you can make it that far, you've won a major battle when it comes to kick starting your business. In other words, the guy isn't a complete dumbass. Rather, I think it's a serious character flaw. You know the "it's a small island" saying? We'll it's a small state, and it's still a small sup community relatively speaking and for the time being. Who knows, maybe he's positioning himself to capitalize on the mainstream "John Q. Public" type who doesn't know a custom shape from shinola? Maybe he thinks the heat will pass. In any event it amazes to me to see the depths at which some unscrupulous people will throw others under the bus in order to get ahead.
Aloha,
Gary
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It is pretty crazy. There a lots of really good shapers that have been in business for decades and just barely make the mortgage payments. Building what Jeremy has built takes a tremendous amount of work and business acumen. That he would compromise his brand and hobble his business with unethical behavior is way beyond me, except that as I said before "thieves steal, cons, con."
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It is pretty crazy. There a lots of really good shapers that have been in business for decades and just barely make the mortgage payments. Building what Jeremy has built takes a tremendous amount of work and business acumen. That he would compromise his brand and hobble his business with unethical behavior is way beyond me, except that as I said before "thieves steal, cons, con."
Right on Bill. And you don't sh*t where you sleep! :P
-Gary
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Maybe your right. This guy is trying to sell the copycat board to the new board buyer who want the Joe Blair but are too cheap too pay for it. Like selling fake gucci bags.
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There's an interesting twist - anyone here ever bought a blatantly fake Gucci hand bag or Rolex watch?
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jeremy defended himself last time. why not now?
jeremy has exhausted all of his angles. the only play he has is to tell the truth. no way no how does he have the fortitude to man-up and come clean. jeremy is racking his mind right now trying to find the backdoor to the mess he created. he will find no such door.
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There's an interesting twist - anyone here ever bought a blatantly fake Gucci hand bag or Rolex watch?
I bought a fake Tag Huear watch (spelling?) that looked totally real. I never felt good about that watch and then it broke.
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Ethics are meaningless if we only follow them when it is easy and popular. If a journalist allows his personal opinions and peer pressure (no matter how much we love & respect those people), to dictate our actions, then we fail our code, we will have failed our cannon of ethics and in the process misinformed our readers, betrayed our public trust and our own integrity. We have a greater responsibility to both visitors and advertisers than to allow our personal opinions or pressure from others to dictate our actions. It is not our job to be judge, jury and executioner of anyone. (you can find that on forums, blog’s and op ed’s ). The readers of SUPSURFMAG should be allowed to decide for themselves whose products they purchase. However, they can only do so if truthfully and accurately informed on BOTH sides of the issue.
Our job is to be fair, objective, impartial and accurate. However, as of this moment all we have is one side of the story, and while that side is VERY compelling, it is still only one side. If we pull Wave rods banner ad we will have done nothing to accurately inform our visitors as to what happened and why their banner is gone. We will in fact, have actually done them a disservice.
Purchasing ad space on our magazine absolutely does not afford ANY vendor protection from us posting truth. We are, in no way trying to shield Jeremy from being accountable for his actions. We are neither defending nor condemning Jeremy; we are however, defending his right to fairly defend himself. If Jeremy is guilty as charged, then we have a responsibility to accurately inform our visitors based on incontrovertible FACTS derived from indisputable EVIDENCE. Obviously, Blane, Sean and Joe appear to have a plethora of such evidence, but again we don’t have Jeremy’s side. As a consumer, zone member and avid stand up paddler I certainly have an opinion. However, as a journalist I have to put aside my personal feelings and instead have the aforementioned responsibility to uncover the facts on BOTH sides and then present that information to our visitors and allow them to decide.
We all want justice right? Does not a PUBLIC expose better serve justice than a banner ad going off page quietly? On the other hand, is not a PUBLIC vindication of Jeremy’s innocence better than simply allowing his banner ad to keep running?
As diesel so correctly pointed out, if posters on an online forum say something wrong? You bear no responsibility or consequence in doing so. But if Nate, myself or another journalist are wrong, and our actions are detrimental to someone’s business (advertiser or not) we are exposed to civil prosecution for libel, slander and defamation. Nate could lose his business and both of us could face civil charges. But worst of all we would have failed our ethics.
Therefore both ethically and legally we must be damn sure we are on the right side of an issue before taking any action.
However, to be honest, our efforts to gather facts on this issue were actually hindered when the standup zone decided to delete the thread from two months ago. On that thread Jeremy posted several times, he made claims to his innocence and promises as to how he would address this issue. Yet as professional journalists we can’t hold him accountable, because his words and promises were erased from public record. Obviously Blane and now Joe, have again restated their side, However, Jeremy has not and since his previous words were censored and deleted we lost valuable KEY EVIDENCE. Randy I mean you no offense and believe me; I truly understand you had good intentions in deleting that thread. However, as a long time moderator of large forums, I can tell you that censorship NEVER WORKS. Every time I hear someone on this forum say a thread or post should be deleted I CRINGE. It is a loss of free speech and actually prevents people from being accountable for what they say.
Normally I would rather not comment on a story that is this serious in nature while it is still in progress. However, out of respect for our friends here at the zone, I wanted to assure you that Nate and I are most certainly not ignoring this issue. I understand many here may not agree with our stand on this issue. However, on a thread with the words "honesty & ethics", I would hope you respect the fact that Nate and I are staying true to our own.
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BTW-my previous post was in NO way a judgment of Clay's decision to pull the wave rod ad. I believe Clay is a man of integrity and is doing what he feels is the right course of action based on the information he gathered.
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Haleiwa Bill, well said, which is why I will quote myself from earlier on this thread~
What needed to be done with this issue, has been done.
So long as this thread survives.
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Oh! Come and see the violence inherent in the system! HELP! HELP! I'm being repressed
Hi guys,
We did not aim to repress or censor anyone's speech. Quite the opposite. When Blane had first requested that the other thread be removed, we declined, because that would have potentially silenced the other voices that had a direct interest in this issue. Only when Joe, Michael, Blane and Jeremy all had requested that the thread be removed, was it removed. Can you censor the willing?
We would typically not want to remove such a thread, but it was presented to us that it's removal was viewed by those directly involved as the best shot at resolution, and that leaving it up was likely to hinder the process.
Behind the scenes, this post seemed to be causing a great deal of real stress to all of those involved.
However, to be honest, our efforts to gather facts on this issue were actually hindered when the standup zone decided to delete the thread from two months ago.
The deleted thread was the most printed, and I imagine most saved thread that we have ever had. Nate, Bill, I would think that if you ask you will be able to get many copies of the thread in question and will find that the record has not been erased.
We did all take a good deal of heat over this one, and in keeping with the usual spirit of levity here on the zone, maybe we should all take a moment to have a good laugh at our own expense.
From Surfing Ivan (who would have thought the Zone would have a spoofer):
http://surfingivan.wordpress.com/2009/03/19/blood-and-feathers-fly-on-global-forums/ (http://surfingivan.wordpress.com/2009/03/19/blood-and-feathers-fly-on-global-forums/)
http://surfingivan.wordpress.com/2009/03/22/magic-dust-sprinkle-it-on-makes-nasty-things-disappear/ (http://surfingivan.wordpress.com/2009/03/22/magic-dust-sprinkle-it-on-makes-nasty-things-disappear/)
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"When danger reared its ugly head, he bravely turned his tail and fled. Yes, brave Sir Robin turned about, and valiantly, he chickened out.
Bravely bold Sir Robin rode forth from Camelot. He was not afraid to die, oh brave Sir Robin. He was not at all afraid to be killed in nasty ways, brave, brave, brave, brave Sir Robin. He was not in the least bit scared to be mashed into a pulp, or to have his eyes gouged out, and his elbows broken. To have his kneecaps split, and his body burned away, and his limbs all hacked and mangled, brave Sir Robin. His head smashed in and heart cut out, and his liver removed, and his bowels unplugged, and his nostrils raped and his bottom burned off and his penis... Bravely taking to his feet, he beat a very brave retreat. A brave retreat by brave Sir Robin.
That's, uh, that's enough music for now, lads... looks like there's dirty work afoot."
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Rand and Chan...I truly miss hanging with you folks...just the right mix of serious and fun.
On that note.....and in the best interest of the zone and I think all of us....can we stop beating this poor dead horse?
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Haleiwa Bill, well said, which is why I will quote myself from earlier on this thread~
What needed to be done with this issue, has been done.
So long as this thread survives.
Thanks Weasel wake. I agree the zone has done a great job of allowing this issue to see the light of day (twice in fact). However, while you may be right that "What needed to be done with this issue, has been done" as far the zone is concerned, it does not end here for myself and Nate.
I feel strongly that issue MUST be resolved and the findings be made public. Reputations and livelihoods are at stake. Not to mention our own journalistic integrity is being questioned.
Wave rod is our client and since I personally sold Jeremy advertising space, I feel an absolute obligation to uncover the truth. If he is innocent and the charges false, then lets hear his side.
However, if he is guilty? Then our readers must be informed. I also consider the commissions I made from him to be dirty money and I want to no part of it. In fact , if Jeremy is PROVEN guilty, then action will be taken to repay some of advertising commissions earned to those who he ripped off.
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Actually, Bill, you shouldn't take any questioning of your journalistic ethics seriously. There aren't any real journalistic ethics anymore. Clay can do what he wants, and so can you. I'd pull their advertising from Ke Nalu, but I'm too lazy to go sell any. But journalistic ethics are so far out of whack that no one can recognize real ones, much less criticize them. In the big world of traditional advertising, there was a wall between editorial and advertising. Period. The better the publication, the thicker that wall was, and in some rare cases, still is. The wall is there because advertising shouldn't influence editorial. But it works the other way around as well. If an editor came to the guys in ad sales and said "you shouldn't run ads for that guy, I just wrote an article demonstrating that he's a crook" the ad sales guys would pants him, paint his nuts purple and send him crying back to his crummy little office.
If I buy an advertisement in a rag, I can get the editors to write an article about the product. And I like that just fine because I'm a slimy ad guy. But my impression of the publication is that it's crap, and everyone else knows it too. Don't mistake that for some ethical golden age, there was plenty of underhand stuff going on. But you had to be powerful, rich, or well-connected to make it work for you. My boss used to say "don't piss off people who buy ink by the barrel". But now a barrel of internet ink is free. Call it the democratization of influence peddling.
In the internet world I could buy an ad on a page and place a story at the same time, with links between them, and the publication would sell me space in their newsletter to pump the readership, and a feature box on the home page, or maybe the whole cover. It wasn't any less sleazy, and of course it compromised editorial ethics, but there was so much inventory and so few buyers that even serious publications changed the rules. Take a look at the New York Times internet version. Sold out up and down. The world has changed a lot, TV news is all about sleazy stories about vicious morons that somehow serve to gain eyeballs to sell advertising. And then there's all that "news" about what's happening on the network's version of "American Idol" and some "stories" that shill for the crappy reality show that's going to follow the "news".
Even without that context, getting wrapped around the axle about conversations on the Zone is beyond silly. This is a forum, a place where people say what's on their mind. There are no rules other than don't really piss off Randy or Chan. Which is EXACTLY as it should be. It's a party. Don't piss off the hosts. Don't be rude.
Magazines on the internet have no real editorial ethics. If an "article" is written by the manufacturer of a product with links to let you buy it, then there's a big divide that's already been crossed. I'm not criticizing you or your publication--or Clay's, or mine. I'm saying the rules haven't just changed, they've pretty much evaporated. Until some nice clear new ones emerge, I'd say don't worry about it. Unless it makes a good story.
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"However, to be honest, our efforts to gather facts on this issue were actually hindered when the standup zone decided to delete the thread from two months ago. On that thread Jeremy posted several times, he made claims to his innocence and promises as to how he would address this issue. Yet as professional journalists we can’t hold him accountable, because his words and promises were erased from public record. Obviously Blane and now Joe, have again restated their side, However, Jeremy has not and since his previous words were censored and deleted we lost valuable KEY EVIDENCE."
I was involved with both Sean Ordonez and Joe Blair in developing their SUP shapes...prolly spent hundreds of hours on the phone and between visits with these guys...both of these guys are truly artistes...
Sean and I had lots of late night conversations on the phone in 2006 when JF started pursuing him to purchase a couple of boards in July, 2006...I had a vested interest in protecting our business products...
Here's some KEY EVIDENCE to that fact...I have a pretty interesting email in my INBOX archives...
Sent: Thursday, July 20, 2006 3:45 PM
Subject: RE: Big Red
"Jeremy Fry" <waterfall@kauaikayaktour DOT com> wrote:
> Aloha,
> What are the prices for the Big Red & the Big Blue?
> Thank you
> Jeremy
Sean responded with pricing...
Then JF responded...
Subject:
Re: Big Red
From:
"Jeremy Fry" <waterfall@kauaikayaktour DOT com>
Date:
Wed, 2 Aug 2006 17:52:30 -1000
To:
<SOshapes@cs DOT com>
"Hey Sean,
Thank you for the reply, I was interested in getting your stand up padlle board or, a Jimmy Lewis & I saw the Jimmy today for the first time. It is pretty nice, but a little light.
I want to order 2 stand up paddle boards from you if the price is right. I know you have a buisness to run, but if you could give me a discount for ordering 2 boards(boards only with fins) I will get yours without even seeing them. I am pretty much ready to do this just so I do not have to deal with the wishy, washy, spaced out dealer for Jimmy over here on Kauai. Where are you located? I may be coming over to Oahu if you have any locations over there. Let me know ASAP.
Aloha
Jeremy"
Intent?
You be the judge...you connect the dots...but, some may think, if he knew how to shape...wouldn't he shape his own SUP?
SO has always been sensitive to people knocking off his work...it's out of the box and it works...
If it's ever happened to you, then you'd know how he feels...I certainly do...it's happened to both of us a number of times...it makes SO nauseous and slightly paranoid, it pisses me off...
"I feel strongly that issue MUST be resolved and the findings be made public. Reputations and livelihoods are at stake. Not to mention our own journalistic integrity is being questioned.
Wave rod is our client and since I personally sold Jeremy advertising space, I feel an absolute obligation to uncover the truth. If he is innocent and the charges false, then lets hear his side.
However, if he is guilty? Then our readers must be informed."
"journalistic integrity"...hmmmmm...;-)
Someone else was just credited by a national news organization, referenced in another thread on this forum, of opening "the first fully dedicated SUP shop in the country" ,a full year after we did it in the same town...I'm sure several people overl@@Ked it, and didn't speak up, even though they knew the truth...I'd call that journalistic subjectivity...
Wasn't that partially why the iconic newsman, Dan Rather, was fired?
Not vetting his story...
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I hear what you are saying Bill and sadly agree ethics (for most) in journalism are a thing of the past.
I'm saying the rules haven't just changed, they've pretty much evaporated. Until some nice clear new ones emerge
That is why I have to rely on my own personal and professional ethics and integrity to guide me through difficult situations like this.
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Who ultimately decides the guy's guilt? Most of us who have read these threads side w/ the original shapers. The sad truth is it probably matters not to him. Character is what you do when people don't know and aren't looking. There is no penalty for the absence of character other than to be ostracized by this community but it doesn't appear the guilty party ever cared what the community thought; he merely wanted to profit from the work of others.
I'd love to see true investigative journalism here and in many other venues but I agree that "journalism" has gone the way of sensationalistic pop culture transitory bs.
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I'd love to see true investigative journalism here and in many other venues but I agree that "journalism" has gone the way of sensationalistic pop culture transitory bs.
Just a side note, not a hi-jack. This is what I worry about the news papers failing. I don't read them as much any more, but that is where the true investigative jounalism has always been. The Watergate scandal is the first one that comes to mind, but there are hundreds of others, local, national,& international. Without the news papers uncovering these issues, where would we be?
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Actually, right here, on forums. They are doing better and better (and worse and worse) jobs of exposing critical issues. If watergate happened today Deep Throat would have a blog and he'd be swapping cloaked emails with Drudge.
Newspapers were the only way to shine a little light in the dark corners for a long time, but no longer. Newspapers are failing because they thought for too long that they were in the paper and ink biz, while really those were just expenses. Not many newspapers are making the transition, but that's how creative destruction works.
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aloha
I suggest that since Jeremy fry is an active member of the jehovah witness clan here on kauai that you and all of those who state you were ripped off, professionally prepare your case and present it to his church leaders here.
I do believe that if what you say is true, the witness clan will help you in resolving the dispute as his actions are a direct reflection on the group as a whole. I also believe that the powers at be in the Jehovah Witness group will not tolerate their image being tarnished (if your claims are true).
Your web commentaries are not going to hurt his sales, nor are you going to get any resolution by wasting your time stating your case to the world on the web.
In fact your probably helping him as most of his clients are price point types, these are people who could care less that your a true craftsman , hes a business man who went to china with some gear and modified it. While u wine , hes making money and living his dreams.
If what you folks claim is the truth you as a hui (a group) should seek legal counsel. Its real simple , if Mr.Fry is found guilty of what you claim he will be forced to pay up. But if you settled for a licensing agreement youd be lame and a sell out, so if u speak the truth you should defend your craft and you should seek damages and a cease and desist.
if you take no firm action , no one really knows the truth , and it appears that you are simply crying the blues and wasting your time . No one who buys his boards gives a hoot that several of you caim to be be getting screwed. in fact they do not even know this thread exists.
In fact several people here hate stand up surfing because of a few people of little talent that are hogging up way more than their fare share of waves. I sure hope that you guys begin to police your own,because the publicity is not really what you want.and someone is going to be seriously injured.this greed will be the ultimate demise of what you love to do!
So Joe if your claims are true your just whistling dixie on the web , but if its the truth and youve been damaged there is some attorney who would be more than willing to take your case.
But be warned if your case is not true you and your group is slandering a competitor, you will have to face the consequenses.
So as they saying goes, either put up or shut up!
Times certainly have changed havent they!!
I remember back when you were a windsurfer/surfer and made me a board , your heart and soul was what produced it, this whole thing with name shapers doing business in china is wrong as follows:
A: the equipment is simply knocked off and replicated.
B: the shapers involved are greedy, they dont put their hands to the foam, they simply buy it for 1/3rd the cost, slap their label on it and sell it for the same profit spread, but at the end of the day its not a hand crafted item, they did not make it , simple, and i feel the same about computer shapes.
C: this practice steals from the american worker, and our country as a whole.
D: this practice promotes substandard wage/sweatshop type factories which in some case may even be getting tax breaks from their government to send their products to dumb americans.
E: Even worse there is no environmental control there , so the waste products end up in landfills , in rivers, the ocean and the atmosphere which has a global affect.
F: And to top it off by buying from china we are making them the worlds strongest country, both financially and very soon militarily. so while we are on one hand buying cheap clothes, boards , shirts and everything from wal mart, we are actually simply screwing ourselves.
G: So we better teach our kids chinese so that they will be able to do what they are told when china takes over america .
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Barrels, I can't say much for your spelling or grammar, but I like your thought process.
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Barrels, I can't say much for your spelling or grammar, but I like your thought process.
spelling and grammar?
comeon....dis iz da internat brah, we dont doo spelling and grammer!
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I just stumbled onto this thread and have to say I'm floored. I was wondering how Sean was doing and why I have not been seeing his boards around more.
Sean is a MASTER bulider, considered a bit of a maveric in Maui for being so ahead of the curve and coming up with new ideas. He is more of a pioneer in SUP than many prople realize, he was into is LONG before anyone else (he and JL) having production boards, but the SOS shapes rocked, in their day there was nothing even close, design and construction. Sean designed the manufacturing for SUP at Sumitomo, and I might add, others have benifieted greatly from his efforts.
A few years ago I was selling boards for Jimmy Lewis on the Big Island, some of the first batches of production boards to hit there. I was not impressed with the construction and started talking to Sean and got a batch to sell, some Blues and Greens, about seven total, including one for me. When I recieved my boards from him I could not believe the quality, it was in a whole different league than anything I had ever seen.
Soon after this I saw a suspiciously identical model out there by Ian Foo (Hyper) and started to wonder. I think they had an agreement, at least I hope so. Ians were much cheaper and that was the last I saw of SOS.
Anyway, back when I was working with Sean it was fully cash up front because he had recently been burned buy a business partner, on the sailboard side and all but wiped him out. To hear THIS has happened now is pritty upsetting. Sean should be reaping the belifiets from being a visionary, and taking the risks before anyone else. Not this. This guy has no Idea what he has done. I don't believe in karma, but you do reap what you sow, and that is more absolute.
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Sean designed the manufacturing for SUP at Sumitomo, and I might add, others have benifieted greatly from his efforts.
Is the Sumitomo factory still producing boards? We had heard a while back that they had called it quits, possibly to open again on a smaller scale. Is that correct?
Sean is for sure an innovator. I did not know that he had set up the process there. That makes a lot of sense.
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I got back into making my own boards several years ago after my overseas built sailboards with famous names on them crapped out. They are probably built a little better now but I'm glad it happened. Now I can have any shape, materials, construction, and weight to volume ratio I wish.
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Sean designed the manufacturing for SUP at Sumitomo, and I might add, others have benifieted greatly from his efforts.
Is the Sumitomo factory still producing boards? We had heard a while back that they had called it quits, possibly to open again on a smaller scale. Is that correct?
Sean is for sure an innovator. I did not know that he had set up the process there. That makes a lot of sense.
Sumitomo didn't own the factory used to build Sean's boards. Bill Foote knows Sumitomo really good and can give accurate info. Sumitomo builds good stuff for sure. I was in a deal with a Japanese guy that used Sumitomo. Sumitomo held up his end of the deal but this other guy. ::) ::) The ONLY good thing that came out of the deal was the quality of the boards.
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Mr. Sumitomo had to claim bankrupcy in Japan due to the fact that his Japanese finance company went under and the money was cut off. He is doing well, happy to be retired, and surfing alot more...His son Yu, has set up a new buisiness in China called Tonbi Surf and is making boards on a smaller scale using his fathers technology...
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Im withya TD
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I thought Sean said Sumitomo, maybe not and I was assuming something, it was two years ago at least... I would like to know who it was, best built boards ever IMO. He discussed a long time relationship as they also built sailboards for him, and things they were doing different than most people, like paint w/ the proper primer. They had a thin PU clear coat which really made the colors pop. Also a good amount of flex and memory per the manufacture (wish I could remember what he said, it was origional at the time). You could lay a board bottom up and jump on it and it and it would just bounce back. Some of the manufacturing he said was proprietary to SOS. Anyway, take it all with a grain of salt, it was a long time ago and I had a big two years, maybe lost some memes. ::)
One thing I know for sure, it is these sailboard guys, like Sean, who got into SUP building and brought it to another level. Sailboards have always been at the leading edge of surfcraft manufacturing. We should all be thankful for what technology these guys bring into it.
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Sorry, didn't make it clear. Sean did build with Sumitomo but Sumitomo never owned the factory. They used Bentley. Sumitomo left Bentley a while after the SOS boards were made there. Like Bill said, his son is now doing boards at a different factory and the product is still the good Sumitomo quality.
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I'd say Joe Blair made a great move stating his case here. It's not rocket science and you don't need a judge and jury to see the truth. The input by the other shapers adds valuable context and perspective. This is a great example of an industry self regulating itself without relying on the bureaucratic cross chop of the legal system. It sends an effective message thru the industry that this won't be tolerated. Maybe the perp doesn't care, maybe some beginner SUPer will ignorantly buy a wave rod because of its' cheap price point; but enough people who really matter have been informed by this discussion to spread the word in a manner that will significantly affect the outcome of this incident, and deter similar incidents in the future.
Should it go to court? It's not a bad idea, but the legal system sometimes has a way of wasting time and money better spent in a positive manner moving forward. I'm impressed by how Blair and the other craftsmen have handled this thus far without resorting to the whimsical legal system. Call it 'frontier justice' or whatever you want; but sometimes nature has the best way of serving justice.
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this forum by itself will act as the SUPreme court :D
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Crap like this really pisses me off. Fry, you're a lazy ass scumbag, sleazeball, coward, POS. Come out of your hole and face the heat like a real man.
In the meantime we should all pass the word to boycott Waverod SUP's.
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As far as court goes, I consider lawyers to be like nuclear weapons. If your enemy has one then you need one, but you don't want to use it. If you do it will be painful, costly, lots of innocent people will be hurt, and no one will win (except maybe the lawyers).
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It's amazing what people do to undermine someone's hard work and then copy it and try to make money with it.
I'm really glad you educated us about this nightmare. The world is too small for a guy like Jeremy Fry to hide.
Now it all makes sense, why he left Kuai to move back to San Diego.
That really sucks and i fully agree that this SUP community can make a major difference and shut guys like this down.
This sport has a solid community and we are all behind you Blair and Sean.
keep up the hard work,
Aloha to all,
Chuck P
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I saw the ad on Craigs List San Diego... It was very vague as to whether or not the ad was for a warehouse of boards... or some guy with just a few. I responded to the ad stating that I understood that these boards were stolen designs and that as an attorney admitted to the Bar in the State of California, it would be a good idea for the seller to destroy the boards rather than put himself at risk for distributing stolen intellectual property. Let's just say that the reply that I received back was unkind. In my reply I provided my bar number (178059) and made myself available to answer any questions that he may have concerning the legality of selling these boards. Clearly, it was JF... but he called himself WRH... here is the e-mail:
You have no idea what you are talking about, these SUP's are not stolen shapes from Joe Blair or any other shaper. If you are an attorney which I highly doubt(are you threatening me by saying "Putting my self at risk"), you should know better than anyone about false accusations & hearsay.
WRH
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Stand Up Paddle Board - $800 (Cardiff)
From: "Timothy M. Ryan" <tryan@theryanfirm.com>
Date: Fri, June 19, 2009 1:37 pm
To: <sale-4s68v-1217693435@craigslist.org>
** CRAIGSLIST ADVISORY --- AVOID SCAMS BY DEALING LOCALLY
** Avoid: wiring money, cross-border deals, work-at-home
** Beware: cashier checks, money orders, escrow, shipping
** More Info: http://www.craigslist.org/about/scams.html (http://www.craigslist.org/about/scams.html)
Are these boards wave rods? If they are you need to destroy them. I understand that these designs were stolen from Joe Blair. By selling these boards you are putting yourself at risk.
Thanks,
Tim
Timothy M. Ryan
The Ryan Firm, APC
1100 N. Tustin Avenue, Suite 200
Anaheim, CA 92807
714-666-1362
714-666-1443 Fax
NOTICE: This email message is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain information that is confidential and protected from disclosure by the attorney-client privilege, as attorney work product, or by other applicable privileges. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply email and destroy all copies of the original message.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
this message was remailed to you via: sale-4s68v-1217693435@craigslist.org
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can you post a link to the craigslist ad?
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Looks like he has expanded his "business". I asked the guy if this was the same guy that does the Standup Boards, and he said he thought so....
http://losangeles.craigslist.org/wst/spo/1228498299.html (http://losangeles.craigslist.org/wst/spo/1228498299.html)
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Holy cow, this is amazing. i could go on for hours about some of the calls I have received. There is some serious time that has been put into this thread. i never thought that this was possible and this truly is an example the internet working amazing things.
Nate- I would suggest you just ignore my board story because my boards are not advertised on your site. Please call Sean O and ask him for yourself how he feels about seeing the Waverod boards advertised on your site. I understand your point about proven.
“In our reporting, we continue to do our very best to stay neutral and honest about what we see in equipment, industry, etc., and we feel an obligation to do so. We are not a blog (online journal) where is acceptable to post personal gripes and opinions. We are an informational news source. To maintain the integrity of the magazine and the integrity of the industry, we choose not to participate in muckraking.”
This is never going to happen with Sean and he left SUP because of this. Sean is not going to prove anything, he is just going to fade away and into his love of shaping and people that respect his spaces. Your commitment is not to your advertisers but rather to your readers and this you have this backwards. Your readers – based on the Sean O story have lost you and your logic. This is not muckracking, is is clearing. Again – forget about my story – only read Sean O’s and you will have your answer.
Nate- Also please read carefully the note from Wardog. These were actually emails for Jeremy to Wardog about Sean’s boards and right before the duplicates were made.
If you want to do the matter justice - then look into it. Your first call should be to Sean since his boards are on your site.
I also want to say that I am responsible for this thread and that was why I put my message out with Sean’s. There is a reason that I put my telephone number on the bottom of the thread. If any want s to threaten anyone, I am homebase. I have lived a shapers live and I have a lawyer that is willing to defend me. I am lucky that I have friends that I have and again especially a lawyer that I have been shaping boards for 25 years.
Surf9 –I am your neighbor – Joe Blair – I PUT MY TELEPHONE NUMBER AT THE BOTTOM OF THE LETTER BECAUSE MY NEIGHBOR IS FREE TO CALL ME ANYTIME OR STOP BY SEE ME PERSONALLY
Surf9 – I respect your post - Again, please feel free to call me
“If I have a problem with my neighbor, family, friend or a business associate, I go to them personally. If they do not respond or respond and I am not satisfied with their response what do or should I do. The wrong thing to do is then go to all my neighbors, friends, other family members and or other business owners and air my grievance about the other person.”
Just as a matter of note- SEAN and I called Jeremy many many times as his “NEIGHBOR”
I have also had calls about some of Jeremy’s surfboards. I wonder who designed those. Jermey, did you shape these?
I love the line "Western Frontier Justice". I goal of this is rather online justice.
I am learning a great deal about this and how the online world works. i knew it was revolutionary but I never had an idea.
Beyond my own issues with Jeremy, I think the greatest thing about this entire thread is what it has done for Sean O. I have several calls for Sean and I cannot say what this has meant for him.
Thanks for all the Aloha everyone, as much as this was about Blair – Sean O and Jeremy/Waverod – it has actually turned into being more about us as a community.
Mahalo,
Joe Blair
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Thanks Joe. I'll have another read of Sean O's story and Wardog's. One of the big questions about all this is where to start, PSH, Sean O, You...there are so many pieces. I'll go over Sean's stuff again and start there. Aloha.
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Surf9 –I am your neighbor – Joe Blair – I PUT MY TELEPHONE NUMBER AT THE BOTTOM OF THE LETTER BECAUSE MY NEIGHBOR IS FREE TO CALL ME ANYTIME OR STOP BY SEE ME PERSONALLY
Surf9 – I respect your post - Again, please feel free to call me
“If I have a problem with my neighbor, family, friend or a business associate, I go to them personally. If they do not respond or respond and I am not satisfied with their response what do or should I do. The wrong thing to do is then go to all my neighbors, friends, other family members and or other business owners and air my grievance about the other person.”
Just as a matter of note- SEAN and I called Jeremy many many times as his “NEIGHBOR”
Mahalo Joe. I would love to ride one of your boards. Does anyone in Hawaii stock them?
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Thanks Joe. I'll have another read of Sean O's story and Wardog's. One of the big questions about all this is where to start, PSH, Sean O, You...there are so many pieces. I'll go over Sean's stuff again and start there. Aloha.
yeah, just pick one. i mean, it's not like there are that many players. and imo (ymmv) it's what you should have done in the first place. well, better late than never.
joe: great, lucid, inspiring post! and i'm truly thankful that you and sean o have seen some light out of all this. keep up the good work!
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I responded to the ad stating that I understood that these boards were stolen designs and that as an attorney admitted to the Bar in the State of California, it would be a good idea for the seller to destroy the boards rather than put himself at risk for distributing stolen intellectual property.
Wow, Tim that's quite a leap. I'm sure as a lawyer you recognize the likelihood of anyone going after the owners or resellers of these boards is slim to none, and if they did choose to take legal action the likelihood of prevailing is nearly zero.
I admire Joe though I haven't met him, and greatly like Sean who I have met. I'd never buy a board from Waverod, won't review them in Ke Nalu and in the unlikely event that I ever accept advertising, won't accept it from Jeremy. But telling someone they need to destroy their board rather than sell it, especially since this issue only came to light recently and their purchase was probably completely innocent, is really overstepping. I'd tell you to take a hike too.
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Surf9 -
I have my boards at Wetfeet on Oahu for demo. If you are on another island, give me a buzz 760-809-9074 so I can help you out.
Aloha, Bra
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If Fry had any dignity he would donate his boards to schools for the kids to learn on, get out of the business, maybe sell vacuum cleaners.
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holy shit....he is here...
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Pono,
The point of the e-mail was to get a reply and see the tone of the reply and to put the seller on constructive notice that he was likely trafficking in stolen property. IMHO, If he was an innocent retailer, his reply would have been much, much different. I think that his reply identified him as Fry. Nonetheless, knowingly trafficking in stolen property, intellectual or otherwise is actionable by the victim of the theft. By sending him the e-mail, I put him on contructive notice... meaning, he didn't know for sure because I could have been full of Sh**, but at that point had the duty of a "reasonable person" to determine if my statement was true. By not investigating and continuing to sell thereafter, he was "putting himself at risk."
Tim
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Its been awhile.
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Sorry to hear about your experience with jeremy. If it makes you feel any better, I also have been stripped of my innovations and ideas like you. I helped unload a container of Wave Rods on Topsail Island, NC and was briefly a dearler/distributor. The 9'11" x 30" "The Next Level" was taken from me, after I attended the surf expo in Orlando, FL. During my time with them, I explained how I would like to have my own line of boards from every boardsport and it would be called "Next Level Board Sports." And my motto,"Take your skills to the next level!" Sounds familiar huh. Anyway, you have a ton of people behind you, I hope this helps you in your quest of resolutions.
I included a link to a gallery to assure the audience Im no kook!
http://www.uniquemediadesign.com/galleries/surfing-surf-city-pier-4-15-09/ (http://www.uniquemediadesign.com/galleries/surfing-surf-city-pier-4-15-09/)
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NXLVL not sure what your point is here could you please explain ?
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BTW...They Surf here for the summer, and besides being apart of the summer influx, there not a problem...
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NXLVL not sure what your point is here could you please explain ?
Sorry to hear about your experience with jeremy. If it makes you feel any better, I also have been stripped of my innovations and ideas like you. I helped unload a container of Wave Rods on Topsail Island, NC and was briefly a dearler/distributor. The 9'11" x 30" "The Next Level" was taken from me, after I attended the surf expo in Orlando, FL. During my time with them, I explained how I would like to have my own line of boards from every boardsport and it would be called "Next Level Board Sports." And my motto,"Take your skills to the next level!" Sounds familiar huh. Anyway, you have a ton of people behind you, I hope this helps you in your quest of resolutions.
I included a link to a gallery to assure the audience Im no kook!
http://www.uniquemediadesign.com/galleries/surfing-surf-city-pier-4-15-09/ (http://www.uniquemediadesign.com/galleries/surfing-surf-city-pier-4-15-09/)
Sounds like NXLVL is saying that he worked for WaveRod and they stole a tag line from him. Is that right? Bummer, not as easy to prove as a board copy.
NXLVL, I think you should still do it. It's not like anyone will remember WaveRod soon.....
By the way, I love this picture, I hope that it is ok that I post it here.
Southbay
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Thnx, you pretty much said it. Im not looking for compensation, just credit where's credit is due. I believe Mr. Blair would agree, just put on every wave rod that is his shape "joe blair shapes." That would have been the ethical thing to do.
Thanks for the picture post, one of my favorites also. Post up the air pic, maybe Joe will put me on one of his quads!
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Great air shot.
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Sounds like NXLVL is saying that he worked for WaveRod and they stole a tag line from him. Is that right? Bummer, not as easy to prove as a board copy.
As a guy who made his living writing ad copy I'd say that's hardly a big deal. If I had a nickel for every tag line or idea that was stolen from me I'd have way too many nickels, if I gave one back for every idea or tag line I stole I'd probably be in the hole. Plagiarism is the real mother of invention. Ideas are important, but they're hard to protect, and they come from everywhere. Hard to say what the source is, though if I never see another guy sitting in an easy chair with his tie blown back from the sound of his stereo it will be much too soon.
I know a guy in the "Ad Biz" who's claim to fame is that he came up with the line "Bud Clark is Serious". Wow. Another is proud of the line "you'll be missing something...<<pregnant pause>>...really good". Awesome. How did they do that?
It's the execution of the idea that matters.
The biggest puzzle in all of this continues to be that Jeremy seems to do the hard part so very well, and sleazed out on the easy stuff--and did it so poorly that he got caught. I'm not minimizing the talent required to shape a successful board, but I'm pretty certain I could knock off everyone's shapes and no one would ever know. After all, everyone is copying the folks that went before. The fins go on the bottom. The nose is pointy or round.
The really easy way would be to find one of the starving artist shapers and have him mow up some blanks and sign over the rights. I wouldn't even glass them, just ship them to China or Vietnam and presto--the Ke Nalu line.
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Hey Joe, ya old dinosaur, it's good to see you on the internet and I hope you are doing well with SUPs.
I was working at Channin when we started the KKL project. That was the 1st commecial CNC shaping machine in California. At that time Tony Channin received a lot of threats for making a shaping machine that was going to replace shapers. How times have changed.
One of the arguments at that time against the machine was that anybody could take a good board and have it copied. Most companies have been pretty good about honoring other peoples work, but with the globalization of production, there are always people who are looking to take short cuts to profit and glory. This is especially true when you are talking about off continent factories run by people who we will never see. There are too many individuals who are happy to fill up a container with knock-offs and wait for their money transfers to come through. We all need to be vigilant. Karma will always catch up.
How's ol Rod doing?
See ya in the water, Byron
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I like this shot.
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That SUSurfer should have his ass beaten for that wave! That is such a f*** kook move that it is ridiculous. Of course, if the shacked surfer had been hopping SUSurfer all morning... maybe a different story... but the beach, the lineup, and everyone else who saw that move would likely not know the backstory either. Not cool. Not cool at all.
SL
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That SUSurfer should have his ass beaten for that wave! That is such a f*** kook move that it is ridiculous. Of course, if the shacked surfer had been hopping SUSurfer all morning... maybe a different story... but the beach, the lineup, and everyone else who saw that move would likely not know the backstory either. Not cool. Not cool at all.
SL
Relax! If you look @ the sequence, you will see that the surfer in the box was happy to see me, see him, in the barrel. He was stoked, not pissed! Dont worry, I share more than I take, for the sake of our good name"stand up paddle boarders." I dont want people to hate us. We already have more fun than anybody else out there!
http://www.uniquemediadesign.com/galleries/surfing-surf-city-pier-4-15-09/ (http://www.uniquemediadesign.com/galleries/surfing-surf-city-pier-4-15-09/)
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I may be way out in left field on this, but the wave most recent photo looks to be breaking in a very unusual way between the two surfers. Hmm ....
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The SUSurfer crumbled the wave... that is why it looks like two waves. I should probably relax... but I was shortboarding most of the weekend so I am more aggro than ALHOA at this point... Maybe by the end of the week I will be able to share in the spirit of the ALOHA of the SUSurfer completely ruining a potential in and out barrel for the shortboarder... but right now, I just see a greedy SUSurfer who completely hosed a shortboarder.
SL
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NEXLVL or should I say Mike,
1st you should not have droped in on Gus but I guess you could be glad it wasnt Humpy
2nd thats not your peak as stated in another thread its Joeys always has been and always will be
3rd I will be giving you plenty of crap for calling yourself NEXLVL the PFD thing will be laid to rest thanks for the ammo
4th where were you at sat morning the inlet was firing at double overhead + just me and soulman and a couple people joined us later in the morning, that sUP is great for exploring when we have swell get out and look
Chris
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Okay, ... I just realized that I can get out in the water on my new (to me) 8'0" SubVector tonight. I am stoked. It's all good. Glad you were having fun, glad he was having fun. Peace, love and Bobby Sherman.
SL
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i just saw this add in long island craigs list.
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As far as the pic of NXLVL dropping in on the shoulder of the short boarder in the barrel goes, no matter what the back story is, it makes SUPing look bad.
It's very easy to view a picture like that out of context. Maybe they are both bros and cool but when pics like that get posted or published, 99.9 percent of shortboarders are gonna have a very negative reaction to it.
Just something to think about...
See ya in the water, Byron
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NEXLVL or should I say Mike,
1st you should not have droped in on Gus but I guess you could be glad it wasnt Humpy
2nd thats not your peak as stated in another thread its Joeys always has been and always will be
3rd I will be giving you plenty of crap for calling yourself NEXLVL the PFD thing will be laid to rest thanks for the ammo
4th where were you at sat morning the inlet was firing at double overhead + just me and soulman and a couple people joined us later in the morning, that sUP is great for exploring when we have swell get out and look
Chris
1st- i didnt see guss & i felt bad, until he gave me that hell-yeah!
2nd- its my peak when joey & hump aint there, and im on the sup!=}
3rd- i like the pfd cracks better.
4th- had to work, got off @ 4 and went out at the pier catchin my own bombs. too bad though, no pics to prove. Thnx for the support chum!
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Okay, ... I just realized that I can get out in the water on my new (to me) 8'0" SubVector tonight. I am stoked. It's all good. Glad you were having fun, glad he was having fun. Peace, love and Bobby Sherman.
SL
8' subvector, really? I wanted the 9'3" but felt it was to much float (i weigh 150) Would love to hear about it unless we're talking about something other than C4 waterman.
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NXLVL,
I watched you catch a couple on sat afternoon and yes some were bombs. One left in paticular
I will give credit where credit is due and not all was great at the inlet I snapped my leash around noon and had to swim from the channel markers :D
Chris
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Even though this thread seems to be straying, it's been linked on www.surfdalake.com (http://www.surfdalake.com)
These boards could surface in our area at some point.
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This guy's here on Kauai and his boards have been largely ignored - not purchased - here. Word's out about his alleged rip-offs of Sean and Joe's boards. Besides, Wave Rod/808 boards just seem tacky and plastic. What comes around goes around...
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Since I have 6, yes SIX, Joe Blair stand up Boards for my SUP quiver, I would like to say a few words about Joe.
The first time I met Joe four years ago, after seeing someone ripping on his board at PB Point in San Diego, I went up to his shop. Never met him before, he gave me a board, and his parking pass to Cardiff State Beach, and said go try the board. Now thats aloha spirit. After paddle surfing for 2 hours, I came back and you can deduce the rest.
Joe is honest, hard working, down to earth, fair and really cares about customers getting a great board.
When you surf his SUPs, it becomes very apparent that he puts his heart and soul into EVERY LITTLE ASPECT of the board to make it surf,rip, noseride,turn well,etc.
There is a thread about Noseriding on this website, and the blue and white Blair SUP in THIS thread is one of my Blair boards. All I can say is this.... When you can paddle, catch a wave . walk up the nose, plant ten over, then keep padding while having ten over, I THINK YOU MIGHT HAVE A GREAT NOSERIDER. If you don't believe me, call me at 619-599-6490 and we'll meet IN PB or La Jolla and you can go out on this board. Fun !
Thank you Joe for your aloha and the great boards , especially the 8' 6" quad that rips, people are amazed !!!
It really sucks that a hard working man, supporting his family just like you and me, gets screwed by someone else !
Brent Larkin
Nothin's changed, Joe even stopped by the beach and gave me a few tips, he is still stoked !
Joe is the "Real Deal!", so refreshing in a world full of hype, bs and the internets, and boy does the board WORK!!!
Thanks again for helping me get started Joe! Aloha!
Rich
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Look carefully at the wave it looks like a photoshop to me because the white water that is breaking is flat on the face of the wave and the path of the sup seems to originate form the right side of the picture A wave that hollow wouldn't be flat and rolling adjacent to where the sup rider is and the water color from the right side of the sup is slightly different form the short boarder forward to the sup I think photoshop
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Nah.
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They had a traveling road show at Northern Californian Costco's this summer.
This is Jeremy's younger brother manning the booth.
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I was just wondering what happened to WaveRod SUP's and our "old Buddy" Jeremy. There were a few back here in NJ a few years ago but the "disappeared" from the shelves about the starting time of this thread
now you guys are (showing pictures) of his brother selling "dubious no name" SUP's in a Costco in Nor Cali.
Does that mean
a) Costco bought said boards (and needs to be enlightened)?
b) Costco "rents out space" to questionable business men to sell under their roof?
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http://honolulu.craigslist.org/mau/spo/2663820589.html (http://honolulu.craigslist.org/mau/spo/2663820589.html)
looks like could be the same stuff
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Does that mean
a) Costco bought said boards (and needs to be enlightened)?
b) Costco "rents out space" to questionable business men to sell under their roof?
B.
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My friends wife does merchandising for Costco and is currently working with Starboard for them to be selling their boards there.
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My friends wife does merchandising for Costco and is currently working with Starboard for them to be selling their boards there.
Do you have to buy four of them shrink wrapped together?
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Starboard and Costco could be a good fit--a high-volume retailer, and high-volume boards.
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Kinda ironic. No way would I buy a no-name board at Costco, mostly because I doubt it would perform. OTOH, this guy gives Blair a few bucks per board for the use of his shapes and name and I'd buy a couple.
I bet the publicity ends up benifiting this jerk. If you've got no scuples, you can pick up a first rate shape at a bargain bin price.
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So are those Blair boards at the Costco pictured above and in the Craigslist link (Wailuku)?
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"Hey Joe
Where you going with that gun in your hand?
Hey Joe
Now tell me where you going with that gun in your hand."
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So are those Blair boards at the Costco pictured above and in the Craigslist link (Wailuku)?
No. Unauthorized clones.
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Saw some at the carlsbad lagoon, and showed Joe the pics, he says this batch is not an "exact" copy, the rocker, rails and tail have changed, even though they still "look like" a Blair...with these changes they sure won't work like one though, wish Costco had the real thing in the beginning!
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edit - never mind