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General => The Shape Shack => Topic started by: PonoBill on October 05, 2021, 09:56:41 PM

Title: Deck pad
Post by: PonoBill on October 05, 2021, 09:56:41 PM
I'm putting together the deck pad for my new wind foil board. Mark Raaphorst just finished making the board. It's waiting for me in Maui. The deck will be matte black. I want to keep the board as light as possible, and I love the feel of thin cork pads anyway, so I'm going to use RSPRO Hexatraction cork for the pad. I fired up my laser cutter/engraver to do this...  The pad in the front moved while it was being lasered so I had to do it over. I'll also dye some of the pads black and figure out some kind of cool pattern. I told Diane I was going to do a "swoosh" of black or red. She said, "red will fade to pink and you should let me do the design". One of the perils of being married to a graphic designer. Fortunately, she likes the gecko.

(https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/244435578_10158580793098668_1835055080317548913_n.jpg?_nc_cat=103&_nc_rgb565=1&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=vu9JOpCBJp8AX8ijIXx&_nc_ht=scontent-sea1-1.xx&oh=10a673d65be7e49614864e596955fafa&oe=618405BE)
Title: Re: Deck pad
Post by: burchas on October 06, 2021, 06:12:23 AM
Whatís the story behind the Lizard, is this a ploy to reduce your Geico insurance for the board?

Btw, it is somewhat rude to mention a new wing board by Raaphorst without sharing a pic or two, just saying  :P
Title: Re: Deck pad
Post by: PonoBill on October 06, 2021, 06:23:07 AM
Here's the top, it's dusty, will eventually be matte black--basically carbon fiber color with a seal coat over it--not clear and shiny like hotcoat. Mark added the rulers and tape so I could see the dimensions of the pad area. (https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/242937655_10158571558268668_8948137013790424847_n.jpg?_nc_cat=111&_nc_rgb565=1&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=w1Qo2rz_A1wAX8IPmkv&tn=WphXWxv6ufHoqzOb&_nc_ht=scontent-sea1-1.xx&oh=824420c01385bd5e310d3da23b6069c7&oe=61842492)

And here's the bottom. Just enough white to keep it from baking in the Maui sun. Flat, squared tail, a little nose kick. 5'11" X 30" I think--whatever Mark could get out of the blank. Somewhere in the 130L range. Geezer balance requires a bit more board than my 102kg actually needs.  (https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/242722290_10158571558163668_8320744767131358946_n.jpg?_nc_cat=101&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=YWFvp2SCIbAAX-5E5H1&tn=WphXWxv6ufHoqzOb&_nc_ht=scontent-sea1-1.xx&oh=8cb47597144d9eeb8e06a5c38f749e54&oe=618384DA)

Why did we never shift to metric? Life would be so much easier. Inches and pounds suck.
Title: Re: Deck pad
Post by: burchas on October 06, 2021, 07:13:45 AM
Great looking board 8) I like the looks of the step deck. I guess not a bad idea to have that extra volume when you want to go out on lighter days.
I thought you're going to go with a much longer tracks as I know you like to tinker? How far back are those tracks and what's the calculation behind it?
don't even get me started on pounds and inches ::)
Title: Re: Deck pad
Post by: PonoBill on October 06, 2021, 07:34:33 AM
They are regular ten-inch tracks. Chinook makes 16" ones now expressly for foil. If you don't need them (I don't) then it's added weight. But that reminds me, I'm supposed to pick some up for Mark.
Title: Re: Deck pad
Post by: PonoBill on October 07, 2021, 09:14:36 PM
With some black segments. I tried dyeing them but it didn't work well, so I inked them. This is the kind of shit that happens when there's no wind in Hood River, I'm waiting for parts for the three motorcycle projects I'm working on, and I should be mowing the cheatgrass in the back of my shop lot and wiring up my new/old rotary compressor. I don't the technical term. Avoidance??

(https://scontent.fhio3-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/244064730_10158581922903668_6967400184225134379_n.jpg?_nc_cat=109&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=dbeb18&_nc_ohc=Q33g0KF2LZ0AX_U4Lp-&_nc_ht=scontent.fhio3-1.fna&oh=fb2d3bd73f56f2415429f8f031022234&oe=6185D373)
Title: Re: Deck pad
Post by: jondrums on November 30, 2021, 03:04:07 PM
I'm looking at doing my next board with a cork deckpad.  What do you all think of this 3mm 24"x36" sheet ? - its cheaper than the same size EVA deckpad from NSI

http://www.corkstore.com/Products/Cork-Sheets-CR117/CR117-Cork-Sheet-PSA-3mm
Title: Re: Deck pad
Post by: burchas on November 30, 2021, 03:22:06 PM
I'm looking at doing my next board with a cork deckpad.  What do you all think of this 3mm 24"x36" sheet ? - its cheaper than the same size EVA deckpad from NSI

http://www.corkstore.com/Products/Cork-Sheets-CR117/CR117-Cork-Sheet-PSA-3mm

If you looking for cheaper, you can have the same material at a fraction of the price without the backing:
https://www.grainger.com/product/GRAINGER-APPROVED-Cork-Sheet-4NMG2

Add the cost of a 3M Super 77 and you're still way ahead price wise.
https://www.amazon.com/Super-77-Multipurpose-Spray-Adhesive/dp/B08ZFMYCBM/ref=sr_1_1?crid=UQ4HDG48U3J6&keywords=3m%2Bsuper%2B77%2Bspray%2Badhesive&qid=1638314337&qsid=140-8219564-8812013&sprefix=3m%2Bsuper%2Caps%2C172&sr=8-1&sres=B08ZFMYCBM%2CB01DAEMBI6%2CB0065VCXSA%2CB0043BKMV4%2CB07739QBJ8%2CB0131SZ660%2CB01LZQVQM8%2CB0046VN8FI%2CB001S2JLTA%2CB01MFA2EEE%2CB076QFP8MM%2CB0134QBAKU%2CB009A5AFHE%2CB077321ZW2%2CB002KE10OE%2CB00OI6FIF4&srpt=BONDING_ADHESIVES&th=1
Title: Re: Deck pad
Post by: jondrums on November 30, 2021, 03:39:41 PM
wow, yes that's cheap.  can't afford not to try it at that price.

Pono - the RSPro hex look like they are 1mm thick - I wonder if I should be going with 1.5mm instead of 3mm.  I guess I could get both and see which feels better
Title: Re: Deck pad
Post by: Vancouver_foiler on November 30, 2021, 05:00:11 PM
I'm looking at doing my next board with a cork deckpad.  What do you all think of this 3mm 24"x36" sheet ? - its cheaper than the same size EVA deckpad from NSI

http://www.corkstore.com/Products/Cork-Sheets-CR117/CR117-Cork-Sheet-PSA-3mm

If you looking for cheaper, you can have the same material at a fraction of the price without the backing:
https://www.grainger.com/product/GRAINGER-APPROVED-Cork-Sheet-4NMG2

Add the cost of a 3M Super 77 and you're still way ahead price wise.
https://www.amazon.com/Super-77-Multipurpose-Spray-Adhesive/dp/B08ZFMYCBM/ref=sr_1_1?crid=UQ4HDG48U3J6&keywords=3m%2Bsuper%2B77%2Bspray%2Badhesive&qid=1638314337&qsid=140-8219564-8812013&sprefix=3m%2Bsuper%2Caps%2C172&sr=8-1&sres=B08ZFMYCBM%2CB01DAEMBI6%2CB0065VCXSA%2CB0043BKMV4%2CB07739QBJ8%2CB0131SZ660%2CB01LZQVQM8%2CB0046VN8FI%2CB001S2JLTA%2CB01MFA2EEE%2CB076QFP8MM%2CB0134QBAKU%2CB009A5AFHE%2CB077321ZW2%2CB002KE10OE%2CB00OI6FIF4&srpt=BONDING_ADHESIVES&th=1

Wow, he'll of a deal. I'm going to check if they offer it up in Canada eh!
Title: Re: Deck pad
Post by: Vancouver_foiler on November 30, 2021, 11:30:56 PM
I'm looking at doing my next board with a cork deckpad.  What do you all think of this 3mm 24"x36" sheet ? - its cheaper than the same size EVA deckpad from NSI

http://www.corkstore.com/Products/Cork-Sheets-CR117/CR117-Cork-Sheet-PSA-3mm

What's your plan for your next board John?
Title: Re: Deck pad
Post by: jondrums on December 01, 2021, 11:40:44 PM
kings is going to make it for me this time
Title: Re: Deck pad
Post by: tarquin on December 02, 2021, 12:38:32 AM
I have used cork a bit for deckpads and skateboards.
 It really varies in quality. Some is crumbly and just falls apart. Depends on what glue they use,pressure etc when making it.
 In general I have found the fine granual stuff lasts longer but is heavier and harder. It has less voids. If you can find stuff that is larger granuals that is glued together well without voids its good.
 If you vac bag it with epoxy its rock hard. For deck pads better to glue it down with neoprene glue. As mentioned theq 3M spray stuff is good.
 Try and contact the company and see what sort of glue they use and if they have different granual sizes.
Title: Re: Deck pad
Post by: PonoBill on December 02, 2021, 10:39:51 AM
The RSPRO cork pads are holding up amazingly well. In my usual fashion I've been abusing them and the look like new.
Title: Re: Deck pad
Post by: Califoilia on December 02, 2021, 10:58:54 AM
kings is going to make it for me this time
Nice!! Great looking shape. 8)
Title: Re: Deck pad
Post by: pafoil on December 02, 2021, 08:26:28 PM
For a sup board or light wind a recommend the RSpro hexatraction. The board feels a lot lighter as itís not taking water. You are in direct contact with the board, as there is no padding. Some people like the last part other not so much.
Title: Re: Deck pad
Post by: jondrums on February 27, 2022, 03:52:28 PM
Board came out great, first morning on it today.  The RSPro cork feels amazing, I love it.  But it already started peeling up - I cleaned the board with alcohol before applying, weird huh?

(https://i.imgur.com/WFBQBnS.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/dVzHHl8.jpg)
Title: Re: Deck pad
Post by: PonoBill on February 27, 2022, 04:21:27 PM
Looks beautiful. Let it dry and put a little weight on it. the RSPRO glue seems to kind of heal itself. I had one tile that lifted in a corner. I let it air dry and put a 20 pound hand weight on it with the board in the sun. All better.
Title: Re: Deck pad
Post by: Califoilia on February 27, 2022, 06:14:32 PM
Great looking board! But what's up with that paddle blade? :o :-\
Title: Re: Deck pad
Post by: PonoBill on February 28, 2022, 12:17:03 PM
Great looking board! But what's up with that paddle blade? :o :-\
Looks like foil munches.
Title: Re: Deck pad
Post by: jondrums on February 28, 2022, 02:54:48 PM
yes, I keep nailing the leading edge of the foil while paddle-pumping.  Starts with cracking and eventually progresses to part of the paddle breaking off. 

Although I recently discovered that I am much more successful if I hold my paddle shaft in one hand and swing my arms like prone pumping.  Putting the paddle in the water really helps recover when I'm about to fall off foil, but with better pumping form I'm not at risk of falling off foil as much. 
Title: Re: Deck pad
Post by: PonoBill on March 01, 2022, 08:32:27 PM
You're doing well to just be taking bits of the tip off. If you dig deep with a long shaft and a wide wing the foil will take off the blade like it was on a twig.
Title: Re: Deck pad
Post by: Vancouver_foiler on March 01, 2022, 08:55:13 PM
I've got an extra paddle blade if you want me to send it down to ya Jon! Dangerous paddle blade there lol
Title: Re: Deck pad
Post by: PonoBill on March 02, 2022, 09:05:10 AM
You can certainly trim that blade, or build it back up with fiberglass and sand it smooth. That looks like a Ke Nalu blade (I'm intimately familiar with those) and the foam core doesn't start for about another half-inch, so you can feel fairly safe trimming and sanding. If you do hit foam (you won't) you can dig the foam out about half an inch deep, fill the gap with epoxy and clamp it with waxed paper around the end. I've done this a few times fixing friends' disasters.
Title: Re: Deck pad
Post by: jondrums on March 04, 2022, 02:38:11 PM
color me surprised!  the cork deck pads DID self heal.  I just pressed them back down and left them in a warm place for a day and they survived the next session, so I think I'm good.

I will say that I'm not happy with the wide flat tail.  The board wants to stick to the water badly.  Still need to experiment with mast plate shim to see if that helps, but a few sessions in I'm already thinking I need to take a saw to the tail and cut some foam away and reglass. 
Title: Re: Deck pad
Post by: Dwight (DW) on March 04, 2022, 03:36:27 PM
Too much straight is behind the mast. Tons of flat holding it down, stuck to the water. Look at all the flat tails. Tracks are way back.  You canít pump your board. You can only slide it up to speed.

Kalama has his track way forward, but, so much area is cut way making the big V, it will still pump.
Title: Re: Deck pad
Post by: PonoBill on March 04, 2022, 05:42:55 PM
Yeah, that RSPRO adhesive is some kind of magic. I've used the same piece of RSPRO rail tape on multiple boards. In fact, most of the boards I currently have are using rail tape that was previously on something else. I think the stuff on the deck pads is the same magic adhesive.

When I've stripped it off to put it on a new board I always get fingerprints and sections that won't stay down. I don't even really need weight to get it to stick, just taping it down temporarily is enough, but weight and sun makes it happen faster.

The Bullet 17 V2 in this pic has rail tape that has been on three different boards. the Ku Nalu on the top has rail tape from a Foote board I broke in half at Kanaha. The stuff is initially expensive but it gets downright cheap when you use it for decades.  Yeah, I pay retail, generally from NSI. I know Carles Carrera from the early days of the zone, but I've never asked him for a thing--I'm too fucking lazy for that. Every board in this picture has RSPRO on it but the yellow Footie on the bottom. Even the OC1 in the background has RSPRO on it. When you find something that good, you stick with it.
Title: Re: Deck pad
Post by: Dontsink on March 05, 2022, 05:08:40 AM
I will say that I'm not happy with the wide flat tail.  The board wants to stick to the water badly.  Still need to experiment with mast plate shim to see if that helps, but a few sessions in I'm already thinking I need to take a saw to the tail and cut some foam away and reglass.

What DW said is golden advice.

When i added an EVA foam "flat tail" to my Indiana 105l SUP it became amost impossible to pump.I have cut the sides of the foam,about 1/4 of the width on each side.Much better.

If you like your mast forward to have minimum swing inertia you can do steps on the sides, a kalama V etc...whatever maintains a good release&maximum waterline but makes the tail more sinkable.
North boards have steps,Armstrong mixes a bit of rocker with reverse bevel (on top).So many options :).
Title: Re: Deck pad
Post by: pafoil on March 05, 2022, 06:58:37 AM
This works for me. My only sup these days. 6,2 by 23,5
Title: Re: Deck pad
Post by: Califoilia on March 06, 2022, 11:15:22 PM
I will say that I'm not happy with the wide flat tail.  The board wants to stick to the water badly.  Still need to experiment with mast plate shim to see if that helps, but a few sessions in I'm already thinking I need to take a saw to the tail and cut some foam away and reglass.

What DW said is golden advice.

When i added an EVA foam "flat tail" to my Indiana 105l SUP it became amost impossible to pump.I have cut the sides of the foam,about 1/4 of the width on each side.Much better.

If you like your mast forward to have minimum swing inertia you can do steps on the sides, a kalama V etc...whatever maintains a good release&maximum waterline but makes the tail more sinkable.
North boards have steps,Armstrong mixes a bit of rocker with reverse bevel (on top).So many options :).

Yes, I had to go from this....
(https://i.imgur.com/NZZdgRw.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/UmhKylS.jpg?1)
...to this...

(https://i.imgur.com/njrH4nr.jpg?1) (https://i.imgur.com/Z1FWFhT.jpg?1)
...to break the adhesion of the flat tail's bottom off the water if I wanted the mast far enough forward to surf with vs winging.
Title: Re: Deck pad
Post by: JohnnyTsunami on March 16, 2022, 10:43:00 AM
Any reason not to use plain EVA high density 2mm foam and double sided 3m tape? Iím looking for a light weight solution for a wing board and the diamond patterns are too grippy for my taste. I loved the corduroy of my fone board, but Iím thinking plain with no texture would work just as well.

Anyone tried this?
Title: Re: Deck pad
Post by: Dusk Patrol on March 16, 2022, 04:00:40 PM

I've bought deck pad material from NSI in the past. They have a variety of finishes other than diamond, including a flat brushed.

https://www.northshoreinc.com/store/pc/viewCategories.asp?idCategory=212
Title: Re: Deck pad
Post by: EastCoastFoiler on March 17, 2022, 03:43:27 AM
If you have a deck pad already and the texture is too much you can just sand it down to get to the texture you want.  80 grit on a random orbital will do a great job.
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