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The Foil Zone => Wingsurfing, Windfoiling, Wingfoiling, Wing SUP => Topic started by: deja vu on February 24, 2021, 08:17:18 AM

Title: 30:1 -- wing sales vs. kite sales
Post by: deja vu on February 24, 2021, 08:17:18 AM
If "winging" is just a fad it's a pretty big one.  I saw this short segment of an interview with Wyatt Miller posted on another forum so I thought some here might be interested about how their sport is taking off -- here's the clip.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EgELM_TQNjA
Title: Re: 30:1 -- wing sales vs. kite sales
Post by: juandesooka on February 24, 2021, 08:52:42 AM
Interesting.  That's anecdotal, 1 shop off-hand comment, so take it with a grain of salt.  But lots of sales vs less is probably pretty obvious everywhere.   Pent-up demand: there's a lot of people who don't do windsports and this is a very easy entry point.  Even for just playing on a sup on a lake on a breezy summer day.  To chase proper surf, you're into $3k minimum ... but if you already have a sup, then spending $600-800 on a wind toy seems pretty minimal.  No lessons, no complicated rigging, no danger (compared to kiting). No wonder all the kite and windsurf companies are frantically chasing the market.
Title: Re: 30:1 -- wing sales vs. kite sales
Post by: jondrums on February 24, 2021, 01:27:44 PM
Add to that enormous profit margins on wings and everyone wants in.  Several wings are selling for over $1000.
Title: Re: 30:1 -- wing sales vs. kite sales
Post by: Wetstuff on February 24, 2021, 01:57:44 PM
I doubt people will be much satisfied with a SUP and a wing, Juan.  It is kinda schleppy for an $800. addon to a SUP - even a good one.  It is like drinking cold tea.  It is the foil/wing combo that could be the slow death of kites.  There are so many things in favor of this new option vs kites. ...kite jumpers will begin to notice new moves.   

My sense, in the performance area anyway, the market is pretty inelastic. There are only so many hardcore waterfolk. At least here, there has been no observable massive increase in total numbers of any option.  Songe, like casual windsurfing, is history.

Jim
 
Title: Re: 30:1 -- wing sales vs. kite sales
Post by: Tom on February 24, 2021, 01:58:20 PM
Quote
Even for just playing on a sup on a lake on a breezy summer day.

Can this be fun without foiling? If so, how much wind would you need?
Title: Re: 30:1 -- wing sales vs. kite sales
Post by: Dwight (DW) on February 24, 2021, 02:15:59 PM

Can this be fun without foiling? If so, how much wind would you need?

It can for some people. We had an old guy show up at Kelly Park with a SUP and that stick-on dagger board thing Slingshot is selling. When I saw him setting up his gear, I thought oh no!

Well he proved me wrong. He was sailing all over the place. Going upwind. Having a good time. He came two days in a row. He seemed to be having fun, and making it look fun. For people who want a throwback to the old days. A bit like owning a windsurfer one design and just having fun. With way lighter gear, and way cheaper.

You want enough wind so you’re not holding the weight of the wing with your shoulders/arms. 15 plus I think.
Title: Re: 30:1 -- wing sales vs. kite sales
Post by: Solent Foiler on February 24, 2021, 02:24:59 PM
...
It is the foil/wing combo that could be the slow death of kites.  There are so many things in favor of this new option vs kites. ...kite jumpers will begin to notice new moves.   

My sense, in the performance area anyway, the market is pretty inelastic. There are only so many hardcore waterfolk. At least here, there has been no observable massive increase in total numbers of any option.  Songe, like casual windsurfing, is history.

Jim

And regular windsurfing. I've lost count the times I've been happily foiling around windsurfers slogging along to reach the next gust. Yes it's ultimately faster, but that gets old and when you throw wing harnesses into the mix the difference in experience starts to really diminish irrespective of the foiling difference... Wave sailing might be different, but that is a niche. Is there even a compelling reason to windfoil over winging?
Title: Re: 30:1 -- wing sales vs. kite sales
Post by: Dwight (DW) on February 24, 2021, 03:03:18 PM
Is there even a compelling reason to windfoil over winging?

windsurf foilers can still ride in less wind. They put 8m sails on and beat me.
Title: Re: 30:1 -- wing sales vs. kite sales
Post by: Caribsurf on February 24, 2021, 08:54:20 PM
As a long time windsurfer  I can finally say....

“ kitesurfing has been canceled”

Windsurfers will know what I mean
Title: Re: 30:1 -- wing sales vs. kite sales
Post by: WingNut Ohana on February 24, 2021, 11:51:12 PM
On Maui it was a combination of:

People locked down looking for something to do.
Beaches being open when nothing else was.
No cruise ships and much less cargo ships leaving an empty protected harbor
No tourists buying new kite and windsurf gear and crowding up the water
Free .gov money from “stimulus” and the unemployment $800/week add on

It was like Christmas season in all the board shops all year. Nothing was in stock! People jumped into winging with both feet. Some came from foil surfing, many from kiting and windsurf. But also lots of folks with water but no wind experience picking up a wind-sport for the first time.

New wings and foil boards lasted about a week on the shelves. Used gear sold fast near new prices. Everyday in the harbor there were new folks learning the sport for the first time.
Title: Re: 30:1 -- wing sales vs. kite sales
Post by: Dwight (DW) on February 25, 2021, 04:09:10 AM
As a long time windsurfer  I can finally say....

“ kitesurfing has been canceled”

Windsurfers will know what I mean


So true  ;D

We sold all our kites last summer when we got wings. Our friends said they would not stop kiting, but their kites are not used anymore. They are in denial.
Title: Re: 30:1 -- wing sales vs. kite sales
Post by: Solent Foiler on February 25, 2021, 08:19:11 AM
Is there even a compelling reason to windfoil over winging?

windsurf foilers can still ride in less wind. They put 8m sails on and beat me.

Ok, can appreciate that. Will be interesting to see if in future getting winging in super light wind will remain the preserve of the pros or whether mortals can expect to do that too. Maybe it just means committing to a massive foil, but not sure how interested I am in going down that rabbit hole...
Title: Re: 30:1 -- wing sales vs. kite sales
Post by: VB_Foil on February 25, 2021, 08:45:22 AM
I just ordered the slap on dagger board by Slingshot (SupWinder) so I can put in on my wife's twice used 12'6 touring SUP.  I'm hoping she gives it a go.  I will also be taking my young ones out on it and teaching them with my little 2M. 
Title: Re: 30:1 -- wing sales vs. kite sales
Post by: PonoBill on February 25, 2021, 09:11:38 AM
Yeah, in light wind the windfoilers have a clear advantage because there are sails that work in 5mph wind. My big wing is the Airrush 7.0 and it's a clumsy, heavy thing. Especially in the lulls where I have to somehow keep the mega-long strut from dipping into the water which instantly tries to stand the wing up and pivot the board into it.

If and when someone builds a light, maneuverable, stable 7 or 8M I'll likely buy one, but for now, super light wind wingfoiling is not much fun.

Of course, the windfoilers with their 9M sails get truly screwed when the wind dies below the critical point for them. Even with the wind nearly dead, I've always managed to get back to my starting point. I watched the best of the low-wind windfoilers on Mission Bay stow his gear on the wrong shore and take the long walk around the bay to get his truck.

I'm going to be a very happy boy to be back where my 6M wing is the least used member of the quiver. I wore mine out this winter in SoCal. It's the only wing I used until I got an Airrush, and I'd still prefer it if I had a sewing machine here to repair it.
Title: Re: 30:1 -- wing sales vs. kite sales
Post by: Wetstuff on February 25, 2021, 10:24:13 AM
VB...  I quickly found/bought an old BIC One Design after trying a 10-0 x 32 SUP and then hearing about 'daggerboards'. I got rid of the straps and added more non-slip. It was nice and wide with a swinging daggerboard. Yeech?!   

It turns out - my 27" x 12-6 wave-shape SUP worked quite well. (I figgered it too narrow early on.) There's enough rocker so you can bury the upwind rail a tick and the shape automatically crawls upwind just fine.  At a luxurious rate. 

Jim
Title: Re: 30:1 -- wing sales vs. kite sales
Post by: PonoBill on February 25, 2021, 04:05:49 PM
for true wingcruising fun, find an ancient Starboard 12'6" with either the daggerboard or the Tuttle box in the middle of the bottom. Add your favorite Tuttle fin, and off you go. Some of the 12'2" starboard had a mid-bottom Tuttle as well
Title: Re: 30:1 -- wing sales vs. kite sales
Post by: Pasquales on February 27, 2021, 09:05:57 PM
I'm one of those who came into winging from a surfing background. What I've learned in the last 9 mos is not everyone lives in places with strong winds.  However there are plenty places with marginally windy days.  For folks living in these locations, a kite can get you more foil days over a wing. Some will bounce between kiting and winging depending on the day.  So I don't see kiting dying any time soon.  Quite the opposite.  Winging may have a positive influence on kite sales, and help expand that sport.
As a long time windsurfer  I can finally say....

“ kitesurfing has been canceled”

Windsurfers will know what I mean


So true  ;D

We sold all our kites last summer when we got wings. Our friends said they would not stop kiting, but their kites are not used anymore. They are in denial.
Title: Re: 30:1 -- wing sales vs. kite sales
Post by: PonoBill on February 28, 2021, 07:08:22 AM
True that^^. Even in Hood River there are plenty of days when the kite folks, especially the foilers, are having a fine time and I'm not. I'm almost jealous enough to try foiling again--I've got all this musty old gear just waiting. But no.
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