Standup Zone Forum
The Foil Zone => Wingsurfing, Windfoiling, Wingfoiling, Wing SUP => Topic started by: Pasquales on July 10, 2021, 07:05:27 AM
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https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fyz6pU2MuDc
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We have a 75l and 88l arriving next week. May be the first ones at the Gorge
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Good to know Phil's. Lemme know how they ride, I'm strongly considering getting the both of those sizes as well. I weigh 90 kgs, so going back and forth.
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I’m famous! Check out my cameo in the review riding the BRM.
I threatened not to give back the demo unless it was a trade for a new board so I was able to get a board early release. Sharing some footage for the review helped I think.
Weight wise it’s 10.1 lbs compared to my 74L FSM at 10.8 lbs, so pretty light! -5 liter/kgs and it feels great.
If I had unlimited time and resources, I don’t think I could have come up with a better shape.
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Innovative forward geometry AND carbon stringers for $2000??!! Seems like putting lipstick on a pig 🐷 to me.
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I’m famous! Check out my cameo in the review riding the BRM.
I threatened not to give back the demo unless it was a trade for a new board so I was able to get a board early release. Sharing some footage for the review helped I think.
Weight wise it’s 10.1 lbs compared to my 74L FSM at 10.8 lbs, so pretty light! -5 liter/kgs and it feels great.
If I had unlimited time and resources, I don’t think I could have come up with a better shape.
Nice clip of you Graham. We seem to like similar stuff like the 1125 and BRM wings and I suspect this will also be true for the new boards. Reported weights for the 75 L and 88 L are 5.2 and 5.8 kg, respectively.
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I got a 5'11" last week-only have two hours on it but am impressed with everything I have seen in light wing conditions thus far. Suping this will be a challenge given my size I really like this board. Sadly have to put it away for a few weeks given my schedule but look forward to getting back on it in August.
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Just pulled the trigger on a 5'2" 75 Liter. It's completely different from v.1, really like how concepts from One and Quatro were integrated.
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Link to the SUP/wing boards: https://www.armstrongfoils.com/wing-sup-boards/
Link to the wing/surf boards: https://www.armstrongfoils.com/wing-surf-boards/
I am fighting the urge!
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Have had three sessions on the 88. At a weight of 75kg, with almost a full wind season on the wing, was tempted to get the 75 but wing exclusively in SFBay/Golden Gate (Crissy) and decades of windsurfing there and limping back from the Bridge on my 80 liter Logosz Twintip windsurf board told me it may be more comfortable and safer to get the 88.
I am presently visiting a friend at the Gorge and was lucky enough to make this purchase. Board build is everything reviews have said. All sessions have been using the Armstrong 1250/232/0/60 fuse/85 mast/old setup (not the A+) at the Rowena/Dougs corridor late afternoon/early evening on a 4 meter Slingwing which is my smallest hand wing. All sessions have been in blasting wind with monster gusts that can abruptly switch directions and decent size swell as you get towards the Washington side of the River.
The board has been a blast. Like heaven once you get balanced on foil. Getting on foil has taken a little getting use to. Body position must be much more forward than for other boards with ALOT of weight on front foot. And this is with the foil all the way back on the track! I am wondering if I will be able to use any front wing bigger than the 1250 on this board. Not complaining, just wondering if I should sell my other wing, an 1850, which I rarely use anyway. Also wondering if this board could make the HA 1125 much less challenging getting up on foil, as some have indicated. Don't own that foil wing yet so no way to test and comment.
Bottom line, very happy with the purchase for the area I plan to use it.
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The new FG Armstrong boards look amazing …do you feel there is more stability in a given volume when compared to a more standard shape? IOW does the shape contribute to added stability and the possibility of riding a lower volume board ?
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Hard to comment on that Esteban. Didn't find this any more stable than my previous board of close to the same volume. Also, have been in pretty high wind at the Gorge where you could probably put a hydrofoil on a door and it would be stable. But if I lived at the Gorge I would be real comfortable getting the next size down.
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Getting on foil has taken a little getting use to. Body position must be much more forward than for other boards with ALOT of weight on front foot. And this is with the foil all the way back on the track!
When I was developing my straight tail design, I immediately struggled with getting enough front foot pressure to control the wheelies on lift off. I really had to retrain myself to just chill a bit and let the board come up gently. The board just accelerates so much quicker than older shapes, it powers up your foil MEGA. I actually had to move my tracks back 2 full inches to tame the beast. It’s a good problem to have.
Throwing that out there in case it’s the same for you.
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The new FG Armstrong boards look amazing …do you feel there is more stability in a given volume when compared to a more standard shape? IOW does the shape contribute to added stability and the possibility of riding a lower volume board ?
From my experience, no, there is not more stability. I went from a 95L Naish S26 5'7" to the 88L FG 5'5". I am 80 KG when I wake up, with gear probably 85/86. It may be the extra 7L, but the Naish 95L is easier to stand on, turn with my feet, and balance in low wind. In strong wind and chop I am managing well on the 88L but don't have the comfort/stability I had with the Naish. If I stand a little too forward, the front of the board can sink into the water.
I only have five sessions on the 88L FG board. It is significantly lighter. I am still trying to figure the board out. Mast position matters. I am winging with the 1550v1 foil and 300 tail with the 70 fuselage and 85 cm mast—the more forward the mast, indeed, the more lift. I am still trying to get the position dialed. The board design encourages a shorter stance, which I think is good, but I am also getting used to it.
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The new FG Armstrong boards look amazing …do you feel there is more stability in a given volume when compared to a more standard shape? IOW does the shape contribute to added stability and the possibility of riding a lower volume board ?
From my experience, no, there is not more stability. I went from a 95L Naish S26 5'7" to the 88L FG 5'5". I am 80 KG when I wake up, with gear probably 85/86. It may be the extra 7L, but the Naish 95L is easier to stand on, turn with my feet, and balance in low wind. In strong wind and chop I am managing well on the 88L but don't have the comfort/stability I had with the Naish. If I stand a little too forward, the front of the board can sink into the water.
I only have five sessions on the 88L FG board. It is significantly lighter. I am still trying to figure the board out. Mast position matters. I am winging with the 1550v1 foil and 300 tail with the 70 fuselage and 85 cm mast—the more forward the mast, indeed, the more lift. I am still trying to get the position dialed. The board design encourages a shorter stance, which I think is good, but I am also getting used to it.
Which shim are you running? Going with a +1 may help with the forward mast positioning. The 70 fuse makes a more aft position more comfortable I think, so the plus 1 shim may help compensate. Try a 60 fuse if you can…will really loosen up your gybes.
I’m riding at a 5 mast position lately on the HA1125. I bet I would be at a 3 with your setup.
I’m at a -5L ratio and the nose can definitely go under if not careful. Oddly enough I always recover easily when that happens, without foot straps too.
I got in the pool with my demo without a foil immediately to check the buoyancy and man it was tippy could barely sit on it haha.
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Ran the 1050 wing today for the first time on the 60L FG. Tried it first at the 5 setting I’d been running the 1125 and immediately turned back to adjust back and nailed a crab pot on a blind gybe. Ended up trying a 2 setting and it felt great. Running the A+ 60 fuse with FV200 and .5 degree shim. Wind was 10-20mph.
Strapped up and got some rad dad credit card airs. The offset to the rail rear strap setting makes it comfy for straps. Finally!
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Any pictures of your strap setup, VB_?
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(https://i.ibb.co/mNQKPpC/E7106-EA0-E5-DD-4-B78-9-AAD-F63-B1-EF14-B74.jpg) (https://ibb.co/mNQKPpC) (https://i.ibb.co/drHS2j0/1-EDDF1-F9-E40-A-4228-9-C86-0-BFD82-A9-DF99.jpg) (https://ibb.co/drHS2j0)
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Update after 5 session on my 75L board. The shape works well with my HA foil and I am very pleased overall. Finally a board on which I can stand as far forward as I want. Really helps with hard carving and pumping. Only minor negative is the handle. There is no "ledge" to grip.
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thank you for the picture VB_. Reason I asked is that I need to stand farther forward than the windsurf pattern footstraps allow (for the moment). This is helpful.
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thank you for the picture VB_. Reason I asked is that I need to stand farther forward than the windsurf pattern footstraps allow (for the moment). This is helpful.
Which tail shim are you running? I think the more degrees you add, the more your stance will be able to shift back.
You might notice in my photo that I have the widest setting possible running with straps, which allows and inch or so of movement for each foot. When I would go for an air, I'd jam my back foot against the back strap and front foot against the front of the front strap. Worked great! Was able to land some maybe 2' foil out of the water airs and stay on foil on the landing. Definitely will be getting in the air more, pretty addicting feeling.
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Here’s a little edit from today’s session on the 60L. Tide was ebbing with the wind so wasn’t ideal and didn’t stay out long. Wanted to ride swells but ground was lost in an instant and apparent wind would disappear to nothing.
A few jump attempts on the 100cm mast and 1125 wing was fun! The long mast allows so much time to correct a breach. Watch the last air you’ll see what I mean. I think I needed to go to 1.5 degrees and move the mast forward a cm or two with that combo.
https://www.instagram.com/p/CSAHlSIA0si/?utm_medium=share_sheet (https://www.instagram.com/p/CSAHlSIA0si/?utm_medium=share_sheet)
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cool video. fun to watch
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I noticed the boards include PVC Reinforcements and covered with carbon fiber and Dyneema cloth.
Anyone aware of dyneema cloth being used in other board layups? Sounds like a lighter/stronger replacement for the typical fiberglass cloth used as a top sheet in a layup. Pretty rad! Dwight have any experience?
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I noticed the boards include PVC Reinforcements and covered with carbon fiber and Dyneema cloth.
Anyone aware of dyneema cloth being used in other board layups? Sounds like a lighter/stronger replacement for the typical fiberglass cloth used as a top sheet in a layup. Pretty rad! Dwight have any experience?
I’m aware of it, but have never seen it used in surfboards. It’s another fabric that is a nightmare to laminate, like Innegra is, so you won’t see many, if any, ever use it.
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I tried .5 oz Dyneema fabric once back when it was called Cuban for a DSR (racecar) A-arm. What a total mess I made. If I were doing a vacuum-bagged board with no intention to sand anything near the Dyneema and no intention to ever repair then maybe I'd try it again, but I don't need giant hairballs that are nearly impossible to cut screwing up my life.
Actually, now that I think about it, it was for a body repair on the same car. I screwed up the A-arm all by myself. I can't believe I forgot that--what a disaster. Trying to save a few ounces and I had to cut out a substantial chunk of the body to get rid of it. Ridiculously expensive too--about 100 bucks a yard, takes special micro-serrated scissors or a laser to cut it.
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First session on the 75 L FG today. Wind 10-12 knots but only had one hour to test. Paired it with the 1850 (board setting #5), 72 mast, 232 tail +1.
At 90 kgs, this board is definitely a sinker . Took several tries figuring out how to balance underwater, then quickly getting the wing overhead and building speed. It wasn’t too bad to be honest, before I knew it I was standing on the board taxiing for takeoff. To help with pumping, one front strap was installed. This helped big time. Just needed a couple of pumps to break the surface. I was surprised by the ease of lift, as normally I’d have to pump much harder on my 105 L Quatro.
What really stood out was the handling. On a couple of rides, I pushed the foil fast and high, trying to ventilate. As soon as the gurgle sound started, it was easy to correct to get the foil back down. Turning also feels different. The board seemed easier to lean over and go further upwind. On gibes the lower swing weight definitely makes a huge difference, making for a much tighter arc.
The bad part. The smaller board exposed some weakness. Much harder to get standing goofy foot. Part of this was due to weak wind and not having much tension in the wing to help on the pull up. But another factor was the grip pad stops 6 inches from the board edge. For taller guys especially when getting up from a kneel, a longer grip pad helps. I tend to put pressure on the top of my back foot. This helps in balancing when bringing the front foot forward. On a few attempts, my back foot slid around causing unnecessary falls. Hopefully with more practice and more wind, this awkward feeling will go away.
Overall, I’m impressed with how loose the board feels in turns and by the initial lift.
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That’s some light wind Pasquales! At -15L, you are definitely going to want some tension in the wing for balance. Interesting what you said about difficulty riding switch stance (schlogging), as I still need to dedicate some learning to that and I’ve just sold my 105L (doh!)
I’ll clone post from my seabreeze post here as well ;)
Caught a fun downwind/shore runner session today on the 60L paired with the 1125, 85 mast, fv200 with 1.5 degree shims (so +.5) at a mast setting of 5.5. Wind was 14-18knts and ran a 5M wing. First ocean session on the board and it went insane. The bumpier conditions required dedicated concentration to get up and moving, but all in all pretty straightforward. Mostly got going on my toeside, which is tricky
Half mile out the thermals were pairing up nicely with the small underlying swell and I definitely got my longest downwind glides without using the wing. Power dinging into swells and at swells before cranking cutbacks as hard as I dared.mind blown! Finally getting the feel for cranking the board the opposite direction of inertia, flowing into and through turns, rather than riding on top of the board and letting the turns happen. Hard to do at a lightweight 65kgs. Getting your COG over the down hill rail after a wrapping cutback to bank back the other direction feels amazing. The board and 1125 definitely helping!
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Any 90+ kg riders on here SUP foiling these boards yet? I currently ride a Sunova Aviator (6.4, 115L) which has been great for my progression but now feels giant for winging and OK for SUP foiling, but the aft box position is not ideal for Armstrong foils, making pumping a chore. Strap position is too far forward on this board for SUPfoiling as well relative to the foil. Time to move on. Wondering if I can get away with the 99L Armstrong FG or am I better off keeping to the 115L version since I paddle in chop and current often? Are these boards pretty stable for their size? How do they paddle?
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VB_Foil - Yep lite winds are the norm in SoCal so I'm open to any tips to get low volume boards moving. It was a real eye opener standing up, then realizing you're standing on a submerged board. Just a different mental calculation trying to get the water drained quickly and start moving.
Winddoctor - I'm definitely not one to ask about SUP foiling. I'd suggest listening to James Casey's comments on SUP. He's a heavier guy (relative to most surfers which isn't saying much). His advice - do not to go too low in volume and board size around 6'0" were best. Of course he rides for SUNOVA and helped develop their SUP line so keep that in mind.
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Windoctor,
I am looking at the 6'4 for straight sup foil surfing. I am at 85 kg, but I want a little extra size because of where I will be using it. Several places are a pretty good ways offshore and to handle the chop also on crappy days. I understand a smaller board will be better once flying but I want some stability when chasing crap waves way out. In all honestly, I wish they would make one size up even, around 6'10 to 7'0. Beasho had mentioned this about where he foils at Mavericks, having a longer board for the board speed catching larger waves that are moving faster. It seems just like the path that SUP surfing has taken. Race to smaller boards that for performance took out a little of the fun factor. People, including myself, have boards they only wanted to deal with on glassy days. I am fine with a slightly bigger ride. Just waiting to hear some feedback on them. New FG system sounds good. But they dont even arrive until Sept so it might be a minute or 2.
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I think the 115 probably makes the most sense then. Cheers. A 105L X 28 x 5.11 would be nice...
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i now have a solid 9 days on the Armstrong 5'11". I think it is an awesome board-only rode a few days when learning on other boards but a friend who has lots of experience rode it and loved it. I do wish for winging I sized down one more size than I got but I will try and sup foil it later. I think there is something to the bottom shape as touchdowns seem really easy to rebound off the chop and stay on foil. construction is really good and the handle through the whole board is well thought out and deck pad is grippy without being abrasive.
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Great info. A few questions. Does anyone have experience with the F-one Rocket as well? How would you compare the 2 boards?
Secondly, has anyone used Axis foils with this new Armstrong board? It seems that this board may be specifically made for Armstrong foils and may not work so well with other foils such as Axis.
And lastly, for those in the 95-100 kg weight range and wing foiling in light wind (inland lake conditions). Comparing the 115L to the 132L board, is there that much of an advantage with the bigger volume and longer boards? Or can a 15+L board be just as effective getting up on foil as the 30-40L+ boards?
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It seems that this board may be specifically made for Armstrong foils and may not work so well with other foils such as Axis.
Correct….not ideal for Axis.
I think the new Sky Wing boards will be announced real soon. Maybe wait on news of those. They will be a better fit.
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I am running Axis foils on my Armstrong Board...Again, I am a newbie but everything seems to be working great for me at this stage. Using a 1060 and 860 front with a 440 rear shimmed.
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...Secondly, has anyone used Axis foils with this new Armstrong board? It seems that this board may be specifically made for Armstrong foils and may not work so well with other foils such as Axis...
The tracks are so long in the new FG boards I don't know why you couldn't find the sweet spot for Axis or any other foil.
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I've been winging just over one year, and have been downsizing boards. The Fone Rocket V2 (120L) was my first, then Quatro (105L), and now Armstrong (75L). Taking volume out of the equation, I'd recommend the Rocket. It's a good all around board, and works well in lite winds. The other boards are good, but are more tapered. These shapes are good for advanced riders, but are less stable. Always used Armstrong 2400, then 1850 or 1250 depending on wind speeds. For your size, 120 L should suffice for Fone boards. The stability increase for a larger volume is incremental, so not worth going bigger IMHO.
Great info. A few questions. Does anyone have experience with the F-one Rocket as well? How would you compare the 2 boards?
Secondly, has anyone used Axis foils with this new Armstrong board? It seems that this board may be specifically made for Armstrong foils and may not work so well with other foils such as Axis.
And lastly, for those in the 95-100 kg weight range and wing foiling in light wind (inland lake conditions). Comparing the 115L to the 132L board, is there that much of an advantage with the bigger volume and longer boards? Or can a 15+L board be just as effective getting up on foil as the 30-40L+ boards?