Standup Zone Forum
The Foil Zone => Foil SUP => Topic started by: Vancouver_foiler on February 24, 2021, 10:34:28 PM
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You know I picked up an 860 surf wing and it's pretty fun..but I still actually prefer my 900with ultrashort and a small stab. Anybody else out there feeling what I'm throwing down?
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I preferred the 900 over the 860. The HPS foils crush them both.
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My alternatives are 1000/860 because I'm probably heavier (215#). I do switch back and forth, but it's not a matter of liking one or the other more, they are so different. The 860 carves and swoops, the 1000 turns and glides. The 860 takes a lot of speed to lift, and when it comes up it's easy to stall, the 1000 is two pumps and you're going, and it doesn't stall unless you do something silly.
Light wind --1150. Mid-speed wind (20-30) and I'm on the 1000. High wind it's 860 every time.
Mushy waves--1150. More punch 1000. Scary 860.
I haven't found a quiver killer except for SoCal with lousy wind and shore break surf. For here it's 1150 for everything except San Onofre where the 1000 gets the nod.
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I have ridden double gull shape wings of other brands and had trouble feeling at home on them. My understanding is they were designed for kiting fully powered up on tiny little boards zig zagging around continually turning to one side and then the other, with no interest in straight line cruising or speed.
900 is my favorite axis wing so far. I am wondering how flat wings of equal or larger span turn better than the 900? Love to see someone ripping turns on them.
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I have ridden double gull shape wings of other brands and had trouble feeling at home on them. My understanding is they were designed for kiting fully powered up on tiny little boards zig zagging around continually turning to one side and then the other, with no interest in straight line cruising or speed.
900 is my favorite axis wing so far. I am wondering how flat wings of equal or larger span turn better than the 900? Love to see someone ripping turns on them.
You just described the 860. It's happiest when it's banking. Going straight is a bit of a chore, and basically pointless. I just go with it, I love that feeling. That wing plus a 96cm mast and I'm a zigzagging fool. So much fun.
I've learned to turn the heck out of the 1150, which is odd, because the 1010 looks a lot like it, and it pivots rather than turns. I thought perhaps I was just inept or confused but I've heard lots of people say the same thing. The 1150 will lock into a turn and just keep turning until you say stop. In fact, I've blown right out the back of a wave because I didn't. If you just stay in it, the 1150 will do a 360 or more, while I can't think of a way to make a 1010 do that other than in separate chucks of making the board pivot.
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Both are fun depending on what I'm looking to do. 900 is faster, curvier, and pumps better, 860 is slower, slashier, and more difficult to pump. But you have to keep the 860 moving on the wave; while the 900 likes to glide when allowed to, the 860...not so much. Best of both of them...900, crazy short, 390 or 370...super fun, fast, slashy, and still glides and pumps well (just have to pick up the cadence a bit).
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I preferred the 900 over the 860. The HPS foils crush them both.
What Black series wing are you on Dwight? Please expound!
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What Black series wing are you on Dwight? Please expound!
I ride the HPS-980 v1 all the time. I only use the 1050 when I have to use my 6m Ensis. My wife uses the HPS-880 all the time. She only uses her 980 v1 when she has to use the 5.2m Ensis.
So it is one foil for all but the worst light wind days (10-14) for each of us.
I only point out we’re using the v1 980 because, the current equal size/area/lift v2 HPS (all final production models are v2) is the 930. So to be crystal clear, the v1 980 compares to the current 930. The v2 980 is bigger foil.
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Anyone surfing (no wind power) the HPS wings? Is there anything in the lineup worth a look?
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The 980 is being used by a guy in la to learn how to downwind. Seems to work pretty good. Last slide here.
https://www.instagram.com/p/CMOkr33rz_y/?igshid=28cmevgwhghj
A demo 880 just made its way to la so we'll see how that goes.
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Anyone surfing (no wind power) the HPS wings? Is there anything in the lineup worth a look?
Yes!! The 980 is super fun in averaged size waves, and the 1050 is an absolute blast in the smaller stuff (click here (https://www.standupzone.com/forum/index.php/topic,37041.0.html) to checkout a report on it). Looking forward to getting my hands on the 880 in the not too distant future, and will report on that then. :)
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What Black series wing are you on Dwight? Please expound!
I ride the HPS-980 v1 all the time. I only use the 1050 when I have to use my 6m Ensis. My wife uses the HPS-880 all the time. She only uses her 980 v1 when she has to use the 5.2m Ensis.
So it is one foil for all but the worst light wind days (10-14) for each of us.
I only point out we’re using the v1 980 because, the current equal size/area/lift v2 HPS (all final production models are v2) is the 930. So to be crystal clear, the v1 980 compares to the current 930. The v2 980 is bigger foil.
This is the foil sup forum.
Have you also sup foiled theHPS880 HPS980 and HPS1050?
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Anyone surfing (no wind power) the HPS wings? Is there anything in the lineup worth a look?
Yes!! The 980 is super fun in averaged size waves, and the 1050 is an absolute blast in the smaller stuff (click here (https://www.standupzone.com/forum/index.php/topic,37041.0.html) to checkout a report on it). Looking forward to getting my hands on the 880 in the not too distant future, and will report on that then. :)
Is there any downside to the 1050 that you’ve noticed? Thanks, I went and reread that thread. ;)
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Is there any downside to the 1050 that you’ve noticed? Thanks, I went and reread that thread. ;)
Only that it's a bigger wing, and you can't throw it around as much as a smaller one (and why the 880 interests me so much).
But that's also just me personally, I dig everything about HA wings. But some folks don't like HA wings because they don't have as much initial lift as LA ones, and thus don't "Ollie up" as easily/instantly on takeoff, and even have a slight "stickiness" as you're initially up and flying that you have to give a quick pump to release before you're off to the races. Because of that, there's a bit of getting used to this "pause and release" (best way I can describe it) which some never really master or become comfortable with for whatever reason(s).
Some are also intimidated by the speed once they do get them in the air, and the HPS wings don't like to slow down or they'll fall out of the sky. I tell all riders taking the HPS wings out for the first time, that they need to keep hustling them, and don't become complacent with how easily/effortlessly they glide and pump. But inevitably, all come back with a big smile on their face about how true that statement is, because you just have to experience it to actually understand what's meant by it. Lol... ;D
What happens, is that they glide so well, you get lulled in to thinking you'll go forever, but unlike other wings that when you slow down in a glide that just start to lose altitude and you know it's time to give 'em a little pump to get back up and gliding again...the HPS wings glide effortlessly, but when they start to slow down to their higher stall speed, they tell you by simple falling off plane, accompanied with a subsequent face plant. :o
The first time it happens you think you breached, but after the second time you realize you're not breaching, but rather that the wing is stalling from full height, and that you just have to keep the gas pedal pressed. Now the good thing about them and that, is that because they're so fast and glide so well once you get them going, you don't have to be too aggressive with your pumping ("less is more" really), and so the tendency to actually breach them is far less then with other LA wings.
So I guess I'm saying that their "downside" for some, is that they're not like other lower aspect wings, and take a bit of getting used to the first couple of times out...and that some folks get freaked out by the "pause and release", their higher stall speed, and their higher speed overall....thinking they can just go out and ride them like their old slower wings, which is not the case at all.
Hope that helps you get a better understanding of the differences between the HPS wings, and the 860 and 900 that were the initial question(s) wrt this thread. So if you want to drive a Ferrari and get the most out it, the HPS wings are for you (hence the "High Performance" in the name), but if you're more of an Audi or Mercedes driver, than the BCS or PNG series might be a better choice of wings for you.
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Thank you for the detailed response...really appreciate the thought that went into it! I never noticed the stickiness thing with the 1010 or 910 but definitely don’t like the quick liftoff on takeoff. I used to have an Armstrong 1600 and everything I bought for it was to make the initial liftoff gentler. :o
Is the stall speed on the 1050 really much higher? Or can you adjust to it after a few sessions? I’m after slow, weak, mushy off season waves so anything that can help extract energy from them would be helpful. If it’s bigger, the 910 works for me in anything from about waist high to shoulder high. Anything bigger and I’m on the inside catching whitewash. ;D
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Thank you for the detailed response...really appreciate the thought that went into it! I never noticed the stickiness thing with the 1010 or 910 but definitely don’t like the quick liftoff on takeoff. I used to have an Armstrong 1600 and everything I bought for it was to make the initial liftoff gentler. :o
No, it's not with the other wing series, just the HPS. I was confused myself when another guy told me about it before I had a chance to try one. He said that it takes a bit of getting used to, and he was correct.
It feels as though you're kinda stuck in the wave, and that it's going to pass you, but then with a little nudge...you're then shot off out of a cannon, and hauling arse across the face. Once you realize how to take advantage of this, it helps you "setup" your takeoff/release, getting things aimed in the right direction before "lighting the fuse" if you will. :D
So for me at least, I use it to get the board turned slightly, and why I said "you're hauling arse across the face"...instead of heading straight down in the pocket where many foilers seem to go on takeoff, and then get swallowed up when they can't out run it, or turn it fast enough to get out of the way of it.
Is the stall speed on the 1050 really much higher? Or can you adjust to it after a few sessions?
Much higher? Dunno what actual stall speeds the respective wings have, but it is noticeably different when you realize that you didn't actually breach from going too fast, but that you actually slowed down too much for the wing to remain flying.
So the adjustment period for that is real quick, usually after the first time it happens to you, especially now that you're forewarned, I had to learn it myself, and it took a couple tumbles thinking I was breaching. I learned by getting to height, gliding fast, and then not wanting to do it again...slowed down, and...WHAM!...there I went over the handlebars again. That's when the light bulb came on, and keeping it flying fast(er) was the key.
I’m after slow, weak, mushy off season waves so anything that can help extract energy from them would be helpful. If it’s bigger, the 910 works for me in anything from about waist high to shoulder high. Anything bigger and I’m on the inside catching whitewash. ;D
Then you should love the 1050. It lifts well in small stuff (it was actually designed for down-winding and winging), and flies/pumps in just about nothing, so as long as you keep it moving (you'll figure out how fast really quickly) you'll have it dialed-in in not time. 👍🏽
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That sounds awesome! Thanks again for the detailed info. Just asked the guy I get my gear from and he doesn’t have a 1050 demo, just the 980. Not sure if I should wait and see what he gets in stock or just go with the 1010 for now. I don’t like to collect wings, and actually having a second wing at all is new to me. ;D I suspect the 1010 will be hard to get rid of, if and when I can try/buy a 1050.
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A 1010 just sold in the classifieds. There's a good market for AXIS 2nd hand it appears.
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I'd demo the 980 since he has it if I were you. If you paddle your other wings, and then the 980, I think you'll feel just paddling out how much easier it glides under just paddle power...I know that was the very first thing I noticed right away with it. You'll then also get an idea of how they lift, and I think you'll be surprised at just how small a wave even the 980 is able to catch.
Now I'm not trying to talk you or anyone out of the 1010 or some other wing(s), they're all great wings as well, but all have unique characteristics and purposes. It's just that you asked specifically about surfing the HPS wings, and just me personally and how I like to foil...the HPSs are much thinner, and therefore faster and pump much easier than their similar sized brothers...something I'm looking for in my wings.
But I have to keep reminding myself that not everyone wants to ride the way I do, and want a more "carvy/surfy" wing, and that trying to connect waves is not as important for them (I'm also lucky that I have a whole host of wing combos to play with daily for whatever I'm in the mood for 8)). It kind of all depends on what you're actually looking for in a setup for me to truly recommend the right one for you (or at least where to start looking). Like I tell everyone asking about "the best setup" for them, "Well it all depends on what you're looking to do with it, and that when you get something from one wing, you'll lose something else you had/liked in another". 🤷♂️ :)
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Thanks Califoilia, that answers a couple questions I had in mind.
I've got an 880 and crazy short on the way.
quote author=Califoilia link=topic=37037.msg426907#msg426907 date=1615740530]
Is there any downside to the 1050 that you’ve noticed? Thanks, I went and reread that thread. ;)
Only that it's a bigger wing, and you can't throw it around as much as a smaller one (and why the 880 interests me so much).
But that's also just me personally, I dig everything about HA wings. But some folks don't like HA wings because they don't have as much initial lift as LA ones, and thus don't "Ollie up" as easily/instantly on takeoff, and even have a slight "stickiness" as you're initially up and flying that you have to give a quick pump to release before you're off to the races. Because of that, there's a bit of getting used to this "pause and release" (best way I can describe it) which some never really master or become comfortable with for whatever reason(s).
Some are also intimidated by the speed once they do get them in the air, and the HPS wings don't like to slow down or they'll fall out of the sky. I tell all riders taking the HPS wings out for the first time, that they need to keep hustling them, and don't become complacent with how easily/effortlessly they glide and pump. But inevitably, all come back with a big smile on their face about how true that statement is, because you just have to experience it to actually understand what's meant by it. Lol... ;D
What happens, is that they glide so well, you get lulled in to thinking you'll go forever, but unlike other wings that when you slow down in a glide that just start to lose altitude and you know it's time to give 'em a little pump to get back up and gliding again...the HPS wings glide effortlessly, but when they start to slow down to their higher stall speed, they tell you by simple falling off plane, accompanied with a subsequent face plant. :o
The first time it happens you think you breached, but after the second time you realize you're not breaching, but rather that the wing is stalling from full height, and that you just have to keep the gas pedal pressed. Now the good thing about them and that, is that because they're so fast and glide so well once you get them going, you don't have to be too aggressive with your pumping ("less is more" really), and so the tendency to actually breach them is far less then with other LA wings.
So I guess I'm saying that their "downside" for some, is that they're not like other lower aspect wings, and take a bit of getting used to the first couple of times out...and that some folks get freaked out by the "pause and release", their higher stall speed, and their higher speed overall....thinking they can just go out and ride them like their old slower wings, which is not the case at all.
Hope that helps you get a better understanding of the differences between the HPS wings, and the 860 and 900 that were the initial question(s) wrt this thread. So if you want to drive a Ferrari and get the most out it, the HPS wings are for you (hence the "High Performance" in the name), but if you're more of an Audi or Mercedes driver, than the BCS or PNG series might be a better choice of wings for you.
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Thanks Califoilia, that answers a couple questions I had in mind.
I've got an 880 and crazy short on the way.
Stoked for you!! Totally awesome!
Just learned that an 880 (and a V2 76cm carbon mast) is on it way too me. Can't say how excited I am; I think the 880 is going to be just incredible under a sup board!! Please keep me posted as to how you like it, and especially w/the crazy short. I don't have a black CS, but love my red one...so want to hear what you think about yours when you get it. :D