Standup Zone Forum

The Foil Zone => Wingsurfing, Windfoiling, Wingfoiling, Wing SUP => Topic started by: Oldmansurf on October 03, 2021, 10:10:44 AM

Title: Beginner Wing Foiling Gear for an old guy
Post by: Oldmansurf on October 03, 2021, 10:10:44 AM
60 year old, 5'11" 80kg in decent shape living in VA Beach.  Started surfing 10 years ago, SUP racing and surfing 7 years ago, and now looking to SUP and Wing Foil in waters around VA Beach- no past wind sport experience.  Bought a Naish 5M Matador and have been practicing with it on my Sunova Speeed 9'2". 

Not much of any used gear to be found around here, and no local shops. Happy to spend the money to get the proper gear that will help me progress as rapidly as possible.  From what I understand, I will need a large volume board, and foil with a large front wing.  Based on what I see in shops where I purchased SUP gear online, I am considering the new Fanatic 2022 Sky foil board (6'3" 140 L) and the more expensive Armstrong FG SUP Foil Board (6'4" 132L).  Also considering the Armstrong Foil 2400 with the 72 cm mast and 60 cm fuselage.

Any thoughts or recommendations for a total newbie would be appreciated.  Thanks.
Title: Re: Beginner Wing Foiling Gear for an old guy
Post by: Foilgeoff on October 03, 2021, 12:07:23 PM
Those are some good choices and I wouldn't quibble with any of them. You've done some good research, my friend.

My only comment is not to spend a lot of money  on the first board as you won't be using it for long.
And hang out in this forum as much as possible, I've learnt an enormous amount from the people here.
Cheers!
Title: Re: Beginner Wing Foiling Gear for an old guy
Post by: WingNut Ohana on October 03, 2021, 02:29:04 PM
Props to you OP for leading the Wing Foiling charge in you area. The boards you are looking at are a bit too big. At 80kg you can start on something more in the 115l range especially if you have a 2000+ foil. Ií, 5í10Ē 88kg. Started on a Starboard 6í7Ē 115L, 2000 foil. Out grew that within months. Now on a 90L (5í4Ē) and 1550 foil, which is about right to not sink when the wind dips.

If you can rent a windsurf board with a dagger board (135L range), you can get going on learning wing control. Try to launch and return to the same spot. No need to worry about foil boards until you learn to come upwind. (There is also a product that allows you to add a daggerboard to a SUP.) Learning wing control is vital to the sport. All those lessons on the windsurf board will pay off when on the foil board. Itís much easier learning to sort yourself, all the gear and leashes out, when you try to get back up after a fall on a windsurf board with not sharp foil hiding under the water.

Good luck and remember to have fun!

P.s. 60 is not old! I got two guys, 72 and 74 in our crew that literally foil circles around me. At 52, Iím the youngest in the group. Most are 60+
Title: Re: Beginner Wing Foiling Gear for an old guy
Post by: surfcowboy on October 03, 2021, 08:21:02 PM
Solid foil choice.

I agree on the board if you SUP surf. Either go cheaper on your big board and loan it to friends to learn on or buy slightly smaller. Loaner gear if you have the cash will start the scene there Iíll bet.

You can likely buy a set of those strap on mid fins for your SUP to get you started with the wing unless youíre comfortable on your starter board.
Title: Re: Beginner Wing Foiling Gear for an old guy
Post by: BigZ on October 03, 2021, 10:34:55 PM
Basically you have two options:
- Buy a bigger board 25+ over your weight and accept that you are going to sell it (with a major loss unless you buy used in the first place) after about 5-10 sessions.
- Buy a board that is about 10l over your weight. Endure "pain and suffering" for about 5-10 sessions and than keep the board as a light wind weapon when you get your primary board ~your weight.

I learned on a board 7l over my weight and still use it when it is light or when doing downwinders without a boat support.
Title: Re: Beginner Wing Foiling Gear for an old guy
Post by: Dwight (DW) on October 04, 2021, 07:56:22 AM
There are two things, Iíd suggest thinking long and hard about before doing that.

1) The FG wing board. It locks you into that brand, and at a high cost. When at this point, you donít know what you will like in a foil a year from today.

2) The 2400 is too large for the stiffness of the Armstrong mast. It over powers the mast and makes you less stable. Feeling like a dogs tail wagging under the board. The 1850 is a better choice. Itís going to be more stable, and work better overall.

Title: Re: Beginner Wing Foiling Gear for an old guy
Post by: Caribsurf on October 04, 2021, 08:43:46 AM
I own 2 Fanatic foil boards   SKY SUP 115 ltr and the 95 ltr Sky Wing Foil board. Love them both. Good construction, good value  I also ride their Aero foils

Highly recommend

Title: Re: Beginner Wing Foiling Gear for an old guy
Post by: Oldmansurf on October 04, 2021, 03:37:42 PM
To everyone:
I am so grateful that people are responding to my very basic questions.  I had an electric foil session today and I am so pumped! The guy who took me out had some Naish foils from ?2020 at a good price.  Carbon foils and aluminum mast and fuselage.  One was in the 2400 range, and one in the 1800 range.  Any thoughts about these as starter foils?  He also had a Naish SUP foil 135 L board- sorry, I don't know the other dimensions.  Considering these as a cheap entry into the world of wing foiling.

I so appreciate the advice!
Title: Re: Beginner Wing Foiling Gear for an old guy
Post by: SUPguru on October 06, 2021, 09:12:21 AM
I'm in the same situation. 5'10, 80kg, got myself JP 7'2 foil board and F-One 5m Swing Wing and looking for a foil recommendation.


Title: Re: Beginner Wing Foiling Gear for an old guy
Post by: dns on October 06, 2021, 09:25:25 AM
The guy who took me out had some Naish foils from ?2020 at a good price.  Carbon foils and aluminum mast and fuselage.  One was in the 2400 range, and one in the 1800 range.  Any thoughts about these as starter foils?  He also had a Naish SUP foil 135 L board- sorry, I don't know the other dimensions.  Considering these as a cheap entry into the world of wing foiling.

FWIW nobody in my neck of the woods rides Naish foils. But, I would (and did) see what most people local to you are riding and go with that. Going cheap at the beginning and having to swap everything out later is false economy. Armstrong makes up probably half of the foils at my beach, and there is a robust trade in their foils on CL. When I was ready to go smaller it was super easy and cheap to grab a 1250 used.
Title: Re: Beginner Wing Foiling Gear for an old guy
Post by: DavidJohn on October 06, 2021, 11:18:43 AM
To everyone:
I am so grateful that people are responding to my very basic questions.  I had an electric foil session today and I am so pumped! The guy who took me out had some Naish foils from ?2020 at a good price.  Carbon foils and aluminum mast and fuselage.  One was in the 2400 range, and one in the 1800 range.  Any thoughts about these as starter foils?  He also had a Naish SUP foil 135 L board- sorry, I don't know the other dimensions.  Considering these as a cheap entry into the world of wing foiling.

I so appreciate the advice!

Iím a little older and heavier than you and here is a vid that I made when I first started and I was using the big Naish 2450 foil.. Itís an awesome learning foil and Iíve seen many friends progress using this foil.. I was using the 75cm mast and thatís also  a great place to start regarding mast length.. and my board was the 125L Naish Hover.. I would not recommend the Naish 1800 foil as a starting or learning foil but itís a great foil for down the track once you have learn to foil.. That Fanatic board that you mentioned would be a great board to start with in my opinion.. Iím also using the 5m Matador wing now and I love it.

https://vimeo.com/403636743
Title: Re: Beginner Wing Foiling Gear for an old guy
Post by: Pasquales on October 06, 2021, 04:22:33 PM
5 m2 wing should be ok to learn, 6 m2 is much easier.  But given you have a smaller wing, try and get a board that is 6.5 ft or less and most importantly not too heavy.  As far as foils, lots of good brands out there.  I'm an Armstrong guy and learned on a 2400 which was like training wheels.  Also know lots of people that learned on this foil. 

Whatever brand you get, and feel free to post a message and ask for a review.  Lot's of experience around here and good advice. 
Title: Re: Beginner Wing Foiling Gear for an old guy
Post by: Oldmansurf on October 07, 2021, 03:54:54 AM
Thanks again to all.  Was great to see that DavidJohn had learned on the Naish Foil that I am thinking about. It also looked like you could stand to start on the 125 Naish Hover- that looks ideal for me as a gimpy left knee makes it a little harder to go from kneeling to my feet quickly, although the pull of the wing helps.
 
I have heard from one person here, and one very reputable dealer that the 2450 might be too large for me.  Could someone explain what the problems would be with a foil that was too large?  I do have the option of a 1650 used 2021 Naish foil as well.  I am just trying to make things easy to start with and then move on if I progress.

Around here, it is rare to see a foil.  On a super windy day with many kiters out, I saw 3 other people out on Wings- it looked like they all had Armstrong foils.  Only kite foils seem to show up on CL currently.

No one I've found thinks they will get the Fanatic board in until sometime next year.  I could get the 6' Quatro Wing Drifter sooner (30" wide, 140L) but I found my Quatro Carve Pro SUP board at 8'8" 140 L to be a little corky and unstable when standing in chop.  I could also get the Naish S26 Hover Wing Carbon Ultra Foilboard at 6'6"140 that they said was more stable.

Thanks again to all- very eager to start!
Title: Re: Beginner Wing Foiling Gear for an old guy
Post by: Caribsurf on October 07, 2021, 05:15:34 AM
If you re looking for a Fanatic wing board check out Green Hat kiteboarding https://greenhatkiteboarding.com
I have bought a number of boards and wings through them including my Fanatic Sky wing board.
Title: Re: Beginner Wing Foiling Gear for an old guy
Post by: spindrift on October 07, 2021, 09:24:55 AM
There are a lot of variables besides one's weight and fitness. How often will you foil? What is the wind conditions where you live? Do you have physical limitations like bad knee? One or all of these may keep a person in the novice stage for a long time or maybe indefinitely. One of the frequent contributors on this site (that has a few years on the odometer) recommended a board that is relatively short, wide, and floats you with no wind. That seems to be very good advice and is relative to each rider's unique size and ability to balance. As for foil size. There seems to be a wide range of thoughts. Most lean towards a big foil being useful to learn, but abandoned later. Unless you live in a foiling hot spot, used equipment isn't an option. So the question I pose is the utility of a big foil (2400ish) later. Is having a really big foil useful on light wind days? BTW most days where I live would be considered light wind.
Title: Re: Beginner Wing Foiling Gear for an old guy
Post by: Oldmansurf on October 17, 2021, 03:24:39 PM
Ok- So I bought a used Naish Hover Board 125L- and the Naish 2450 Foil used.  Both seem like good choices- have uses both SUP foiling and winging,  but having a few issues.

The area where I am learning is a little shallower that I thought- I am catching my 75 mast on crab pot lines and the bottom at times. Wish I had a shorter mast option while learning before I hit the ocean.

Had a board leash snap today in 25-30 knot winds- was crazy windy for that area, and a longer leash replacement kept getting wrapped around the foil; and the stock Naish wing coiled wing leash is totally stretched out, and hard to "reel" in at times.

What are the best recommendations for a board leash and a wing leash?
Title: Re: Beginner Wing Foiling Gear for an old guy
Post by: PonoBill on October 17, 2021, 06:17:41 PM
When did 60 become old?

I prefer the reel leashes, I got mine from Blue Planet. Don't use their extension shock cord though unless you modify it. Unless they've changed it the ends are just ordinary nylon parachute-style cord dipped in some rubbery shit that prevents you from seeing that it's getting ready to come apart. I did a video on the thing and the way I attached it to my impact vest with an integrated waist belt.

I'm not sure how the reel will handle surf. In high wind the board pulls a short distance away from you, the reel has a soft retrieve so it doesn't come whipping back and it's long enough that the energy of a crash is all spent before the leash hits the end. The BLue Plant guys swear by them, and they're straight shooters who do this every day on Oahu. They do need to fix that crap extension cord though. I used my reel setup about every day this summer in Hood River. It performed magnificently.

https://youtu.be/WEI9H4ivZy4

For the wing leash I haven't found or made anything better than the leashes that come with F-One wings. Maybe you can buy them. I see people using thin coiled leashes all the time, that just flat-out sucks. Besides the constant tangles and the leash getting in your face, if a coiled leash breaks at the swivel on the wing it can easily take your eye out. Not because the coil is such a strong spring (it's not) but because the coil puts a twist into the urethane under tension that stores a lot of force and releases it quickly at an angle to the cord, so the leash can snap back along its length instead of collapsing axially. I know there are people that don't believe this--the reason their opinion isn't worth a popcorn fart is that they never tested it. If they had, they'd agree--end of story. In a test I did I buried a swivel in a piece of plywood.

the F-one leash is spectra line with shock cord inside. You could tow a truck with it, and it never snaps back--it collapses on itself like a straight urethane leash will. I test the shit out of stuff, I don't simply believe what anyone says, unless they have demonstrable expertise and are speaking about things within their area of expertise.

Do NOT attach your leash to the little leash attachment loop. Attach it to the front handle. When I've said this before people replied "kite manufacturers have been using that attachment for decades". Yes, they have, to attach the pump. That's all. Take a good hard look at that and see if it's something you should trust. If you rely on that, there is a good chance you'll rip it out of the leading edge. The good result of that is your wing blows away and maybe you get it back. The bad result is the bladder blows through the resulting tear and explodes, ripping the leading edge in half. Take your cherished wing to Airtime to repair it and they'll likely tell you it will cost you more to repair it than it's worth. Been there (for a slightly different reason but the same damage), done that, didn't want the T-shirt.
Title: Re: Beginner Wing Foiling Gear for an old guy
Post by: Dwight (DW) on October 18, 2021, 05:57:54 AM
The Ozone wing leash is a heavy duty version of the Fone with a swivel added. I like it better than the Fone because it doesnít get all twisted up.

But, all leashes still suck. Better get used to it. haha.
Title: Re: Beginner Wing Foiling Gear for an old guy
Post by: Oldmansurf on October 23, 2021, 02:59:23 PM
Thanks to PonoBill and Dwight for the advice- leashes on order!  Now need some wind again.
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