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The Foil Zone => Foil SUP => Topic started by: jondrums on October 18, 2020, 03:17:10 PM

Title: GoFoil: amazing wings with crappy tails
Post by: jondrums on October 18, 2020, 03:17:10 PM
GoFoil, you need to step up your game with respect to tails.  I own 3 generations of GoFoil tails (a few copies of each actually),  and have tinkered relentlessly to get the performance I want.  Each major iteration has been a big step up, but even the latest stuff could be a lot better.   I just put Kane's 15" tail on and everything came alive for me.  You suddenly notice everything wrong with the 14.5" flip-tip tail when your eyes are opened to something better.

I started with the blue Maliko tail.  Cutting that down was a revelation and really changed the way I surfed.  Then came the 18N and 18W, which were both a big step up from the Maliko in terms of drag reduction and smoothness of lift - especially a cut down 18W.  Then the short pedestal and the 14.5" flip-tip - pretty crappy build quality on both, but I forgave that when I rode it.   Turns got a lot more locked in and I couldn't believe I ever even liked the cut down 18W.

Putting on Kane's tail is arguably one of the biggest gear step up I've experienced since going from IWA to GL.  I felt like a hero today, turns were tighter than ever, pumping smoother, and the lift profile across the speed range is superb.  Not really great conditions either, so I know it was the gear.  I literally breached the foil and I could feel it skipping across the surface before dropping back down and keeping going ???!!??

All that work GoFoil is putting into front wings, you owe it to put some time into the tails.  I was fiercely brand loyal since the very first surf foiling wings they put out, but this makes me question whether the brand is slipping.  Or maybe tails and wings will go the way of fins and boards - mix and match to find your sweet spot.
Title: Re: GoFoil: amazing wings with crappy tails
Post by: Beasho on October 18, 2020, 04:04:59 PM
Pictures Please.  Where do you get the Kane tails and did you have to modify?
Title: Re: GoFoil: amazing wings with crappy tails
Post by: gzasinets on October 18, 2020, 05:46:23 PM
@Beasho
https://www.onofoil.com/parts
Title: Re: GoFoil: amazing wings with crappy tails
Post by: Hdip on October 18, 2020, 07:42:40 PM
Pictures Please.  Where do you get the Kane tails and did you have to modify?

Go to the source. Custom tails made out of G10 on Maui.

https://www.instagram.com/kdmaui/
Title: Re: GoFoil: amazing wings with crappy tails
Post by: jondrums on October 18, 2020, 08:44:51 PM
it seems you can only get them on instagram from @KDMaui
It is very nicely made out of G10 with a gentle curve and a fairly fine entry and exit cross-section
was a bit more expensive than the gofoil tails

I never know how to link to instagram, try this for some photos
https://www.instagram.com/stories/highlights/17875994281845847/
Title: Re: GoFoil: amazing wings with crappy tails
Post by: jondrums on October 18, 2020, 08:47:19 PM
I shimmed to get the same angle as I had prior with the flip-tip tail.   I need to get one of those fancy angle measurement devices and I'll post up what angle works for me.  I tried to make one out of wood and it works decent but not quite precise enough for my liking. 
Title: Re: GoFoil: amazing wings with crappy tails
Post by: steamroller on October 18, 2020, 09:06:23 PM
i dont know if any of you guys seen the newest AXIS 420 tail yet but...daaammmmmm!...that sucker looks FASSSST...like they took it off one of those RedBull Air Race Planes and stuck it  on their foil!
Title: Re: GoFoil: amazing wings with crappy tails
Post by: Beasho on October 19, 2020, 07:18:03 AM
i dont know if any of you guys seen the newest AXIS 420 tail yet but...daaammmmmm!...that sucker looks FASSSST...like they took it off one of those RedBull Air Race Planes and stuck it  on their foil!

Guys really! 

If there isn't a picture or video it doesn't exist.  Steamroller knows this.  Otherwise no one would believe the planing 360.

Here is the 420.
from: https://axisfoils.com/collections/all-sup/products/s-series-carbon-rear-wing-420mm

Title: Re: GoFoil: amazing wings with crappy tails
Post by: Beasho on October 19, 2020, 07:23:14 AM
Kane tail here.

Interesting but another $300!!!! 

These wings are piling up fast. What should I do with my Kai wing and 24" mast????
Title: Re: GoFoil: amazing wings with crappy tails
Post by: jondrums on October 19, 2020, 11:27:49 AM
no, that's not it Beasho
(https://i.imgur.com/ZPjXQ11.png)
Title: Re: GoFoil: amazing wings with crappy tails
Post by: 805StandUp on October 19, 2020, 11:30:29 AM
Nice, Jon!  I read about the tail on some of Dommo's posts to FB and on the Breeze and couldn't find out too much about them except the Signature versions.  Looks super sleek! 
Title: Re: GoFoil: amazing wings with crappy tails
Post by: red_tx on October 19, 2020, 03:38:38 PM
Jon, thanks for the post here. I believe you.
What Kane tail wing did you get? (Size)

Does it require a GoFoil tail pedestal? I am still running the original mast with my blue tail hack job.
-red
Title: Re: GoFoil: amazing wings with crappy tails
Post by: Velasco on October 19, 2020, 07:39:11 PM
Make your own!

https://lifeamphibious.blogspot.com/2020/10/batch-no-2-all-pau.html

Personally I think the G10 has a complimentary flex to it that none of the carbon fiber tails have.  It may be a slight detriment if you are just pumping in flatwater, but in the surf it is just like using a flex fin on a surfboard.
Title: Re: GoFoil: amazing wings with crappy tails
Post by: jondrums on October 19, 2020, 09:14:42 PM
At the time I ordered, he only had a 15" although I probably would have picked the 14" if he had one. 
Title: Re: GoFoil: amazing wings with crappy tails
Post by: Beasho on October 20, 2020, 07:20:18 AM
no, that's not it Beasho ........

Are you all just going to keep teasing????

Where is the buy button?
  Does Google sell these things or is there some sort of underground speakeasy on Instagram with requisite hand shake and eye wink?
Title: Re: GoFoil: amazing wings with crappy tails
Post by: jondrums on October 20, 2020, 08:11:34 AM
yes, pretty much. 
Title: Re: GoFoil: amazing wings with crappy tails
Post by: Hdip on October 20, 2020, 08:29:28 AM
Pictures Please.  Where do you get the Kane tails and did you have to modify?

Go to the source. Custom tails made out of G10 on Maui.

https://www.instagram.com/kdmaui/

Sorry I guess I didn't make it clear. You have to direct message him on Instagram. Or you can email him if you find his email on Foilfeed. Here is a post there that will link you to his email.

He does not have a website or webstore. It's just him. KaneDW on foilfeed. He replies very quickly. I'm close to buying his front and back wings. Just haven't pulled the trigger yet.

https://www.foilfeed.net/forums/topic/kane-tail-with-gl-140/#post-9132
Title: Re: GoFoil: amazing wings with crappy tails
Post by: clay on October 20, 2020, 11:50:41 AM
Are there any after market/knock off fuses being made that fit gofoil front wings?

I'm interested in buying gofoil front wings but unwilling to invest in a whole setup, especially since I already a bunch of masts, fuses, and tails.

I don't believe closed proprietary wing mounts are good for anyone, especially tail wings - having bolt patterns that are slightly different isn't good for anyone.

Another thing, since getting into wing foiling I've noticed some of the "new" tails coming out have been on older wind and kite foils for years.
Title: Re: GoFoil: amazing wings with crappy tails
Post by: Thatspec on October 20, 2020, 12:13:45 PM
Clay, you could try Jim Stringfellow for something custom. OBX Dave has had him make some interesting adapters like Moses fuse to Gong front wing (very similar to Go Foil). A Gong Alu fuse is about 57 Euro (plus shipping :o ) and would be an easy mod to Go Foil as the Gong Square taper is slightly smaller and shorter.

jim@jimstringfellow.com
Title: Re: GoFoil: amazing wings with crappy tails
Post by: juandesooka on October 20, 2020, 01:00:07 PM
If you are considering DIY options for GoFoil tails ... here's what I came up with for a home-made connector.  I have been playing around with making front wings for a while. The connector is made by putting tuck tape on the fuselage, then mold release, then a layer of cloth/resin, knock it off the fuselage, then build it up with cloth/carbon, resin, then glass it in place on the wing.  [technique thanks to Clamsmasha]

Same process for the stabilizer, but with one bolt hole for the gofoil fuselage screw-in, and then a second behind it using a 1/4" rivnut. This gives a nice solid connection.

I seem to have lucked out, in that my bolt holes line up perfect with my new-to-me zeeko spitfire. All 3 stabs  fit, so I have given up on diy stab construction for the moment, testing these out instead. So far, the XLW is my favourite, the regular is tiny and super loose, the XXLW not yet tried out, quite big.

I did some prior DIY experiments making wings from G10 for my stringy kite-foil.  The holes don't line up for the go-foil, so I may make another fuselage connector to try these out too.  And perhaps I will also play around with adding some height for a pedestal, to get it out of the wash from the front wing.

Side note: as Clay says above, it is interesting to see the high aspect surf foil designs circling back to kite foils.  I started kite foiling back in 2013ish, when race foiling was all the rage. I got laughed at for my clunky low aspect carafino and then later on for my large surface area stringy set up ... slow comparatively.  Then surf foils came along and changed everything, with big low aspect foils, going slow with tiny kites.  I still get laughed at, but now for my impossibly small low profile stringy/spitfire wings.  And now in surf foils, you are basically a caveman if you are still riding kai/iwa/maliko range...full circle!  I am hopeful that with the next level NL wings released, some of you early adopters may sell me your abandoned GL wings cheap.   ;D
Title: Re: GoFoil: amazing wings with crappy tails
Post by: surfcowboy on October 20, 2020, 06:51:37 PM
Canada, yes, amen to picking up last gen gear. Thankful for the innovators for the deals.

About your mount, you mentioned tuck tape first. Why do you do that before the mold release and doesnít that make it too loose or does it not matter? Iíd love a link if Clam ever did a build thread. I love his chop shop stuff.
Title: Re: GoFoil: amazing wings with crappy tails
Post by: juandesooka on October 20, 2020, 07:33:12 PM
Canada, yes, amen to picking up last gen gear. Thankful for the innovators for the deals.

About your mount, you mentioned tuck tape first. Why do you do that before the mold release and doesnít that make it too loose or does it not matter? Iíd love a link if Clam ever did a build thread. I love his chop shop stuff.

Tuck tape...I think that is to help ensure it releases.  So thin that I don't think it have any impact on fit (but duct tape would be too thick)(just realized tuck tape may be Canadian only...same as tyvek tape or venture sheating tape...very thin and shiny, for air barrier in house building). Oh yeah, you need to fill the screw hole flat too...butyl tape or playdoh, something like that.

Getting the mold off brought some intense moments, when it wouldn't release, and me figuring I destroyed my $$$ gofoil, haha.  Clam's tip was to fibreglass a lip on it, then cut a plywood jig that goes over fuselage, so you can hammer on it to get it off.  But that didn't work...I ended up cutting it down the middle very carefully, slipping it off, reapplying mold release, then doing the top again....came off easy when just one side is epoxied.  <phew>

I don't recall a build thread, but will look around, he may have sent me some photos too.

Title: Re: GoFoil: amazing wings with crappy tails
Post by: jondrums on October 20, 2020, 08:49:22 PM
The great Clamsmasha showed his tail mounting method here:
https://forum.surfer.com/index.php?threads/refuckulation-thread.221065/post-3063970

I bought some M6 helicoils and am threatening to ditch the gofoil pedestal system altogether.    I should be able to shorten up the fuse a little bit too.  More fiddling around...
Title: Re: GoFoil: amazing wings with crappy tails
Post by: Califoilia (formerly - SanoSlatchSup) on October 21, 2020, 10:31:15 AM
Or you can go the much easier route where you already have plenty of nice tails to choose from...
(https://i.imgur.com/QaUoQEd.jpg)
...and 4 great lengths of fuselages to interchange them with...
(https://i.imgur.com/2HwozfU.png?2)
Problem solved. ;) :D
Title: Re: GoFoil: amazing wings with crappy tails
Post by: red_tx on October 21, 2020, 12:09:09 PM
The great Clamsmasha showed his tail mounting method here:
https://forum.surfer.com/index.php?threads/refuckulation-thread.221065/post-3063970

I bought some M6 helicoils and am threatening to ditch the gofoil pedestal system altogether.    I should be able to shorten up the fuse a little bit too.  More fiddling around...

Jon, I am also considering this route. Let me know what you come up with. Id just assume skip the "pedestal".
-red
Title: Re: GoFoil: amazing wings with crappy tails
Post by: 805StandUp on October 21, 2020, 05:28:19 PM
Or you can go the much easier route where you already have plenty of nice tails to choose from...

Problem solved. ;) :D

Don't want to hijack Jon's thread SanO but did you ever do a comparison between the GLs you used to ride and the Axis 900/910 that you now use?
Title: Re: GoFoil: amazing wings with crappy tails
Post by: Califoilia (formerly - SanoSlatchSup) on October 21, 2020, 06:31:37 PM
Don't want to hijack Jon's thread SanO but did you ever do a comparison between the GLs you used to ride and the Axis 900/910 that you now use?
Not directly only in some replies in other discussions (kinda like here :) ), but to keep it short here...love the stiffness of the Axis aluminum mast/fuse over the CF of the GF, and love the anhedral of the Axis 900 while still maintaining a higher aspect over the GL180 of similar size (same with the S-1000 compared to the GL210) that allows it to turn/surf so much better.

If I had to give a nod to the GL180/18W in anything over the 900/390, I'd have to say that it might pump slightly better, but then again I'm not much into trying to pump back out to connect waves, and in regular pumping to just stay on a wave, and the regular glide is/was very similar in both.
Title: Re: GoFoil: amazing wings with crappy tails
Post by: 805StandUp on October 22, 2020, 12:33:08 PM

Not directly only in some replies in other discussions (kinda like here :) ), but to keep it short here...love the stiffness of the Axis aluminum mast/fuse over the CF of the GF, and love the anhedral of the Axis 900 while still maintaining a higher aspect over the GL180 of similar size (same with the S-1000 compared to the GL210) that allows it to turn/surf so much better.

If I had to give a nod to the GL180/18W in anything over the 900/390, I'd have to say that it might pump slightly better, but then again I'm not much into trying to pump back out to connect waves, and in regular pumping to just stay on a wave, and the regular glide is/was very similar in both.

Thanks.  I can see how an anhedral would help it turn better and may explain why my buddy likes the HA wings from Axis but not Go Foil.  I bet the different tail options on Axis probably helped with this too.  The shorter pedestal and new tails that I don't think was available when you were on GF also helped the GL carve way better too and this KDMaui tail seems like another huge step up in performance.
Title: Re: GoFoil: amazing wings with crappy tails
Post by: jondrums on October 30, 2020, 12:35:55 PM
Coupla new learnings - maybe this could save y'all some time experimenting.

I originally mounted my Kane tail at just over 1.5deg and was super happy.  I didn't want to touch it because it was such an improvement over the flip tip and figured I nailed it.  Then I decided to experiment as usually happens...  I moved it to 1deg and promptly paddled quarter of a mile out to mushroom rock without any tools (hi Beasho).  That wasn't to my liking at all - it kept wanting to stall and turns didn't feel locked in.  Kind of ruined the session, but oh well.

I've arrived at my latest favorite setting (*until I start messing around again, I guess).

I drilled and heli-coiled a new hole in the fuse to direct mount the tail.  15 minute job being careful to measure thrice and drill twice :D  -  this moves the tail up 30mm versus the short pedestal.   It turns out the angle of the taper on the fuse puts the tail at almost exactly 2deg up versus the front wing.  So, what-the-hell I'll just direct mount with no shims.

Oh-My-God!  this fixed all the issues and surpassed the 1.5deg setting.  Yes - 0.5deg makes an immediately noticeable difference.  Low speed pumping is back in play - the low speed stall threshold moved significantly.  Glide is no worse but turns got much more locked in and pumping is easier.  Done

Probably a mix of shortening the fuse and increasing the angle, but from the feel, I think the angle is most of it.
Title: Re: GoFoil: amazing wings with crappy tails
Post by: jondrums on October 30, 2020, 04:43:29 PM
I am becoming more and more convinced that GoFoil (and lyft) inadvertently set us back by a few years because of their concept of fully moulded tails.  The whole concept is fundamentally flawed - adjusting pitch and position are so important.    The original Maliko and Kai tail offered zero adjustment short of getting out the grinder.   I don't really blame them - how could we have known at the time - but some of the other brands got it right from the beginning.  At least now most brands have transitioned to the 2xM6 at 30mm standard.   Tails are going the way of fins and are best customized by the owner.
Title: Re: GoFoil: amazing wings with crappy tails
Post by: Dwight (DW) on October 30, 2020, 05:48:18 PM
I am becoming more and more convinced that GoFoil (and lyft) inadvertently set us back by a few years because of their concept of fully moulded tails.  The whole concept is fundamentally flawed - adjusting pitch and position are so important.    The original Maliko and Kai tail offered zero adjustment short of getting out the grinder.   I don't really blame them - how could we have known at the time - but some of the other brands got it right from the beginning.  At least now most brands have transitioned to the 2xM6 at 30mm standard.   Tails are going the way of fins and are best customized by the owner.

Agree with you on Lift. None of the their HA wings felt right to me with ANY of their tails.

Then just today on the podcast, FoilWizard was the guest, and said, Lift is designed to be back foot heavy weighted. Thatís friggin nuts. I would have fixed mine with a better tail....instead I sold them.
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