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The Foil Zone => Wingsurfing, Windfoiling, Wingfoiling, Wing SUP => Topic started by: kwhilden on June 29, 2022, 06:44:22 PM

Title: Latest thinking on preventing corrosion
Post by: kwhilden on June 29, 2022, 06:44:22 PM
I'm about to start my foiling career, and want to hear the best practices on preventing corrosion. 

I'm using a Starboard foil system, which has a lot of stainless steel bolts, an aluminum fuselage, and carbon foils. 
https://starboardfoils.com/pages/2022-wing-and-wave-foils-overview (https://starboardfoils.com/pages/2022-wing-and-wave-foils-overview)

It would be a pain to disassemble and rinse every bolt after every saltwater session.  There are a lot of bolts.

I'm keen to figure out which bolts I have to rinse every time, and which bolts can be left for an extended period with proper application of a anti-corrosion substance.

Without thinking too much, I bought some marine grease off Amazon. Is this any good, or is there a better product?
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002V3KD2O/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1 (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002V3KD2O/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1)

Thanks all!
Title: Re: Latest thinking on preventing corrosion
Post by: sflinux on June 29, 2022, 07:14:53 PM
Grease all the connections.  AFter a while you will figure out which connections are more convenient to leave connected.  Disassemble the entire rig at least once a season to reapply grease.  The connections that you routinely use, apply grease as needed.  No need to rinse.  If dirty, just wipe off with a rag.  Try to avoid sand from getting into bolt threads.  The whole point of grease is to prevent connections from seizing.  Replace any bolts where the tool end looses integrity (i.e.e stripped).
For aluminum (non painted), I like to apply a buffing compound.  For scrapes on aluminum, I use a file to smooth.
Carbon does not like heat, so make sure it is convered while stored in a vehicle.
That marine grease looks fine.  I have used white bicycle grease with success (I like the smell of it).
Title: Re: Latest thinking on preventing corrosion
Post by: surfcowboy on June 29, 2022, 08:10:18 PM
Don't overthink it.

Use any of the methods discussed on here and it's fine. You really have to leave it forever to have issues. I take my stuff apart maybe every 3 months. Maybe.

Pretty sure there are long threads on here about this.
Title: Re: Latest thinking on preventing corrosion
Post by: PonoBill on June 29, 2022, 10:04:05 PM
Tefgel. I have a 2 ounce container that I've owned for probably ten years. It's still full though I use it all the time. I apply it with a mascara brush. A tiny amount lasts for months or even years. Stainless wants to gall when screwed into stainless or aluminum. Tefgel eliminates that. Get TefGel and stop paying attention to the issue entirely.
Title: Re: Latest thinking on preventing corrosion
Post by: tarquin on June 29, 2022, 10:27:02 PM
I have been working on boats all my life and there is nothing like Tefgel. Other things like grease will work but bolts can vibrate loose with grease. There used to be other products but they don't exist anymore.
 For the price you are paying for your foil gear it's not worth risking a bolt getting corroded and stuck or vibrating loose because it was greased.
 I have pulled things apart years later that were bolted in with Tefgel that look like they were bolted down yesterday.
Title: Re: Latest thinking on preventing corrosion
Post by: Wingfoil2001 on June 30, 2022, 12:37:07 AM
I grease all my connections, not just the screws. Vaseline works great and stops corrosion on not just the screw threads but the whole connection area. Yes, you may occasionally need to tighten the screws but thatís only once every few sessions. I rarely disassemble my foil, just a quick external rinse when I get home. Never had any corrosion.
Title: Re: Latest thinking on preventing corrosion
Post by: Dontsink on June 30, 2022, 03:51:36 AM
Tefgel as said above, formulated to break electrical current i think.
It is electrolysis that kills the alu.
Title: Re: Latest thinking on preventing corrosion
Post by: Badger on June 30, 2022, 03:53:15 AM
Don't waste your time with grease or other home remedies. Tef-Gel is the only way to go.

Put it everywhere that metal touches metal. Take the foil apart every six months just to check on it. Re-coat where needed.

Unlike grease, Tef-Gel is extremely sticky which helps prevent screws from coming loose. Two ounces is a lifetime supply.

https://www.amazon.com/Tef-Gel-TG-02-Anti-seize-Anyi-gull-Lubricant/dp/B00CEF65T4?pd_rd_w=lNaPA&content-id=amzn1.sym.bc622850-a717-4d94-96c3-7cc183488298&pf_rd_p=bc622850-a717-4d94-96c3-7cc183488298&pf_rd_r=CAP7QHT1YAMW86EYXKBX&pd_rd_wg=XoGQt&pd_rd_r=79e6a3f3-d945-44ad-af73-64e664e819b0&pd_rd_i=B00CEF65T4&psc=1&ref_=pd_bap_d_rp_16_t

Title: Re: Latest thinking on preventing corrosion
Post by: kwhilden on June 30, 2022, 06:40:41 AM
Thanks all.  I appreciate your time to respond.

One question... I will want to regularly change wings on my foil, and it will be easier to remove the wings for transport and storage.

So on those bolts, should I just use grease?  It sounds like tef-gel is quite sticky and not suited for repeated disassembly?
Title: Re: Latest thinking on preventing corrosion
Post by: unclesaltdog on June 30, 2022, 07:04:05 AM
Thanks all.  I appreciate your time to respond.

One question... I will want to regularly change wings on my foil, and it will be easier to remove the wings for transport and storage.

So on those bolts, should I just use grease?  It sounds like tef-gel is quite sticky and not suited for repeated disassembly?

Nuh stick (pardon the pun) with tefgel, just don't put much on, you only need a little bit.
Try not to drop the bolts in sand and you will be fine.
I'm swapping wings and fuses all the time.

The people that complain about tefgel are usually the ones that have spent a fortune on another brand of carbon foil and are trying to justify their purchase, it's really not that bad if you go easy.
Pono Bill's idea of using a mascara brush sounds like a good idea actually, I might try that one.
Title: Re: Latest thinking on preventing corrosion
Post by: tarquin on June 30, 2022, 07:35:01 AM
It should come with one.
Title: Re: Latest thinking on preventing corrosion
Post by: kwhilden on June 30, 2022, 11:01:58 AM
I just bought a 4oz tub of tef-gel on Amazon because it will be delivered quickly.  So if anyone needs a resupply, let me know.
Title: Re: Latest thinking on preventing corrosion
Post by: Caribsurf on June 30, 2022, 11:20:43 AM
Tefgel. I have a 2 ounce container that I've owned for probably ten years. It's still full though I use it all the time. I apply it with a mascara brush. A tiny amount lasts for months or even years. Stainless wants to gall when screwed into stainless or aluminum. Tefgel eliminates that. Get TefGel and stop paying attention to the issue entirely.

the mascara brush is genius Bill.  I have used tefgel since I started foiling 3 years ago and it's great.  I am a little messy with the syringe applicator and sometimes push too much, so the mascara brush I have to try.  Squeeze some onto cardboard and use the brush.
Title: Re: Latest thinking on preventing corrosion
Post by: jondrums on June 30, 2022, 12:00:29 PM
@clay once told me that he thinks TefGel is horrible for the ocean - essentially putting PTFE out into the world.    I gotta say though, it works wonderfully.  Clay has an alternative that he claims works just as well - maybe you can chime in?

Honestly, I'm not savvy enough to understand how the PTFE in TefGel is or isn't a serious issue, anyone here know more?  I did enough research to learn more about Perfluorinated Chemicals (PFCs) and PTFE is one of them.    These chemicals never break down and are increasing in prevalence in the world - essentially are an environmental disaster.  I care a lot about our oceans and want to do the right thing, but not always clear what that is.
Title: Re: Latest thinking on preventing corrosion
Post by: Fishman on June 30, 2022, 12:40:16 PM
Tefgel is great.
Only other nice, clean, long lasting option is wax. I use warm water board wax, wetsuit zipper wax/lube is ok too. Other greases are too messy in my opinion.
Title: Re: Latest thinking on preventing corrosion
Post by: tarquin on June 30, 2022, 01:12:37 PM
@clay once told me that he thinks TefGel is horrible for the ocean - essentially putting PTFE out into the world.    I gotta say though, it works wonderfully.  Clay has an alternative that he claims works just as well - maybe you can chime in?

Honestly, I'm not savvy enough to understand how the PTFE in TefGel is or isn't a serious issue, anyone here know more?  I did enough research to learn more about Perfluorinated Chemicals (PFCs) and PTFE is one of them.    These chemicals never break down and are increasing in prevalence in the world - essentially are an environmental disaster.  I care a lot about our oceans and want to do the right thing, but not always clear what that is.

 Tefgel in the ocean wouldn't even register. Shipping is a huge problem. Getting your toys shipped from the other side of the world is doing much more harm than the Tefgel. Infact using Tefgel so a foil lasts longer would be better environmentally than buying a new one more often.
Title: Re: Latest thinking on preventing corrosion
Post by: Badger on June 30, 2022, 04:32:14 PM
A blue Proxa brush also works well with Tef-Gel.
Title: Re: Latest thinking on preventing corrosion
Post by: surfcowboy on June 30, 2022, 08:02:14 PM
Tefgel isn't sticky like glue. It's just thick. As was said, tefgel and forget it.

For all of you starting out, this is one of those things that was a problem 2-3 years ago when foiling was starting. Everything is easier now.
Title: Re: Latest thinking on preventing corrosion
Post by: Dontsink on July 01, 2022, 01:39:25 AM
 Personally i would not worry at all about the amount of Tefgel you will use on your foil (milligrams) .
Title: Re: Latest thinking on preventing corrosion
Post by: Badger on July 01, 2022, 06:12:22 AM
Tefgel isn't sticky like glue. It's just thick. As was said, tefgel and forget it.

For all of you starting out, this is one of those things that was a problem 2-3 years ago when foiling was starting. Everything is easier now.


Agreed, not sticky like glue, more like very thick honey. If you get it on your hands, it gets on everything. I use the brush as much as possible trying not to get any on my fingers. Too sticky to use with gloves. Great stuff though.

Title: Re: Latest thinking on preventing corrosion
Post by: clay on July 04, 2022, 04:03:14 PM
Safe and effective?

So whats the safe ingestible dose of tefgel for marine life? Birds?  Kids?
Title: Re: Latest thinking on preventing corrosion
Post by: Badger on July 04, 2022, 04:35:45 PM
Safe and effective?

So whats the safe ingestible dose of tefgel for marine life? Birds?  Kids?


What's your alternative Clay?
Title: Re: Latest thinking on preventing corrosion
Post by: PonoBill on July 04, 2022, 11:07:36 PM
Global production of PTFE is about 500,000,000 pounds annually. If I'm going to focus on some things to protect the environment it won't be the two ounce jar of TefGel that contains a little less than one ounce of PTFE which I've owned for 10+ years and is still mostly full. The total amount that has actually escaped into the water after being spread on the threads of screws is a small fraction of the few grams that I've used. There are no alternatives that don't have an environmental impact, because everything does. Lanolin sounds harmless and natural except for the actual impact of raising 1.2 billion sheep in the world.
Title: Re: Latest thinking on preventing corrosion
Post by: clay on July 06, 2022, 10:17:52 AM
Safe and effective?

So whats the safe ingestible dose of tefgel for marine life? Birds?  Kids?


What's your alternative Clay?

I have been using this grease since April 2019:
https://www.green-oil.net/Ecogrease.html

Gone over a year without disassembling my foil, zero seizing.
Title: Re: Latest thinking on preventing corrosion
Post by: clay on July 06, 2022, 10:42:27 AM
I have zero control over the 499,999,999.9 pounds of PTFE each year.

I have 100% control over the 0.1 pounds that I am NOT using.
Title: Re: Latest thinking on preventing corrosion
Post by: Dontsink on July 06, 2022, 12:16:06 PM
We live in dark times.
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