Standup Zone Forum

The Foil Zone => Foil SUP => Topic started by: MikeLima on January 24, 2022, 09:22:04 AM

Title: Best paddle for foil sup
Post by: MikeLima on January 24, 2022, 09:22:04 AM
So I have decided that I must have left my paddle behind the last time I went out. It was a carbon adjustable paddle with a smaller blade that I got before I was into foiling. I've heard it said that bigger blades are the thing, how big and how long should my next one be? I'm 5'11"/170lbs.
Title: Re: Best paddle for foil sup
Post by: PonoBill on January 24, 2022, 09:58:34 AM
It depends more on your technique when you're going for a wave than anything else. If you paddle a foil as sloppily as most folks do then go big. If you're actually setting your blade then stay with what you're used to. I have a decent stroke when I'm paying attention to it but when I go for a wave it blows up.
Title: Re: Best paddle for foil sup
Post by: MikeLima on January 24, 2022, 11:57:37 AM
That sounds like sound advice. It didn't seem broken......
Title: Re: Best paddle for foil sup
Post by: NZfoiler on January 30, 2022, 04:11:34 PM
Ive got a starboard Lima which I really like. had a adjustable carbon Riviera that felt like a broom stick before so I guess anything is better.
The only thing about blade size imho is that you want your stroke timing to match you pump timing when paddling into a wave. Maybe most can make them match but I had to sand down my blade size down 3 times before I got it to where they felt natually in time. Took alot of material out. When I got it right it felt way better!
I personally think faster short strokes gives me more board speed into the wave. I know when I get it right I get in much easier.
Be interesting to hear others paddle technique into waves, its not often discussed.
Title: Re: Best paddle for foil sup
Post by: Hwy1north on February 15, 2022, 12:47:39 PM
I'm loving the KeNalu Mana 82 with x-tuff shaft.  A bit of diy to set it up, but worth every penny.  I'm 190lbs and wouldn't want any bigger...
Title: Re: Best paddle for foil sup
Post by: APPST_Paddle on February 19, 2022, 02:49:30 AM
Yeah, I'm 6', 175 lbs and I've had Kialoa, Kenalu, and Hippostick in various sizes. I landed on the Werner Rip Stick 79 with smaller shaft cut to my height (72"). I found that a smaller blade along with a smaller shaft is both easier on my shoulders and allows for a quicker cadence.

I wouldn't go with a larger blade again.
Title: Re: Best paddle for foil sup
Post by: jondrums on April 24, 2022, 01:27:48 PM
I hear the popular kids are using the "Quickblade Ono Ava 105 SUP Foil" these days

Supposedly it has a bit more angle to the blade which helps keep power a little deeper into the stroke.  Its also quite large.

I'm not sure I want to go back to such a big paddle head, but I may switch to Quickblade.  Does anyone know the difference between the V-drive and the UV series?
Title: Re: Best paddle for foil sup
Post by: PonoBill on April 24, 2022, 02:03:03 PM
I'm loving the KeNalu Mana 82 with x-tuff shaft.  A bit of diy to set it up, but worth every penny.  I'm 190lbs and wouldn't want any bigger...

That's my favorite blade. If I set the catch it's as big as I need, if I don't, then the Mana 95 works better. My stroke goes to shit as soon as I stop concentrating on it. On race boards, I'm faster with the 82 for sprints and faster with the 95 for distance. You'd think I would have the discipline to use the 82 for both since I know what the problem is, but no.
Title: Re: Best paddle for foil sup
Post by: pafoil on April 24, 2022, 02:34:11 PM
I hear the popular kids are using the "Quickblade Ono Ava 105 SUP Foil" these days

Supposedly it has a bit more angle to the blade which helps keep power a little deeper into the stroke.  Its also quite large.

I'm not sure I want to go back to such a big paddle head, but I may switch to Quickblade.  Does anyone know the difference between the V-drive and the UV series?

I had the V-drive 101 and UV88, the catch in the 101 is much better. The UV88 for sup foil, felt like not having a blade after using the v-drive 101.  The 101 has 10º and the Ono ova 15º blade.
I would  order a big ono ova if they had a better shaft and/or warranty policy.
I ordered a V-drive 101, took 3 month to arrive and it was broken in half in 1 month trying flat starts. The answer, no warranty.

I would not recommend to spend much money in a big paddle until you master the technique, actual SUP paddles are not ready for the increased initial resistance of sup foil. I may be wrong, but this was my 3rd broken shaft in a year.



Title: Re: Best paddle for foil sup
Post by: soepkip on April 25, 2022, 10:49:57 PM
I hear the popular kids are using the "Quickblade Ono Ava 105 SUP Foil" these days
Supposedly it has a bit more angle to the blade which helps keep power a little deeper into the stroke.  Its also quite large.
I had the V-drive 101 and UV88, the catch in the 101 is much better. The UV88 for sup foil, felt like not having a blade after using the v-drive 101.  The 101 has 10º and the Ono ova 15º blade.
I would  order a big ono ova if they had a better shaft and/or warranty policy.
I ordered a V-drive 101, took 3 month to arrive and it was broken in half in 1 month trying flat starts. The answer, no warranty.
I would not recommend to spend much money in a big paddle until you master the technique, actual SUP paddles are not ready for the increased initial resistance of sup foil. I may be wrong, but this was my 3rd broken shaft in a year.
I broke a few big bladed paddles years ago and switched to a smaller blade.
Now I am trying to get up on the foil on flat water and very small not braking waves and I was thinking of getting a QB Ono Ova.
But I don't feel like breaking a paddle esp without warranty.
How much do you weigh Pafoil? And can you just replace the shaft of a QB paddle? QB doesn't have a stronger shaft as an option?
Title: Re: Best paddle for foil sup
Post by: PonoBill on April 26, 2022, 11:31:34 AM
I think most people break paddles foiling by hitting the front wing. The effect is so sudden that it doesn't feel like the shaft hit the foil. It's more accurate to say the wing hits the paddle. The paddle blade will NOT move forwards away from the wing, it's a huge resistance with incompressible water backing it up and the force applied by the leading edge on a tiny area would be thousands of pounds per square inch. A karate blow.

One of the ways I planned to take over the paddle market was to take advantage of a huge warranty advantage. Ke Nalu paddles are modular and the blade is the most expensive part by far. Blades are rarely broken, it's usually shafts, but in every case, we would only replace one component, and by keeping the shafts simple, consistent in sizing across all levels from beginner to elite, but high quality they were painless to warranty for long periods. There's a lot more to that evil plan, but the upshot is that current paddle manufacturers still don't have a way to respond to that advantage. They lose a substantial amount of money on every warranty claim they accept. I viewed warranty as a valuable marketing expense.

Unfortunately I came to the realization that running a business is a pain in the ass no matter if it's something you like or not. So I sold my interest to Lane and bailed.
Title: Re: Best paddle for foil sup
Post by: pafoil on April 26, 2022, 02:09:54 PM
I hear the popular kids are using the "Quickblade Ono Ava 105 SUP Foil" these days
Supposedly it has a bit more angle to the blade which helps keep power a little deeper into the stroke.  Its also quite large.
I had the V-drive 101 and UV88, the catch in the 101 is much better. The UV88 for sup foil, felt like not having a blade after using the v-drive 101.  The 101 has 10º and the Ono ova 15º blade.
I would  order a big ono ova if they had a better shaft and/or warranty policy.
I ordered a V-drive 101, took 3 month to arrive and it was broken in half in 1 month trying flat starts. The answer, no warranty.
I would not recommend to spend much money in a big paddle until you master the technique, actual SUP paddles are not ready for the increased initial resistance of sup foil. I may be wrong, but this was my 3rd broken shaft in a year.
I broke a few big bladed paddles years ago and switched to a smaller blade.
Now I am trying to get up on the foil on flat water and very small not braking waves and I was thinking of getting a QB Ono Ova.
But I don't feel like breaking a paddle esp without warranty.
How much do you weigh Pafoil? And can you just replace the shaft of a QB paddle? QB doesn't have a stronger shaft as an option?


Hi I'm like 180 pounds. In their defense; I would say that I have a very poor paddling technique, and tend to use my biceps too much. There is a lot of initial resistance in the board foil combo, so if you go to hard seems to be the perfect combination.
 Now I'm back in extensible shafts, they seem to be more resistant.
Title: Re: Best paddle for foil sup
Post by: jondrums on April 26, 2022, 03:30:20 PM
I've broken several of both paddle shafts and paddle heads.  Thank you KeNalu for the warranty!!!!

Generally, the paddle head breaks when the foil hits it at speed (from paddle pumping).
Generally, the paddle shaft breaks during a hard paddle pull, and it breaks near my lower hand grip. 

After I went from a 105sqin paddle head to a 92sqin paddle head, I only broke one shaft during a hard pull but not near my lower hand.  In that case, I strongly suspect it was weakened at some point by getting mixed up with the board in whitewash.

I'm super dismayed that KeNalu is having supply chain issues and not looking forward to breaking quickblade paddles, which I know will happen.
Title: Re: Best paddle for foil sup
Post by: Dusk Patrol on April 26, 2022, 07:48:04 PM
Werner has a whitewater SUP paddle, at about 100" sq inches, very durable with a one year warranty.  I recall its strength came from being largely glass, but it might be worth it in stress reduction alone. 
Title: Re: Best paddle for foil sup
Post by: Beasho on April 27, 2022, 10:29:11 AM
I am back to using the KeNalu Molokai - 105 Sq Inches.

I started with the Molokai - AKA huge SUP paddle 10+ years ago.  The thinking was go big and muscle yourself into the wave with 2 quick strokes.

Then I went smaller and smaller and loved my 93 Mana. 

But its back to the beginning.  With SUP foil you need to get furiously up to speed, but only to ~ 8 mph then you start flying.  (Where on big wave SUP I would often get up >> 15 mph and miss waves).  Given the latest FOILING trends mentioned above I have reverted back to the big Molokai.  It was noticeably heavier but has improved my wave catch ability.  I am working on getting into BIG waves much earlier and have been having good success.  Caught a couple near the bowl at Mavericks last week.  Next project is to get a Barracuda type board working. 

Something 7' 6" BUT maybe 24" or 26" wide vs. 20"
Title: Re: Best paddle for foil sup
Post by: jondrums on April 27, 2022, 03:54:47 PM
I still have a Molokai blade and you've convinced me to glue that back in and give it another shot for foiling.
Title: Re: Best paddle for foil sup
Post by: soepkip on April 28, 2022, 02:09:21 AM
I still have a Molokai blade and you've convinced me to glue that back in and give it another shot for foiling.
I broke 2 Molokai blades years ago, on the connection with the shaft that was before foiling.
Kenalu was great with warranty. I have a mana 90 now but I still have a Molokai blade and another shaft so I will give it a try....

Title: Re: Best paddle for foil sup
Post by: jondrums on April 28, 2022, 10:53:44 AM
RIP my elbow and shoulder, but here goes.  Will report back here after my next session.  I'm pretty certain I will miss the amazing feel of the Mana - I recall the feel of the Molokai being quite "barbaric" in comparison.  I felt like I was stepping up to a much more refined design.  Can I wish/beg/dream for a 100sqin Mana?
Title: Re: Best paddle for foil sup
Post by: Beasho on April 29, 2022, 04:16:44 AM
I was worried about the shoulders but then took the “Haley” approach which is a slow and steady paddle to the lineup.  No need to rush.

Then when you need to takeoff paddle like a crazy mo-fo
Title: Re: Best paddle for foil sup
Post by: Beasho on May 24, 2022, 04:02:38 PM
I was worried about the shoulders but then took the “Haley” approach which is a slow and steady paddle to the lineup.  No need to rush.

Then when you need to takeoff paddle like a crazy mo-fo

System's Update:  Shoulders DID start to hurt after 1 1/2 months.

I have switched back to a smaller paddle.  I would like to think I could super-hero through the mechanics but NO.  Too many furious takeoff attempts wear on the muscles and it was starting to negatively effect my winging as well. 
Title: Re: Best paddle for foil sup
Post by: SUS4Life on May 24, 2022, 10:36:45 PM
Which shaft are you using? I used to have shoulder problem too but since switching the Xtuf shaft from a full carbon(Werner) shaft, my shoulder issue when away in a few weeks. 
Title: Re: Best paddle for foil sup
Post by: headmount on May 28, 2022, 11:00:00 PM
I've been switching between my old 95 KeNalu and a Quickblade Ono Ava 105 i got about two months ago.  The 105 is a beast and I've been very careful not to go crazy with it until I get my shoulders up to par.  I can go crazy with the 95 as it seems like a salad fork in comparison.  Also doing lots of shoulder work with dumbbells.  Everything I do now is like climbing Everest, so I'm careful.  Finally learning how to be that way at 71.
Title: Re: Best paddle for foil sup
Post by: PonoBill on May 29, 2022, 08:26:41 AM
I'm spending a silly amount of time recommissioning my electric three-wheel recumbent. My knee doc and PT says pedal something but don't fall. And don't overdo it on hills. Back to the unloader brace. Keeping up our bodies to do the shit we love to do is not an option. The only other option is quit and get on the bus. Not happening.
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