Standup Zone Forum

The Foil Zone => Sailboat Foiling => Topic started by: Admin on October 14, 2021, 11:39:26 AM

Title: Foiling Sailboats!
Post by: Admin on October 14, 2021, 11:39:26 AM
Oh look, a new board on the forum.  Humor me.   :)

After a season on the bike, I have the foiling bug again.  Yeah, the legs have gone to shit but, se la vie.  I had been eyeing foiling moths a few years back but never pulled the trigger.  Recently, I came across this little foiler (Cobra produced) that looks super fun to me.  I am going to give it a go.  More forgiving that the Moths and a lot less fiddly.  Still can do 20 mph and can foil in 6 knots.  Can be surface sailed with plugs rather than foils, so I can teach the grandkids as well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lhk6Jib3yi4
Title: Re: Foiling Sailboats!
Post by: DavidJohn on October 14, 2021, 01:48:31 PM
Consider this one.. Andy is a friend that Iíve known forever and his boats are very popular down here..

https://youtu.be/EgTnceHunns
Title: Re: Foiling Sailboats!
Post by: Caribsurf on October 14, 2021, 02:21:39 PM
As I age each year, I have been thinking of getting into sailing where I can sit rather than stand and this foil boat caught my eye.  this company out of Rhode Island makes the UFO foil boat

http://www.fulcrumspeedworks.com/UFO/

I have seen some really cool videos.  The only negative itís for one person .
Title: Re: Foiling Sailboats!
Post by: Tom on October 14, 2021, 03:05:29 PM
I am very impressed and interested in the UFO. Would love to learn more about it and if there is anyone on the west coast that sells them.
Title: Re: Foiling Sailboats!
Post by: Caribsurf on October 14, 2021, 08:49:44 PM
Tom just get their e mail from the company website and ask them. They are very nice people and eager to answer any questions.  The videos of their UFOs are from all over the world so they must have decent distributor channel. 
Title: Re: Foiling Sailboats!
Post by: PonoBill on October 14, 2021, 10:58:49 PM
I tried a moth, and even had an order in with some loony Russian who was building them under license. I about killed myself trying to sail the one I demo-ed. Not easy. I saw quite a few of the UFOs in Mission bay last winter. They look like great fun. In theory, they're single-person boats but I saw them two-up numerous times. Whatever you get I want to try it. I'll probably have to get one.
Title: Re: Foiling Sailboats!
Post by: Solent Foiler on October 15, 2021, 02:04:07 AM
Edit - this is not aimed at anyone in particular, just my observation...

We have several Moths at our club, a few sailed to a very high standard. The thing you have to realise about this class of boat is that they are a development class, which means they are all built to a rule that allows a lot of freedom in design. In other words that are almost all different. Yes, you can buy an off the shelf Moth, which will be the same as the next one from that brand, but once they go out into the wild, the owners will change them. New foils, masts, sails, controls to keep up with the latest developments. This is not just chasing top speed, but a lot of the time it's about improving the controls and making the boat easier to sail. A boat that is easier to sail means you can push it harder and sail faster as well as being, well, easier to sail!
The upshot of this is that it takes a huge amount of time to figure out how to set the boats up well and keeping them maintained. Moth are racing boats, and are not designed for the punishment a novice will give it. Hell, even the good guys are forever keeping on top of maintenance jobs. It's a massive investment in time both off and on the water, because you can't just ask someone how to set up your boat. They're all different. You kinda need to figure it out for yourself.

Boats like the UFO and WAZSP are not development classes so have to stay exactly the same. This makes things much easier, as everyone is sailing the same kit, so setup and advice is more easily transferred. You don't get the same level of obsolescence compared to a Moth where the kit is developing all the time. You also get a bit more robustness as they will take that half a step back from the performance vs durability line.

It may sound like I'm bashing the Moths but I'm really not. I have friends who are world class level in the fleet and am surrounded by them when I go winging and they are awesome. They just take a LOT of commitment just to get 'competent', never mind 'fast', and need good fitness so unless you're happy having a 60:40 water to non water time ratio I'd really recommend you look at the non development foiling classes, if you're interested of going that way.
Title: Re: Foiling Sailboats!
Post by: Admin on October 15, 2021, 08:58:26 AM
Yes!  Stoked to see interest in this.  I actually already ordered a Skeeta from Melges (US Distributor) and should have a boat to mess with in November.  I was also very interested in all of the boats mentioned above (and still am).  There are others that looked sweet as well.  It would be cool to see some alternate experiences as I/we get started.

The same group is doing a light sailor/kids boat that "tops out" at 140 lbs but it looks like some of the more advanced larger sailers are using that as well.  If the larger boat (up to 240 lbs) works out we will get a smaller one as well.  They have 3 sail sizes (9.5, 8.5, 7.2) for the larger boat so, a bit of range as well. 

I expect a big learning curve and plenty of dunks.  I think it looks like great fun and I am hopeful that it is possible.

(https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/243251687_4349848745052138_2984379514972220429_n.jpg?_nc_cat=103&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=8V_CC4Ctrl4AX9x14vH&_nc_ht=scontent-sea1-1.xx&oh=abc2b302220319581b535afd61a4b006&oe=618EBFE2)
Title: Re: Foiling Sailboats!
Post by: Solent Foiler on October 15, 2021, 10:51:08 AM
Yes!  Stoked to see interest in this.  I actually already ordered a Skeeta from Melges (US Distributor) and should have a boat to mess with in November.  I was also very interested in all of the boats mentioned above (and still am).  There are others that looked sweet as well.  It would be cool to see some alternate experiences as I/we get started.

The same group is doing a light sailor/kids boat that "tops out" at 140 lbs but it looks like some of the more advanced larger sailers are using that as well.  If the larger boat (up to 240 lbs) works out we will get a smaller one as well.  They have 3 sail sizes (9.5, 8.5, 7.2) for the larger boat so, a bit of range as well. 

I expect a big learning curve and plenty of dunks.  I think it looks like great fun and I am hopeful that it is possible.


There's a guy at my club who has one and they look like a nice foiling package, although he's not doing it justice! With your foiling experience you're well placed to get up and having fun quickly. Biggest difference to winging is relying on the boat to control the ride height, so need a bit of commitment to get up to foiling speed and then faith that the boat won't launch you up and then straight into a crash (although there will be plenty of those too!)  The absence of shrouds at least means you're not going to cheese wire yourself if you do get launched forward on a hard landing.
Title: Re: Foiling Sailboats!
Post by: Caribsurf on October 15, 2021, 11:45:10 AM
Do you need a leash for these things? ;D

But honestly if you were to fly off the back, would it stop in it 's tracks or keep foiling along?
Title: Re: Foiling Sailboats!
Post by: Admin on October 16, 2021, 03:21:24 AM

There's a guy at my club who has one and they look like a nice foiling package, although he's not doing it justice! With your foiling experience you're well placed to get up and having fun quickly. Biggest difference to winging is relying on the boat to control the ride height, so need a bit of commitment to get up to foiling speed and then faith that the boat won't launch you up and then straight into a crash (although there will be plenty of those too!)  The absence of shrouds at least means you're not going to cheese wire yourself if you do get launched forward on a hard landing.

Cool.  It seems fun to learn about active foils and I have everything to learn which is pretty exciting.  On the boat I ordered the lifting foils (lifting foils vs horizontal foils - that is what we foiling sailors call them :) ) are one piece/flapless.  The rudder foil angle is not actively managed but can be adjusted at the tiller end with a knob.  Cool!  The Main foil/Daggerboard foil is actively adjusted by the bow wand.  One nice feature for me is that there is a line which lifts the wand, basically a panic button, which angles the front foil down and immediately lowers the boat to surface mode.  I'll need that :) .

There are shrouds/stays on the Skeeta coming off of a carbon spreader.  They attach the hull, so they aren't quite as wide set as on the some of the Moths which have them way out on the wings, but I am sure you can still find them in the right crash. 

I have been going over the guides.  Reminds me how these things are all really a sum of their (numerous) parts.  Just looking at what is going to break first. 

Good thing that Bill is interested. 

Randy: Broken part, Ahh shit!
Bill:  Broken Part, Ooh project!

https://c2b8221c-7630-4c48-bf1b-0ced22e81900.filesusr.com/ugd/23ea61_1642677be2c74d769bab307f6ddea618.pdf

This video shows the foiling systems of the Skeeta, Nikki and Waszp

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WvKqfAVsxt0
Title: Re: Foiling Sailboats!
Post by: jondrums on October 16, 2021, 09:54:19 AM
I have resisted the massive urge to let myself get into this.  I spent a few years two decades ago deeply in the international canoe racing/development class.  Super fun boat but being a development class generally means the boat is broken more often than it is sailing.  There was always a few van guys with a full composite layup tools and materials ready to help people patch stuff up and get back out there the next day.  And everyone pitched in on the late-nighter repair because if they didn't there would only be 3 guys on the starting line instead of 4.  The awesome part was showing up for a 3-day regatta and seeing all the cool mods people had done since the last one.  We all copied each other and would show up at the next one with our own version of whatever was working best.  Super invigorating, but I usually spent a week of all-nighters leading up to a regatta.  Can't do that with the way my life is now - maybe again when I retire.

The moth class is pretty much like this too as far as I can tell.

I'm crossing my fingers for you that the boat you picked is well made and doesn't break something every other crash.  That's the real drag on these things.   
Title: Re: Foiling Sailboats!
Post by: PonoBill on October 16, 2021, 07:42:54 PM
I came by your house yesterday when I was out tearing up forest service roads on my little KTM murdercycle. So much fun. I wound up on Old Dalles road (all roads lead to Mosier), so I stopped by to see what you guys were up to. The car was there but it looked mighty quiet, so I didn't bang on the door, especially since in all my motorcycle garb I look like a serial killer.

Next time I'll bang. Don't shoot, I want to talk about foil sailboats.

For that matter, I thought I saw Chan in Rosauers today. Two things prevented me from saying "Hi Chan". She was a little bit larger in all dimensions, she was wearing a mask, and the notion of Chan shopping for groceries seems a little off. If they were selling Crypto currency or perhaps had a day trading kiosk I would have known it was her.
Title: Re: Foiling Sailboats!
Post by: PonoBill on October 16, 2021, 07:47:49 PM
So I read the Skeetah manual. This thing looks a lot like flying Ultralights in the '80s. Everything is going to bend, stretch, twist or break. At least it won't do all that 3500 feet in the air.
Title: Re: Foiling Sailboats!
Post by: Admin on October 17, 2021, 02:15:19 AM
I dig the design and the way the Skeeta looks foiling but I am wide open to an alternate.  Talk me out of it.  :) I just want something easy enough to get me going but close enough to the moth/waszp thing that it can potentially transfer.  Or potentially the Skeeta is already in that leauge, fun-wise.  Not sure.  Waszp looks very nice but without already having the specific skills at the ready I don't think it would be possible for me right now. 

This guy did a season on the Skeeta and then moved on to a Waszp.  I am reading others going in the opposite direction.  Par for the course?  He praised the boat but did mention that it is not the most robust construction.  Light, strong, and large enough to be stable is tricky. These Skeetas are Cobra Epoxy construction.  Strong for windsurfers and such but a long way from a fiberglas laser, I am sure.   

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nYoZVwq5DXU&t=334s

These guys are doing sail foiling camps and rental in Skeetas and Waszps on Lake Garda (Looks beautiful).  Smart thing may be to go and try first :) . 

https://stickl.com/foiling_camp_gardasee_stickl/skeeta_foilen_gardasee/
Title: Re: Foiling Sailboats!
Post by: PonoBill on October 17, 2021, 07:22:13 AM
OK, the Skeetah is pretty cool. I was thinking more like UFO, but all the boats look like too much fun. I'm in. Fixing bent and twisted stuff is just part of the adventure. The lake Garda lessons look cool and would probably be a reasonable first step. It is, however, in Italy, which is hard to drive to and would require eating a lot of food. It's also the start of the Dolomites which means other travels in the area would be required. The website is apparently in Klingon, but there is, fortunately, a Klingon to American translate button. I don't know what currency the prices are listed in, from what I recall of the the lake Garda area (been there once on a motorcycle trip) it might be in Krugerrands.
Title: Re: Foiling Sailboats!
Post by: Admin on October 18, 2021, 08:20:43 AM
This guy is hitting 25 MPH in his Skeeta.  So cool.  I am guessing he is hitting the limits of the foils.  They certainly are yelling at him.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rTc2o5rgH18

We are sure to do some damage if we get near those speeds.  On the upside, there is an incredible aftermarket moth part business, a lot of which should be adaptable. 

These guys are making the Skeeta carbon bits Mast booms, etc, but check out the sexy moth stuff: https://cst-marine.com/moth/

https://cdn11.bigcommerce.com/s-fni6c0u228/images/stencil/1280x1280/products/126/700/2021-3-24_10.24.18__68523.1627869413.jpg?c=2?imbypass=on

and these 3D sails are the shit (and cheap :) ):

https://www.northsails.com/sailing/store/international-moth-bi-9dsx-mainsail

We clearly need this!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OCFEYvqXDus
Title: Re: Foiling Sailboats!
Post by: Solent Foiler on October 18, 2021, 09:15:06 AM
Lake Garda is a stunning place to sail and spend time. Raced there a few times and has never disappointed. Hoping to go out for foiling week with my brother in law at some point with the wing.

The sexy carbon stuff is like moths to a flame. Almost irresistible, and costly! Having said that, I'm looking forward to getting my 999 just so I can show my Moth buddies that yes, we also have thin, high aspect foils too now!

Perhaps unfair, but interesting to compare the footage of the Skeeta going downwind vs a well sailed Moth or Waszp, which basically has the main pinned on the centre line the whole time as the apparent wind is always forward, irrespective of the direction you're sailing.

Can you foiling tack a Skeeta? That was a bit of 'holy grail' in Moth foiling initially, a bit like a winging back flip. Once it was demonstrated possible, it caught on pretty quick, but it did making racing a bit uneven, split between those who could and could not for a time. Still pretty challenging to learn, by all accounts...
Title: Re: Foiling Sailboats!
Post by: Admin on October 18, 2021, 09:44:29 AM
Can you foiling tack a Skeeta? That was a bit of 'holy grail' in Moth foiling initially, a bit like a winging back flip. Once it was demonstrated possible, it caught on pretty quick, but it did making racing a bit uneven, split between those who could and could not for a time. Still pretty challenging to learn, by all accounts...

He does a couple of foiling tacks in this vid.  It is a very cool technique!  I have always wanted to visit Lake Garda.  This may be an excuse!

https://youtu.be/Lhk6Jib3yi4
Title: Re: Foiling Sailboats!
Post by: Admin on October 19, 2021, 06:21:16 AM
The sexy carbon stuff is like moths to a flame. Almost irresistible, and costly! Having said that, I'm looking forward to getting my 999 just so I can show my Moth buddies that yes, we also have thin, high aspect foils too now!

Perhaps unfair, but interesting to compare the footage of the Skeeta going downwind vs a well sailed Moth or Waszp, which basically has the main pinned on the centre line the whole time as the apparent wind is always forward, irrespective of the direction you're sailing.

Hah!  You will like this.  His conclusion, "They're pretty simple, the moths".  Yeah coming from an America's cup background :).  Check out his vang system.  They have those rigs crazy tensioned.  So cool, and massively efficient like you said.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nF6glJ-Mxw8
Title: Re: Foiling Sailboats!
Post by: PonoBill on October 19, 2021, 07:01:45 AM
It does seem quite weird that the alternative boats to a moth have such an unusual and probably inefficient sail-to-mast connection. You just don't see loose-footed and loose-luff sails very often.
Title: Re: Foiling Sailboats!
Post by: tarquin on October 19, 2021, 08:09:48 AM
As solentfoiler has said moths are full on race boats. The Skeetas and Ufo's are get you out there foiling boats. Not in the same price or skill bracket. That boom and mainsheet system on the Moth probably costs more than the whole rig and sail on the Skeeta.
 I nearly bought a UFO years ago. It was a demo boat bought to France. A mate was selling a moth at the same time. He laughed when I said I might be interested in buying it. He spent months of swimming and frustration to just get OK. Where as a Skeeta or UFO you can jump on and be foiling a few hours later.
 
Title: Re: Foiling Sailboats!
Post by: Admin on October 19, 2021, 08:59:18 AM
Skeeta or UFO you can jump on and be foiling a few hours later.

Even a few months sounds great!  I am ready to fly again :)
Title: Re: Foiling Sailboats!
Post by: jondrums on October 19, 2021, 09:18:18 AM
https://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/boa/d/sunnyvale-ufo-foiling-sailboat/7393400354.html
Title: Re: Foiling Sailboats!
Post by: Admin on October 19, 2021, 11:28:58 AM
This is great.  Just the listings from October will keep you busy.  These guys are turning stuff over like wing foilers :)

I have no good reason to be looking at this stuff...but I love it.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/399647313568164/
Title: Re: Foiling Sailboats!
Post by: tarquin on October 19, 2021, 10:08:13 PM
Yes the turn over of Moths is quick. Oh you bought that last week!!!!! Don't bother racing it anymore. Its why my friend sold his for half the price he bought it for. Another reason not to buy a Moth.
 
 
Title: Re: Foiling Sailboats!
Post by: tarquin on October 19, 2021, 10:23:00 PM
Look at getting things fixed and replacement cost.
 The UFO 's are well built. There is a great vid of how they build them and are constantly changing to keep things as efficient as possible.
 The Skeeta was not in production when I looked.
 
Title: Re: Foiling Sailboats!
Post by: tarquin on October 20, 2021, 01:02:16 AM
Like trying to compare anything these days. One gives overall weight one is just hull. Inches/cm.
 How they are built. Epoxy or other resin. How the foils are built etc. Where they are made. Thats what I looked into. The Skeeta was only for sale in Oz.
 Will they stay in production and bring out new foils and sails.
 
Title: Re: Foiling Sailboats!
Post by: Admin on October 20, 2021, 02:03:53 AM
Look at getting things fixed and replacement cost.
 The UFO 's are well built. There is a great vid of how they build them and are constantly changing to keep things as efficient as possible.
 The Skeeta was not in production when I looked.
 

Those are all great points.  UFO looks nice as well.  The Skeeta design and videos drew me in but I can see advantages to both.  Skeetas are just now showing up here in the USA.  The distributor told me that the first container went to SailGP team who did some demos with them and I believe some made it into the wild.  They are expecting the first container in November for open order.  These are Cobra Epoxy boats.  Durability remains to be seen.   The partner brands and components that I have seen look good.  Not Moth level Sexy but well done.  This is all web stuff though, so always a bit of an unknown and a gamble. 

(https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/s1080x2048/118517002_3068480889946513_431358163441764267_n.jpg?_nc_cat=105&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=9267fe&_nc_ohc=0aVw0fyYHmUAX815vor&_nc_ht=scontent-sea1-1.xx&oh=1dccb5c36f80c5b6a1c41ed2f39be1e2&oe=61956DC8)

(https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/s1080x2048/109939376_2975810122546924_5302239745917886945_n.jpg?_nc_cat=101&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=9267fe&_nc_ohc=0bIrOQsyxM8AX8OIPhP&tn=Mpi6ybnAUbiiGu7w&_nc_ht=scontent-sea1-1.xx&oh=f9922890ad713779690c8fe10316ba05&oe=6195FF59)

(https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/s1080x2048/97829993_2808190959308842_1439767458180235264_n.jpg?_nc_cat=100&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=rkXB63VoCGkAX-McWlW&_nc_ht=scontent-sea1-1.xx&oh=c55ef30b73b93ff9a0296ba7c385ef74&oe=6196575E)

Title: Re: Foiling Sailboats!
Post by: Admin on October 20, 2021, 02:04:59 AM
https://www.facebook.com/SkeetaFoiling/videos/255109112354851

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=beCxHn-OFHU
Title: Re: Foiling Sailboats!
Post by: tarquin on October 20, 2021, 02:38:22 AM
https://bigtoysonline.com/produit/foiling-dinghy-nouveau-voilier-a-foil/
 Another one!
Title: Re: Foiling Sailboats!
Post by: tarquin on October 20, 2021, 07:21:01 AM
https://youtu.be/_i6CXOWhIN8
Title: Re: Foiling Sailboats!
Post by: Admin on October 21, 2021, 06:35:42 AM
Great video.

The various rig types are going about it very differently.  Kind of choose your flavor.

I don't think there is much of a question who's king :)

Check out how granular you can get with this Moth rig.  Holy shit is that an impressive piece of kit.  40 MPH on water is rare air for sure but it is way cool to see how they get there.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XBQokdXk_8g&list=WL
Title: Re: Foiling Sailboats!
Post by: PonoBill on October 21, 2021, 08:47:17 AM
Holy shit, no way I'd want to do all that fucking around to go sail. I'm going to take that to the next level--I'm probably going to get the UFO instead of the Sketah. The UFO looks simple and straightforward. Just like me. I like the look of the Foiling Dingy and its surface-piercing foils. A similar layout to the Geezer foil that I tried to build. I wonder what I did with those foils?? But yeah, I think the UFO is a winner for distraction-boy.
Title: Re: Foiling Sailboats!
Post by: Admin on October 21, 2021, 10:25:05 AM
I am sure there are benefits and it will be cool to have you on a different system. 

Check out the rigging on the UFO here to see if it suits you:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GaI0e63whvU&t=1141s

Waszp here:

https://youtu.be/kF90Yz48eJ4

Skeeta Here (said to be 15 minutes from a foils on start point, only 5 minutes if you can store mast up):

https://youtu.be/sZKcYdiRCsY

There are pretty big price differences in the boats.  In some areas this is fairly apparent.

This was my rig over-analysis:

Current Moth:  Carbon mast, full luff sleeve with many camber inducers, Carbon Spreader with shrouds/stays, Sailboat style carbon boom with gooseneck, Individual Cunningham and Vang.  High foot (easy to get under during transitions). All lines forward.  Extreme tension rig design, Most difficult to rig

Skeeta:  Carbon mast, no luff sleeve, Carbon Spreader with shrouds/stays.  Sliding track/halyard system, No Camber inducers (RAF style), Sailboat style carbon boom with gooseneck, Unified adjustable Cunningham and Vang.  High foot (easy to get under during transitions). All lines forward.  Low tension rig design, Easiest to rig

Waszp: Windsurf style rig on a carbon Mast, Full Luff Sleeve, Camber inducers, no shrouds/stays, dangling wishbone style aluminum boom, downhaul only, foot very low to deck.  Sheets from the clew (behind the skipper).  Looks like a windsurf level tension on rig, Second Easiest to rig

UFO:  Carbon Mast, no luff sleeve, track halyard system (significant feeding required), No shrouds/stays, Carbon wishbone style boom with aluminum spreaders, downhaul only, foot very low to deck at decksweeper, a bit more room aft of that.  Sheets from the clew (behind the skipper).  Third easiest to rig
Title: Re: Foiling Sailboats!
Post by: Caribsurf on October 21, 2021, 11:01:50 AM
I have been talking to Kirk from Fulcrum (UFO manufacturer)  a lot this summer mainly about their new small sailboat the Rocket.
I told him of all the talk on the "Zone regarding foiling sailboats. 

He said if anyone has questions about the UFO shoot him an e-mail..

ufosailing@gmail.com
Title: Re: Foiling Sailboats!
Post by: Tom on October 21, 2021, 01:38:00 PM
The foiling dingy looks fun but it doesn't fly very high above the water. I doubt it could do a full foiling jibe. I'm thinking the UFO would be all around fun but with not the high performance of the Skeeta but still fast. As a windsurfer I appreciate simplicity and know that a bit of adjustment to outhaul and downhaul can change performance a lot. I contacted both Skeeta and UFO and they are happy to ship their boats to the West coast but they only do direct sales.
Guess I'll have to run down an owner or maybe find a boat show.

Title: Re: Foiling Sailboats!
Post by: Admin on October 22, 2021, 04:27:41 AM
Yup,  the centerline/inline foilers look too cool for these small boats.  Plus, it is closer to what we are used to.

It strikes me that with everything happening at the centerline, one (by one, I mean Bill) could build a sick (rectangular) narrow (6 inches?), overbuilt, fuselage centerline box with multiple attachment points for wand, mast stump, all rigging attachments, through-foil, wings, gantry, etc.  You could then bolt on various hull shapes/designs (probably slotted).  Modular, infinitely adjustable, super strong, upgradable.  Everything could mount to this box or the wings. 

Oh, the mind does move...

Title: Re: Foiling Sailboats!
Post by: Solent Foiler on October 22, 2021, 08:20:27 AM
Or you could just say that hulls are superfluous amd overrated!?!
https://youtu.be/Y7ie5C1-b3w (https://youtu.be/Y7ie5C1-b3w)
Title: Re: Foiling Sailboats!
Post by: Admin on October 22, 2021, 10:51:19 AM
That is so great!

Title: Re: Foiling Sailboats!
Post by: PonoBill on October 22, 2021, 08:11:39 PM
From what I could tell from my position slowly drowning myself, the hull of a moth is mostly imaginary. That's simply a more obvious way to have to swim back to shore.
Title: Re: Foiling Sailboats!
Post by: Admin on October 24, 2021, 02:27:31 AM
From what I could tell from my position slowly drowning myself, the hull of a moth is mostly imaginary. That's simply a more obvious way to have to swim back to shore.

Check out this (really nicely detailed)  moth build.  Incredible.  It boggles my mind that these things can bear (what I imagine to be) these loads, even for a short while.  No sane person would think that you should ever be united with one of these. 

https://www.sail-world.com/news/229181/How-to-home-build-a-Moth

(https://www.sail-world.com/photos/internationalmoth/yandy287008.jpg)

(https://www.sail-world.com/photos/internationalmoth/yandy287009.jpg)

(https://www.sail-world.com/photos/internationalmoth/yandy287012.jpg)
Title: Re: Foiling Sailboats!
Post by: headmount on October 24, 2021, 11:16:08 PM
There used to be this thing quite a few years ago, before foiling as we know arrived, called the trifoiler.  Laird and some others were toying around with it off Kuau and this older guy, older than Pono, got convinced to try it.  So with totally inadequate training, he jumps into the thing and begins going bat outta hell fast.  Finally crashed into the rocks.  Trashed the boat and banged himself up pretty bad.  The guy was a big deal, owner of all the Bally Health clubs you see in many hotels, lives in Malibu, the works.  "Yeah, piece of cake.  Anyone can do it."
Title: Re: Foiling Sailboats!
Post by: Admin on December 02, 2021, 02:41:54 AM
This showed up this week.  It is a really cool package.  Getting it set up now....slowly.  I am planning to leave mine as set up as possible but everything comes in a group of delightful padded bags.  SWEEET!  Very stoked to see what is possible. 
Title: Re: Foiling Sailboats!
Post by: Dwight (DW) on December 02, 2021, 04:51:05 AM
Looks fun
Title: Re: Foiling Sailboats!
Post by: PonoBill on December 02, 2021, 10:19:28 AM
If we don't strangle ourselves doing this it won't be for lack of opportunity.

But yes, that is so very cool.
Title: Re: Foiling Sailboats!
Post by: Admin on December 03, 2021, 02:27:44 AM
If we don't strangle ourselves doing this it won't be for lack of opportunity.

But yes, that is so very cool.

We will need to add to the universal set of hand signals.  One for, "I'm stuck in the foot strap" seems mandatory.

This is a cool little running upgrade.  The tiller (left) has an aluminum adjustment knob at the end which adjusts the rear foil angle on the fly.  That can now be adjusted by twisting the extension (Battlestick on the right).  It is indexed with 5 really notable clicks.  It will be cool to see how that interacts with the wand controlling the front foil angle. 
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