Standup Zone Forum
The Foil Zone => Wingsurfing, Windfoiling, Wingfoiling, Wing SUP => Topic started by: Mike dubs on February 23, 2021, 07:43:35 AM
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Have been on a Takuma SK foil sup 6’ 115L for last year. I’m 77kg and today rode my new board 5’6 85L Takuma TK.
Wow what a difference, everything seems easier. Was worried I’d struggle to start it, but was easy, I think I might have even got away with the 5’4 75L version.
The volume distribution and recessed scoop deck really encourage ur knees and feet into the right spot. Only took a couple of runs to get comfortable, also really easy to pump up. It’s also really light.
Really pleased and glad I’ve dropped down.
Mike
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Good for you Mike, I know exactly where you are coming from after dropping down from 6’6” 115 Ltr Fanatic Sky Sup to 5’4” 95 ltr Sky Wing. It’s made all the difference. Except for the knee start which is a little more difficult, the board is so much looser, and easy to switch foot and jibe. Wish I had dropped down sooner, as now I know a bigger board was holding me back from progressing and improving.
Glad you made the switch, and if you are anything like me, you should improve with every session
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I made a drop in board size too over Presidents Day weekend in Hatteras. It was a fun trip and I had the place to myself, literally. I demoed several Quattro wing boards and ended up on the 5'4" @ 90 L. My current board is a 5'4" @ 110 L. I weight about 110 kg but with my full 5/4 suit w/booties/gloves probably pushing 115+ kg. The 90 L board was a sinker for me for sure but I was able to get going using a new technique I discovered several months ago. I have never seen this method used in videos or described and it was actually pretty easy even in shallow water on a sinker board. I plan to make a video on how it's done. It's quick and slick!! Having a demo center available was an eye opener on what is possible with board size. I think I could have even rode the 80 L Quattro with this technique but didn't demo that one. It's fun riding smaller boards!! Congrats to all making a drop down in board size.
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Nice! I dropped to 5' fanatic sky copy last summer, but didn't get enough days on it to get it dialed in. Water starting was enough of a hassle that I found I was tentative about doing anything that risked coming off foil. So for winter's unpredictable winds, I've gone back to ol' reliable....6.10 sup foil, 115L.
Spring is coming, soon time to get back on the program. Looking forward to playing around with smaller boards.
I am also excited to try again with the sinker board experiment....more and more first-hand reports of mere mortals accomplishing this, and more "how to" videos to follow. The way it's evolving I suspect it may be like windsurfing, where in a short period of time most intermediate plus riders switched from uphauling big slalom boards to low volume wave boards. The water start unlocked it. But not for all riders or all spots ... need some skills, need lots of wind, and need enough waves to bother. Similar for winging. It will be interesting to see how it plays out. I surf foil a medium size board....40L ish. I am considering trying it on my kite foil (20L ish)...if going sinker, go full sinker I reckon.
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I surf foil a medium size board....40L ish. I am considering trying it on my kite foil (20L ish)...if going sinker, go full sinker I reckon.
I'm riding a 34L board which is -30 and I can't see any benefit for going much smaller unless you're really chasing the last %. I think the shape of the board as well as the volume really helps to determine ease of getting up and foiling. My 34L is a 5'3, so quite big for its size which I reckon gives it more underwater stability in getting ready but also importantly, when I stand up it doesn't immediately sink underneath me. This board is relatively straightforward to get up and foiling (I'm no pro!) as long as there is enough wind to bring the board to the surface - that is the critical point. If I can get to the surface, then I'm away, so there's no point in making that step super hard by going smaller than you need to. It's really physical if you're on the low end of the wind range, because you have to pump the wing to get to the surface and then start your normal pumping routine to get foiling so double the effort!
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I surf foil a medium size board....40L ish. I am considering trying it on my kite foil (20L ish)...if going sinker, go full sinker I reckon.
I'm riding a 34L board which is -30 and I can't see any benefit for going much smaller unless you're really chasing the last %. I think the shape of the board as well as the volume really helps to determine ease of getting up and foiling. My 34L is a 5'3, so quite big for its size which I reckon gives it more underwater stability in getting ready but also importantly, when I stand up it doesn't immediately sink underneath me. This board is relatively straightforward to get up and foiling (I'm no pro!) as long as there is enough wind to bring the board to the surface - that is the critical point. If I can get to the surface, then I'm away, so there's no point in making that step super hard by going smaller than you need to. It's really physical if you're on the low end of the wind range, because you have to pump the wing to get to the surface and then start your normal pumping routine to get foiling so double the effort!
Thanks for advice! I tried it briefly last summer, but was challenged in getting my larger surf foilboard to sink. It was only a foot or so under water, which felt too floaty to get stable with the wing. What I was wondering about is maybe a lower volume board may actually be easier, if it's sunk deeper it would be more stable, just requires more wind to get out of the hole (and I only intend to try this in high wind). You agree?
I saw a video recently of a guy riding what looked to be a 4' board, thin profile ... which is what got me thinking about it.
When pumping my 6.10 in swells, it feels like surf foiling ... just with a massive board. Sure would be nice to mirror surf foiling directly.
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Thanks for advice! I tried it briefly last summer, but was challenged in getting my larger surf foilboard to sink. It was only a foot or so under water, which felt too floaty to get stable with the wing. What I was wondering about is maybe a lower volume board may actually be easier, if it's sunk deeper it would be more stable, just requires more wind to get out of the hole (and I only intend to try this in high wind). You agree?
I saw a video recently of a guy riding what looked to be a 4' board, thin profile ... which is what got me thinking about it.
When pumping my 6.10 in swells, it feels like surf foiling ... just with a massive board. Sure would be nice to mirror surf foiling directly.
There is definitely a balance between ease of getting ready and ease of getting foiling because what goes down must come back up! A smaller board will feel easier to sink and get ready on but will be harder to get foiling on (unless really windy!) And even when it is windy unless I'm really confident in the forecast I will manage my exposure to a potential long swim. On my 5m and Veloce L (1300) the lulls need to be more than 15 knots to be confident that I'll be able to get foiling, so will stay close to the launch spot if the breeze starts to drop. Fortunately when up, nearly everything is easier, so gybes are really reliable and it's not too stressful if the breeze drop a bit and I'm a bit further away. It's unlikely that it'll shut off so quickly that I can't get home!
One thing that surprised me when I started riding the small board is how familiar it felt using the same foil. Yes there's a noticeable difference but on my kit the difference between boards (5'3 Flint 95L, and 5'3 34L Catch) was about the same as swapping between my 1600 and 1300 foil on my Flint, so not game changing. I have a theory about why that was but probably for a different post... What I'm wondering is when I replace the Flint with something about my body weight volume wise, is how often I'll break out the 34L board.
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One thing that surprised me when I started riding the small board is how familiar it felt using the same foil. Yes there's a noticeable difference but on my kit the difference between boards (5'3 Flint 95L, and 5'3 34L Catch) was about the same as swapping between my 1600 and 1300 foil on my Flint, so not game changing. I have a theory about why that was but probably for a different post... What I'm wondering is when I replace the Flint with something about my body weight volume wise, is how often I'll break out the 34L board.
Good advice about managing the swim. The big board is a key advantage to winging over kiting, if the wind dies or gear breaks, I can easily paddle in. Less so if using my 20L kite foilboard! So there's that to consider.
Interesting your Flint and Catch are same length but nearly 3x volume. Assume it is both wider and thicker? I am in the midst of an experiment for surf foil, in going shorter and narrower but thicker (4.4x19x4.25 vs 5x20x3). Goal is paddle-able by a 50 year old mortal in a 5mm wetsuit, but gains benefits of shorter. Yet TBD if it works, though initial test seems positive...it floats me as well as my longer wider board. Overall, I suspect the new board may actually have more volume.
But back to winging, I am unsure how this new board may fit in the quiver. It'll be too small to knee start, but too floaty to be a full-sinker ... seems like it may be kinda in-between and work for neither benefit.
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I made a drop in board size too over Presidents Day weekend in Hatteras. It was a fun trip and I had the place to myself, literally. I demoed several Quattro wing boards and ended up on the 5'4" @ 90 L. My current board is a 5'4" @ 110 L. I weight about 110 kg but with my full 5/4 suit w/booties/gloves probably pushing 115+ kg. The 90 L board was a sinker for me for sure but I was able to get going using a new technique I discovered several months ago. I have never seen this method used in videos or described and it was actually pretty easy even in shallow water on a sinker board. I plan to make a video on how it's done. It's quick and slick!! Having a demo center available was an eye opener on what is possible with board size. I think I could have even rode the 80 L Quattro with this technique but didn't demo that one. It's fun riding smaller boards!! Congrats to all making a drop down in board size.
Hey cnksi, I'll be interested to see if you are doing what I've been doing also. I have a 5'0 SkyWing, 75 lt and I weigh ~93-95kg in full rubber, boots, hood, so close to your -20 lt to weight ratio. At that length and volume it's not a sinker for me, but it's a b$#$ch to get on to knee start, especially in very light wind. I cannot just mount the board on my knees with the wing floating beside me. My method has to be done quick to get to knee start and balanced on board with wing overhead. The steps are literally done as fast as possible 3-4 seconds or you're stuck in unstable no balance no mans land!
1. I'm in water next to board, I hold my wing in front hand on the handle that I prefer to wing with (2 back) with forearm resting on deck of board near front straps.
2. Still holding wing in front hand, push up onto board with my front elbow/forearm and back hand/forearm, the front hand has to draw the wing over my head to windward while i get my chest up onto board. I'm also getting my front leg/knee sliding into position, while simultaneously getting back knee onto board.
3. Almost immediately, once I've slid knees into position and semi sprawled under wing on the board, I quickly reach for back handle and immediately power up the wing to be able to use it for balance and finalize/stabilize my knee start position.
4. Once I'm in classic knee start position with wing powered up overhead, it's all normal from there and doable.
Clear as mud from my description! I've been doing this since last summer when I got the board as I found it was the only way to ever get up and going for me. I do it in all conditions, big wind swell, big wind (35+) and on the lightest end as possible (10 ish? to get to knees then stay that way till gust to get to feet and fly). I've tried to explain it, but there's no comparison to seeing it done, never seen anyone do it online in video, and I've never had it video'd Something to do some day I guess. I suspect your board may be a tad easier as it's longer and wider, but I'm sure still sketchy at your float to weight ratio. Anyway, very interested to hear/see what it is you're doing! Cheers and happy winging!
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Interesting your Flint and Catch are same length but nearly 3x volume. Assume it is both wider and thicker? I am in the midst of an experiment for surf foil, in going shorter and narrower but thicker (4.4x19x4.25 vs 5x20x3). Goal is paddle-able by a 50 year old mortal in a 5mm wetsuit, but gains benefits of shorter. Yet TBD if it works, though initial test seems positive...it floats me as well as my longer wider board. Overall, I suspect the new board may actually have more volume.
But back to winging, I am unsure how this new board may fit in the quiver. It'll be too small to knee start, but too floaty to be a full-sinker ... seems like it may be kinda in-between and work for neither benefit.
The Catch was Gong's surf/kite crossover board (now discontinued) and it's 5'3 by 18.5" which I think works here because the length helps the nose come to the surface easily and is very stable once on the surface, and the narrow width is a joy once up and flying because you have so much room to the water when carving hard turns. It was a bit of a fluke that I own this board, but been very happy at the ease of use for winging. The Flint is actually 5'6 (5'3 was a typo!) x 26.
I think your new board might find its place. You might very well work out a way to get it knee started, if you can lean on the wing to get settled and get some forward motion to stabilise things before standing.
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Hey cnksi, I'll be interested to see if you are doing what I've been doing also. I have a 5'0 SkyWing, 75 lt and I weigh ~93-95kg in full rubber, boots, hood, so close to your -20 lt to weight ratio. At that length and volume it's not a sinker for me, but it's a b$#$ch to get on to knee start, especially in very light wind. I cannot just mount the board on my knees with the wing floating beside me. My method has to be done quick to get to knee start and balanced on board with wing overhead. The steps are literally done as fast as possible 3-4 seconds or you're stuck in unstable no balance no mans land!
Hey Rob: I have a DIY version of same board, though I'm lighter than you....75kg-ish without the 5mm wetsuit. Just paddling the board without a wing, are you able to pop up to your knees? Is it a balance issue or is it sinking? [I first experimented with smaller boards on a buddy's surf foil. So tippy, I would often take 10 tries before I could get up.....and so by comparison, the Sky felt easy ;-) ]
I am able to pop up onto my knees, holding top handle and leading edge on water surface -- like a tripod. Hold that position until feel stable and a good gust, then a quick lift over head and away we go. But there's 2 seconds in between that it's touch n go, may tip and fall off. And maybe over and over. I've considered experimenting with a mini boom that sticks out above wing leading edge, so the move to getting it overhead doesn't have that 2 second pause....immediately get wind in it once lifted.
Dunno if that might help?
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Juand, I use the leading edge handle (front hand) and front strut handle (back hand) to get moving and stable. I can move back once I’m stable and moving. This allows me almost no lag since my front hand is on the LE handle while holding stable. Not powerful but moving.
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Nice! I dropped to 5' fanatic sky copy last summer, but didn't get enough days on it to get it dialed in. Water starting was enough of a hassle that I found I was tentative about doing anything that risked coming off foil. So for winter's unpredictable winds, I've gone back to ol' reliable....6.10 sup foil, 115L.
Spring is coming, soon time to get back on the program. Looking forward to playing around with smaller boards.
I am also excited to try again with the sinker board experiment....more and more first-hand reports of mere mortals accomplishing this, and more "how to" videos to follow. The way it's evolving I suspect it may be like windsurfing, where in a short period of time most intermediate plus riders switched from uphauling big slalom boards to low volume wave boards. The water start unlocked it. But not for all riders or all spots ... need some skills, need lots of wind, and need enough waves to bother. Similar for winging. It will be interesting to see how it plays out. I surf foil a medium size board....40L ish. I am considering trying it on my kite foil (20L ish)...if going sinker, go full sinker I reckon.
Hi,
I have been playing with different options. For me the advantage of a small board is that you can water start fast, WHEN SUFFICIENT POWERED.
Let's say something like a 5m wing in 20-25 Knt or a 4 m in 30 knt. In those winds you can go directly for a normal windsurf waterstart.
Look at the video, I hope it helps. (44 litres- 82 kg rider)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g0etT71d6AM
In any case, I'm waiting for a 55 litres and a 88 litres soon.
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Great video...I’ve water started for years of windsurfing, so if I did drop to an even smaller board than my 95 liter, water starting should feel somewhat familiar. Will obviously have to add foot straps.
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Hey cnksi, I'll be interested to see if you are doing what I've been doing also. I have a 5'0 SkyWing, 75 lt and I weigh ~93-95kg in full rubber, boots, hood, so close to your -20 lt to weight ratio. At that length and volume it's not a sinker for me, but it's a b$#$ch to get on to knee start, especially in very light wind. I cannot just mount the board on my knees with the wing floating beside me. My method has to be done quick to get to knee start and balanced on board with wing overhead. The steps are literally done as fast as possible 3-4 seconds or you're stuck in unstable no balance no mans land!
Hey Rob: I have a DIY version of same board, though I'm lighter than you....75kg-ish without the 5mm wetsuit. Just paddling the board without a wing, are you able to pop up to your knees? Is it a balance issue or is it sinking? [I first experimented with smaller boards on a buddy's surf foil. So tippy, I would often take 10 tries before I could get up.....and so by comparison, the Sky felt easy ;-)
Hey Juan, I've tried your method a few times and could never get it to work. The board deck is barely above water, and it's so tippy fore/aft + side/side in those moments trying to get the wing from beside the board to overhead without any wing pressure to stabilize against. What I'm doing works for me now in all conditions, but I'm game to try waterstarts if windy enough, and to also work on the traditional knee start method you're describing. See you on the water!
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I made a drop in board size too over Presidents Day weekend in Hatteras. It was a fun trip and I had the place to myself, literally. I demoed several Quattro wing boards and ended up on the 5'4" @ 90 L. My current board is a 5'4" @ 110 L. I weight about 110 kg but with my full 5/4 suit w/booties/gloves probably pushing 115+ kg. The 90 L board was a sinker for me for sure but I was able to get going using a new technique I discovered several months ago. I have never seen this method used in videos or described and it was actually pretty easy even in shallow water on a sinker board. I plan to make a video on how it's done. It's quick and slick!! Having a demo center available was an eye opener on what is possible with board size. I think I could have even rode the 80 L Quattro with this technique but didn't demo that one. It's fun riding smaller boards!! Congrats to all making a drop down in board size.
Hey cnksi, I'll be interested to see if you are doing what I've been doing also. I have a 5'0 SkyWing, 75 lt and I weigh ~93-95kg in full rubber, boots, hood, so close to your -20 lt to weight ratio. At that length and volume it's not a sinker for me, but it's a b$#$ch to get on to knee start, especially in very light wind. I cannot just mount the board on my knees with the wing floating beside me. My method has to be done quick to get to knee start and balanced on board with wing overhead. The steps are literally done as fast as possible 3-4 seconds or you're stuck in unstable no balance no mans land!
1. I'm in water next to board, I hold my wing in front hand on the handle that I prefer to wing with (2 back) with forearm resting on deck of board near front straps.
2. Still holding wing in front hand, push up onto board with my front elbow/forearm and back hand/forearm, the front hand has to draw the wing over my head to windward while i get my chest up onto board. I'm also getting my front leg/knee sliding into position, while simultaneously getting back knee onto board.
3. Almost immediately, once I've slid knees into position and semi sprawled under wing on the board, I quickly reach for back handle and immediately power up the wing to be able to use it for balance and finalize/stabilize my knee start position.
4. Once I'm in classic knee start position with wing powered up overhead, it's all normal from there and doable.
Clear as mud from my description! I've been doing this since last summer when I got the board as I found it was the only way to ever get up and going for me. I do it in all conditions, big wind swell, big wind (35+) and on the lightest end as possible (10 ish? to get to knees then stay that way till gust to get to feet and fly). I've tried to explain it, but there's no comparison to seeing it done, never seen anyone do it online in video, and I've never had it video'd Something to do some day I guess. I suspect your board may be a tad easier as it's longer and wider, but I'm sure still sketchy at your float to weight ratio. Anyway, very interested to hear/see what it is you're doing! Cheers and happy winging!
RobM- YES YES YES!!! Almost identical to what you are doing. I will try to simplify my method:
1) I put the wing up on the board holding onto the front handle I will be using while riding (not LE handle).
2) I then climb up onto the board on my stomach in prone surf paddle position still holding the handle on top the board with the wing over the top of me (it helps that I am on the Duo Unit with dihedral so the upper half of the wing isn't resting directly on me. The lower half is flat on the water much like in my picture I posted above).
3) I then simultaneously push down on the board with my front hand (still holding the wing handle on the nose of the board) and my back hand (which is free and close to the rail about mid board or maybe a little more towards the tail) and quickly pop up onto my knees keeping my head and shoulders low. As soon as I am on my knees I quickly raise the wing and grab the back handle (everything soon stabilizes).
4) Now I am in classic knee start position with wing powered up overhead. It's all normal from there and doable!!!
This method is so quick and easy!! I too cannot mount a sinker board onto my knees with the wing floating beside me. Tried and failed many many times. A sink start seems too hard, slow and obviously need deeper water. I ride strapless so a waterstart is pretty much out of the question, and I'm almost positive I could never pull off Alan Cadiz's sit start. Very cool RobM that we are doing the same thing. It seems so intuitive. Should we name it? Quick start? Wingover start? The Stinkbug start? :-)
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I have to try this, and Stinkbug sounds great IMHO , La Cucaracha would also be legit :).
I have a Gong Matata EPS 5 foot (40l) that is really hard to knee start.
It floats too little but too much for my 75kg... it is a lot of stress on my worn knees and if i screw up the balancing bit it shoots up into the wing.
Once up it rides super sweet as it is very light,this technique may be just what i needed.
Thx for posting!.
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RobM- YES YES YES!!! Almost identical to what you are doing. ...
This method is so quick and easy!! I too cannot mount a sinker board onto my knees with the wing floating beside me. Tried and failed many many times. A sink start seems too hard, slow and obviously need deeper water. I ride strapless so a waterstart is pretty much out of the question, and I'm almost positive I could never pull off Alan Cadiz's sit start. Very cool RobM that we are doing the same thing. It seems so intuitive. Should we name it? Quick start? Wingover start? The Stinkbug start? :-)
Cnski- my wing twin brother! Hilarious, that we have both come up with the identical method out of necessity ;D. The Stinkbug works, I just had to look at a picture, and that probably resembles me splayed out on the board under my wing! I was also thinking a "deadman" like in a crime scene outline!
Same as you, no way I could do the Cadiz start from sitting position straddling the board, I'm not that flexible, numerous fails.
@Dontsink, same the unbalanced board often results in water to air missile into wing ;)
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OK folks and brother RobM below is a video clip of me showcasing the winging Quickstart, Stinkbug, La Cucaracha or Deadman start. Name still to be determined. I am riding my 110 L board. I don't have a small board yet but it is ordered.
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OK folks and brother RobM below is a video clip of me showcasing the winging Quickstart, Stinkbug, La Cucaracha or Deadman start. Name still to be determined. I am riding my 110 L board. I don't have a small board yet but it is ordered.
Great, looks super quick!
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At my 65kgs, I tried my bigger 37 liter prone for the first time. Wind starting dropping of course and the sea state was very choppy. The Stinkbug was the only method that got me to my feet, but just not enough wind to get going.
Funny enough, after 20-30 minutes of practicing, knowing there wasn't enough wind, I looked to the shore and there was a full array of first responders, including a full on fire truck, ambulance, park police, city police and who else knows. I realized they were there for me when I saw them all lined up looking at me with binoculars. I gave them the pat on the head and thumbs up and they all shrugged and left. When I came in, this lady came up and apologized. Said she had seen me out before and I 'was never struggling in the water so much' so she called 911 to report 'a windsurfer in distress'. ;D
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VB, I have felt that way myself lol. In fact, “windsurfer in distress” is probably the best description of learning anything new on a wing. Haha
Stink bug innovators, am I seeing right that unlike the method JuanD and I are using, in your version the front handle is in your upwind hand? I have to try this as even when I see it on video it seems strange. But as the vid shows, it’s really effective. A buddy just got a 4’6” x 23.5” wingboard and this may be the only way we get that one going.
Thanks
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Surfcowboy- Your front hand is your front riding hand which rests on the board with you laying under it. You use the front hand to push down on the nose of the board and quickly pop up to your knees. It works so well and is quick. One of these days I’ll try to get a better video of it but it’s pretty simple.
VB- Glad you tried it out just need to a bit more wind it sounds like!!
-Jason
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Cnski - I had a thought when I was trying the stinkbug. When laying prone and getting to your knees, do you think it would be beneficial to try adding a short pigtail to the rear handle with a few knots it (maybe 16” long and elastic)? This would allow you to have some power in the wing and allow for even quicker rear handle grab? I may give it a go next time out.
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Surfcowboy- Your front hand is your front riding hand which rests on the board with you laying under it. You use the front hand to push down on the nose of the board and quickly pop up to your knees. It works so well and is quick. One of these days I’ll try to get a better video of it but it’s pretty simple.
VB- Glad you tried it out just need to a bit more wind it sounds like!!
-Jason
You should make a new thread titled "Stinkbug Starting Technique".
So everybody could read it,it is kind of buried here and it deserves a big spotlight :)
I think it is a gamechanger for small boards and for any board in chalenging conditions like big chop or waves.Quicker and easier than anything else.
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wow, definitely interested in this new technique
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Yes it should probably have it's own thread since it's a new starting technique. It's been a game changer for me for sure.
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Yeah, I think you're right - Davy Jones Start
Does this work in light winds also ?
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Yes it totally works in light winds.
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At my 65kgs, I tried my bigger 37 liter prone for the first time. Wind starting dropping of course and the sea state was very choppy. The Stinkbug was the only method that got me to my feet, but just not enough wind to get going.
Funny enough, after 20-30 minutes of practicing, knowing there wasn't enough wind, I looked to the shore and there was a full array of first responders, including a full on fire truck, ambulance, park police, city police and who else knows. I realized they were there for me when I saw them all lined up looking at me with binoculars. I gave them the pat on the head and thumbs up and they all shrugged and left. When I came in, this lady came up and apologized. Said she had seen me out before and I 'was never struggling in the water so much' so she called 911 to report 'a windsurfer in distress'. ;D
This is funny! I was in West Maui over a year ago trying to wing and was greeted by the Hawaiian Water Patrol on a jet ski who said someone thought I was drowning and called 911. He asked where my strings were. He warned me of the mob of firemen waiting for me at the beach. Sure enough there were 10 firemen at my condo who were really interested in what I was trying to do. I was a bit surprised that non of them had seen wing foiling before. I also had a 911 call on me at my local urban spot where I was greeted on shore by a fire truck and policeman. I must look like I really know what I am doing!!!
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At my 65kgs, I tried my bigger 37 liter prone for the first time. Wind starting dropping of course and the sea state was very choppy. The Stinkbug was the only method that got me to my feet, but just not enough wind to get going.
Funny enough, after 20-30 minutes of practicing, knowing there wasn't enough wind, I looked to the shore and there was a full array of first responders, including a full on fire truck, ambulance, park police, city police and who else knows. I realized they were there for me when I saw them all lined up looking at me with binoculars. I gave them the pat on the head and thumbs up and they all shrugged and left. When I came in, this lady came up and apologized. Said she had seen me out before and I 'was never struggling in the water so much' so she called 911 to report 'a windsurfer in distress'. ;D
This is funny! I was in West Maui over a year ago trying to wing and was greeted by the Hawaiian Water Patrol on a jet ski who said someone thought I was drowning and called 911. He asked where my strings were. He warned me of the mob of firemen waiting for me at the beach. Sure enough there were 10 firemen at my condo who were really interested in what I was trying to do. I was a bit surprised that non of them had seen wing foiling before. I also had a 911 call on me at my local urban spot where I was greeted on shore by a fire truck and policeman. I must look like I really know what I am doing!!!
yup my first go at winging, my buddy and I had a lifeguard paddle almost a mile out to sea to check on us, as we had multiple 911 calls about us. We knew the lifeguard, and as soon as he realized who we were he looked pissed about having had to paddle all the way out to us. We just gave a chuckle, apologized he had to do the long paddle, and slowly slogged our way back to the house.
If you know you're going to be struggling while learning something new, probably a good idea to check in with lifeguards first, and give them a heads up.
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I am 95kg with full suit etc. I am of moderate finesse and atheletic ability. I am wing foiling on 105L (+10L/kg) Quatro WingDrifter Pro for 1y (was on 130L before that). On the 105L, I knee start but cannot balance/slog indefinitely while waiting for wind. If I go to 88L (-7 L/kg), how hard will it be and what method will I need to get up and onto foil.
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I'm curious to get opinions on volume vs. size in terms of downsizing benefits. There are plenty of boards out there that are close to 6' but only ~100ltrs or less, and others that are 120ltrs at 5' (at comparable widths, just more thickness on the smaller board). I'm still learning and on a 5'8"x29" 115ltr Quatro, and while I love the idea of a smaller board for pumping and maneuverability, it seems like going to a significantly lower volume board that is not meaningfully smaller give me a slight reduction in board weight, but also means I can't slog home. On the flip side, I can get a significantly smaller board (in terms of dimensions) with only slightly lower volume and reduce swing weight etc. but still have enough buoyancy for easy starts, slogs, and paddles (I'm about 80kg dry).
Is there a factor I'm missing here?
I'm a water start capable windsurfer, so looking forward to riding a true sinker on high wind days, but my usual conditions are 15kts with significant lulls, so need a lower wind solution for daily use even long term unless I want to do a lot of paddling.
Thanks
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...Funny enough, after 20-30 minutes of practicing, knowing there wasn't enough wind, I looked to the shore and there was a full array of first responders, including a full on fire truck, ambulance, park police, city police and who else knows. I realized they were there for me when I saw them all lined up looking at me with binoculars. I gave them the pat on the head and thumbs up and they all shrugged and left. When I came in, this lady came up and apologized. Said she had seen me out before and I 'was never struggling in the water so much' so she called 911 to report 'a windsurfer in distress'. ;D
I was doing the walk of shame this spring when the wind slacked off and left me down the beach unable to get back upwind. I was zoned out in my own world when I hear this voice saying "Are you all right?". I turned to see a couple guys with local fire dept shirts on and said "what?", not understanding what they were asking me. He says they got a call about someone in distress and were checking to see if I was OK. I laughed and apologized for interrupting their day and kept going on my walk. Spectators should chill out and watch for a while before they panic and call 911.
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I started this thread when I dropped from 115L to takuma tk 85L.
Today I dropped to takuma tk65L, I'm 77kg and it was a great start today, easy to start doing the stink bug start and gybes were effortless. Only had 30 mins before wind dropped, whereas I could have slogged in on my 85l, the 65l needs a bit of pressure in the wing to slog at water level. But overall, board was really easy to pump on foil and ride, I'll keep the 85l for light/gusty days but the moment there's enough wind I'll be on the 65L.
Mike
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A lot of the advantages of going smaller have changed with new design. I recently dropped board volume from 105L to 75L, and weigh 90 kgs for reference. With the new board, longer tracks make a huge difference. I have the 5'2" Armstrong FG, and ride comfortably with my front foot is not far from the nose of the board. It's fun to ride in good winds, not as fun in lite winds. If you prefer not to have a sinker , probably body weight +10 makes most sense.
I'm curious to get opinions on volume vs. size in terms of downsizing benefits. There are plenty of boards out there that are close to 6' but only ~100ltrs or less, and others that are 120ltrs at 5' (at comparable widths, just more thickness on the smaller board). I'm still learning and on a 5'8"x29" 115ltr Quatro, and while I love the idea of a smaller board for pumping and maneuverability, it seems like going to a significantly lower volume board that is not meaningfully smaller give me a slight reduction in board weight, but also means I can't slog home. On the flip side, I can get a significantly smaller board (in terms of dimensions) with only slightly lower volume and reduce swing weight etc. but still have enough buoyancy for easy starts, slogs, and paddles (I'm about 80kg dry).
Is there a factor I'm missing here?
I'm a water start capable windsurfer, so looking forward to riding a true sinker on high wind days, but my usual conditions are 15kts with significant lulls, so need a lower wind solution for daily use even long term unless I want to do a lot of paddling.
Thanks
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I am 95kg with full suit etc. I am of moderate finesse and atheletic ability. I am wing foiling on 105L (+10L/kg) Quatro WingDrifter Pro for 1y (was on 130L before that). On the 105L, I knee start but cannot balance/slog indefinitely while waiting for wind. If I go to 88L (-7 L/kg), how hard will it be and what method will I need to get up and onto foil.
I'm just a hair lighter than you (90kg no gear) and I just went for 125l to 90l. I suspect your experience will be more of less the same except that minimum amount of forward momentum to stand will increase. You will not be able to stand with no wind period. And, you will be a little more challenged to to maintain balance when standing in very light winds. I say go for it if you're into it.
I got to try a 105l board before I picked up the 90l. The difference was small between the two. Basically on the 105l I had a chance of standing in no wind on the 90l I have none. I also get hammered a little harder in the chop because it's a smaller board. In light winds I can still get up and do all the things fine.
The last detail is are you in salt or fresh water? I'm in salt water so my board doesn't actually sink. It's pretty close. I have maybe 1cm of freeboard. But, if you're in freshwater that may make your proposed board submerge a bit.