Standup Zone Forum
Stand Up Paddle => Gear Talk => Topic started by: sup-n-skirts on July 14, 2021, 03:23:27 PM
-
Hey y'all, as a fairly new SUP paddler (not new to paddling though, I have a bunch of years under my belt in seat #6 in an OC6...) I'm finding myself annoyed at my adjustable paddle that constantly wants to adjust its length through the course of a session (flat water or surf) so I'm starting to look at better, fixed length options. I've found around a 78" long paddle works for me, but I'll have to double check that. It also has like a 93^2 blade as well.
I'll be trying to hit up two local SF bay area places that do a lot of SUP type demos to see what they have, but I want to start narrowing down blade size size, shaft length, stiffness, etc, before I start demoing stuff...
We had a bunch of factors that went into the OC6 paddles, but it seems like SUP paddles are a lot more sensitive to individual factors than outrigger canoe paddles are. Ideally I'd like to get a high quality paddle that I can use for both surf and flat water stuff, but I do understand that I might have to pick one due to the general differences in length that tend to be "Optimal" for each discipline. I suspect I'll prob want to drop the blade size down from the 90's to the 80's, but I haven't had issues with this size so far.
About me: 5'11", 180lbs female, I have long legs and arms, but I don't really have a slender build, I'm more of a muscular, athletic build. Generally strength isn't an issue for me in activities like this, lol. I have a few decades of mountain biking and semi-pro racing so I've been fortunate to be able to keep a fair bit of strength even as I'm recovering from shoulder surgery 8mo ago, I had a SLAP repair, Bankart repair and like 6 anchors to repair it after re-injuring it following a MTB crash a few years ago, dislocating it. This then ended up manifesting itself as a super unstable shoulder that'd dislocate every week or so. Fun! So I started SUP to try to get the back/shoulder strength back a bit because honestly I'd rather do this than being stuck in a gym.
Anyways, hit me with some rec's for mfg's, blade styles etc. I've done a fair bit of research so far, and tried a few of the really high end black project paddles but those seem like they required a higher stroke cadence than I'm comfortable/able to do.
-
Well if I were you minimizing stress on my shoulder would be high on my priority list for paddles. SUP can mess up your shoulder as easily as strengthen it. That would imply a smaller blade and careful not to go too long in length, with some shaft flex. I don't think you can go too wrong with any of the high end paddles: ke nalu, black project, werner, quickblade etc. Black project table of size recs isn't a bad place to start. Surf and flat water paddles can be a bit different also so you might want to decide which is your priority.
-
Hey y'all, as a fairly new SUP paddler (not new to paddling though, I have a bunch of years under my belt in seat #6 in an OC6...) I'm finding myself annoyed at my adjustable paddle that constantly wants to adjust its length through the course of a session (flat water or surf) so I'm starting to look at better, fixed length options. I've found around a 78" long paddle works for me, but I'll have to double check that. It also has like a 93^2 blade as well.
I'll be trying to hit up two local SF bay area places that do a lot of SUP type demos to see what they have, but I want to start narrowing down blade size size, shaft length, stiffness, etc, before I start demoing stuff...
We had a bunch of factors that went into the OC6 paddles, but it seems like SUP paddles are a lot more sensitive to individual factors than outrigger canoe paddles are. Ideally I'd like to get a high quality paddle that I can use for both surf and flat water stuff, but I do understand that I might have to pick one due to the general differences in length that tend to be "Optimal" for each discipline. I suspect I'll prob want to drop the blade size down from the 90's to the 80's, but I haven't had issues with this size so far.
About me: 5'11", 180lbs female, I have long legs and arms, but I don't really have a slender build, I'm more of a muscular, athletic build. Generally strength isn't an issue for me in activities like this, lol. I have a few decades of mountain biking and semi-pro racing so I've been fortunate to be able to keep a fair bit of strength even as I'm recovering from shoulder surgery 8mo ago, I had a SLAP repair, Bankart repair and like 6 anchors to repair it after re-injuring it following a MTB crash a few years ago, dislocating it. This then ended up manifesting itself as a super unstable shoulder that'd dislocate every week or so. Fun! So I started SUP to try to get the back/shoulder strength back a bit because honestly I'd rather do this than being stuck in a gym.
Anyways, hit me with some rec's for mfg's, blade styles etc. I've done a fair bit of research so far, and tried a few of the really high end black project paddles but those seem like they required a higher stroke cadence than I'm comfortable/able to do.
Sup n skirt - check my post on another thread, similar discussion - https://www.standupzone.com/forum/index.php/topic,36744.0.html
Smaller blade will help with shoulder stress (trust - I used a big 95 sq in. blade and ended up getting active release therapy to get my shoulders back right). Go much shorter - 71 to 72" (head or 1" OH). Bend your knees, use your legs and core.
Also, check Werner Rip Stick - I have the thinner shaft which I believe is catered to women, but it helps to loosen my grip on it because a lot of the shoulder stress came from gripping the paddle too tightly.
PM if you have any questions.
-
I ended up going out for a super windy session yesterday afternoon and measured my paddle from the 'normal' height I've been keeping it at. 80" from the tip of the blade to the top of the handle, which as been working well for me so far, I've been finding that the blade size isn't great in the water on those windy days because it'll grab so much water when trying to drag myself through the wind.
I'm fairly hesitant to go down to 71" or 72" because when I've tried 75"/76" length it ended up making my lower back/hips/legs fairly cranky because of how far I had to bend down/forward to get the blade in the water and to not have the blade slip/gurgle. I'll prob try 77" here in a bit to see how that goes, but so far shoulder stuff hasn't been too much of a limiting factor for me, even in 2-3hr surf sessions or 10 mile flat water trips. I've only been doing this for like 2 months now so I'm sure I still have a long way to go as far as fitness and conditioning for SUP, but being in good shape already does help. I find my quads/glutes/core tend to give up on me long before my shoulders do, lol.
Regarding shaft diameter, I'll look at some of the smaller ones, but I suspect a standard size one will be the right call because I have long fingers and I already have a relaxed and controlled grip (yay for all those years spent in an outrigger canoe!). I will look into different shaft stiffness though because I can see that having a pretty significant impact in fatigue on long sessions or sessions where we paddle for a couple miles of ocean chop to get to a break.
Thanks for the replies, this starts to help narrow stuff down a bit.
-
I ended up going out for a super windy session yesterday afternoon and measured my paddle from the 'normal' height I've been keeping it at. 80" from the tip of the blade to the top of the handle, which as been working well for me so far, I've been finding that the blade size isn't great in the water on those windy days because it'll grab so much water when trying to drag myself through the wind.
I'm fairly hesitant to go down to 71" or 72" because when I've tried 75"/76" length it ended up making my lower back/hips/legs fairly cranky because of how far I had to bend down/forward to get the blade in the water and to not have the blade slip/gurgle. I'll prob try 77" here in a bit to see how that goes, but so far shoulder stuff hasn't been too much of a limiting factor for me, even in 2-3hr surf sessions or 10 mile flat water trips. I've only been doing this for like 2 months now so I'm sure I still have a long way to go as far as fitness and conditioning for SUP, but being in good shape already does help. I find my quads/glutes/core tend to give up on me long before my shoulders do, lol.
Regarding shaft diameter, I'll look at some of the smaller ones, but I suspect a standard size one will be the right call because I have long fingers and I already have a relaxed and controlled grip (yay for all those years spent in an outrigger canoe!). I will look into different shaft stiffness though because I can see that having a pretty significant impact in fatigue on long sessions or sessions where we paddle for a couple miles of ocean chop to get to a break.
Thanks for the replies, this starts to help narrow stuff down a bit.
Yeah, to help with the length, just think, bending your knees, not your back. Your knees should be pretty bent, so in actuality you at 5'11" is more like 5'5" or so.
-
Regarding bending your knees, I found the "founder" exercise from Foundation Training helpful:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4BOTvaRaDjI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4BOTvaRaDjI)
I had a bad BMX crash in middle school which left me unable to raise my arm over my shoulder (for about 6 months). Flash forward to a few years ago, I got wheel bite on a long-distance pumping skateboard. That led to one of the worst crashes I've had on a skateboard (I've had plenty). Basically, I reinjured my shoulder.
I found SUP very beneficial for my shoulder, as all of the muscle groups around my shoulder were strengthened, which helped stabilize my shoulder. But on the flip side, I found prone paddling very aggravating for my shoulder. My prone paddle technique was horrible. I ended up learning a lot from Rob Case, which is allowing me to prone paddle again:
https://www.youtube.com/user/XSWIMFIT
But back to SUP, I started off with homemade Polynesian-style paddles with no handle. I would put tape where my hand felt good. Eventually, I started putting a handle on my blade. But once I got into SUP surfing, I found that a shorter paddle was beneficial (for while on the wave, and in chop). On flat water, a longer blade is more relaxed. Whatever your priority, you may want to size the length of the shaft for that. Maybe you can wrap hockey or electrical tape on your adjustable paddle to prevent it from slipping. Generally, your flatwater paddle is a couple inches longer than your surf paddle.
I found that as my shaft got shorter, my shoulder felt better. But once you go too short, you start having lower back pain. My paddle is about 2" over my height (surf), which feels like a pretty good compromise for my aging back (from 12' to 7'4" boards).
I found Conner Baxter's description of the SUP stroke helpful:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q7PG-0PrPoQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q7PG-0PrPoQ)
With regards to the blade area, I would say that is a personal preference. I started off on big blades but found that my shoulder likes not so big a blade. With a smaller blade, you do have higher cadence, which helps for acceleration (catching waves) and stability.
Warming up your shoulder is always a good idea:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oz0AMgng9Fo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oz0AMgng9Fo)
This book is on my wish list:
https://www.amazon.com/Waterman-2-0-Optimized-Movement-Pain-Free/dp/0692171037/ (https://www.amazon.com/Waterman-2-0-Optimized-Movement-Pain-Free/dp/0692171037/)
Good luck with your search.
-
Blade size requirement is more a matter of technique than cadence or strength. A fully "caught" blade of any reasonable size will hardly move through the water. Stick your paddle in the water off the side of your board. Let it rest for a few seconds and try to pull it towards you.
If your paddle seems small it's because there's air trapped on the blade or you aren't getting the blade fully in the water, with the air bled off before you start to pull. That air lets the water flow around the blade. Without air to rush into, the water moves very slowly around the blade. You'll hear a lot of folks claim all kinds of anecdotal stuff, and real-life experience is important, but it's hard to beat pure geekery. I don't think many other folks built a water tunnel to test blades, or instrumented paddles with data recorders. The tagline for Ke Nalu paddles is "powered by physics". I supplied the physics.
I'm 220# and beefy. When I was paddling at my prime and with my best technique I was fastest using an 82 sq in blade. That's generally the recommended size for small women.
I have really crap shoulders--three surgeries on one side, two on the other, including a serious infection after surgery that required five more surgeries to clean out the dead tissue and take out all the anchors and stuff. Good technique made my shoulders much stronger and gave me better mobility. As a result, I have more than my fair share of SUP racing podium finishes in the geezer classes.
I'd recommend that you get a small blade and watch a lot of technique videos. Dave Kalama, Larry Cain, Johnny Puakea. Johnny teaches canoe paddling but his technique is similar to SUP--focused on catch, burying the paddle, and pushing down as much as you pull. You have OC experience, which helps, but OC paddling is frequently rushed because the boat speed is higher. It's tough to get a good catch in an OC1, never mind an OC6. And damned few steersmen have good paddle technique anyway. They're too busy keeping the boat pointed the right way to worry about catch.
People tend toward bigger blades for surf because they let their technique go to hell when something big and green is arching over their heads. Unfortunately, flailing with a mega-blade is not the solution to waves of consequence. I think surfing takes better technique than flatwater. Screw up a few strokes on the flats and it's no big deal. And with that better technique comes much smaller blades. Easier to control, lighter, quicker, and useless if your technique blows up.
-
Regarding bending your knees, I found the "founder" exercise from Foundation Training helpful:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4BOTvaRaDjI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4BOTvaRaDjI)
I had a bad BMX crash in middle school which left me unable to raise my arm over my shoulder (for about 6 months). Flash forward to a few years ago, I got wheel bite on a long-distance pumping skateboard. That led to one of the worst crashes I've had on a skateboard (I've had plenty). Basically, I reinjured my shoulder.
I found SUP very beneficial for my shoulder, as all of the muscle groups around my shoulder were strengthened, which helped stabilize my shoulder. But on the flip side, I found prone paddling very aggravating for my shoulder. My prone paddle technique was horrible. I ended up learning a lot from Rob Case, which is allowing me to prone paddle again:
https://www.youtube.com/user/XSWIMFIT
But back to SUP, I started off with homemade Polynesian-style paddles with no handle. I would put tape where my hand felt good. Eventually, I started putting a handle on my blade. But once I got into SUP surfing, I found that a shorter paddle was beneficial (for while on the wave, and in chop). On flat water, a longer blade is more relaxed. Whatever your priority, you may want to size the length of the shaft for that. Maybe you can wrap hockey or electrical tape on your adjustable paddle to prevent it from slipping. Generally, your flatwater paddle is a couple inches longer than your surf paddle.
I found that as my shaft got shorter, my shoulder felt better. But once you go too short, you start having lower back pain. My paddle is about 2" over my height (surf), which feels like a pretty good compromise for my aging back (from 12' to 7'4" boards).
I found Conner Baxter's description of the SUP stroke helpful:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q7PG-0PrPoQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q7PG-0PrPoQ)
With regards to the blade area, I would say that is a personal preference. I started off on big blades but found that my shoulder likes not so big a blade. With a smaller blade, you do have higher cadence, which helps for acceleration (catching waves) and stability.
Warming up your shoulder is always a good idea:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oz0AMgng9Fo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oz0AMgng9Fo)
This book is on my wish list:
https://www.amazon.com/Waterman-2-0-Optimized-Movement-Pain-Free/dp/0692171037/ (https://www.amazon.com/Waterman-2-0-Optimized-Movement-Pain-Free/dp/0692171037/)
Good luck with your search.
I'll check those out when i get home, thanks! With regards to paddle size, I'm def thinking that something in the mid 80^2 size is going to be a good place to start. Like you, I'm finding that SUP is awesome for helping out the shoulder stability and the stability of all the little muscles around the joint. Over all its been far lower impact and there has been quite a bit less shoulder crankiness with both flat water and surfing than I get right now from mountain biking.
Blade size requirement is more a matter of technique than cadence or strength. A fully "caught" blade of any reasonable size will hardly move through the water. Stick your paddle in the water off the side of your board. Let it rest for a few seconds and try to pull it towards you.
If your paddle seems small it's because there's air trapped on the blade or you aren't getting the blade fully in the water, with the air bled off before you start to pull. That air lets the water flow around the blade. Without air to rush into, the water moves very slowly around the blade. You'll hear a lot of folks claim all kinds of anecdotal stuff, and real-life experience is important, but it's hard to beat pure geekery. I don't think many other folks built a water tunnel to test blades, or instrumented paddles with data recorders. The tagline for Ke Nalu paddles is "powered by physics". I supplied the physics.
I'm 220# and beefy. When I was paddling at my prime and with my best technique I was fastest using an 82 sq in blade. That's generally the recommended size for small women.
I have really crap shoulders--three surgeries on one side, two on the other, including a serious infection after surgery that required five more surgeries to clean out the dead tissue and take out all the anchors and stuff. Good technique made my shoulders much stronger and gave me better mobility. As a result, I have more than my fair share of SUP racing podium finishes in the geezer classes.
I'd recommend that you get a small blade and watch a lot of technique videos. Dave Kalama, Larry Cain, Johnny Puakea. Johnny teaches canoe paddling but his technique is similar to SUP--focused on catch, burying the paddle, and pushing down as much as you pull. You have OC experience, which helps, but OC paddling is frequently rushed because the boat speed is higher. It's tough to get a good catch in an OC1, never mind an OC6. And damned few steersmen have good paddle technique anyway. They're too busy keeping the boat pointed the right way to worry about catch.
People tend toward bigger blades for surf because they let their technique go to hell when something big and green is arching over their heads. Unfortunately, flailing with a mega-blade is not the solution to waves of consequence. I think surfing takes better technique than flatwater. Screw up a few strokes on the flats and it's no big deal. And with that better technique comes much smaller blades. Easier to control, lighter, quicker, and useless if your technique blows up.
The 93 totally feels too big, there isn't a great line with it in the amount of effort used between cruising vs really cranking on it. I'd rather have a smaller paddle for moments when I have to really start putting some strength into it so then I can back off it a bit more. I'm sure getting a half decent paddle would drop the swing weight a ton down too, which would be a big help.
When I started into the second year of doing OC6 and as the steersman, our coach started really drilling into us that we had to be steering the boat, but we had to have perfect paddle stroke, so ALL of the steersmans ended up putting a lot of effort into building up that muscle memory and getting good paddle technique down, particularly the catch of the paddle so we could add as much power as we could while keeping the boat going the right way and keeping it right side up.
Yeah, to help with the length, just think, bending your knees, not your back. Your knees should be pretty bent, so in actuality you at 5'11" is more like 5'5" or so.
My quads are telling me after my sessions that I'm getting those knees bent, but I suppose the question would be if they're getting bent enough... I'll have to try to track down a gopro or something and see if I can start getting some footage of my paddle stroke n stuff. Generally my legs, core and glutes are my biggest limitations for longer trips through ocean chop to get to breaks or long flatwater days.
-
When I started into the second year of doing OC6 and as the steersman, our coach started really drilling into us that we had to be steering the boat, but we had to have perfect paddle stroke, so ALL of the steersmans ended up putting a lot of effort into building up that muscle memory and getting good paddle technique down, particularly the catch of the paddle so we could add as much power as we could while keeping the boat going the right way and keeping it right side up.
Sounds like you had a good coach, but there are some big physical difference in paddling an OC6 vs SUP, and no canoe paddler has a perfect stroke--or even close--unless they're Danny Ching or they grew up in Tahiti with a paddle in their hand. And even those folks had to make huge changes to be competitive. Everyone expected the best canoe paddlers in the world to blow away the field when they jumped to SUP for the better bucks. Even Danny Ching and Georges Cronsteadt didn't do much blowing away. Sups go about half as fast, using a long paddle, and except in all-out sprints, the cadence is much slower, and the optimal technique is radically different. If you're counting on your OC6 technique then you won't make a lot of progress past a basic level. You don't sound like the kind of person that would be satisfied with that.
-
When I started into the second year of doing OC6 and as the steersman, our coach started really drilling into us that we had to be steering the boat, but we had to have perfect paddle stroke, so ALL of the steersmans ended up putting a lot of effort into building up that muscle memory and getting good paddle technique down, particularly the catch of the paddle so we could add as much power as we could while keeping the boat going the right way and keeping it right side up.
Sounds like you had a good coach, but there are some big physical difference in paddling an OC6 vs SUP, and no canoe paddler has a perfect stroke--or even close--unless they're Danny Ching or they grew up in Tahiti with a paddle in their hand. And even those folks had to make huge changes to be competitive. Everyone expected the best canoe paddlers in the world to blow away the field when they jumped to SUP for the better bucks. Even Danny Ching and Georges Cronsteadt didn't do much blowing away. Sups go about half as fast, using a long paddle, and except in all-out sprints, the cadence is much slower, and the optimal technique is radically different. If you're counting on your OC6 technique then you won't make a lot of progress past a basic level. You don't sound like the kind of person that would be satisfied with that.
I am finding this to be very much the case, lol. I'm already trying to keep myself from getting hyper competitive and to just enjoy the stoke from from a quick workout on flat water before work or a dawn surf (and lots of swimming) session. I have a lot to learn with this sport still! I'll be diving into the technique side of SUP paddling a lot here to get some good habits in place.
I'm just glad I have a consistent catch, release and feather of the blade, lol.
We have one regular in our regular morning sessions who does a lot of flatwater racing and other stuff and I've been learning a ton just from watching and talking to him.
-
I have a new paddle that really changed my thinking on paddle size and stiffness.
I weigh 235 lbs, 5'10 with a big strong chest... I surf and paddle flat with the same paddles.
My new paddle blade is 6.5" wide with a VERY thin, very stiff shaft.
Thinnest shaft I have ever seen, so stiff was necessary for strength.
I thought I would hate the stiffness of the shaft, but the narrow blade takes away any shoulder or back strain and I never even notice the stiffness.
My hat cam shows me that it is MUCH quieter, very smooth through the water, and my cadence has increased noticeably.
I catch waves with less effort and surfing with it is awesome.
The handle is a perfect fit for thumb control of my blade when surfing
I flat-water as much as I surf, and the shorter surf paddle doesn't hinder me because my flat-water boards are all long surf shapes, with low rails, not tall raceboards.
Plus the narrow blade means I rarely bang my rails anymore.
All in all... I highly recommend a small, narrow blade.
-
So, as a bit of an experiment, I lowered the paddle length down to about 76.5 inches for my morning session. It was a super choppy, windy morning out here on the SF bay so I didn't have any expectations of speed differences, or anything like that, I just wanted to see how the shorter length felt.
Average speed for 4 miles was around 3.9 mph, even with the super nasty headwinds. The overall effort felt a bit higher, but that most likely is the wind.
I had to get quite a bit lower in my stance to get the blade fully buried (knees bent almost 90deg and the lower back muscles were working harder. I suspect I'm trying to reach too far forward which is causing me to use more of the lower back.
I tried a little bit quicker cadence and not reaching quite as far forward for the last two miles, plus some additional core bracing and that seemed to help quite a bit. My quads were toast after this mornings session fwiw, lol.
My one board so far is a 10'5"x32"x4.5 surf style board with low rails, so I'm not expecting to be as fast as the flat water boards with displacement hulls, but I'll keep working on the paddle stroke and getting the strength and stamina up. I'll be keeping the length around the 76"/77" to try to get more used to the shorter paddle.
-
You might think about blade shape too.
My personal preference is a mid 80 square inch blade. If high aspect like a Werner, it results in a cadence that I like. Not wearing me out at all, but not a stir stick either. I also have a tear-drop low 80s that I like.
But I use a Werner Rip Stick for surf, and it has a very shaped, very grabby blade, good for digging in. So I found I had to go smaller. I started with an 89", but it felt too big and exhausting when cranking. So instead of working on my fitness level, I went to the same paddle in 79" blade, and it works great.
So you might like certain blades over others. Quickblade v drives are another that you can go smaller on. I hope you're able to try a variety.
-
You might think about blade shape too.
My personal preference is a mid 80 square inch blade. If high aspect like a Werner, it results in a cadence that I like. Not wearing me out at all, but not a stir stick either. I also have a tear-drop low 80s that I like.
But I use a Werner Rip Stick for surf, and it has a very shaped, very grabby blade, good for digging in. So I found I had to go smaller. I started with an 89", but it felt too big and exhausting when cranking. So instead of working on my fitness level, I went to the same paddle in 79" blade, and it works great.
So you might like certain blades over others. Quickblade v drives are another that you can go smaller on. I hope you're able to try a variety.
Yeah, I'm going to be trying a few different blades hopefully. I've always been partial to a more teardrop shaped blade for other paddling things but I have NO idea how that translates to SUP.
On the topic of stroke and technique, I did 9 miles yesterday just cruising and working on my form and trying to be consistent, as well as trying to not reach too far forward with the shorter length, then did 3.5 this morning as a recovery. My legs are still dead and my abs are pretty sore and the lower back is doing great so trying to not reach super far forward is paying off it feels like.
One thing I've been noticing with the shorter length is that I tend to use my upper body a lot more in the power phase of the stroke, so there is a whole new set of muscles that are getting using more now.
Trying to learn a good stroke and build those habits up is a challenge, but it'll pay off in the long term at least.
-
Yeah, I'm going to be trying a few different blades hopefully. I've always been partial to a more teardrop shaped blade for other paddling things but I have NO idea how that translates to SUP.
On the topic of stroke and technique, I did 9 miles yesterday just cruising and working on my form and trying to be consistent, as well as trying to not reach too far forward with the shorter length, then did 3.5 this morning as a recovery. My legs are still dead and my abs are pretty sore and the lower back is doing great so trying to not reach super far forward is paying off it feels like.
One thing I've been noticing with the shorter length is that I tend to use my upper body a lot more in the power phase of the stroke, so there is a whole new set of muscles that are getting using more now.
Trying to learn a good stroke and build those habits up is a challenge, but it'll pay off in the long term at least.
If your abs are sore you must be doing something right. Trying different blades could be very beneficial. For long distance, high aspect blades made a big difference for me.
The more balanced load distribution was a good match to my paddling style and made a big difference in recovery times. Worth playing with imo.
-
Yeah, I'm going to be trying a few different blades hopefully. I've always been partial to a more teardrop shaped blade for other paddling things but I have NO idea how that translates to SUP.
On the topic of stroke and technique, I did 9 miles yesterday just cruising and working on my form and trying to be consistent, as well as trying to not reach too far forward with the shorter length, then did 3.5 this morning as a recovery. My legs are still dead and my abs are pretty sore and the lower back is doing great so trying to not reach super far forward is paying off it feels like.
One thing I've been noticing with the shorter length is that I tend to use my upper body a lot more in the power phase of the stroke, so there is a whole new set of muscles that are getting using more now.
Trying to learn a good stroke and build those habits up is a challenge, but it'll pay off in the long term at least.
If your abs are sore you must be doing something right. Trying different blades could be very beneficial. For long distance, high aspect blades made a big difference for me.
The more balanced load distribution was a good match to my paddling style and made a big difference in recovery times. Worth playing with imo.
Yeah, one place here here, 101 surf sports, is right on the SF bay so they recommend that you bring your board up to try paddles as you can just launch from their place. Needless to say I'll be trying a bunch.
In stroke and form news, I feel like I'm making more progress in staying constant with my form while paddling and getting better stabilizing the upper body. I'm also moving to using my arms/shoulders a little more to directly push/pull the blade "down" and that combined with keeping my core/hip bend more constant is helping the core. I'm sure I have many hundreds and thousands of miles to go before I really start to "get it" for my paddle form and stroke, but I'm getting there.
Also went surfing this morning. I still can't surf worth a damn, but damn if it isn't fun.
-
Well I guess this thread is slowly turning into my personal progression for power, strength and paddle stroke... I managed to get a 4.1mph average for my workout today, which is something. I'm happy about it, but honestly, its still on the slower side of things and I can't keep that pace up for more than about 4 miles. But its a sign of progression so thats awesome. I'm still on a wide (32") surf shape board with really low rails, so I'm not expecting speed really, but its nice to start getting that pace up a big.
But back to paddles, I tried a few out over the weekend and the two I liked the most were a Quickblade U-V drive 88 (or whatever) and a 89 Werner Rip Stick. I didn't really like any of paddles that were smaller than the mid 80's or into the 70's. Those smaller ones just felt like I was splashing and wasn't making any power in relation to how much the rest of me had to move to get the paddle into the water. They also didn't feel effective to use in bracing either.
This weekend I'm going try some Black Project paddles to see how those feel, but I suspect i'll go with either the Quickblade or the Werner...
-
Welp, picked up a new paddle over the weekend. Tried a bunch of quickblade paddles, and settled on this one... the one I REALLY like was a bit out of my budget at 500$... but even this Kanaha is such a HUGE step up from up old paddle that my board doesn't even really feel the same. It's awesome.
-
That's a great paddle. I have a few QuickBlade's and they last for years. My oldest one is about 11 years old and still looks new. The 90 will give you all the power you'll ever need.
-
That's a great paddle. I have a few QuickBlade's and they last for years. My oldest one is about 11 years old and still looks new. The 90 will give you all the power you'll ever need.
Totally, I'm still getting used to the slightly narrower point-of-entry for a good clean catch, but its getting there. I'm really excited about this thing, haha. I opted to take the plunge and get it cut at 77" inches vs the 78" my other one was at and I think that was the right call.
-
The length between a surf paddle and distance paddle can vary a lot, but everyone likes theirs a different length. The size (thickness and length) of your board plays a big part. With longer race boards men tend to muscle the paddle and take longer/ slower paddle strokes which works better with a longer paddle. Women tend to use less muscle with a higher/ quicker cadence which works better with a shorter paddle. When I'm surfing I use a higher cadence stroke with a short paddle. I like to switch the paddle from side to side quickly when I'm surfing so a short paddle works best. But if I try to paddle distance with my short paddle on one of my race boards I'll feel it immediately in my lower back. Not good. I'm tall, almost 6'7. My race paddle for my 14' and 18' boards is 91". On my 11'6 all-arounder board I have a mid length 86" paddle. My surfing paddle is about 79". I tried to surf with a shorter one, but it hurt my back.
So I let my back pain be the determining factor in finalizing the lengths. Shoulder pain comes from too stiff of a paddle. My long distance paddle has a lot of flex.
-
Congrats and great choice, AND awesome that you had the chance to try a variety.
-
The kanaha blade was one of the first Quickblade paddle designs, and my first serious paddle many moons ago. Good blade.
-
Congrats! Solid paddle, Timeless design 8)
-
For both my flat water & surf paddles I put a few wraps of electrical tape on the shaft where I want my lower hand to be.
Makes it easy to be certain I'm holding paddle the same on both sides. You don't have to look (or guess), can easily just feel it.
Super easy to peel off and move if you are trying to find the right position for you.
-
For both my flat water & surf paddles I put a few wraps of electrical tape on the shaft where I want my lower hand to be.
Makes it easy to be certain I'm holding paddle the same on both sides. You don't have to look (or guess), can easily just feel it.
Super easy to peel off and move if you are trying to find the right position for you.
I've never been a big fan of marking paddle shafts, then again I've never had issues keeping my paddle form consistent from side to side, so I consider myself to be fairly fortunate in that regard. The right spot just feels right, ya know?
-
I don't generally post, mostly lurk around, but had to condone this idea of the smaller paddle for surfing. I finally did it after generally adapting to a 105 square inch Danny Ching Scout that was a gift, but my shoulders ache if I surf too much. I finally cut down a cheap paddle until it felt good, estimated it to be 89 square inches. Bought an Abahub carbon shaft / plastic blade in the same shape and size (but with a trihedral), advertised as 91 square inches. It works great. Though a little bit heavier than the Danny Ching I generally don't notice it over a one hour surf session. My cadence is more rapid, I feel like I am maneuvering better both while catching and while surfing, and it was only $52.00. I'll probably upgrade it to something lighter, in awhile, and maybe go even smaller.
-
Argee I don't know how much of a trihedral your paddle has, but I found the grabbiness of the blade is a huge factor. I originally got a Werner RipStick at 89 sq inch, thinking that would be plenty small, but its shaped so much that I changed to the 79 sq inch version, and it has been perfect.
BTW ..."old" Ventura surfer at 49? Ouch dude... : )
-
I'm a male with a small skeletal bone structure. More akin to a female in bone size.
I've just turned 73 years old and I'm 5'8" in height. My weight bounces between 140 pounds in the summertime to 145 pounds in the wintertime.
I'm right now at 145 pounds since I'm sedentary right now because I'm recovering from spinal surgery on my right lower back. (My spinal surgeon told me I'll be good to go for anything I want to do on Mar 16th.)
With my bone structure and weight, I'm not a fan of the "men's" regular diameter paddle shaft. With my small hands, I gravitated towards a "woman's" smaller diameter paddle shaft.
With the above said, I have two sup paddles. They are both designed for a woman. The paddles are a two piece Naish Alana adjustable paddle with a 75 square inch paddle blade.
Since both my right and left shoulder joints have been surgically repaired, the Alana 75 paddle works great for me whether I'm surfing one of my sups or flat water paddling one of my sups.
-
Yes, Dusk Patrol, the fairly small trihedral probably makes it grab a bit more, plus the tip is a little bit curved, which I think helps as well. I imagine that the higher-end blades have even more improved grab as well. For me, only SUP surfing once or twice a month for an hour, the Abahub is a good solution. My main point was that the smaller blade improves cadence and maneuverability, plus now my shoulders don't hurt.
I have been surfing for 49 years, started when I was 14. Women open doors for me, so yeah, I'm old.