Standup Zone Forum
Stand Up Paddle => SUP General => Topic started by: Kip on October 24, 2020, 04:45:11 PM
-
Well, I guess I’m glad I didn’t delete my account after all sorry to any of you who noticed my drunken Jay and Silent bob rap post ... im a moron haha
Anyways, I have a PVC blend board and noticed this crack in it today.
I can’t recall bumping it against anything. It is probable that I whacked it with my paddle on a 30+mph downwind day.
I also have another little crack in the top from I-don’t-know-what.
I generally carry it in bag, have dakine pads, and try to be careful during transport.
I haven’t noticed any water getting in or any additional weight, but applied a thin layer of epoxy as a precaution (not shown in photo - and doesn’t look awesome, but logic tells me it will seal the crack if there was a risk).
Just wondering how often this happens to you all and what y’all do for maintaining on stuff like this. It’s gonna end up being a spendy sport if I’m dropping 2K + on boards and then they’re getting thrashed the same year!
Thanks in advance. You guys are great.
-
Bumps happen....
I never trust Epoxy alone.... even though it very flexible.
Being a lazy repair guy, I generally just throw a good quality sticker over any minor damage. or you could use Gorilla tape or something similar.
-
My first thought when I saw it was 'sticker or rub tape' but thought it a cheezy suggestion in this highly professional forum ...but, now that Ricky said it.
Besides, how much would you weaken the lamiate to get-onto-it with power tools, dissimilar chemistry, etc ...perhaps only to end up with a barnacle perhaps soon to fall off. Take it to a pro if you consider it terribly precious.
Jim
-
Good to know!
I like the hood sticker idea.
Appreciate the feedback.
-
I've pretty much quit doing traditional repairs after weighing one of my boards after repairing several dings. Three relatively small repairs added a pound. I use aluminum tape for all repairs now, and it doesn't add enough weight to measure the difference, even with a fairly precise three-sensor digital scale. If you use a credit card to burnish the tape flat and use two layers it's pretty much a permanent repair. Not pretty--unless you like shiny stuff--but effective.
-
I've pretty much quit doing traditional repairs after weighing one of my boards after repairing several dings. Three relatively small repairs added a pound. I use aluminum tape for all repairs now, and it doesn't add enough weight to measure the difference, even with a fairly precise three-sensor digital scale. If you use a credit card to burnish the tape flat and use two layers it's pretty much a permanent repair. Not pretty--unless you like shiny stuff--but effective.
Any specific brand or product? Thank you Pono.
If it is not resin then....
-
I don't think the crack goes through the PVC. It would be a more torn apart looking break if it actually went into the PVC. I've seen this recently on an epoxy longboard that I pickup for free, but the fin box needed to be replaced. I gave it to Kernel to have fun with. The whole deck had these long stress cracks about 3 to 4 inches long. They run in the rail to rail direction and they were in in groups of 3 or 4 spaced about 1/2" apart. Like the board had been flexed beyond it's limit and the hot coat cracked. The board had a ton of them but didn't appear to have taken on water.
Kernel has already been out surfing it.
You could sand it, and just throw a little epoxy and glass over it. You'll never see it.
-
. It’s gonna end up being a spendy sport if I’m dropping 2K + on boards and then they’re getting thrashed the same year!
[/quote]
That’s not thrashed lol. Ask me and Pono for some pics of our gear. I purposely didn’t finish my last board that well just so I could not worry if it got scratched.
But sadly, and ironically the higher end the board, the easier they tend to be to damage. If you’ve ever owned a polyester resin surfboard you know. If not, and if you’re coming from kayaks or canoes then sort of think if you were carrying the hood of your new car around and laying it on a rocky shore or beach. Yeah, it’s almost that bad.
In good news (bad news?) most dings happen in transit and not in the water. But there’s a reason the Shape Shack is a popular board here.
-
. It’s gonna end up being a spendy sport if I’m dropping 2K + on boards and then they’re getting thrashed the same year!
That’s not thrashed lol. Ask me and Pono for some pics of our gear. I purposely didn’t finish my last board that well just so I could not worry if it got scratched.
But sadly, and ironically the higher end the board, the easier they tend to be to damage. If you’ve ever owned a polyester resin surfboard you know. If not, and if you’re coming from kayaks or canoes then sort of think if you were carrying the hood of your new car around and laying it on a rocky shore or beach. Yeah, it’s almost that bad.
In good news (bad news?) most dings happen in transit and not in the water. But there’s a reason the Shape Shack is a popular board here.
[/quote]
Thanks dude !
I’ve never really had experience with water craft or Carbon shit coming from an ultra running background, so There it is! Do little repairs and ride it till I can’t !
P.s. would love to see what thrashed really looks like haha
-
I've pretty much quit doing traditional repairs after weighing one of my boards after repairing several dings. Three relatively small repairs added a pound. I use aluminum tape for all repairs now, and it doesn't add enough weight to measure the difference, even with a fairly precise three-sensor digital scale. If you use a credit card to burnish the tape flat and use two layers it's pretty much a permanent repair. Not pretty--unless you like shiny stuff--but effective.
I like that ! Thanks for the idea man!
-
TallDude,
If I had any idea how to glass or what that even is, I’d totally do it haha ;D
I just did a thin layer of epoxy, put some packing tape over it, let it set, removed the tape, did an ultra fine sanding. Probably gonna rope it with a sticker cause it doesn’t look profesh, but hey! I’m learning. I like PonoBills idea too. I’ll just have to ride this SOB till I break it on a HONKIN’ Downwind day
-
For the small top crack I dabbed a little epoxy, applied some electrical tape, let it set, sanded it down. And then applied this SICK ASS STICKER!
Thanks guys
-
The link is empty.
Yes, Admin gets hives just looking at my boards. I recently applied a neatly trimmed piece of aluminum tape to a leaker ding Chan got in her foilboard. They both looked at me like I had farted loudly. I'm reasonably certain they replaced the board.
-
Let’s see if that works.
One more question for you guys while I have you here (and while I’m screwing up my board 😂 lol).
I was doing this little sticker fix and decided to install another handle and the screws were stripping a bit so I was pushing hard, slipped, the tip of the drill punctured the deck pad and went in maybe 1/4 inch. Pulled the pad back, filled the hole with epoxy and then put the pad back down. Sufficient ? Idk why I’m banging up this board.
-
Sufficient ?
If it leaks, then no.
-
Sufficient ?
If it leaks, then no.
So on something that small, would you just tell it leaks by storing it upside down and checking the small spot on the deck pad for water later ?
Sorry, might seem like obvious questions to you seasoned fellas
-
There's the drive home test on the roof racks and not in a bag. As long as it's sunny, the board will get warm enough for the gas inside to expand. Listen and look for bubbles all around your board. Always works for me. ;)
-
There's the drive home test on the roof racks and not in a bag. As long as it's sunny, the board will get warm enough for the gas inside to expand. Listen and look for bubbles all around your board. Always works for me. ;)
It’ll be sunny again up here in about 5 months so I guess I’ll find out then !
-
Now that I see the brand I have some feedback.
For the first issue this board is made in the Kinetic factory with roughly the same PVC construction as Jimmy Lewis boards. I had a few JL boards but my last one was a JL Rail. That one was amazingly light but any time I hit it hard it would dent or dent and crack. I dented and cracked the top with my paddle blade. Which was like your first issue and that fix with epoxy and sticker should be fine but keep in mind another hit may go into the second layer and require a much better fix. That JL Rail board eventually got a huge crack on the side from a large wave that hit the board and pushed it into the paddle. That needed a full rebuild of the inner layer and PVC and outer layer. The second puncture may have issues in the future, as you definitely went into the EPS, so I would keep an eye on that one.
I also had a 2018 Inifinity Whiplash dugout and that was made in the same Kinetic factory but single layer construction. That was not light but was very durable. I fell on the deck a few times and barely dented that one and hits to the side were no issue. These definitely would have cracked the Rail. Personally I think that putting all of the weight into a thicker single layer has its benefits for durability but if the outside is hit and cracks then the EPS is exposed and will start sucking in water so that is where the PVC sandwich has some other benefits other than added stiffness with less weight.
-
SUPSimcoe,
Thanks for sharing man!
So I’ve seen the diagrams, but help me understand this construction. Is it:
Thin layer of paint
Thin layer of carbon
Then layer of PVC
Then foam
?
Kickin myself about the drill slip, but what are ya gonna do ? Stuff happens.
-
Guess I don’t totally know what sandwich means.
Also didn’t realize there was bamboo in there !
Would be cool to see a video of something being made in that factory.
-
The intent of sandwich construction is to make something stronger and stiffer for the same or less weight. It doesn't HAVE to be lighter, and the outer layer doesn't have to be thin, but it can be. It's like a girder vs. a solid bar of steel. The girder is much stiffer for the same weight of material. Or better yet, maybe line an aluminum clad honeycomb sheet vs a sheet of aluminum twice the thickness of the cladding. You can bend the plain aluminum sheet easily, but the honeycomb sheet is rigid.
Jimmy chose to make the Rail as light as it could be and still be structurally rigid. That means the cladding on the sandwich (the inner and outer skin) is thin. A crack through the outer skin won't fill the board with water because PVC is closed cell, but it can introduce enough water to create a delamination over time.
Most (maybe all) production windsurf boards are sandwich construction because they have to be much stronger than a surfboard. But they are also very tough because the outer skin is thick. You can, and some folks do, make a very rigid sandwich board with a single layer of glass, then PVC, then a single layer of glass. I had a downwind board that used veil as the inner and outer layer--that's about the equivilent of 1/2 oz fabric, where most surfboards would use at least one layer of 6oz and one or two of 4oz. The board was super rigid because the PVC was 3/8" instead of 1/4" or 1/8", but if you set it down on pebbles any sharp ones would go right through the skin. It's sitting behind my shop covered in dust.
-
I also had a 2018 Inifinity Whiplash dugout and that was made in the same Kinetic factory but single layer construction. That was not light but was very durable.
I've got the 2019 Dugout Whip in 21" and it's definitely lighter than the 23" PVC blackfish (not sure by how much; haven't weighed). It also seems way more durable. Possibly the construction ? Then again the I only take the whiplash out on flat and mildly textured days, but I take the Blackfish out when it's freakin' HONKIN'
-
The intent of sandwich construction is to make something stronger and stiffer for the same or less weight. It doesn't HAVE to be lighter, and the outer layer doesn't have to be thin, but it can be. It's like a girder vs. a solid bar of steel. The girder is much stiffer for the same weight of material. Or better yet, maybe line an aluminum clad honeycomb sheet vs a sheet of aluminum twice the thickness of the cladding. You can bend the plain aluminum sheet easily, but the honeycomb sheet is rigid.
Jimmy chose to make the Rail as light as it could be and still be structurally rigid. That means the cladding on the sandwich (the inner and outer skin) is thin. A crack through the outer skin won't fill the board with water because PVC is closed cell, but it can introduce enough water to create a delamination over time.
Most (maybe all) production windsurf boards are sandwich construction because they have to be much stronger than a surfboard. But they are also very tough because the outer skin is thick. You can, and some folks do, make a very rigid sandwich board with a single layer of glass, then PVC, then a single layer of glass. I had a downwind board that used veil as the inner and outer layer--that's about the equivilent of 1/2 oz fabric, where most surfboards would use at least one layer of 6oz and one or two of 4oz. The board was super rigid because the PVC was 3/8" instead of 1/4" or 1/8", but if you set it down on pebbles any sharp ones would go right through the skin. It's sitting behind my shop covered in dust.
Thanks for this explanation Pono!
I guess I really should've peeled that pad back more and looked closer to see if the ouncture got to the foam, but all I can do now is keep my fingers crossed it was superficial and that the combo of the hole filled with epoxy and the deck pad epoxied over it keeps the water out.
Thanks again! This was helpful.
-
To be frank , I still do not understand the construction on the Naish Maliko 2020 and up. It says carbon sandwich but I still fail to see where the sandwich is.
All I see is:
Paint Layer
Carbon Layer
Glass Layer
To me a sandwich should require at least three layers of material i.e. excluding paint obviously
-
To be frank , I still do not understand the construction on the Naish Maliko 2020 and up. It says carbon sandwich but I still fail to see where the sandwich is.
All I see is:
Paint Layer
Carbon Layer
Glass Layer
To me a sandwich should require at least three layers of material i.e. excluding paint obviously
Wood is the sandwiched material
-
Wood is the sandwiched material
Yes but that is only on the standing area.....
-
Wood is the sandwiched material
Yes but that is only on the standing area.....
Well carbon doesn’t mean all carbon either. Marketing.
Innegra doesn’t mean all Innegra, the list goes on.
Plus manufacturers tint epoxy black to fake you out
-
Well carbon doesn’t mean all carbon either. Marketing.
Innegra doesn’t mean all Innegra, the list goes on.
Plus manufacturers tint epoxy black to fake you out
SOB! The more you know ...
-
This was neat for a newbie like me:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5JoIRJbOMs
Also was headed pick up a lightly used Downtown dugout in a couple weeks for $1500, but might consider a Rail if I can find one.
-
This was neat for a newbie like me:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5JoIRJbOMs
Also was headed pick up a lightly used Downtown dugout in a couple weeks for $1500, but might consider a Rail if I can find one.
3:27 "Nobody that's doing bamboo boards is doing a layer of glass on both sides." <-Incorrect. Even in standard construction, Blue planet boards use 2x 4oz.-bamboo-1x4oz. on the deck and 4oz.-bamboo-4oz. on the bottom. This in addition to extra glass, carbon, and Kevlar in high stress areas, and PU cartridges under the fin boxes, leash plugs, handle, etc.
https://www.blueplanetsurf.com/service/board-constructions/ (https://www.blueplanetsurf.com/service/board-constructions/)
-
Blue Planet is well known to those of us on the Zone, and their boards are excellent, but AFAIK they are only sold by Blue Planet. What Jimmy didn't say is that a bamboo sandwich, where the bamboo is essentially veneer thickness, doesn't equal a PVC sandwich for stiffness. Like any girder design, more distance between layers means greater stiffness. For my goofy Foil module idea I did a test sandwich with 6 oz carbon on both sides of a 4" thick piece of PVC (expensive!!!). I thought that making the PVC into a box, with carbon on the edges as well, would be a lot stiffer than just the PVC with a carbon layer top and bottom. I still think it would be, but my test was inconclusive since i couldn't stack enough weight on the test piece to deflect it in either configuration. 40 pounds (all I could fit) didn't deflect either version in any measurable way.