Standup Zone Forum
The Foil Zone => Wingsurfing, Windfoiling, Wingfoiling, Wing SUP => Topic started by: Solent Foiler on April 03, 2022, 12:52:25 PM
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I considered starting a new thread for each new one, but let's see if one thread is sufficient for the time being.
There are three new wings that have caught my eye that have just been launched:
Takuma RS - have put deposit for pre orders on the 5.1, 4.3 and 3.5 with nothing but the brochure and my gut to guide me. The shop I'm buying through as said they're pre-ordering out fast which either means that supply is limited or interest high or both. Whatever, at least it's not just me who's taking a punt on these. I hope they perform as well as they look on paper, and would appreciate a review or two before I have to complete the payment to put my mind at ease!
Nova V2 - couple of reviews have landed in the last few days with general feedback being handles are great, flags very well (despite being heavy on the scales), decent power and nicely balanced. Interesting to me as they are very different to the V1 so a clear shift in thought, so a step up in performance you'd hope. Superficially look similar outline to my current Slicks which begs the obvious comparison if anyone has ridden both.
Airush Nitro - premium pricing due to Hookipa fabric. Again, very little out there in terms of reviews so interesting to hear how it stacks against the Aluula wings... The Nitro info quotes 'proven Ultra PE load frame' which I assume are the radial canopy seams you can see (which I think are in Hookipa too), which is a development I've been hoping for to improve canopy longevity / reduces bagging out. I'm going with the cheaper monofilm option of the RS for the moment.
Does anyone have first hand experience on these and could share? What do people think? Anything else that looks good that hasn't been discussed in depth yet...
Hoping to get the RS's in May so will share my thoughts when I can.
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Interesting that most brands are heading in the fixed handle direction. It is definitely superior for control of roll and makes tacks etc so much easier as your not looking for the handles on your back hand.
I’m on slicks, after struggling with tacks awhile ago I had a slick demo, instant success, almost cheating. I’ve belted the board with the boom a few times and I wonder how the boards will handle the hard corners of the handles during a stink bug.
I saw a pick of a Slingshot boomed wing, so maybe the Slick won’t be the only boomed option now the Echo is gone.
Weight versus longevity is always an issue, I’m on the side of paying for standard cloth but replacing the wings more often. After my foil has gone through canopies on a few occasions wings are a more disposable item than kites.
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I had my first session on the 2022 Duotone unit. The handles are really great, and the wing goes upwind like crazy. Coming from the Slick the unit handles are a good compromise, though some of my boom habits don't transfer. Namely grabbing right in between the handles.
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I've heard that some brands will be branching out and offering different wings for free-ride, riding surf and racing -- reminds me of windsurfing and how specialization eventually hurt sales and resulted in the general public losing interest -- it was huge in the early 1980's and now it's a rarity where I am.
Anyway, I suspect we'll see some really fast development, especially with new fabric for the wings, which means they'll get more and more expensive especially the wings developed for racing.
I'm very interested in the Takuma RS -- the handles look interesting but I'm not sure about the long battens along the the bottom of the "L" part of the strut -- how do you pack them up? The new North looks good but then the weight may be an issue. What if Duotone introduces a "new" Slick with new materials and a new super light boom? Things are changing so fast that you may put in an order today and tomorrow wish you had waited a couple of weeks. If you already have wings that work well for you then waiting for things to sort themselves out could be the way to go. It's not as much fun but it is prudent. One of the things I've discovered in life is that "new and improved" is not always better -- sometimes it's a step sideways or even an expensive step backwards.
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What if Duotone introduces a "new" Slick with new materials and a new super light boom?
I hear this exact wing is coming soon from Duotone...
To the broader point, I have everything from Aluula wings, to direct to consumer non-branded wings. The premium stuff is better, but I'm not convinced that its worth the price - particularly when it only lasts a season and a half. I think a Takoon quiver is 95% as good as anything out there right now (95% because its less durable and "premium", but probably rides 99% as good as anything) and feels like the right move in a market that is evolving so quickly.
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An Aluula Slick is a great option, with the boom spreading the load on the strut it should avoid the damage I saw on a OR wing. The guy pumped it like crazy, going out in very light winds and the Aluula started to fail around the handle connection area, luckily replaced under warranty.
Might have to save some pennies for when they are released.
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Just heard from a buddy that the Cabrinha Mantis V2's are pretty nice. He's calling them game changers. I loved the V1.
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It took longer than it should have, but it sure looks like boom/handles are the future.
All these brands have booms or prototypes of booms.
Gaastra,
GoFoil
Takuma
Slingshot
Duotone
BRM
Dakine
Cabrinha
Epic
North
Ocean Rodeo
Hot Sails Maui
Vayu
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Just my observation but a couple of the V3's of 2 top brands have been a huge disappointment. I bought and sold 1 quickly and a sponsored rider friend of mine told me how the V3 of another brand in his words is "crap" and the V2 is far better. I would always recommend testing as just "cos it's new" doesn't mean it's better. I'm not going to name brands as that's not my point. I think the jump from 1st version to 2nd version was a bigger leap than the latest. I also think brands have realised the demographic and subsequent spending power of the majority of wingers and are producing what boils down to "go faster stripes"..and charging ridiculous money.
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I LOVE my Cabrinha Mantis 2001 model...such a great handle system . My wing foiling has improved the moment I used these..such a solid feel and easy to find without looking. Lightweight and easy to pack for travel. I am sure the V2 is even better, but I saved a couple hundred$ buying last year’s model.
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As an ex windsurfer, I'm very interested in the boom-style handle. Seems like the Duotone Slick is still the best example of that.
Does anyone have an opinion on the Slick compares to the newer boom style wings?
Since I'm just getting into this sport... I'm looking at the Slick. I also have a connection to Starboard, and generally like their brand, so I'm looking at the Freewing Air V2.
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As a windsurfer, I own the original Duotone and loved the boom, however felt it was heavy and not good for travel, and when I was first learning, the boom gave my board a couple of dings on crashes. I knew I wanted some form of boom, and the mini booms on Cabrinha were perfect for me and felt close to a full boom. I see a lot of people using and loving the Duotone Slick which has the full boom. Either way, I think you will find the feeling familiar coming from windsurfing.
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I had my first session on the 2022 Duotone unit. The handles are really great, and the wing goes upwind like crazy. Coming from the Slick the unit handles are a good compromise, though some of my boom habits don't transfer. Namely grabbing right in between the handles.
I, too, just had my first session on the Duotone Unit v2 (4m) and the handles are fantastic. I had gotten used to my F-one Strike CWC 6m handles but the rigid ones on the Unit are great.
The inflation system leaves something to be desired when compare to the Strike. For example, the neoprene cover over the valve on the Strike is really good for keeping blowing sand out of the valve. You'd think every wing (my old Wasp had this) would have this type of protection.
Upwind performance is excellent given the wing shape and extremely rigid canopy.
Not a fan of the windows as they force me to move the wing into position to see through them when it is just easier to lift the wing up. That being said, I don't ride where there are many other people. Once I get the steps down in terms of deflating and putting the wing away, perhaps I won't mind the windows so much.
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First review of the Nitro that I've seen. Short and shame about the sound quality but don't think there's anything too surprising mentioned. It's light, stiff and drifts well. Reading between the lines might be a handful overpowered so maybe you need to alter pressure according to conditions? Would like to hear more!
https://www.instagram.com/tv/CcPwI0hIPee/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=
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Dwight forgot one of the newer boomed wings (looks interesting):
https://ca.video.search.yahoo.com/yhs/search?fr=yhs-sz-001&ei=UTF-8&hsimp=yhs-001&hspart=sz¶m1=17478¶m2=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¶m3=13&p=eveight+wfs+wing+foiling&type=type7095192-sv7-dGFnUTEyMzI3OTMtbWFwcw-f3e0f26ec3c0b09c89e756a608b9c474#id=4&vid=78f9322aa8224005a75608aeaab1cec0&action=view
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Dwight forgot one of the newer boomed wings (looks interesting)...
Good catch, although technically not a 'new' wing with boom handles. The Eleveight V1 had them too...
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First review of the Nitro that I've seen. Short and shame about the sound quality but don't think there's anything too surprising mentioned. It's light, stiff and drifts well. Reading between the lines might be a handful overpowered so maybe you need to alter pressure according to conditions? Would like to hear more!
https://www.instagram.com/tv/CcPwI0hIPee/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=
Canopy looks baggy to me.
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Here's a video with some long sections of a foiler using what looks like a Takuma Wing/RS prototype (those handles I think are unique to the RS):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lClxT__GAAw
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Here's a video with some long sections of a foiler using what looks like a Takuma Wing/RS prototype (those handles I think are unique to the RS):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lClxT__GAAw
Pretty sure thats a BRM W2.
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Here's a video with some long sections of a foiler using what looks like a Takuma Wing/RS prototype (those handles I think are unique to the RS):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lClxT__GAAw
Pretty sure thats a BRM W2.
Definitely a BRM. The RS has X-Ply panels on the trailing edge of the canopy.
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Some shorts of the RS:
https://youtu.be/jbPCyKRSVNM (https://youtu.be/jbPCyKRSVNM)
https://youtu.be/d1r5hpLr2bg (https://youtu.be/d1r5hpLr2bg)
https://youtu.be/QmJdavNaRek (https://youtu.be/QmJdavNaRek)
https://youtu.be/SLz7RcEhUeA (https://youtu.be/SLz7RcEhUeA)
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Here's the Takuma RS in action at Real Water Sports (he's using it while testing the new Naish foils -- it will be interesting to hear his review of this wind wing (note the batten along the lower edge of the front strut) -- this wing sure looks nice):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2mkYOQreBM
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More on the Nitro. Not exactly overflowing with praise, but no significant criticisms either...
https://youtu.be/n8BjjhVIpOs
https://youtu.be/lK3VuBvBhYY
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I used my new Naish MK4 WingSurfer wing today..
Very different.. bigger tubes.. stiffer.. much more power.. and I love the new handles.
https://vimeo.com/705660037
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I used my new Naish MK4 WingSurfer wing today..
Very different.. bigger tubes.. stiffer.. much more power.. and I love the new handles.
https://vimeo.com/705660037
Looks good DJ. I like the new colors.
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And more on the Nitro with a comparison to the DLab unit.
https://youtu.be/eS1apzSlPEM
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I have just ordered another pair of Takoons,1000 eur total.
Good ole Dacron and Ripstop,soft handles,no window.
After reading/watching every review i could find on Aluula,Hookipa,Xply,RS and whatnot i still think the price is too high for the improvements they give.
I was convinced they would be total gamechangers, IMHO they are not there yet.
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I have just ordered another pair of Takoons,1000 eur total.
Good ole Dacron and Ripstop,soft handles,no window.
After reading/watching every review i could find on Aluula,Hookipa,Xply,RS and whatnot i still think the price is too high for the improvements they give.
I was convinced they would be total gamechangers, IMHO they are not there yet.
Ive got Takoon and OR Aluula. The OR is a sick wing and without a doubt, it is better than the Takoon. But the Takoon is also a great wing and particularly in smaller sizes, the difference in performance between them is pretty small. Cost benefit is totally personal, but I agree that the price difference probably isn't justified for most people. Its nice not to be precious about gear and for the cost of the Takoon, I don't really need to worry about inevitably beating it up. You can also buy an extra size given the price difference to most dacron wings (multiple sizes given the difference to an Aluula wing). I am lucky to have the resources to buy nice stuff, but if I were to build another quiver, I would seriously consider Takoon v2 for 3,4,5m (something lighter for a 7m).
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The new KT wings are an amazing V1 effort. It's clear they've looked at many of the previous wings on the market and have added many of the desirable attributes such as low end power, stiff frame, drift stability, light weight and good handle interface. The handles are simple and light weight but it may be cool to to see Cabrinha style rigid/soft handles in the future for these wings. Like an Armstrong, I think you can size down a half size as they are pretty grunty. Even the 3m has pretty amazing low end. High end is surprisingly good too. Windsurfers familiar with the Goya brand of sails are used to a high end/premium/refined product from Jason Diffin. It'll be interesting to see where his KT wing development goes!
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First proper review of the RS, compared to the new Unit.
Even more excited to get my RSs now. Sounds like they will suit me very well...
https://youtu.be/9DOJX6FIeQQ (https://youtu.be/9DOJX6FIeQQ)
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Review of the KT. Like that long front strut handle in a similar way I like the RS front handle in having another option for flagging the wing out.
https://youtu.be/AGXbDZugO5M (https://youtu.be/AGXbDZugO5M)
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Here's a nice overview of some of the new wings on the market (solid vs. soft handles):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQhkM98WMJ4
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In this video the wing appears to be a full boom Gaastra "Poison" wing -- probably a prototype. It will be interesting to see if we ever see a production one.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tSRlFs5ZctU
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Takuma RS Wing in action:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-v1FC2ijvA
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My RSs have been delayed, along with the whole European shipment apparently. An issue with the bladders that needed sorting. Current ETA is end of the month but I'm not getting my hopes up!
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In the meantime, Gong have released their 2023 wings which look pretty good to me (all lighter, better etc etc) with the Neutra reminding me of the F1 wings. Still 5 models, but a more thoughtful range of sizes, within each model.
What really caught my eye was their new wing tip batten system, which they're calling the LDS (Low Drag System). The batten takes some wing tip load so the inflatable wing tip can be much thinner, meaning less drag.
They claim a world first, but that wing tip batten idea looks familiar! (Hint - check out the Takuma RS)
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There's a new Slick SLS -- new materials, full carbon boom and shaped more like the new Units. Supposedly it will be released in the next couple of weeks. The Slick will still be available. The SLS will be more expensive but maybe you can buy it without the boom (buy one with a boom and the others without as you can with the current Slick).
When it comes to new wings it's the fast and furious!
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I saw the new Slick at BigWinds yesterday. Looks slick. But having just purchased a 4.5 D-Lab my wallet is feeling a bit empty.
I like the D-Lab a lot, though it's taking some time to get used to. The front hand pull seems to be a thing with newer wings. I bought a Reedin X thingy, and the front-hand pull was so extreme that I gave up on it. the D-Lab isn't that unbalanced, but it's taken some fiddling to get comfortable. I moved my harness lines forward so one end is on the fake mid boom I added and the other end is on the middle of the front handle.
I've also shifted my grip forward, both hands near the front of their respective handle. I also dropped the inflation to 7 pounds when the wind is strong enough. the little bit of taco bend (it isn't much) loosens the canopy enough to shift the center of effort a bit back. I expect as this wing ages the canopy will bag a little and get more comfortable.
Power is excellent, it pulls more like a 5+. The weight is amazing, and the wing jibes on autopilot. I've been just doing my thing jibing the foil, switching my feet, and letting the wing take care of itself. As I complete the jibe the wing goes overhead to pretty much the perfect position. Swap hands and yer done. It also downwings very nicely, there hasn't been enough swell to flag it in the low position, but the weight makes it comfortable to luff it high, let it swing so it's going tail first overhead, and generally single-hand it, reaching up to grab the middle bar and tug on it when I need a little power. I tried that with my 7M F-1 CWC and the strut hit the water, followed closely by me.
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The front hand pull seems to be a thing with newer wings.
With the smaller D/labs, the draft moves “forward” in a gust. I only went for one D/lab, the 6.5m, so never felt this.
My thoughts were the Dacron version is so freaking good, I’ll just replace mine when the canopy bags eventually, rather than make the big spend on all D/labs. I won’t have to take the huge $$$ hit replacing D/labs, when the canopy bags.
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I’ve had a few sessions on the d lab 6, more on the normal ones. I also came from the x wings, but I feel like the handles are perfectly balanced unlike the x wings. I also feel like the range on my one dlab seems insane, and had me thinking about a 4.5/6 dlab quiver of two, if I could sell my SWX quiver maybe I would!
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There's a new Slick SLS -- new materials, full carbon boom and shaped more like the new Units. Supposedly it will be released in the next couple of weeks. The Slick will still be available. The SLS will be more expensive but maybe you can buy it without the boom (buy one with a boom and the others without as you can with the current Slick).
When it comes to new wings it's the fast and furious!
I have two days on the Slick SLS 4.0. My daily driver is 3.5 D/LAB (with also a 4.5 Unit v2 for lighter days)
First day on the SLS 4.0 was light wind where there were some larger wings out there in the 6m range and other wingers on 4m. Yesterday which was day 2, most wingers were on ~3m
The feel and range on the SLS 4.0 is great... flies similarly to the Unit v2. Speed and upwind are also great.... logged 10 second 23.5knots
Feels super light, and there is literally nothing I do not love about this wing. So far flags as well as my D/LAB
The new window configuration is also great, I feel I can see a lot more.
One improvement on the Unit v2, the SLS wingtip drag is almost imperceptible... it's like you hear it but don't feel it in your hands. I ride with the wingtip really low to the water, so this is one of the things that really surprised me... I've never ridden a wing does this.
I have some stock now if anybody in the USA is looking for some.
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Little animation on the Gong Low Drag System (wing tip batten allowing smaller diameter wing tips). Interesting theory with some potential in my view. No idea on the significance or real world benefits.
https://youtu.be/GUfHezEcUdw (https://youtu.be/GUfHezEcUdw)
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Here's a good look at the Slick SLS (supposedly available in early July although some shops have them now):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sumxLc-MBCs
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Nice comparison of the SLS to the original Slick:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RnHvunSwBWg
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Nice comparison between the SLS and new Unit:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8gQ1Paid7pw
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xyQg7WV4vRE
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After years of resisting getting a wing with a boom I decided I needed to try one, so I went out and bought a new 5.0 SLS. One session so far, and the advantages and ease of use are real. Upwind ability, low end power, one hand riding, and ease and control during transitions was amazing. Was nailing my best tacks ever. However, after twenty minutes I grabbed the boom coming out of a fast tack and ended up with the boom in my hands and the wing flying around at the end of the leash, completely separated from wing. Fortunately, I was near shore, paddled in, and it looked like the Velcro was undone and nothing was broken. I’m often winging in cold water with a strong seaward tidal current and always try to have a self rescue plan. This was a problem I had not considered when I decided to try a boom. I quit using the Armstrong mini boom long ago because of Velcro failure. I think I attached the boom correctly and hope it stays on my next sessions. So it seems the advantages of the boom are impressive but the (not insurmountable) problem of how to best attach the boom to the strut could use some more thought. Meanwhile, I guess I’ll check the connection often, baby not manhandle that boom, and keep it out of the waves and sketchy launches
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You can absolutely manhandle duotone boom wings. Mine are bent from handling so hard.
Contact the mfgr.
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Myself and a mate have last years Slicks, although the manufacturer says one boom fits all sizes we have both found that information incorrect. He had a boom pop off, on a 4 mtr due to being too short. We now have custom carbon booms for each size, the 4 mtr is the longest, even longer than the 5.5 mtr.
Make sure when you inflate, both the front and rear ends of the boom are snug in their respective caps, we found the 4 mtr had a 3cm gap at the end which allowed the boom to pull out. No problem with a slightly longer boom.
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that's the worst part about the slick - the boom coming out that rear end because its not as long as it should be. I solved that by drilling a tiny hole through the end cap and putting a piece of line through it to tie it in place. Doesn't take much to keep it in place
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Myself and a mate have last years Slicks, although the manufacturer says one boom fits all sizes we have both found that information incorrect. He had a boom pop off, on a 4 mtr due to being too short. We now have custom carbon booms for each size, the 4 mtr is the longest, even longer than the 5.5 mtr.
Make sure when you inflate, both the front and rear ends of the boom are snug in their respective caps, we found the 4 mtr had a 3cm gap at the end which allowed the boom to pull out. No problem with a slightly longer boom.
agree that there was something weird going on with the original 4.0. Seems like the rear boom retainer pocket was several cm too far back. If you pumped up the wings without the mini boom inserted and then laid the mini boom on top, the pocket ends would line up well with the ends of the mini boom on most sizes. On the 4.0 it was off.
As with all Slicks and Slick SLS, it is important to check that the mini boom ends are fully seated halfway through inflation, and then finish pumping and recheck. I did not have any problems with my mini boom coming out on my 4.0, but I have heard of it happening to a couple people.
If this were to happen to you on the water, one way to reinsert and get back to land is to push the tail end in first and bypass the webbing end stop piece, so you can insert the boom past its intended position. This can give you some wiggle room to insert the front end into the pocket and get back to shore. Probably easier said than done.
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Update on my new SLS 5.0 boom issue. Second session- boom felt solid, no signs of it coming out of strut. Customer support rep very helpful with rigging tips- think I might not have paid attention when I attached boom first time out.
Have gone from making 20% of my tacks to 90% in two sessions on this wing, a big deal for me making time upwind = ^^ fun.
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I've heard a lot of brands are coming out with new materials this fall. That said, I think brands struggle to move on from bad shapes in the past and rehash them, based on parking lot talk. (i.e. having a baggy canopy and a shape that doesn't like to go upwind, but putting an aluula leading edge on it isn't going to improve things much).
Things I'm looking for in a new wing coming from D-Labs for racing/free-riding:
Low-dihedral
Low-stretch canopy material (not dacron)
Non-stretching LE material and shape (not dacron/ or 10+psi dacron)
Tight canopy (required for getting on foil in the lower half of the wind range of any wing)
Non-stalling at closely sheeted angles
Rigid handles
If anyone has ridden a wing like this let me know! I know there are prototypes out there.
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I love the rigid handles of my duotone unit. It flys great and goes upwind quite well. But damn it if it doesn't flip over every single time its in the water. Super super annoying. I feel like something about the leading edge shape combined with exactly where the leash attachment point is placed is unstable. At this point, I'm looking for Duotone to figure out making a wing stable in the water and it'll be the complete package.
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I've heard a lot of brands are coming out with new materials this fall. That said, I think brands struggle to move on from bad shapes in the past and rehash them, based on parking lot talk. (i.e. having a baggy canopy and a shape that doesn't like to go upwind, but putting an aluula leading edge on it isn't going to improve things much).
Things I'm looking for in a new wing coming from D-Labs for racing/free-riding:
Low-dihedral
Low-stretch canopy material (not dacron)
Non-stretching LE material and shape (not dacron/ or 10+psi dacron)
Tight canopy (required for getting on foil in the lower half of the wind range of any wing)
Non-stalling at closely sheeted angles
Rigid handles
If anyone has ridden a wing like this let me know! I know there are prototypes out there.
Good points. I'll add bladder-less to the top of the list.
Not so sure why folks are raving about the Unit in general and the D/Lab specifically.
Tried both in various sizes, bought the 4m D/Lab and barely used it (hit me if you want one like new cheaper)
My Ocean Rodeo 4m running circles around this wing in almost every way that matters to me.
I really don't feel I need rigid handles for sizes 5 and down, 6 and up for sure but would choose the new
F-one Strike V2 handles on the smaller wings every time. Could even use those on the Ocean Rodeo.
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I still LOVE my Cabrinha Mantis and can't hardly think of anything I would change on it..maybe an additional dump valve, but that's a minor detail. The handles while plenty rigid for added control are very comfortable in hand and not hard plastic. The Mantis wing is very light and plenty powerful and well constructed. I chose the model with windows, but you get without which result in less weight.
If you want the control of a rigid handle without a full boom, give the Mantis a try...
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I love the rigid handles of my duotone unit. It flys great and goes upwind quite well. But damn it if it doesn't flip over every single time its in the water. Super super annoying. I feel like something about the leading edge shape combined with exactly where the leash attachment point is placed is unstable. At this point, I'm looking for Duotone to figure out making a wing stable in the water and it'll be the complete package.
It's called the Duotone flip! Been an issue on many of their wings.
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I've heard a lot of brands are coming out with new materials this fall. That said, I think brands struggle to move on from bad shapes in the past and rehash them, based on parking lot talk. (i.e. having a baggy canopy and a shape that doesn't like to go upwind, but putting an aluula leading edge on it isn't going to improve things much).
Things I'm looking for in a new wing coming from D-Labs for racing/free-riding:
Low-dihedral
Low-stretch canopy material (not dacron)
Non-stretching LE material and shape (not dacron/ or 10+psi dacron)
Tight canopy (required for getting on foil in the lower half of the wind range of any wing)
Non-stalling at closely sheeted angles
Rigid handles
If anyone has ridden a wing like this let me know! I know there are prototypes out there.
Good points. I'll add bladder-less to the top o
Not so sure why folks are raving about the Unit in general and the D/Lab specifically.
Tried both in various sizes, bought the 4m D/Lab and barely used it (hit me if you want one like new cheaper)
My Ocean Rodeo 4m running circles around this wing in almost every way that matters to me.
I really don't feel I need rigid handles for sizes 5 and down, 6 and up for sure but would choose the new
F-one Strike V2 handles on the smaller wings every time. Could even use those on the Ocean Rodeo.
Wild stuff. I heard the exact opposite by at least three people who have tried both including some folks who had a quiver of OR and ditched it for units and rag on the OR stuff and the cabrinha wings.
It’s wild because there is an answer of which wing is better (not just these two) for going upwind, powered riding, pumping etc. Unfortunately all the nice reviews are done by shops who stock all the equipment they review. Even if they reviewed a gen1 unit and a dlab 2022 they would say “In conclusion, they’re both nice wings…”. Haha
Not being sponsored I’m happy to s***t on a bad wing, but I have only ever had duotones (echo / slick /unit dlab) and the wings I’ve shaken in the parking lot all seem like garbage bags, but I’ve never actually had a chance to use them (Brm, ozone, north, armie, etc.)
I just know certain protoypes are more powerful for the size than my dlabs and don’t have the stalling issue that I have. Based on other people better than me racing them and trying them all. But you can’t buy a prototype so I’m hoping some of these come out soon and to hear peoples feedback.
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I never seen an OR in the flesh but tried the Dlab and Unit.
Compared to a lot of other wings they feel very direct and close to nervous. That feel got extragated by the stiff handles. I guess some like it and some (like me) don,t.
Personally I was big fan of the Smik V2 wings; light, comfortable well balanced and as quickly going as the Dlabs. That was till I tried the Mantis V2. With windows its imo too heavy but without its a very wel build and still light wing. 2.7kg for an 6m with leash is pretty okay imo and it has the best handling in the waves of all the wings I tried so far.
It has stiff handles, but because of how they designed them, they have some flex and that ads comfort. I prefer that comfortable slightly more flexy handle over the very stiff ones. In the surf the biggest difference with most wings is that it has an wide but very stiff front handle.
When flagged you need to twist your wrist to compensate on the floppy handles, with this stiff one you have way more control.
It isn't a game changer, but is something that I would love to see on more wings. I have no affiliations with Cabrinha, but liked it soo much that I ordered a 4+5 as well while my Smiks are still in very good condition. It really feels like a next gen wing.
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I just know certain protoypes are more powerful for the size than my dlabs and don’t have the stalling issue that I have. Based on other people better than me racing them and trying them all. But you can’t buy a prototype so I’m hoping some of these come out soon and to hear peoples feedback.
I’ve ridden several prototypes with Ken. Ones coming next season, and one just beginning long term durability testing, so probably a very long way out. I know I’m in the right camp, and I’m not leaving. Duotone forever. The hack brands will get left in the dust eventually.
FYI, Ken is now focused solely on wing design. Kite design is moving to Sky Solbach. They are really getting serious on winging.
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I ride KT wings but have had the opportunity to try a pretty wide selection of brands with various handles and materials including Aluula. I really like the Slicks despite the added weight of the boom. Units are very nice too. Duotone strikes me as having some of the most refined-looking wings on the market. Interesting thing is that going back to back with a current Aluula wing with all of the bells and whistles and then to my KT which looks quite minimalist in comparison, it's not like I'm disappointed in the performance of the KT. It's quite impressive the performance you can squeeze out of the KT and it's only a V1! Price for performance is pretty insane too. The long front handle on the KT makes tacking even in strong wind a snap as you can slide ride up behind the leading edge and shove it through the eye of the wind effortlessly. The KT just chills and hovers flagged out while you wave ride and the frame has good pumping/low end stiffness (something critical to me). All of this despite using Aluula or Hookipa, and keeping the price reasonable. Easy to fly one handed too as they nailed the balance of the centre handle. While I like seeing the exotic materials pushing the design envelope, it's also cool to see what designers can do with standard materials while keeping costs in line and performance as high as possible.
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I ride KT wings but have had the opportunity to try a pretty wide selection of brands with various handles and materials including Aluula...
That's a great post, and a good reminder that design as well as materials make the wing. I admit I've been frothing over the new exotic materials over the last 12 months or so, and my new wings do have some novel material choices (when they eventually arrive!!!), but when I was deciding what I wanted next, longevity of performance was close to the top of list so that went into the mix. Having the best performing wing is great, but not so much if that performance only last 3 months before becoming average...
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I just know certain protoypes are more powerful for the size than my dlabs and don’t have the stalling issue that I have. Based on other people better than me racing them and trying them all. But you can’t buy a prototype so I’m hoping some of these come out soon and to hear peoples feedback.
I’ve ridden several prototypes with Ken. Ones coming next season, and one just beginning long term durability testing, so probably a very long way out. I know I’m in the right camp, and I’m not leaving. Duotone forever. The hack brands will get left in the dust eventually.
FYI, Ken is now focused solely on wing design. Kite design is moving to Sky Solbach. They are really getting serious on winging.
Could you please tell him to fix the leading edge handle?? I just got a 4.5m unit. Really like the wing, but omg that leading edge handle is complete garbage. It's like nobody actually rode any waves while testing. I guess if you're just going straight on a wave it's ok, but if you're turning and trying to move the wing around while riding waves the handle doesn't help one bit, just twists and turns with no response from the wing. The strut handles are so good, it completely blows my mind that they would put such a shitty handle on the leading edge. It's basically just a piece of loose webbing, almost like it was a complete after-thought.
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Could you please tell him to fix the leading edge handle?? I just got a 4.5m unit. Really like the wing, but omg that leading edge handle is complete garbage. It's like nobody actually rode any waves while testing. I guess if you're just going straight on a wave it's ok, but if you're turning and trying to move the wing around while riding waves the handle doesn't help one bit, just twists and turns with no response from the wing. The strut handles are so good, it completely blows my mind that they would put such a shitty handle on the leading edge. It's basically just a piece of loose webbing, almost like it was a complete after-thought.
I also suggested the same. It’s nice and stiff for next year.
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I ride KT wings but have had the opportunity to try a pretty wide selection of brands with various handles and materials including Aluula...
That's a great post, and a good reminder that design as well as materials make the wing. I admit I've been frothing over the new exotic materials over the last 12 months or so, and my new wings do have some novel material choices (when they eventually arrive!!!), but when I was deciding what I wanted next, longevity of performance was close to the top of list so that went into the mix. Having the best performing wing is great, but not so much if that performance only last 3 months before becoming average...
I'm on the Allula Glides. My 5m i have 64 sessions on and running. The yellow UV covering is just starting to peal in isolated, high friction areas. I've been assured the Allula itself is the transparent material below that. The wing itself is at least 80-90% as stiff as it was off the hop. That says a lot-i am absolutely merciless on my gear.
I fabricated a handle and boom to go with it (we are all waiting to the Carbon handles) which changes these wings to something quite remarkable. Interestingly enough, if you can, compare the F1 Strikes to the OR Glides. Might make a guy chuckle.
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I just know certain protoypes are more powerful for the size than my dlabs and don’t have the stalling issue that I have. Based on other people better than me racing them and trying them all. But you can’t buy a prototype so I’m hoping some of these come out soon and to hear peoples feedback.
I’ve ridden several prototypes with Ken. Ones coming next season, and one just beginning long term durability testing, so probably a very long way out. I know I’m in the right camp, and I’m not leaving. Duotone forever. The hack brands will get left in the dust eventually.
FYI, Ken is now focused solely on wing design. Kite design is moving to Sky Solbach. They are really getting serious on winging.
Could you please tell him to fix the leading edge handle?? I just got a 4.5m unit. Really like the wing, but omg that leading edge handle is complete garbage. It's like nobody actually rode any waves while testing. I guess if you're just going straight on a wave it's ok, but if you're turning and trying to move the wing around while riding waves the handle doesn't help one bit, just twists and turns with no response from the wing. The strut handles are so good, it completely blows my mind that they would put such a shitty handle on the leading edge. It's basically just a piece of loose webbing, almost like it was a complete after-thought.
Yup. I like the wing, hate that handle. It's the worst leading edge handle I've ever used, I'm not sure what's wrong with it. Most front handles are fairly wimpy. My Duotone wings flip over if I grab the front handle. WTF??
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I have finally got hold of my Takuma RSs and first impressions are good in nearly every aspect. I don't have too much experience on other wings so the comparison is going to be against my old Slicks (so I'm not going over the top with superlatives. If I say 'good', I mean it puts a smile on my face!) The other caveat is that I've just started running the Axis CS Advance fuse, which I've not fully dialled in yet, so working on two new things at once...
Initial power is good, although not super grunty, and pumping feels much stiffer and direct (so better than the Slick all round here). In flight, the outstanding feature is the draft stability - it just doesn't move which means that it just keeps pulling. The Slick was a bit unstable, so the power was always wondering around meaning you didn't get this continued drive forward. I always felt I was trimming the wing to keep the max power on. With the RS, especially with a harness, you hook in and hold on, as you get pulled faster and faster - pretty exciting ride! Very windsurf like...
Upwind is good, although I think I'm losing a bit with the adv fuse, but without going head to head it's very difficult to say as conditions play such a big role. Downwind the RS is well behaved, way better than the Slick at staying put, and flies well, but you feel the weight a bit (on the 5.1) like the Slick if you want to move it around a lot, but not in an annoying way to me. I think this is from the inherent profile stability it has but also the outright weight (not measured the head to head weight). The leading edge handle is nice and also big, so knuckles are well away from the leading edge although there is neoprene protection too.
The front strut handle is good, and its shape means it's a shorter reach under the wing to grab compared to the Slick when getting started. The handle is also nice to hold onto going downwind and swapping between that and the leading edge handle is really quick and easy. I'm usually holding the front strut handle right at the back when riding powered so not benefitting from the projection windward the deeper shape offers.
I'm missing not having a full length boom after having one for so long and have grabbed air enough times to buy a section of carbon tube to fill the gap. This will also allow me to optimise the position of my harness lines too.
I think the RS rotates and handles better than the Slick in transitions too although tacks have been less consistent. I think the adv fuse is playing a part here too and just need to get a feel for it. Jumping is also better, with more stiffness giving more loft and a more hang time. This is going to be a better freestyle wing for me too I suspect, once I sort out not having a boom.
The wings shipped with the wingtip battens installed, so they can stay in forever as far as I'm concerned. What little feedback I've seen was a bit critical of the bag - I thought it was reasonable (better than the Slick bags!), if a tiny bit snug to get the first section of wing all the way in (it's sausage shaped which gets a bit narrower towards the end.
For my local conditions, having a wing that is exciting upwind but also good down wind, with the promise of extended performance life with the X ply trailing edge is great. I'm not blessed with waves so will inevitably be on flattish water / wind chop most of the time so for me, the RS blend of performance is going to suit me really well... I'm excited to pump it up again! Wind gods may have other ideas though...
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I ride KT wings but have had the opportunity to try a pretty wide selection of brands with various handles and materials including Aluula...
That's a great post, and a good reminder that design as well as materials make the wing. I admit I've been frothing over the new exotic materials over the last 12 months or so, and my new wings do have some novel material choices (when they eventually arrive!!!), but when I was deciding what I wanted next, longevity of performance was close to the top of list so that went into the mix. Having the best performing wing is great, but not so much if that performance only last 3 months before becoming average...
I'm on the Allula Glides. My 5m i have 64 sessions on and running. The yellow UV covering is just starting to peal in isolated, high friction areas. I've been assured the Allula itself is the transparent material below that. The wing itself is at least 80-90% as stiff as it was off the hop. That says a lot-i am absolutely merciless on my gear.
I fabricated a handle and boom to go with it (we are all waiting to the Carbon handles) which changes these wings to something quite remarkable. Interestingly enough, if you can, compare the F1 Strikes to the OR Glides. Might make a guy chuckle.
I am genuinely pleased to hear that about the good longevity. I decided not to go for Aluula this time after seeing the RSs, but perhaps after!
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The yellow UV covering is just starting to peal in isolated, high friction areas. I've been assured the Allula itself is the transparent material below that.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52307475695_ede488f134_z.jpg)
OR replaced this one. A local riders. I’m still a bit sketched out by Aluula. I think other fabrics are going to win out eventually.
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The yellow UV covering is just starting to peal in isolated, high friction areas. I've been assured the Allula itself is the transparent material below that.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52307475695_ede488f134_z.jpg)
OR replaced this one. A local riders. I’m still a bit sketched out by Aluula. I think other fabrics are going to win out eventually.
WOW. I've never seem that. You were a real proponent of those wings-certainly isn't the case now. Did they take care of you without any pushback? It seems like you have some kind of beef with Allula and OR.
I wonder if it was an early release or batch issue. Hasn't happened here, and there are a lot of people around here, in Squamish and Nitinat lake that use Allula.
The price of inivation? I wonder what's next from Allula, (not OR). Im pretty sure they havent stood still since they came out with it.
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It was my friends Aluula, not mine. They replaced it.
I lost interest in Aluula long before this happened, simply because canopies reach end of life in 6 months at my use rate. When the industry solves that issue, I’ll reconsider.
I still have one Aluula wing myself.
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I haven’t seen anything like that either. Wonder if it has to do with heat? Having experience with aluula I can’t really see abrasion doing that.
Im dying to know what’s coming from OR in 2023. Im close to pulling the trigger on some carbon handles but I want to make sure im going to be on OR wings next year before I make that purchase.
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Review of the RS, in French but subtitles work ok.
Similar findings to what I said above, but with more detail, so although a positive review, he doesn't really make any comparisons to other wings on the market, which is a bit of a shame. He says it sacrifices some top end performance for some comfort, which works well for me in my gusty local spot. I'd use the word predictable rather than comfortable, but it's his review!
https://youtu.be/7_tE8JWvjHo (https://youtu.be/7_tE8JWvjHo)
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Apparently for 2023 most wing manufactures will be offering wings with booms and hard handles. Some, like Slingshot, supposedly will be offering all three options -- boom, hard handles and soft handles. If true, then there's something for everyone.
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Ensis has some new wings for 2023. A full boomed wing and a "race" wing with solid handles and canopy material that looks something like X-ply (I'm not sure what it is).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r4UwhE0JzWA
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Here's the Javelin:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZ_QPQzdzQM
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Picked up a 5.5m Takoon V2 while up at the AWSI this year, and love it so much, that I've since bought a 4m and a 7m (to replace my F-One CWC 7m...that I loved, just like the Takoon that much more).
Apparently I'm not the only one loving them...
https://youtu.be/DPUNTJGLvK4
https://youtu.be/1Ge9SxXQHQo?t=344
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Picked up a 5.5m Takoon V2 while up at the AWSI this year, and love it so much, that I've since bought a 4m and a 7m (to replace my F-One CWC 7m...that I loved, just like the Takoon that much more).
Apparently I'm not the only one loving them...
Are Takoon wings available in the US? I'm not seeing any for sale online.
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Picked up a 5.5m Takoon V2 while up at the AWSI this year, and love it so much, that I've since bought a 4m and a 7m (to replace my F-One CWC 7m...that I loved, just like the Takoon that much more).
Apparently I'm not the only one loving them...
Are Takoon wings available in the US? I'm not seeing any for sale online.
Yes, and no. They have the same direct to consumer business model as Gong eliminating the middleman, but unlike Gong they do have a US distribution center.
So no retailers in the US, but you can order them directly from their website, and depending on your location, it's a couple days delivery (you don't have to wait for your gear sitting for however long in US Customs like Gong stuff)...it took two days from order to my door in CA.
(https://i.imgur.com/2IGbLnc.jpg?1)
Several friends hopped in on my last order also, and are really happy with their new wings as well. ;D
Most ordered the 7m for the light winds we have in SoCal most of the time, and 3 of us were out yesterday flying in 7-8 mph winds, with 9-10 mph gusts - with bigger foil wings (I was on the Axis 1060/425P), and had a blast!!
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I have a Takoon v2 as well. Its a very good wing for the money. Its not the best wing I have tried, and it doesn't have a very premium feel, but the things that matter are well designed (good handles, good canopy tension, luffs stable, very grunty for the size) and it cost about half what a premium wing costs. I use them to fill sizes that I don't use often and I buy more premium wings for my 1 or 2 most used sizes. I bet resale is not very good though. Windance has a few sizes used at the moment.
If cost were a priority I would have no qualms with a quiver of these. Performance would be 95% as good as anything else out there.
I bought mine from the EU distributor and had it shipped to the US (US distribution is very new for them). I also have a board travel bag from them that has served my purposes well.
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Here is the Takoon USA website. https://us.takoon.com/
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9eQFSDqkhcY
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Now we're into the 2023 wings and things keep evolving. More booms, rigid handles, different canopy materials and no doubt more expense:
https://ensis.surf/product/score-limited-edition/
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I'm going to have to find out more about an outrageously good-looking wing I saw at Ka'a last week. The frame was less than half the diameter of typical wings but was still quite rigid. The canopy was tight and the material felt ridiculously thin and light. In the gusty wind, the wing held its shape beautifully, with a smooth, controlled curve I've never seen on any current wing. I probably could have tried it--some other folks did and raved about it--but I hate to try other people's stuff, especially prototypes. I'm just too hard on equipment in every way. I'd feel like shit if I stuck a stabilizer through it.
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Here's NP's entry into the fray -- nice Takuma RS like padded handles (longer handles for the larger sizes) and lots of draft in the wing:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZEV8hnqRE8
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Anybody have a look /try of Kaupers boomed 5mt I 6mt wing called Tyron?
https://en.kauper-xt.com/tyron-wing
I really love my glide 6mt all the way up to 20 knots.. But im not sure how much Longer the aluula material is going to hold up.. The yellow is flaking off a over the place and no idea how that "de lamination" will effect the longevity... So I'm just beginning to look at light-ish options for my big wing before it becomes an "emergency" purchase! Jeje..
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Alula is a sandwich of two layers of some kind of resin over woven aramid thread, basically threads of spectra. I'd expect the structure to hold up even with the outer layer flaked off. But you can tell us how that goes. My Dlab seems fine for now but it hasn't seen much use.
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Anybody have a look /try of Kaupers boomed 5mt I 6mt wing called Tyron?
https://en.kauper-xt.com/tyron-wing
I really love my glide 6mt all the way up to 20 knots.. But im not sure how much Longer the aluula material is going to hold up.. The yellow is flaking off a over the place and no idea how that "de lamination" will effect the longevity... So I'm just beginning to look at light-ish options for my big wing before it becomes an "emergency" purchase! Jeje..
Such a nice design. The handles just look right. The boom option, the weight has a lot of my boxes checked. I'd really wanted to order one. The sad thing it that they don't ship the USA or Canada. :(