Standup Zone Forum
The Foil Zone => Wingsurfing, Windfoiling, Wingfoiling, Wing SUP => Topic started by: surfcowboy on April 13, 2021, 07:34:35 PM
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https://standupmagazin.com/en/2021/04/the-wing-overload/
Insane overload of companies making these things. It’s either going to be huge (?) or everyone is going out of business soon.
His main point to me is that things are too confusing for a beginner, too many options. He’s right that a beginner can use most any wing to get going. Don’t get locked up if you’re trying to figure it out. Just get any known brand. Damien LeRoy said the same on a video recently.
Crazy times in wingland.
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yup, it's pretty crazy, everyone is getting in on the gold rush. Because despite all the early whinging from kiters and windsurfers, this really is exploding. I know so many people who haven't been wind chasers before that are considering it ... opens up the possibilities pretty quick and easy.
another similar issue...I am finding the array of foil wings to be getting towards silly. Great to have choices, but at some point it gets a little overwhelming.
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It’s a lot like when SUP took the world by storm. So many fly by night companies got into the industry only to disappear within a year or two. I see the same for Wing foiling. It’s why I trust companies who have made names for themselves in kiting and windsurfing...Duotone, Fanatic, Naish, Starboard to name a few. These companies have history and will be around for a while and help grow this sport while producing quality products and the latest technology.
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The FOMO is real when you have so much choice.
Early on I took the view that I'd commit to a brand I'd trust to get it more right than wrong and wouldn't cost me too much if they didn't. See my signature for confirmation of who that is!
Now I'm refreshing my kit I'm moving away to other brands for wings because there are specific features I'm looking for that they don't offer. For foils, I'm still happy with how they perform, so I'm resisting the temptation of the shiny new, and I've just got a new board from them but it was pretty much the board I was looking for anyway.
But even after 18 months of winging the amount of new kit is daunting to assess. Even worse that often you have to pre order just to be sure of getting what you want with limited supply.
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When I was whining at Ken about not being able to get the new Duotone somethingorother (Slick? Slack? Stretch? Sting?) he said they were having problems getting materials because they need enough for 30,000 kites and 17,000 wings. I didn't say what I was thinking, which was "Holy shit, the wing biz is that big??" That's somewhere around $13 million at retail, just for wings. I didn't expect that. I was thinking hundreds, not thousands. That explains all the wingers I'm seeing everywhere and the crush of companies entering the fray. But yeah, most of them will be gone in a few years, and the Duotone, Naish, Gong, etc. etc. players will own the market.
I know Duotone is one of the bigger kite/sail/wing companies, but I always view these companies as dinky. I suspect my delusions about company size comes from running a high-tech focused advertising agency. We wouldn't actively pursue a client who did less than $100 million, and we were a lot more excited about those who did more than a billion--we just couldn't effectively work with small marketing budgets. That definitely screws with one's perspective.
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17,000 wings??!?!
That is a lot of wings - way more than I thought the market could bear and that’s just one brand.
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Kite companies are on life support right now, foiling is the only thing keeping them going. Not enough young people getting into it, prices are too high. You guys living in wind swept locations have no idea how important the right wing is. Naish & Ozone don’t work so well where I live.
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To clarify, we were standing next to traffic on a windy beach and I'm getting a bit deaf. That may not be what he said, it's what I think he said.
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Right now, wing companies seem more regional. The brands we have access to here on Maui aren’t the same ones in Aus/NZ, the Euros have their own brands. Some folks order stuff online, but most buy what’s in stock at their local board shops. It’s almost like cars. There are many brands in the world, but they are not offered everywhere and people buy what is available locally. So there aren’t “too many” wing companies, there are just lots in different places.
As for sticking to “known” brands, that strategy has had mixed results for me. It all depends on how much R&D the company is doing for winging. There is a big “local name” board maker who made a bunch of boards for the first Wing Surfers, the boards never made sense to me. Then I found out that the owner does not wing, and has no interest, thus the boards are off. For my first board, I went with my favorite SUP company, but they too weren’t into winging, so their shape made no sense either.
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New entrants keep up the pressure: better for us. I was kind of surprised how long Ozone took (given they own the production facility) to respond with a v2, but they are a pretty busy and diverse shop. If you want to get nervous about missing out on the latest—check out the tail end of Robert Stehliks' podcast with Rob Whittall of Ozone.
https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkLnBvZGJlYW4uY29tL2JsdWVwbGFuZXQvZmVlZC54bWw/episode/Ymx1ZXBsYW5ldC5wb2RiZWFuLmNvbS9kODNjMTFhNC1hYmVjLTM5YjAtOWVlNC1jMjFjMDJiZDE1Y2I?sa=X&ved=0CAUQkfYCahcKEwj4maOS4YDwAhUAAAAAHQAAAAAQAQ&hl=en
...and do the forum and newbies a favor - sell your 'aged' wings and foils here.
Jim
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I live in one of the wind capitals of the world, SF. Quality probably a notch or so below Maui or the Gorge, but we have numbers as in millions of residents.
The local shops struggle to have stock.
I've heard fone ozone ensis are either out of stock, or low stock, and months out to get stock.
I don't dare sell a wing or board because who knows how long until I get a replacement.
If there are lots of wing companies I'm not seeing them here
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I live in one of the wind capitals of the world, SF. Quality probably a notch or so below Maui or the Gorge, but we have numbers as in millions of residents.
The local shops struggle to have stock.
I've heard fone ozone ensis are either out of stock, or low stock, and months out to get stock.
I don't dare sell a wing or board because who knows how long until I get a replacement.
If there are lots of wing companies I'm not seeing them here
+1
In Spain there is a persistent rumour that stock will run out before summer.
I am buying first and selling later,and the selling is going pretty easy.
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I live in one of the wind capitals of the world, SF. Quality probably a notch or so below Maui or the Gorge, but we have numbers as in millions of residents.
The local shops struggle to have stock.
I've heard fone ozone ensis are either out of stock, or low stock, and months out to get stock.
I don't dare sell a wing or board because who knows how long until I get a replacement.
If there are lots of wing companies I'm not seeing them here
+1
In Spain there is a persistent rumour that stock will run out before summer.
I am buying first and selling later,and the selling is going pretty easy.
There is definitely a problem in the supply chain. Is it because to much demand or is there a much deeper problem ... time will tell .
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Manufacturers and distributors are hesitant to do any ramping up right now. That goes for all sports and even other industries. No one is sure if this Covid bubble demand will last. Lots of factors. If a manufacturer is at capacity, most aren't going to invest in expanding because we are in such rare uncertain times. From what I've read and seen is "just wait it out and see what unfolds when we return to a new normal."
Lumber has reach a crazy high over the past few months. A 4x8x 3/8' sheet of Struct 1 plywood is $47. and 4x8 x 1/2" OSB sheets are $35. ea. That's up almost 200% from last year.
The bike manufacturers are raising their prices almost 20%. Supply and demand. We have a possibly temporary demand and a temporary low supply. If no one can get the products, then raise the prices on the stock you have and those who really want it will pay that price. We need about 250 sheets of plywood on a project. The lumber yards aren't stocking it now. They will order it for us straight from the mill, and we are going to wait 3 weeks to get it. The lumber yards don't want to over pay for stock now, and sell it at a loss later. Strange and cautious times.
There are hundreds of container ships still just sitting off the Port of Los Angeles / Long Beach. They've been out there for months... Everyone is waiting..
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Yeah something crazy going on these days, we make wings and to get production at the moment is bloody hard work!! https://www.oneoceansportsaustralia.com/shop/ej6j6shsstp08p0qvhnf5wrnsmg8do
When I was doing all the early testing and looking for the best places to make the wings the factorys were so crazy booked out that getting anything done was pretty crazy hard.
For guys and companies like ours, we are usually sweet as we run super low overheads and never hold crazy amounts of stock so hard to get caught with our pants down and can bend and roll if needed. It's a pretty easy concept for us as we only really focus on the quality side for all our products and as long as we don't get lazy then we can usually stay ahead of the big guys in many cases.
Will be interesting over the next year or so as a heap of people trying to cash in and I can see a heap of shit wings being sold cheap as people realize its not that easy to sell 17,000 wings haha
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Yes. All the supply chains be busted. I listened to an idiot explain that it was all a scam at Lowes today while I was spending 80 bucks for 3/4 maple-faced plywood and 50 bucks for sanded fir.
You'll be surprised that I didn't throttle him and leave his body behind a stack of treated 4X4.
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At some point you begin to lose track:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2LYYsColhe0&t=4s