Standup Zone Forum
The Foil Zone => Wingsurfing, Windfoiling, Wingfoiling, Wing SUP => Topic started by: Wingadinga on January 09, 2021, 12:28:20 AM
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Anyone wing for too long and their arms start hurting?
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In my case the legs and knees will get maxed out before my arms do. In the summer my max daily session might be 3 1/2 hours of riding with a few water breaks in between. Maybe 2 hours max without a break. In a full wetsuit/hood/gloves/booties cut those numbers in half!
Guess I’m one of those riders who never felt the need for a harness to reduce arm fatigue. I was a bit paranoid whether I’d have the strength/stamina since I was starting this sport at 61, so I started doing some wimpy arm/upper body daily quick workouts. I think that helped a lot in addition to my regular swimming/biking routine. Probably also helped that I lost 30# of waistline baggage before I started winging.
On technique, I will always sacrifice a bit of top speed or maxed out upwind angle in order to ride slightly more “depowered” for saving arm (and leg!) strength. Always lots of foot switching to give both arms equal time in the forward position. Never ever ride for long stretches in one stance (I turn constantly). Keep both arms fairly stretched on all points of sail, meaning most of the work in the core and legs. And lastly for me at least, that clunky Duotone boom is always less fatiguing than handles, but I think I’m more the exception with the boom thing. Just personal preference.
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I have really crappy shoulders now. Many past rotator injuries. I can paddle okay with them and was wondering if I ditched the paddle for a wing if it would make it worse. Anyone feel a lot of shoulder pull from extended wing foiling? Anyone with bad shoulders have to stop wing foiling after they started? Thanks.
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I agree with obxDave, the arm muscle it works out most is the leg :). Of all the active sports, I've found winging to offer the greatest benefit to overall muscle and joint strength and flexibility. I liken it to Pilates on water. I'm exhausted after several hours, but I feel great the next morning. No residual muscle or joint pain. The first few weeks struggling with kneestarts can be a bit hard on the knees
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That's exactly what I've been thinking but didn't want to jinx it. I'm dead after a winging session, though I always feel fine right up until I start falling all over the place. I can barely put my stuff away. I have a recurring thought that if I just left it, no one would take it. that might be taking the "hey, it's Hood River" thing a little far though my pump shows up in the lost and found bin a few times a month.
For the rest of the day and the next morning, my knee feels great--unless I spend too much time sitting.
Between the harness and my fake boom, it does nothing to my shoulders (total junk) or arms, in fact, I was watching my biceps and triceps deflate. Paddling more and wingfoiling less (crap wind most days) on this SoCal trip has taken a few wrinkles out of my arms.
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Yes on stiff grunty big wings. I felt super beat up after a couple days on one.
No on the Fone swings.
I liken it to the catch of giant blades on paddles, like the 105 hard catch paddles beat up my shoudlers and elbows, but a 70-80 with a flexy shaft feels great and I can paddle all week...
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I have a flare up of tennis elbow after three straight days of winging. Legs are tired for doing the walk of shame.
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I imagine I am working out my legs and arms although I rarely get tired or sore from a session as long as I have the right size wing. I always sailed with a harness windsurfing, but so far with winging, I have not felt the need for one as neither my arms or shoulders got that tired regardless of the wind strength.
On a session where I rarely wipe out, I can wing forever. If conditions have me falling and flailing, I tire after about 45 minutes. Climbing back on the board after a wipeout takes a lot out of me, but as I improve, there are many fewer wipeouts and I can wing a lot longer.
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Winging for the past 6 months has built up my forearms, biceps, back muscles and burnt a lot of my belly fat 8)
However I've also developed rotator cuff pain on both shoulders :'( would love to hear experiences on how to build up those and reduce it.
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I could ride forever without a harness. Was surprised this was so. Arms never got tired. Eventually tendons in the elbow became inflamed. That forced me to try a harness to let the tendons heal.
Now with a harness, the legs burn out. Riding with a harness transfers loading to legs and allows me to handle more load in the wing. I ride with higher loading more often, because it’s fun.
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I'm similar to ObxDave, 60 yrs and I do daily quick upper body workout so I can wing for hours with no harness. I do quick dumbbell workouts - 5 sets of 10 reps of: bicep curls; shoulder press (military press); and lateral raises. Takes no more than 10 minutes and has made arm/shoulder strength a non-issue and I can wing for 3+ hours (with short breaks). I originally started this for winging, I think it really helps and it has become side benefit of just generally being much stronger/fitter. I absolutely loath gym work, but with the short 10 minute work out and goal being fit to wing, it works for me!
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54, I get a bicep pump due to my bad form, I’m sure. The better you get, the less effort it takes for sure. I still get a little sore in my upper mid back but again that’s when I’m slogging a lot in low wind and can’t get on foil. Foiling takes no pull.
Knees were beat like Chan said at first from lots of knee starts. Now I’m not there long enough to worry.
My hands and forearms get the worst of it like DW. I’m starting to stretch more and I ice them after but long term that’s probably the hardest part.
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Learning stage was intense ... so fatigued after an hour I could barely hang on ... nice thing about winging is its easy to rest on the beach in between go's (versus kiting where it's a big hassle to land and relaunch). But after a while, seems you build up some strength and learn how to economize movement, not so much an issue as long as doing it consistently.
When overpowered, eg 6m above 18kt, I find it can be quite painful on my lat muscle on the sheeting in arm. The big ozone is a beast and I think it actually pushes the limit of power I can physically handle. I have found a harness really helps for long reaches, hook in, lean back, just use arms to steer. Then unhook when into the turning or wave riding. But leads to some more challenging wipeouts too.
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I can relate to what you all are saying.
I am only about 3 and a half months into winging but have noticed that my body is coping better with the increased stresses as my technique has improved. Kitefoiling seems low load bearing by comparison due to harness use.
The only part that concerns me a bit is my hands, slight swelling of the main finger joints. Admittedly, this is after a number of sessions in a row and may come down to overuse of an older body. I have not found any way of preventing it from happening but it does not really bother me when I am on the water. I try not to do really long hauls upwind.
At this stage, I do not use straps or a harness.
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Here are some exercises I use to reduce shoulder and elbow pain:
https://youtu.be/RAZKed5QfJ4
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I can relate to what you all are saying.
I am only about 3 and a half months into winging but have noticed that my body is coping better with the increased stresses as my technique has improved. Kitefoiling seems low load bearing by comparison due to harness use.
The only part that concerns me a bit is my hands, slight swelling of the main finger joints. Admittedly, this is after a number of sessions in a row and may come down to overuse of an older body. I have not found any way of preventing it from happening but it does not really bother me when I am on the water. I try not to do really long hauls upwind.
At this stage, I do not use straps or a harness.
I am having trigger finger problems,never had them windsurfing.
My lef index got swollen at the second joint,it would hurt and lock up when straightening with popping noises.
Now i have been landlocked for 20 days and it is getting better slowly.
I am 49 and i thought it was arthritis but now i am not so sure.
I think holding soft curved handles for long sessions in cold (13C) water are causing this.
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I am having trigger finger problems,never had them windsurfing.
My lef index got swollen at the second joint,it would hurt and lock up when straightening with popping noises.
Now i have been landlocked for 20 days and it is getting better slowly.
I am 49 and i thought it was arthritis but now i am not so sure.
I think holding soft curved handles for long sessions in cold (13C) water are causing this.
Yes, you're right. The soft handles make you close your hands to control them--people close their hands in a death grip. And of course you didn't have a problem windsurfing, you used a harness. Anyone past the kook level controls a windsurfer with their fingertips. I started having trouble with my fingers windsurfing many years ago and a doc who does hand surgery (carpal tunnel, trigger finger, etc) told me to get rid of the boom grip and learn to use just the second two joints of my fingers control and hold the boom. the same doc did my carpal tunnel surgery years later after a zillion hours of pounding keyboards.
I honestly don't get why anyone with a wing that has floppy handles doesn't do a fake boom and set up a harness. If I wasn't using those two devices my hands would ache every night. With them, no problem at all. My hands feel great. One look at my hands would tell anyone that I should have all kinds of problems. I don't.
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Well, i have used a harness almost since day one,as an ex windsurfer it felt common sense to let body weight and a string do the boring work.
Now using a belt leash and plastic NSI like DIY hook ,really good setup.
I am not using a fake boom...yet.I think it will help too.
Carbon tubes are on the way Ponobill :)
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Good, I can't guarantee that it will solve all your hand problems but at least you'll have a fighting chance, and it makes transitions easier too. I tried to do an upwind-downwinder yesterday morning in light air. I got to just past the hatchery when the wind shut off like someone flipped a switch (I think the problem was that Greg Leion got in range of Hood River--the power of the Black Snake is in this one). I held the boom in the middle with one arm, braced with the other arm, and spinnaker-ed back to the event center. No fun, but infinitely better than the alternatives. Some people might be able to do that without a fake boom, but I can't.