Standup Zone Forum

Stand Up Paddle => SUP General => Topic started by: Big Fat Honu on April 18, 2022, 03:50:24 PM

Title: Help on picking next board for big guy SUP Surfing on mushy waves
Post by: Big Fat Honu on April 18, 2022, 03:50:24 PM
Hello -been surfing for 25+ years and SUP surfing for 14 years. SUP the majority of the time after an ACL replacement but still prone with the kids in the summer.

I'm 6'0 and 220 lbs with my 5/4 wetsuit on. Located in NW Washington.

This is how my surfing is broken down -

10% surfing on exposed coast beach break waves
20% surfing on Olympic Peninsula point break waves
70% surfing a gutless mushy novelty wind wave spot outside my back door :)

My local surf break is a novelty wave that breaks when we get strong winds - (I claim it's the northern most surf spot in the contiguous USA). I'm usually the only one out there but I'm spreading the word as it can be quite fun for those of us that live hours away from any real surf breaks.

The waves breaks only when it's windy so I'm often paddling in very rough conditions with 25-45 mph winds and the best waves you catch are the 2nd wave in the trough between two waves so having a board that is wide helps in the rough conditions and also with paddling to get into the waves as they are tough to catch. A shorter board helps as the steep small waves make it pearl a longer board.

Once you catch the waves you aren't doing much for turns and you're speeding along trying to connect sections for the longer ride - sometimes you can get 30-45 sec rides.

Here is a video with 12 different seasons of novelty waves to show what most of my riding is like -
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xH59tMlPWBU

My current board is a 9'8" x 33 x 4.7 168L Riviera El Tigre Wide and it's the golden key board so far for this spot. I've tried a Riviera Nugg 9'2", Riviera Ron House 9'3", (I knew a Riviera Rep) :) and some other various 10' boards and I found the shorter boards do better navigating the wave and for takeoffs on a steep small wind wave - however the Ron House was only 29" wide and wasn't very stable in the rough conditions and didn't have the paddle power compared to the El Tigre.

My El Tigre has some battle scars though so I'm shopping for my next board. I've narrowed it down to the following but wondering if anyone has any other suggestions and what you think of my choices. Durability is also important as the surf break is only about 2 ft deep at the end and it's all rocks with barnacles.

9'11 x 31" x 4.5" 151 $1100 Liters Paddle Surf Hawaii Ripper - https://www.paddlesurfhawaii.com/products/ripper-911-wood-veneer

This board is longer than I'd like, a little narrower than I'd want, and has less volume but the price is right and I think it probably paddles well enough to catch the mushy stuff.

9'3" x 33 x 4.7" 169L $1250 Hobie Corky Carroll C933 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6S80vegnvYY

I'm leaning towards this board as it seems very similar to the El Tigre but is a little shorter in length and I've seen video of Carroll making this thing turn on a dime and he's about my size (of course I'm no world champion lol). It looks like it would work really well to catch mushy little waves.

9'5" x 32" x 4 7/8" 160L $1995 Naish Mad Dox X32 https://www.naishsurfing.com/product/mad-dog-x32/

I like the look of this board and the dimensions - I think it would surf really well BUT it seems to have more rocker than the others so I'm worried it would not plane as well for catching little mushy waves even with the extra width. And it's $$$.

8'10" x 34 160L $1899 Quatro Glide Pro Carbon https://bigwinds.com/products/quatro-glide-pro-sup-surfing-board/

I rode one of these in Hawaii on small waves and it caught them pretty easily and turned really well but I'm worried it's a little egg shaped for my local spot and may not have the speed I need. It also felt a bit corky in Hawaii.

So that's my list so far - please let me know if you have any feedback after watching the video and seeing what 70% of my SUP surfing looks like and if you have any other board suggestions or if any of these boards look like the winner to you.

I recently rode a 9' x 34" x 4.25" Gerry Lopez Surf Music in Kauai and it surfed great but I was surprised that it seemed really slow paddling compared to my El Tigre and it lost the waves at the end pretty quickly compared to some of the other boards I've paddled (even more so than the 8'10 Quatro). So even when I think I've got it figured out by looking at dimensions it doesn't mean a board will ride or paddle the way you think it will. :)

Thank you so much!
Title: Re: Help on picking next board for big guy SUP Surfing on mushy waves
Post by: supmmmm on April 18, 2022, 04:00:14 PM
Have u tried Sunova? I have a Speeed and Acid models. Surf a novelty wave on a lake in less than ideal conditions as well.
Hope you find your new ride 🤙
Title: Re: Help on picking next board for big guy SUP Surfing on mushy waves
Post by: Big Fat Honu on April 18, 2022, 04:14:21 PM
Hmm those are both interesting choices - the speeed looks like it catches waves easier but I like the shape of the Acid. The 9'5" x 31" speed at 160L is interesting. Lots of volume for a 31" wide board. I'm guessing that nose is how they get to 160L at 31" wide.

Watching this video reminds me of the waves I get and the speeed might be pretty good for these waves.

https://youtu.be/12bZopizK6I

Title: Re: Help on picking next board for big guy SUP Surfing on mushy waves
Post by: supmmmm on April 18, 2022, 04:45:35 PM
Me on my Speeed at our novelty wave.
Title: Re: Help on picking next board for big guy SUP Surfing on mushy waves
Post by: Big Fat Honu on April 18, 2022, 05:05:02 PM
Nice! What size do you have and your weight?

There are a couple of dealers within driving distance of me here in WA - one up in Vancouver and one down in Oregon. No sales tax in OR :)

My only concern would be the nose shape but I'm guessing the rocker keeps it out of the water. Your stance there reminds me of where I have to stand on my board (as you saw in the video) to keep my speed up on the small waves and the rail engaged in the face.
Title: Re: Help on picking next board for big guy SUP Surfing on mushy waves
Post by: supmmmm on April 18, 2022, 05:18:20 PM
Thanks - that’s my 8’2” x 27” it’s just over 100 litres in volume. I weight around 167 lbs. A little less if I manage my junk food intake 😀
plenty of kick on that nose to keep it from burying in the mushy wave. Helps out at my wave as well to keep it out of the rocks which are just out of the bottom of the frame if I don’t manage to kick out in time.
Title: Re: Help on picking next board for big guy SUP Surfing on mushy waves
Post by: TallDude on April 18, 2022, 10:45:49 PM
It may sound like a broken record, but I've surfed just about all the boards you've listed. Once I surfed an L41 ST 8'8 x 32" 149l I've never wanted to surf any other board. 4 years now and it's never leaked or shown any signs of wear. Build is solid, but light. Kirk is the SUP master shaper. You can talk to him and he will build you the perfect board dimension wise.
It's a mini Simmons so it has a long board outline with a wider tail. It'll catch little mushers, all the way to OH and the speed is amazing. You have to get used to it. Boards with pulled in tails allow you to stick the tail to slow yourself down. These L41 ST's are more like skim boards. You jump on the tail and they take off!

http://www.l41surfcraft.com/models-sup

https://youtu.be/8RrZhUIhTFc

Title: Re: Help on picking next board for big guy SUP Surfing on mushy waves
Post by: surfinJ on April 18, 2022, 11:38:48 PM
Thanks for the vid. Even at funky and small, your own anykine pointbreak right out your back door is a dream.
And perfect for the kids as well. So cool.

I won’t add to the advice given here. Between that and your own research it seems you are well on the way. Good luck with the choice.
Title: Re: Help on picking next board for big guy SUP Surfing on mushy waves
Post by: Dusk Patrol on April 19, 2022, 12:14:45 AM
While you’re in the fun research mode… check out the Jimmy Lewis Super Frank.
Title: Re: Help on picking next board for big guy SUP Surfing on mushy waves
Post by: Dusk Patrol on April 19, 2022, 07:02:15 AM
TallDude - your Church video makes me want to live where you live …  8)
Title: Re: Help on picking next board for big guy SUP Surfing on mushy waves
Post by: Big Fat Honu on April 19, 2022, 08:41:15 AM
While you’re in the fun research mode… check out the Jimmy Lewis Super Frank.

I have looked at the Super Frank but I think its rocker is similar to the Riviera Nugg which didn't work as well on the small steep waves.
Title: Re: Help on picking next board for big guy SUP Surfing on mushy waves
Post by: Big Fat Honu on April 19, 2022, 08:48:49 AM
Thanks for the vid. Even at funky and small, your own anykine pointbreak right out your back door is a dream.
And perfect for the kids as well. So cool.

I won’t add to the advice given here. Between that and your own research it seems you are well on the way. Good luck with the choice.

Thanks man! It's definitely a novelty wave but I've had some really long rides and 99% of the time I get it all to myself. The nice thing with the wind waves is even when there are 3-4 people out there are continuous waves so never any worry about sharing.

I wish it was a wave that supported turns but most of the time if you turn you lose the wave pretty quickly. Just have to set it and go.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-F1sp25Gmrc
Title: Re: Help on picking next board for big guy SUP Surfing on mushy waves
Post by: Dusk Patrol on April 19, 2022, 12:04:00 PM

I can recommend Blue Planet’s Fun Stick.  And BP is really adept at shipping from Hawaii.  It looks to be out of stock at the moment, but it’s larger stablemate Turbo is in stock, and seems to be similar to your El Tigre.

https://www.standupzone.com/forum/index.php/topic,37484.msg431961.html#msg431961
Title: Re: Help on picking next board for big guy SUP Surfing on mushy waves
Post by: TallDude on April 19, 2022, 01:29:02 PM
TallDude - your Church video makes me want to live where you live …  8)
That was a pre-COVID video. Now days all the spots are so crowded even midweek, because so many people are "working" from home.  ::) ::)
Title: Re: Help on picking next board for big guy SUP Surfing on mushy waves
Post by: ospreysup on April 19, 2022, 05:16:32 PM
You have been given some great choices and can't go wrong with any of them. I have the L41 ST and it is as Talldude describes, an amazing board. I surf it 98% of the time. Best board I have owned. I used to have the Blue Planet Turbo another great board with great stability. I am 6'2 240 and on a windy, mushy day I always go with my Sunova Shroom. It is a dedicated mush board but I grab it whenever the winds are over 20 MPH. Not as fast as the ST and doesn't come close in performance to either board but the stepped rail is deeper in the water giving more stability and it has a really good glide paddling against the wind. The Blue Planet has the best glide of the bunch. The Shroom has excellent down-the-line speed and it turns great. It is limited in bigger or steeper waves. For comparison my ST is 8'10 x 160l, my Turbo was 9'10 x 160l and my Shroom is 8'11 160l. You could definitely go on the 8'7 Shroom. The Shroom is significantly the most stable of the three in high winds and built for mush. Super fun to surf too!
Title: Re: Help on picking next board for big guy SUP Surfing on mushy waves
Post by: PonoBill on April 19, 2022, 10:58:38 PM
I'd recommend some Foote boards for the kind of waves you're dealing with, but Bill doesn't seem to be shaping anymore. So plus one for the L41's, which make mushburgers and closeouts feel like quality surf. So fast down the line, they are almost like a foil. Whenever L41's come up I remember the first time I surfed mine at Rincon and was able to link from the Rivermouth to the cove. Impossible with any other board I've ever used and my modest talents.

SUPs are not very welcome at Rincon, and when I came in a huge surfer walked up to me and said "can I see the bottom of your board". Oh great, thinks I, here's where he tries to break one of my fins off. But he just stared at the board a moment and said "that's sick, I saw how fast you were."

I surfed mine a lot on the Oregon coast in the usual summer mess, and it was spectacular.

Mine was 8'8" X 32". Super stable, but I surfed it like Talldude does--feet planted, like a shortboard. I walk all over my 10'4" Foote, but for the L41 I only occasionally move my back foot to the rail to tighten up a turn, and that's super rare and generally unnecessary. All I needed to do is bend my back knee and it turns hard, you can see that in Talldudes video. Leaning back just a little bit hits the accelerator--very strange feeling. You can make closeouts that you wouldn't normally try for.

I pretty much exclusively foil now, but if I came back to SUP, the first step would be to order an L41.
Title: Re: Help on picking next board for big guy SUP Surfing on mushy waves
Post by: kwhilden on April 20, 2022, 08:48:10 AM
What you need is a board with hard edges nose-to-tail, which generate a lot more speed in mushy flat waves. 

I get my custom SUPs from Ry Harris in Los Angeles, and I helped him design this board. Using the George Greenough "edge board" concept. 
https://www.ryharrisshapes.com/collections/pro-models/products/the-edge-sup (https://www.ryharrisshapes.com/collections/pro-models/products/the-edge-sup)

It's uncanny how well this design works when done properly. There's a lot less drag from water wrapping around a round rail. Yet you still have all the edge control of a round rail.

Ry can make it any shape or dims you want, and his quality is excellent.  Zero waste factory too.  Made in the USA.

A variation on this coming is the upcoming Infinity Wide Speed.  If you can get one...   

A custom board is $1800.  But a custom is 100% worth the extra spend if you're trying to optimize your board for conditions, your body size and ability. I'm a big guy too and stock board sizes always introduce compromise to what my actual needs are.   
Title: Re: Help on picking next board for big guy SUP Surfing on mushy waves
Post by: Bean on April 20, 2022, 11:26:35 AM
Yes, George Greenough "edge board" and Bob Simmons "Simmons shape" influence really make the most out of mushy waves.  It's worth giving up a little maneuverability for speed.  I actually like the loose/skatey feel of my Mini-Simmons.

Check out the new Infinity Wide Speed, probably checks most of your boxes.
Title: Re: Help on picking next board for big guy SUP Surfing on mushy waves
Post by: Big Fat Honu on April 22, 2022, 11:06:25 AM
Thank you everyone!

After doing some studying on the suggestions I've narrowed it down to the Sunova Speeed or one of the the LT41s. Going to reach out and see what the timelines look like.

I like that both those styles offer strong stability even at narrower widths and that both are meant to plane easily and provide maximum of speed down the line. They also both look like they turn easily and even if I go big like a 9'5" to get extra float I doubt I'd have much trouble carving hard with my 220lbs weight on the back :)

Now the tough part will be if they tell me it's 6 months to get one. I guess my backup plan for summer is that hobie but after seeing these other boards I'm really interested in them.
Title: Re: Help on picking next board for big guy SUP Surfing on mushy waves
Post by: supmmmm on April 22, 2022, 11:33:22 AM
Hey - not sure if this is still avail - wrong coast but could be an option for you 🤙
https://www.standupzone.com/forum/index.php/topic,37815.0.html
Title: Re: Help on picking next board for big guy SUP Surfing on mushy waves
Post by: Big Fat Honu on April 22, 2022, 08:32:02 PM
Hey - not sure if this is still avail - wrong coast but could be an option for you 🤙
https://www.standupzone.com/forum/index.php/topic,37815.0.html

Awesome, thank you! I sent him a message. No shops on west coast have much for Speeed inventory so it would be a long wait. Also emailed about the L41 so interested to hear their timeline. If I can get that used one and get it shipped safely out here that would be awesome.
Title: Re: Help on picking next board for big guy SUP Surfing on mushy waves
Post by: Big Fat Honu on April 23, 2022, 07:35:06 AM
Just heard back from surfcraft and turnaround time is 8 weeks which is great. Sounds like the L41 ST is quite the board.
Title: Re: Help on picking next board for big guy SUP Surfing on mushy waves
Post by: PonoBill on April 23, 2022, 10:46:46 AM
If you do get the L41 I recommend Futures Controller fins. I tried a lot of fins with mine and always came back to Controllers, which Kirk recommended for the board. They feel a tiny bit less skatey than typical dolphin quads, but they made even my weak wiggle-waggle turns feel powerful and committed. I'd swear they're faster too, but that's probably just in my head, and L41's have all the speed you need with even the worst set of fins I tried.
Title: Re: Help on picking next board for big guy SUP Surfing on mushy waves
Post by: sflinux on May 02, 2022, 09:44:18 PM
"My current board is a 9'8" x 33 x 4.7 168L Riviera El Tigre Wide and it's the golden key board so far for this spot."
Being that your current board is 9'8" x 33", I would think that you would be happy with a 8'8" x 33" L41 (155L-165L).  In my opinion, L41s have the paddle power of a board that is 1' longer.  I would encourage you to go wide, for stability.  My L41s go from 28.5"-30.5", with guild factors of 1.2-1.4 and I only use them when conditions are glassy.  I prefer other boards when the conditions get choppy.  Your conditions sound extreme.  I've danced with less than ideal conditions, and my experience mirrors yours.  You feel the chop, you feel the current, you feel the wind.  Width is your friend.  Shorter is better than longer.  I have been trying to go shorter.  For these conditions, I have been using a guild factor of ~ 1.5.  I started off with the 9'4" x 33" Blue Planet Fun Stick.  Then moved to the 8'10" x 32" Starboard Wide Point.  Later got a Starboard Hypernut 8'6" x 31.5" and was blown away with the stability, best of the bunch.  Currently I am on the 8'9" x 31" Jimmy Lewis Wide Point (with keel fins), which is less stable (narrowest of the bunch) and has a pulled in nose.  Both the Hypernut and JL Wide Point feel to be in the same class as L41, but the L41 is hands down the fastest of the bunch.  Agree with PonoBill, Controllers all the way for L41s.
No experience with Sunova, SUPtheCreek is a great resource.  If it was me, I would lean more towards the width of the Shroom over the Speeed for your conditions.
Title: Re: Help on picking next board for big guy SUP Surfing on mushy waves
Post by: Big Fat Honu on May 06, 2022, 08:27:17 AM
Pulled the trigger on a L41 ST after talking with Kirk.

Decided to go with the 8'10" just to maximize paddle power and volume as I'm not getting any younger or smaller. Even so the 8'10" should feel like a good step down from the 9'8".

Thank you everyone for the feedback and advice. Now we play the waiting game :)
Title: Re: Help on picking next board for big guy SUP Surfing on mushy waves
Post by: TallDude on May 06, 2022, 07:36:07 PM
Perfect 8)
You are going to learn to love that board. I'll wait with you ;)
Title: Re: Help on picking next board for big guy SUP Surfing on mushy waves
Post by: PonoBill on May 09, 2022, 06:55:25 AM
Cool, save yourself some time and effort and get whatever fins Kirk recommends. I tried a lot of fins with my L41 looking for a little more bite. Any fins that tracked better slowed the board drastically and didn't really make turning better, just locked down the tail. A little skidding is fine when you have so much speed at hand. It is a big step down in length, and getting used to the small sweet spot takes some time. Just persist and in short order, it will feel easier than a board you have to shuffle around on to turn.
Title: Re: Help on picking next board for big guy SUP Surfing on mushy waves
Post by: Billekrub on June 13, 2022, 11:50:26 AM
PonoBill,

Re:  "Leaning back just a little bit hits the accelerator--very strange feeling. You can make closeouts that you wouldn't normally try for."

Can you explain a bit more what is happening?  Weighting the back foot a bit more while going straight down the line?
Title: Re: Help on picking next board for big guy SUP Surfing on mushy waves
Post by: sflinux on June 13, 2022, 08:25:01 PM
The fins that came with my L41s were Controller Quads.  I tried others but those are the best for quads.  Keel fins are fun if you want to try twin fins: i.e. Rasta.
Quote
Re:  "Leaning back just a little bit hits the accelerator--very strange feeling. You can make closeouts that you wouldn't normally try for."
Can you explain a bit more what is happening?  Weighting the back foot a bit more while going straight down the line?
Clayton Nienaber explained how when you put a surfboard on rail, it accelerates because there is less surface area in the water.  Riding a surfboard flat is like riding a hydrofoil without being on foil, then when you put the board on rail, is like a hydrofoil lifting the board out of the water and now with less drag, the board accelerates.  L41s are not as fast as hydrofoils but they are the closest a SUP can get.
With a wide tail board, the tail doesn't bury like a pintail.  So when you push on it, it pushes back.  I think TallDude said that a ST has the feel of a skimboard, shooting you forward.
Some boards ride better off the tail and the ST is one of those boards.
Title: Re: Help on picking next board for big guy SUP Surfing on mushy waves
Post by: PonoBill on June 14, 2022, 09:11:10 PM
PonoBill,

Re:  "Leaning back just a little bit hits the accelerator--very strange feeling. You can make closeouts that you wouldn't normally try for."

Can you explain a bit more what is happening?  Weighting the back foot a bit more while going straight down the line?

Honestly, I have no idea why that works on the L41s, it certainly doesn't on any other board I've been on. I have actually had the board shoot out from under me by just leaning back a little bit. You get used to it quickly and brace to make it work, but it's not intuitive. It's like going faster in a car by hitting the brakes,  and it fucks you up for other boards for a while. Imagine leaning back on a regular surfboard and expecting it to accelerate like mad. Most of the stuff that works wonderfully, like turning by skidding the tail, doesn't work at all with other boards.

The best "explainer" for L41s is Talldude. I've watched him surf his, and he gets everything out of it. I think he's married to his.  Watching a guy who is at least a foot taller than everyone else on a mini-sims that looks like a toy skimboard under him accelerate in a wave like he's got a motor is really startling and impressive.
Title: Re: Help on picking next board for big guy SUP Surfing on mushy waves
Post by: sflinux on June 20, 2022, 05:14:30 PM
PonoBill,

Re:  "Leaning back just a little bit hits the accelerator--very strange feeling. You can make closeouts that you wouldn't normally try for."

Can you explain a bit more what is happening?  Weighting the back foot a bit more while going straight down the line?
It may have something to do with Clayton Nienaber's explanation of an oreo biscuit:
https://www.facebook.com/ombesurf/videos/surf-coaching-oreo-biscuit-technique/366836787784722/ (https://www.facebook.com/ombesurf/videos/surf-coaching-oreo-biscuit-technique/366836787784722/)
When you press down on the tail, and the board pushes up on the tail, the only direction momentum of the board can go is forward.
SimplePortal 2.3.7 © 2008-2022, SimplePortal