Standup Zone Forum

General => General Discussion => Topic started by: Noo Noo on July 05, 2021, 04:03:11 AM

Title: Does such a board exist?
Post by: Noo Noo on July 05, 2021, 04:03:11 AM
Daft question. I still consider myself a beginner SUP Surfer thanks to a b*****d job and COVID basically limiting journeys to the beach. Anyhow, I'm making a concerted effort to get out this summer and develop those skills. My current board is a 11'6" Hypr Hawaii Gun. Great board but weighs a ton and has an awful carry handle.

My sessions basically comprise of getting up early going to my local beach about 20 minutes away and trying my luck. The surf there is poor, really poor. It is not a recognised surf spot, great kite surfing spot but no real waves and any wind blows it out into a chop suey soup. Yesterday, sub 10kn cross on breeze was enough to make a mess of the 2-3' swell that was present.

Anyway, as I slowly but surely work at improving my head will turn towards a new board to reward myself later this year. I am in no rush. As I'm more often than not in poor surf, small waves and loads of chop the shorter stubby type boards seem a logical option. I'm probably looking at something in the 9' range, maybe shorter but I'm more concerned about making sure the board has enough stability, and equally important enough glide and speed to actually catch the slush I usually find myself in. I dont see me going below 130L. Any lower would probably too bigger step and secondly I'd rather have a high wave count over bragging about being able to stand on 95L board in the car park. I currently weigh 85kgs (187lbs) but that needs to come down (another area I'm struggling with).

So is there such a board out there that actually blurs the lines between a stubby styled board but has some leaning towards a more performance or maybe a long board type style?
Title: Re: Does such a board exist?
Post by: sup_surf_giant on July 05, 2021, 06:36:29 AM
No, it doesn’t.

Any 9’ board is not adept at catching slop.

Sounds like you may be well served with a “Coastal Cruiser” type board. Great for distance, but also decent for catching those barely there waves and surfing them a bit.

Ron House used to make a solid option.
Title: Re: Does such a board exist?
Post by: Noo Noo on July 05, 2021, 07:09:47 AM
Thanks for the reply.

My 11' 6" Hypr serves that purpose really well to be honest. Loads of glide etc etc. I've been fishing off it, used it as a family board etc. It also picks up waves really well (I'm the issue rather than the board) but I suspect that it isn't one that is easy to throw round on small waves.

I suppose I'm looking for something to compliment it as part of a quiver. Something that will be easier to throw round etc. My current list of possibles are as follows: (please note that I'm not adverse to oversizing this board to help stability / and or wave catching.)

 - SMIK Hipster Twin
 - Infinity RNB
 - Hypernut
 - Fanatic Stubby
 - Something from Sunova - Larger Speeed maybe)
 - Starboard Pro - largest one 9'0, my gut says this will be a struggle
 - Jimmy Lewis Super Frank

Title: Re: Does such a board exist?
Post by: PonoBill on July 05, 2021, 07:34:14 AM
You can probably go to something in the 10' range, but any shorter and you'll miss more than you catch unless you can paddle like Laird. My choice for nearly every kind of surf is the 10'4" Foote Triton, but you'd have to search like crazy to find one, and it would probably be used. It's the easiest board to surf I've ever found and its particularly good for choppy shit--or better conditions if you've got geezer balance issues.

Handles are a big deal to me, I like everything about Sunovas except the handles, which I'd replace with a SIC-style dished bridge handle that I'd beg Mark Raaphorst to make for me, and I'd swap in before the board got wet.
Title: Re: Does such a board exist?
Post by: Noo Noo on July 05, 2021, 08:43:23 AM
Thanks again. No chance of finding a Foote here in the UK  :(. I've never even heard of them until a couple of weeks ago researching stuff plus the SUP shelves are really bare at the moment. No one has any stock at all. Even the 2021 stuff hasn't arrived.

I never thought handles would be a thing, but they are, and Hypr boards are awesome apart from that after thought that seems to be stuck in there. Given the quality of the boards I do wonder if that was a compromise related to some of the internal construction or something. They are bad and it's simply a pain to carry the board any distance. I've a got a sling / leash combo thing which is fine for touring etc. Sadly not so much for surfing.

Not sure I want to go to around 10' to be honest, not unless it offers something wildly different to what I have. I'm not objecting to the idea but if such a beast were to materialise I suspect I'd be selling the Hypr as I'd have no use for it. Not against the idea but it does tick a whole load of boxes for me.

Just to note that I thought that the Stubby boards were designed for these kind of conditions? I'm just wondering if there's anyone that has taken that concept a but further and developed it a bit.
Title: Re: Does such a board exist?
Post by: TallDude on July 05, 2021, 09:46:47 AM
The Mana 9'5" wide body is a tweener board. I know a few guys (beginner to intermediate surfers) who have them. They will surf way better than your Hypr, but not a high performance sup surf board. Plenty of with and length and volume, but actually designed to surf with.
https://www.naishsurfing.com/product/mana-gtw/
Title: Re: Does such a board exist?
Post by: surlygringo on July 05, 2021, 10:22:08 AM
I have had to surf a lot of crappy messed up surf while on the road and I think your best option is to  jump down to a short board. Boards in the 7’6” range work really well in that kind of surf and they can be accessible to newer riders if they are pretty wide. It helps a lot if you have prone shortboard surfing experience so that you know how to position for takeoffs and have a feel for getting back on the tailblock and compressing in your turns. But if you don’t you just have to have some commitment and be willing to pay dues for a week or two.
The only board on your list I have experience with is the hypernut. I think a 7’10” could work for you, but don’t go any bigger. Those boards need to be surfed as small as you can manage. They are very stable in chop and surf really well if get your foot back on the tailblock. It will be much slower paddling out the back and you will need to relearn how to takeoff. No more paddling in canoe style like on your current board. You have to position yourself where the wave is standing up more and learn to take a couple quick strokes and drive the board down the face with your front foot. They actually get into waves pretty easy, it is just a very different technique. I don’t think you necessarily need a “tomo” style board, just something wide for stability and short and light to snap around quickly in small waves. Avoid narrow noses and tails and try not to go over 8’ and get something as light as possible. Remember that in those kinds of waves you are moving slowly so flatter rocker and even the much maligned fuller rail can be your friend. Don’t be afraid to go as wide as 32” due to your conditions. I think you will have a lot more fun if you go shorter but wider. Those kinds of boards are not very popular at the moment,  but I have always found them to be easy to surf and very fun in crappy conditions.
Title: Re: Does such a board exist?
Post by: Noo Noo on July 05, 2021, 12:29:08 PM
The Mana 9'5" wide body is a tweener board. I know a few guys (beginner to intermediate surfers) who have them. They will surf way better than your Hypr, but not a high performance sup surf board. Plenty of with and length and volume, but actually designed to surf with.
https://www.naishsurfing.com/product/mana-gtw/

ADDED TO MY LIST!!
Thanks for the recommendation. I've just seen a Supboarder review of the 8'10" custom which seems to tick lots of boxes.

More food for thought
Title: Re: Does such a board exist?
Post by: Noo Noo on July 05, 2021, 12:42:12 PM
I have had to surf a lot of crappy messed up surf while on the road and I think your best option is to  jump down to a short board. Boards in the 7’6” range work really well in that kind of surf and they can be accessible to newer riders if they are pretty wide. It helps a lot if you have prone shortboard surfing experience so that you know how to position for takeoffs and have a feel for getting back on the tailblock and compressing in your turns. But if you don’t you just have to have some commitment and be willing to pay dues for a week or two.
The only board on your list I have experience with is the hypernut. I think a 7’10” could work for you, but don’t go any bigger. Those boards need to be surfed as small as you can manage. They are very stable in chop and surf really well if get your foot back on the tailblock. It will be much slower paddling out the back and you will need to relearn how to takeoff. No more paddling in canoe style like on your current board. You have to position yourself where the wave is standing up more and learn to take a couple quick strokes and drive the board down the face with your front foot. They actually get into waves pretty easy, it is just a very different technique. I don’t think you necessarily need a “tomo” style board, just something wide for stability and short and light to snap around quickly in small waves. Avoid narrow noses and tails and try not to go over 8’ and get something as light as possible. Remember that in those kinds of waves you are moving slowly so flatter rocker and even the much maligned fuller rail can be your friend. Don’t be afraid to go as wide as 32” due to your conditions. I think you will have a lot more fun if you go shorter but wider. Those kinds of boards are not very popular at the moment,  but I have always found them to be easy to surf and very fun in crappy conditions.

Thanks for the reply. They do seem to offer a lot of what I need. I have friend that uses them exclusively and swears by them so I'll have to badger him when we get a chance to surf. It's unfortunate that I dont see him all that often.

I'll admit that I'd nervous stepping down too far in size and volume and I've no issue with using it as a stepping stone towards my preferred choice. I couldn't even say what type of board I'll ultimately like or what style of riding I'll be doing down the line.
Title: Re: Does such a board exist?
Post by: surlygringo on July 05, 2021, 02:18:14 PM
I get why you would be nervous about a big step down and you should go with your instincts. I just wanted to voice the notion that short sups can not only offer more of a certain kind of performance in small messy waves but that they are also often easier to surf. In my experience in side on conditions the swell devolves into a series of short peaks where the cross chop intersects with the swell. In order to take advantage of the conditions you have to take off right at one of those peaks and then you have a split second or two of steep shoulder.The shorter your board is the easier it is to step back on the tail and get in a few whacks before the whole thing dribbles out. The problem, of course, is that the other part of supping, the standing around waiting for waves in choppy conditions is harder on a small board. I have had a lot of success with more mid length boards(8’5”ish) as well, but they are a little more technical to surf as you need to have better footwork to get back fast after the takeoff. Sometimes this is a difficult move when you are learning(you see posts about people having trouble getting back to the kicker). If you can’t step back to the tail it can be hard to turn the board sharply enough to fit turns into the small amount of space you have ion what I imagine to be your conditions. Mid lengths do have the advantage of much better fore and aft stability while waiting for waves. It would be pretty informative to get to try your friends hypernut. I am curious how the 7’10” would go for you as all my experience is with smaller sizes. Let me know if you get a chance to demo it.
Title: Re: Does such a board exist?
Post by: Noo Noo on July 06, 2021, 01:01:06 AM
Thanks again Surlygringo (great name). Ultimately I think you're about right regarding the 7'10" being the best size in the Hypernuts but I think that's the end game situation for me. I'm certainly going to pinch a go on my mates Hypernut on occasion this Summer. His family has 3 in various sizes from memory.

I still have a heap to learn and loads of development needed to be honest. In some ways my local beach is a pretty soul destroying and unproductive way to learn. The surf is so poor in the most part and spending hour after hour of just being battered is not great motivation but I have little option. And to be honest I am seeing small improvements and I know it will help me when I do manage to venture further afield. The alternative is probably sitting in the house so stuff that.

Stumbled onto another possible option as well. Jimmy Lewis Striker, probably the 8'11"

So far this conversation has been great as there are possible boards coming out that I probably wouldn't have considered. So thanks all and keep em coming!!
Title: Re: Does such a board exist?
Post by: supthecreek on July 06, 2021, 05:46:55 AM
Daft question. I still consider myself a beginner SUP Surfer thanks to a b*****d job and COVID basically limiting journeys to the beach. Anyhow, I'm making a concerted effort to get out this summer and develop those skills. My current board is a 11'6" Hypr Hawaii Gun. Great board but weighs a ton and has an awful carry handle.

My sessions basically comprise of getting up early going to my local beach about 20 minutes away and trying my luck. The surf there is poor, really poor. It is not a recognised surf spot, great kite surfing spot but no real waves and any wind blows it out into a chop suey soup. Yesterday, sub 10kn cross on breeze was enough to make a mess of the 2-3' swell that was present.

Anyway, as I slowly but surely work at improving my head will turn towards a new board to reward myself later this year. I am in no rush. As I'm more often than not in poor surf, small waves and loads of chop the shorter stubby type boards seem a logical option. I'm probably looking at something in the 9' range, maybe shorter but I'm more concerned about making sure the board has enough stability, and equally important enough glide and speed to actually catch the slush I usually find myself in. I dont see me going below 130L. Any lower would probably too bigger step and secondly I'd rather have a high wave count over bragging about being able to stand on 95L board in the car park. I currently weigh 85kgs (187lbs) but that needs to come down (another area I'm struggling with).

So is there such a board out there that actually blurs the lines between a stubby styled board but has some leaning towards a more performance or maybe a long board type style?

Hi Noo Noo,
Long, narrow boards like you are learning on are totally awesome, but very difficult to learn how to surf on.
They glide well, catch waves easily, but require a particular skill set to turn.

When just starting out, a wider board with more rail curve would shorten the learning curve dramatically.

IMO, you don't need to go too short to get great improvement in turning.

Something in the 9'5 x 32 range would still provide the glide you seek and also be much easier to turn.

I have spent 12 years watching people go smaller and smaller.
Funny thing is.... most of them surf exactly the same on every board they buy.

That won't apply in your case, because you are on a very technical board for a beginner.
Going 2 ft shorter and few inches wider will make a HUGE difference for you.

Once on a board that you can easily turn, your improvement will depend more on you, than the board.
Good surfers can rip on anything.... so really pushing yourself to try new things is how you will get better.

It sounds cheeky, but I always tell people:
"You get better, by getting better!"

Surfing all come from your mind.... if you "see" yourself laying down a hard rail turn in your mind, you will try and try until you get it right.
Title: Re: Does such a board exist?
Post by: SurfKiteSUP on July 06, 2021, 09:09:41 AM
Maybe a Starboard Wide Ride or Wedge?  They come in a range of sizes.

I have the 8'7" Wedge (143L) and I'm about 195#, beginner SUP surfer.  I usually surf dawn patrol so the conditions are generally clean or mild bump, beach break. 

Maybe the 9'2" version would be better suited to your conditions and requirements?
Title: Re: Does such a board exist?
Post by: sflinux on July 06, 2021, 09:39:14 AM
Let's say you were in akushaper and you wanted to shrink the length of your 11'6" x 29" and maintain stability, the board would naturally get wider.  I agree with Supthecreek, something in the 9'5" range will give you glide, and around 32" in width will give you stability.  To add to that if you widen the tail like a simsup, you can shorten the length.  Typically a 8' simsup feels like a 9' traditional board in terms of glide.  The wide tail accelerates quickly, which helps for weak small surf.  The lower the tail rocker, the faster it will accelerate.  Boards like this pack a lot of surface area under the back foot so when the wave pushes the board, and you push with your back foot, the boards tend to accelerate into the wave.  Once the water surface gets bumpy, glide from the length has a diminishing return imo.  You want short quick strokes at high cadence for quick acceleration.  I haven't tried the Hypernut but the 7'10" x 31.5" 130L design looks like it might suit.

One thing I've noticed is that as it gets windy, any part of your board sticking out of the water acts like a wing.  For that reason, I typically prefer a shorter board when it gets choppy or windy.  Too much volume and the board sits further out of the water, exposed to wind, and the forces of it.  A wider board will be easier on the knees. 
I learned on 11' x 29" boards like you (guild factor 1.69), but progressed the fastest on a 9'4" x 33" (guild factor 1.54) [btw 130L gives you a guild factor of 1.5].  I would guess the volume of a 11'6" x 29" x 4" Hyper Nalu is around 143L (guild factor 1.68).  You didn't mention your height, but typically the taller rider will appreciate additional width to have the same leverage as a shorter rider.
But really the best craft for the waves you are talking about is a foil if the water is deep enough.  Add a wing when there is a breeze and you will probably have a lot of fun.  So you may want to consider a hybrid board.
The 8'11" x 30" Jimmy Lewis Striker would probably be best suited for clean conditions imo.  I haven't tried the board but ride one of similar dimensions.
To help carry your boards to the beach I highly recommend Beasho's shoulder strap:
https://vimeo.com/128725272
One approach to lose weight is to pay attention to sugar in your diet.  The modern diet is messed up with sugar.  The liver is the only organ in the body that can break down fructose, of which has its limits.  The documentary film "That Sugar Film" sheds light on the subject.
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt3892434/ (https://www.imdb.com/title/tt3892434/)
Title: Re: Does such a board exist?
Post by: Noo Noo on July 06, 2021, 10:15:10 AM
Maybe a Starboard Wide Ride or Wedge?  They come in a range of sizes.

I have the 8'7" Wedge (143L) and I'm about 195#, beginner SUP surfer.  I usually surf dawn patrol so the conditions are generally clean or mild bump, beach break. 

Maybe the 9'2" version would be better suited to your conditions and requirements?

Thanks for the suggestion but I dont think they are really quick enough to be honest. They seem to be leaning more towards a performance shape with added width for most every day people. That is all good when in surf that actually produces a wave. My local beach doesn't do enough of that to be honest.
Title: Re: Does such a board exist?
Post by: Noo Noo on July 06, 2021, 10:43:22 AM
Let's say you were in akushaper and you wanted to shrink the length of your 11'6" x 29" and maintain stability, the board would naturally get wider.  I agree with Supthecreek, something in the 9'5" range will give you glide, and around 32" in width will give you stability.  To add to that if you widen the tail like a simsup, you can shorten the length.  Typically a 8' simsup feels like a 9' traditional board in terms of glide.  The wide tail accelerates quickly, which helps for weak small surf.  The lower the tail rocker, the faster it will accelerate.  Boards like this pack a lot of surface area under the back foot so when the wave pushes the board, and you push with your back foot, the boards tend to accelerate into the wave.  I haven't tried the Hypernut but the 7'10" x 31.5" 130L design looks like it might suit.
One thing I've noticed is that as it gets windy, any part of your board sticking out of the water acts like a wing.  For that reason, I typically prefer a shorter board when it gets choppy or windy.  Too much volume and the board sits further out of the water, exposed to wind, and the forces of it.  A wider board will be easier on the knees. 
I learned on 11' x 29" boards like you (guild factor 1.69), but progressed the fastest on a 9'4" x 33" (guild factor 1.54) [btw 130L gives you a guild factor of 1.5].  I would guess the volume of a 11'6" x 29" x 4" Hyper Nalu is around 143L (guild factor 1.68).  You didn't mention your height, but typically the taller rider will appreciate additional width to have the same leverage as a shorter rider.
But really the best craft for the waves you are talking about is a foil if the water is deep enough.  Add a wing when there is a breeze and you will probably have a lot of fun.  So you may want to consider a hybrid board.
To help carry your boards to the beach I highly recommend Beasho's shoulder strap:
https://vimeo.com/128725272
One approach to lose weight is to pay attention to sugar in your diet.  The modern diet is messed up with sugar.  The liver is the only organ in the body that can break down fructose, of which has its limits.  The documentary film "That Sugar Film" sheds light on the subject.
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt3892434/ (https://www.imdb.com/title/tt3892434/)

Thanks a lot. Lots to digest here.

My Hypr is 165L which is still on the slim side volume wise for a board of that size and thankfully does sit quite low. A 30-35L drop seemed a good step to go and brought me into the bracket of a vast number of boards. And as I've said above, I'd rather have the wave count than bragging about litres in the line up. I'm sure many of you have had sessions where you're catching pretty much everything while the prone guys just sit there having a chat. To me that is one attraction of SUP Surfing.

You're right bout remodelling it in all honesty as I'm looking to go smaller I really need to look at alternative shapes. I will need all the help from the shape that I can get. Width in the tail is certainly on the cards for all the reasons you mention. Having a pin tail etc. is well and great if you've got enough of a wave to shove you along. If you haven't then you're on the back foot before you've got anywhere. Similarly some width in the nose will also help I feel. Firstly it forces the rails into a more parallel shape which should add speed when paddling in. That would be useful. Plus a squarer overall plan shape should aid in stability (I think) provided it doesn't get too corky whereby it's bobbling round on top of the water with every bump knocking it one way or another. So that's my thinking and suggestions on here, along with yours seem to corroborate that.

I suspect that diving straight to 7'10" would be too bigger step to be honest, I'm happy to take my time on this. I want to get it right and have a steady upward progression rather than trying to take a huge leap and struggling for a while.

I haven't heard of Simsup before. The UK SUP market is a bit of a barren one to be honest. We don't get the vast range that you find in the US and Oz. We can dip into Europe but increasing care needed there since we opted to embarrassingly shaft ourselves.

Foiling. I'm trying my hardest to resist this. I kitesurf and there's crossover there but for now I'll stick to the excuse that my local beach doesn't have the depth. It honestly doesn't with numerous sand bars etc. appearing etc. at various states of the tide. It is honestly a fantastic kitesurf beach, I rate it as one of the UK's best for various reasons including the sand bars which create massive lagoon at one end. I am fighting a losing battle I suspect.

Diet. What a challenge that is proving to be. 7 years ago I was diagnosed with a form of kidney disease. Thankfully I've been stable since that short period in hospital but diet has been crucial ever since that date. Increasingly so now as I've pretty much gone vegan as the reduction in animal protein seems to be beneficial. It has in my case, however, it hasn't helped me lose weight at all. If anything I'm finding it far more difficult. Previously, I could cut down on the junk and carbs, increase my activity and I could get my weight down. Add a crap, sedentary job, family with the diet whereby my link between calories and filling satisfied is broken and I'm carrying too much spare. Some of the medication I'm on doesn't help either (water retention) so that's a discussion I need to have with my consultant next month. A couple of months ago, I basically decided to eat less, cut down on stuff, even tried some fasting and got back on my bike, literally, and got back in the water. I haven't shifted an ounce. Not one, which has left me scratching my head a little to be honest.
Title: Re: Does such a board exist?
Post by: Dusk Patrol on July 06, 2021, 12:34:30 PM

Simsup is kind of a trade name for a simmons shape board: short, wide, parallel with a wide tail.

Here's a good recent thread on L41's  Simsup and related shapes:

https://www.standupzone.com/forum/index.php/topic,37368.0.html

I think what's missing from this current thread is addressing whether the boards you've mentioned (RNB, Super Frank) which are marketed as good in small stuff, are also good in small messy choppy stuff.  I don't have the experience to answer. Just an observation. I would think the Super Frank would get you a long way, with both the 'lean' and 'wide' versions to tailor to your needs.       
Title: Re: Does such a board exist?
Post by: Noo Noo on July 06, 2021, 01:40:37 PM

Simsup is kind of a trade name for a simmons shape board: short, wide, parallel with a wide tail.

Here's a good recent thread on L41's  Simsup and related shapes:

https://www.standupzone.com/forum/index.php/topic,37368.0.html

I think what's missing from this current thread is addressing whether the boards you've mentioned (RNB, Super Frank) which are marketed as good in small stuff, are also good in small messy choppy stuff.  I don't have the experience to answer. Just an observation. I would think the Super Frank would get you a long way, with both the 'lean' and 'wide' versions to tailor to your needs.     

Great point. Anything that will make my experience easier is a massive step in the right direction to be honest.

Thinking about it it should be the central theme to the whole thread I think. A board that will make the step down in what are awful conditions or on the very odd occasion of when it is good, its still small, easier.

It obviously needs to work if I do manage to get to better breaks but even then the chances of going out in stuff that is significantly bigger is pretty small, and it's still likely to be choppy (not as choppy but still bumpy)

SimplePortal 2.3.7 © 2008-2024, SimplePortal