Standup Zone Forum
The Foil Zone => Wingsurfing, Windfoiling, Wingfoiling, Wing SUP => Topic started by: daswusup on December 10, 2021, 04:55:46 PM
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There's not a good enough reason not to be.....
Then we can stop bitching about handles. They only matter when you unhook.
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Whew, I have roughly a year to slack off.
Thanks for the tip.
-red
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Not going to happen! The joy of winging is the simplicity. I don't want more gear to complicate things. Also I havre arms and hands and can hold an inflated wing. ;D
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I can easily wing for 2 hours with out a harness and not come in tired, why would I need a harness?
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Nobody NEEDS a harness, but for going upwind, especially overpowered, they're great. You can hold a closer reach, and save your energy for downwinding and bump riding.
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I can easily wing for 2 hours with out a harness and not come in tired, why would I need a harness?
Your arms are spilling power constantly. You arms are rubber bands that GIVE constantly.
A harness is locked and loaded to the maximum full time. Adding more power on every reach. Your legs control power, locked and loaded.
Guess what harness users do when over powered? yeah, we ride without using one because your arms are rubber bands spilling power.
Locked and loaded, my WAG is 15-20% more power than using arms.
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Define “worth their salt”
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Define “worth their salt”
I will swap out "worth their salt" with "3rd year winger".
Now I see a lot of 3rd year wingers AKA early adopters in harnesses. For me, the harness lets me focus on getting way upwind fast and easy so I can flag out and just foil all the way back. The first year or two, most are busy sorting the gear and figuring out gybes/tacks, staying upwind. It's probably a lot to do with where I ride and what I am into trying. I am foiling on inland lakes mostly. I also spent much of the year jumping as often as I could and this is considerably more tiring on arms than just cruising around. And then enter the art999. This foil is a super commuter. It has opened up riding to places easily that once seemed far away. Being harnessed for the commute is super nice. It won't be for everyone but I think most will land there eventually.
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OK, I can agree with that. I started winging in January and have been experimenting with harness set ups. I might use one only 10% of a session but it is nice to rest the arms a little and get better upwind angles. A simple waist belt harness is not overly complicated and I can see no downside to having the option to clip in. Better to be able to have a 3 or 4 hour session than be cooked in 2 hours.
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Ok I get it if your planning lomng distance stuff, resting the arms on long upswing legs is a bonus. But for bump riding, yes you can be fully powered getting back upwind for the next bump, but why not just use a smaller wing. Smaller wings have less drag and are more efficient plus are lighter for the downwind run. And once on the bump you don't need the power of the larger wing, eg +3mtr.
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As a windsurfer for 25 years , I have used and depended on a harness, but so far I don’t feel I need one when foiling. I installed the lines on my F-One Swing and the lines were a nuisance, hitting me in the face when pumping the wing, and a couple times they got in the way of my jibes. I used the lines a couple times just to see how it felt, and it was easy to use, but for me at least they get in the way more than I would use them. Wing foiled today 20 mph 2 hrs no harness, no problem...
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Is it worth their salt or old as salt?
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I like the boom. but... I don't plan to wing anymore by 2023 so you're right. I'll be back in my kite harness by then! ;D
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Personally I went down that route a year a half ago, it useful if you want to go overpowered. But I'm not doing it anymore.
But new HA foil and more efficient wings are removing the need of a harness for me.
My session are always 2 hours maximum and y don't do long trips.
Perhaps if new wings are designed to allow massive overpower riding I will go back to a harness. Only if jumping is my goal.
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I went from the NSI minimalist to a full on kite harness with a metal hook. I’m not looking back. It’s awesome!!
Anyone interested in a slightly used NSI minimalist harness?
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using the Ride Engine Vinaka Wingsurf harness and love it. Started in May.
Yes, you can ride without it but this one doesn't bother me and I have my board leash on the waist anyway.
I get even longer sessions that way.
The hook can be put to the side if I don't want to use it for a while (but realistically I only move it now if I want to swim with the board)
As for harness lines - my bigger wings all have the bungee type so they don't annoy me when pumping...
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First of all, floppy harness lines suck. If you quit using a harness because they were smacking your face and getting in the way then the fix is easy--windsurfing lines, specifically Duotone lines with adjusters on both ends. I have them more or less permanently in place on my fake boom, but I've used them in the connectors F-one provides. They work fine.
I was out this morning early (8:30), in the harbor because you don't have to wait until 10 (Maui rules) on my 6M because it was a bit light. About 9 it started getting strong, so hooking in for each run up to the mouth to play in the waves was a pleasure, and I was much faster than most of the folks around me, even though I was on an 1150/380. By 11:00 it was getting frisky, so I came in and changed to a 5m and swapped the 1150 for the 999. Hooked in gave a silly fast ride and I could hold a super tight reach. I winged until 12:30, and quit because I was getting a stitch in my side, but was otherwise not tired at all. I was probably hooked in and resting half the time.
One of the key advantages I see to harnessed riding is how you can tune the wing. I don't sheet in to get more power with a harness, I raise the tail of the wing a fraction. That moves the wing closer to the board, like closing the gap on a windsurfer. I suppose that's possible using arms, but I never do. It feels clumsy and awkward, whereas in a harness it feels natural and easy.
Drinking a bottle of water cleared up the stitch, so I went by Ka'a to take a look. the wind looked fine but the surface was chopped up and I didn't see much in the way of surfable swell, so I bailed. If it had been a little more inviting I would have gone out for at least another few passes.
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I made a simple harness line that doesn't hit me in the face. I took an old kite leash that has the shock cord over some bungee. I just attached pigtails to each end and larks head it onto leash attachment points on wing. When its not in use, it stays right up next to the strut due to the bungee keeping it short. When I hook into it, it expands to my proper length. Here is a pic of the early version which had a caribiner(sp?) on one end. The V2 is much cleaner. I just have one which I switch to whatever wing I need. Takes 20 seconds to switch. 20 minutes to build. You only have to hit yourself in the teeth once to know that all the harness line offerings available are garbage(F-One). In fact, I stopped using my harness for a while until I came up with this rig. The floppy harness lines have hand entrapment written all over them. Reminds me of all the joys of kiting.
I also wanted to mention how much fun it is to ride hooked in, with one hand free. Especially toeside. This opens up my body to get in a much more natural surf stance.
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I did the floppy bare Dyneema harness lines on my duotone echo. I found you just hook it under your rear thumb when you pump and no issues.
Trouble was the wing is draft unstable so I would be moving the line back and forth all the time and that sucked having a simple knot.
I put on a windsurfing line. It stays pointed in the same direction and is stiff. So easier to hook into, but you get used to either kind. To pump you twist one of the attachments with your thumb and it’s out of the way. On a real light day or when I’m working on something that will have me falling all the time I flip the whole thing up toward the canopy and it stays wedged there. Can’t do this with any other wing though.
Getting hit in the face by the rigid one hurts even more. I’m going back to the soft ones when I upgrade wings, not to mention they are heavier than you would think.
Nothing beats getting up and hooking in and singing songs upwind, especially since this is the most strenuous part of riding, it’s like a session doubler having a harness.
I also pump insanely hard on light days and am out of breath until my arms burn. Once up on foil I’m almost doubled over so hooking that harness lines saves my butt and I can recover for a few minutes. (I’m young and in shape :P)
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Any tips on how to size the windsurf harness line? Ive got th floppy FOne version on my 5meter swing, but would like to go the windsurf option. Or, do I just go with the adjustable version? Cheers HB
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Any tips on how to size the windsurf harness line? Ive got th floppy FOne version on my 5meter swing, but would like to go the windsurf option. Or, do I just go with the adjustable version? Cheers HB
I got a 32" fixed, based on measuring my previous line I used. It's the sweet spot for me. I use a boom, so maybe your attachment points would be further in if you are non-boomed. Adjustable is not a bad idea.
https://boardsportscalifornia.com/product/severn-quick-fix-harness-lines/
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I winged yesterday in overpowered conditions with gloves and forearm fatigue limited my session so I am looking at harnesses - NSI, Vinaka and The-Nug:
https://rideengine.com/products/the-nug
Anyone try the Nug? Maybe try to incorporate it into my impact vest.
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My harness is built into my impact vest, which has the added benefit of getting me to wear it. the vest also has my leash reel. I've replaced the wimpy attachment that gave me a long self-rescue "opportunity" with a small but strong safety carabiner.
I suspect this is a developing area that will change as wings become more efficient. My discomfort with the Reedin wing diminished instantly when I switched to riding it upwind in the harness. Now it's really a one-handed wing going upwind. Back hand only, raising and lowering the tail of the wing to add or decrease power. Effortless. I haven't figured out downwinding with it yet, but Randy sure has, so I figure I'll get there.
It's hard for me to believe after all this time that I don't have jibes and tacks nailed down. I'm still falling a lot. I probably need to quit farting around with gear and concentrate on achieving the solid skill I see even in people with a much shorter time on the water. I want to go play in the waves, and that's hard to do if you don't have toe/heelside jibes and tacks down pat. I'm still switching feet in the middle of my jibes, and only hitting maybe 30 percent of them.
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I sewed a few belt loops around my vest like Bill and threaded a WIP hook belt through them. Works fantastic. Better than I could have imagined even since I'm regular and the opening is on the right. This allows me to line up the buckle on the right, over the other buckles, and get free sliding on the hook over to my left hip to get it out of the way if I need to paddle or hook in for toe side. Not a ton of support, but its not bad because it's over the back padding on my vest.
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I just ordered the RE Vinaka and RE the-Nug Hook.
Winter with gloves is when I really need the harness and I typically pass on the i-vest since I'm wearing so much rubber. Maybe do something similar with the vest as mentioned here for the warmer months.
I will report after it arrives and I get a few days on it.
Thank you
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I just ordered the RE Vinaka and RE the-Nug Hook.
Winter with gloves is when I really need the harness and I typically pass on the i-vest since I'm wearing so much rubber. Maybe do something similar with the vest as mentioned here for the warmer months.
I will report after it arrives and I get a few days on it.
Thank you
Good upgrade using the plastic hook. The back metal hook that ships with the harness sucks big time. It leaves black marks all over my wife’s board. She uses the plastic one now. I use a stainless 6” windsurf spreader bar on my Vinaka. WTF Ride Engine, a black hook!
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For those 'economically' minded. I (Jeff Clark) found this belt on Amazon $10.
I have used this belt multiple times and it WORKS as a harness. Light weight, just add the plastic NSI hook or whichever you chose. I think the metal roller is probably nickel because I have used this for 3 months and it has some slight scuffing, but no rust.
Can't beat the price. When I went to Hawaii I brought this harness because it wasn't bulky and easily fits in a bag.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08864PL2J/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
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As things begin to freeze up here in Maine, I find the harness ever more useful. Holding onto handles and booms with hand gear warm enough to fend off the frigid water I often find my forearms getting far more pumped than I do during summer riding. Having the ability to loosen my grip and lower an arm keeps the screaming barfies at bay. Not to mention the beauty of just kicking back and relaxing into my harness as I cover ground to some never before seen island 2 miles away. Yes harnesses do get in the way when I'm tacking and such and for those times I prefer to ride without one.
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I just got to try out my Ride Engine Nugs hook with my Blue Planet waist belt leash (I added a weight lifter belt support similar to above amazon link. I actually ran two nugs, as i'm still monostancing it, with one on my left hip and one in the center. I was testing it on the beach and was blown away how well behaved the wing is in the harness (BRM). I also was using a harness line from kitesurfing.com, which has a portion of the spectra line spliced with bungee. Worked super well! Definitely kept me on the water much longer in the cold. Glad to finally have my harness set-up dialed in.
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I haven’t used a purpose-made loop yet, but rather simple random ~7mm cord leftover from climbing. I find having floppy line is easy it slide back and forth as you play the sheet as it were. It also doesn’t hurt much when it whips you in the face while pumping, if you forget to hold it with one hand.
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For those 'economically' minded. I (Jeff Clark) found this belt on Amazon $10.
I have used this belt multiple times and it WORKS as a harness. Light weight, just add the plastic NSI hook or whichever you chose. I think the metal roller is probably nickel because I have used this for 3 months and it has some slight scuffing, but no rust.
Can't beat the price. When I went to Hawaii I brought this harness because it wasn't bulky and easily fits in a bag.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08864PL2J/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Hey Denton, could you explain how the NSI hook attaches or show us a photo? The belt material looks too thick to fit through the slot.
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I just measured the belt material 7mm thick or slightly more than 1/4 inch. The SLOT was cut to fit this thickness.
Here is the hook. It was homemade by Jeff Clark. I think you could cut up cutting board material. It's ~ 3/4" wide.
And the waist belt in action. If you zoom in.
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I just measured the belt material 7mm thick or slightly more than 1/4 inch. The SLOT was cut to fit this thickness.
Here is the hook. It was homemade by Jeff Clark. I think you could cut up cutting board material. It's ~ 3/4" wide.
And the waist belt in action. If you zoom in.
Thanks for the measurement. I have some of that black plastic laying around. I might try to make one.
The Nug looks like it might handle a 7mm strap. That's another option.
https://youtu.be/tF8WJN-VhGw