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The Foil Zone => Wingsurfing, Windfoiling, Wingfoiling, Wing SUP => Topic started by: Keys Sup on October 04, 2020, 01:53:49 PM

Title: Wind Speed for Kneeling Stage
Post by: Keys Sup on October 04, 2020, 01:53:49 PM
Working on the kneeling stage. Wind 10-12, did not cut it. It seems you need to have enough wind to fill the wing to go upwind. So will 15-17 work? Thinking it should be 7.0 windsurf sail wind.
Grabbing the wing where DW showed me when there is wind pushes the board upwind. Just need wind.
Grabbed some knee pads and my knees are loving it!
Low tide this time so less workable area to use.
Title: Re: Wind Speed for Kneeling Stage
Post by: surfcowboy on October 04, 2020, 07:08:31 PM
I might not sure but Iíll bet you are dang close to no longer needing to kneel.

Howís it going? Thereís wind in the forecast for the weekend. Iím determined to stay upwind on foil. Hereís to the determined beginners.
Title: Re: Wind Speed for Kneeling Stage
Post by: Admin on October 05, 2020, 02:26:12 AM
Hi Keys,

It is really hard to do anything when the wind is too light.  If the wing won't hold itself up (when you need to push up on it to keep it in place) you are going to struggle.  10-12 is definitely possible.  How heavy are you?  What wing size and board are you using?  Foil underneath?
Title: Re: Wind Speed for Kneeling Stage
Post by: Keys Sup on October 05, 2020, 05:26:19 AM
Admin, 210#, Blue Planet Easy Foiler 7'6" 144lt with your old Axis 1020 and Naish S25 6.0. Noticed in windsurfing at this weight have to use bigger sails then before.
Tuesday wind is predicted to be 21mph and Wednesday 20-24. Tuesday looks like the day to go upwind and stand up too!
Title: Re: Wind Speed for Kneeling Stage
Post by: Admin on October 05, 2020, 05:50:09 AM
Nice.  Really light wings are a lot more manageable when the wind is vey light.  They float themselves more easily and can provide a little drive.  You will be fine in 12-15.  Have fun on those windier days coming up!
Title: Re: Wind Speed for Kneeling Stage
Post by: Keys Sup on October 05, 2020, 07:10:22 AM
Thanks Admin. Had one day 13-17 and it was great except had wrong hand position.
Title: Re: Wind Speed for Kneeling Stage
Post by: PonoBill on October 05, 2020, 07:26:14 AM
10-12 is fine if you're standing and your wing is very light, but it has to be a very steady wind (meaning no lulls, though gusts are good) to do much with it, and I need a strong gust if I'm going to get up on the foil. When you're on your knees the wing is necessarily luffed, and you need a substantial amount of wind to keep it flying.
Title: Re: Wind Speed for Kneeling Stage
Post by: Dwight (DW) on October 05, 2020, 09:30:17 AM
Beginners need WIND in Florida. There is no Gorge current adding power to your wing. Our current takes power away.

Just stick to windy days and save yourself the headache until youíre very good.

I have a 210# buddy who needed 20 and a 6m to get on foil and he was an very good kite foiler. He just couldnít figure out the skills of pumping a foil and wing for a very long time. Today he rides in 12. Kiters are spoiled by the power of sine flying a kite. No skill needed, just dive the kite.
Title: Re: Wind Speed for Kneeling Stage
Post by: WHS on October 05, 2020, 10:10:13 AM
Getting the right wind speed is my biggest frustration. Only been able to try twice in the 10-20 range; once standing on sup and then once on knees on foil board. I am hesitant (afraid) to try when it's really blowing (20+). As a beginner seams foolish to go out in really challenging and possibly dangerous conditions. But then trying to ease into it in lighter wind was really hard. The more the wind came up, definitely easier it was. It's hard to think of really strong wind being ok beginner conditions. Makes learning very frustrating.
Title: Re: Wind Speed for Kneeling Stage
Post by: Keys Sup on October 05, 2020, 10:57:02 AM
DW has a point with the wind. I think I'll save the frustration till I learn and use higher wind.
WHS luckily the wind will blow me into the shoreline. Have to watch the tides too.
Tuesday and Wednesday is looking good for Key Largo. could probably go windsurfing but want to learn to ride the foil board with wing.
Looking forward to after learning and being able to use my 7.2 on lighter days.
Title: Re: Wind Speed for Kneeling Stage
Post by: TonyGring on October 05, 2020, 01:49:22 PM
Been a while since posting here.  Windsurfed '84-2000 ( three years of that in Maui )
Began kiting in 2000 ( quickly sold all windsurf gear )
Kite foiling last 6 years pretty much exclusively unless it's well above 20 , then sometimes strapped surfboard for wave riding and boosting.
Three years now using a SUP foil board to ride surf ( no Kite )
This  August I Got a 6m F One Swing ( and quickly ordered a 5m & 4.2m ) and started the learning process.
I live near Santa Barbara/ Ventura. In the past two months I've used each of the wings multiple times.
All skills from aforementioned activities have a component to winging.
The biggest thing I've learned so far is that you have to have enough wind for your weight and gear used.
I weigh 155 , use a 95L 5'8'' board with a Lift 200 Surf Foil ( same as I ride on waves with no wind )
In my opinion it's always better to err on being overpowered when choosing what wing to ride.
With regard to wind on the wing, It is far better to Spill it than Fill it.
If the wind gets lighter after going out, be patient and wait for a gust before trying to pump up on foil.
I wore myself out completely a few times before figuring ( and being told ) this out.
Most importantly,  keep at it and make sure your gear suits your weight.  Proficiency will come with time on the water.
For the record,  I'm completely stoked on winging as are many of my friends in my area.
Title: Re: Wind Speed for Kneeling Stage
Post by: surfcowboy on October 05, 2020, 05:14:13 PM
Tony, hope to see you out and about in the Ventura area. Blue board, orange wing, black impact west, long beard, permanent smile when on the water.
Title: Re: Wind Speed for Kneeling Stage
Post by: Wetstuff on October 06, 2020, 06:15:39 AM
As a kiter, I would sit out 'shiny water' waiting for it to get 'gray with some lines' and could ghost along, actively flying the kite.  It took small whitecaps before I could relax and cruise.  (I often changed the size ratio differential of kite and board.)

C'hit!   I've been spending waaaay too much time on my knees - or standing in the shallows.  G-D, these wings are a lot harder to milk 'something' out of versus a kite.  In the last month the only time it blew enough would have had me in open fetch with zero easy walkouts. 

The box should read: 'Patience Required' ...or, 'Quit whining and relocate.'

Jim
Title: Re: Wind Speed for Kneeling Stage
Post by: TonyGring on October 06, 2020, 10:25:17 AM
Tony, hope to see you out and about in the Ventura area. Blue board, orange wing, black impact west, long beard, permanent smile when on the water.

Must be my lost twin....

I ride blue board , all my wings are orange , long white beard........

I'm at  Emma a lot or ,   C St. if there's  not many surfers to threaten....
Title: Re: Wind Speed for Kneeling Stage
Post by: Keys Sup on October 06, 2020, 04:47:01 PM
Pono took your advice and started standing up. Way more upwind capibility. Did not make every stand up attempt.LOL. Should have practiced getting up on my bad side at the cable park but it was easier then I thought.
Probably 15-17 with unsteady wind ( Florida Keys usual winds ).
Unfortunately by the time I stand up I'm almost out of runway. High tide helped making the runway bigger. Definately need wing to be powered to make any of this happen just like DW mentioned.
When the wing tip dives towards the water I read a post that mentioned push, pull up or down in or out with rear hand, maybe front hand? What is the action to keep the tip out of the water? Or is it more wind with no lulls?
Title: Re: Wind Speed for Kneeling Stage
Post by: surfcowboy on October 06, 2020, 06:39:37 PM
Tony we have to have a deal. Neither of us can be jerks in the water or else the other guy might get punched in the parking lot for something the other did. If it happens to you I owe you lunch lol. ďThat damn guy with the beard and the orange wing...Ē

Keys, glad you are standing. And yes, running out of room is why you learn to get up fast lol. Itís the reward. I figured that out quick. Same for getting on foil. You are close now. If youíre standing, all you need is wind.

As to keeping the tip up, you will learn to instinctively push your front arm up and out. Yes, wind in the wing helps. It gets heavy. And yes, being on foil helps. This sport actually gets easier and less strenuous once you learn to do it, unlike a lot of other sports.

And yes to what was said, you need wind and if youíre not in a windy place, you need patience. Iím going to get 2 days a month if Iím lucky where I am now and with my work schedule. But those days are fun for sure. Trips to FL, TX, and HI will be on my list now more than ever.
Title: Re: Wind Speed for Kneeling Stage
Post by: Keys Sup on October 06, 2020, 07:39:49 PM
Thanks Surfcowboy. Going to one day off a week so I feel your pain. The wind doesn't like to cooperate on the one day.
Title: Re: Wind Speed for Kneeling Stage
Post by: Keys Sup on October 07, 2020, 11:18:23 AM
15-17.Started out good standing up and got 2 lifts but was so stunned didn't push my front foot down. From there it was all down hill. Wait for a gust stand up and wing tip catches the water over and over. I think the wind was dropping after I started. Progression!!!
 The wind takes me to the rocks so I run out of room.
Title: Re: Wind Speed for Kneeling Stage
Post by: Keys Sup on October 07, 2020, 11:20:04 AM
This is the guard rail and rocks I climb over to get to the water. Also added more scratches to 1020 sliding over a coral rock.
Title: Re: Wind Speed for Kneeling Stage
Post by: PonoBill on October 07, 2020, 08:52:15 PM
The nice thing about scratches is that they hide other scratches. I tried to explain this to Admin and Chan after one of them, I'm not saying who but her name begins with "C", came in a little hot yesterday and got a little scratch on an otherwise flawless wing. I could see that none of my demonstration of the camouflage benefits of having foil wings that look like chew toys for a pit bull was actually having the desired effect. They will have a new wing on the way shortly. Stand by, you'll be able to buy a nearly new Axis 760 for half price in about a week.
Title: Re: Wind Speed for Kneeling Stage
Post by: Keys Sup on October 08, 2020, 05:31:04 AM
Plus the scratches help keep the water from sticking to the foil making you faster.
Title: Re: Wind Speed for Kneeling Stage
Post by: surfcowboy on October 08, 2020, 07:51:18 AM
Nice to hear you got up man!! Itíll come fast now. I did the same thing, 2 short hops where I breached and then the next session it clicked.

And yeah, scratches just show youíre trying. ;)
Title: Re: Wind Speed for Kneeling Stage
Post by: Fishman on October 10, 2020, 07:51:20 PM
Tony we have to have a deal. Neither of us can be jerks in the water or else the other guy might get punched in the parking lot for something the other did. If it happens to you I owe you lunch lol. ďThat damn guy with the beard and the orange wing...Ē

Keys, glad you are standing. And yes, running out of room is why you learn to get up fast lol. Itís the reward. I figured that out quick. Same for getting on foil. You are close now. If youíre standing, all you need is wind.

As to keeping the tip up, you will learn to instinctively push your front arm up and out. Yes, wind in the wing helps. It gets heavy. And yes, being on foil helps. This sport actually gets easier and less strenuous once you learn to do it, unlike a lot of other sports.

And yes to what was said, you need wind and if youíre not in a windy place, you need patience. Iím going to get 2 days a month if Iím lucky where I am now and with my work schedule. But those days are fun for sure. Trips to FL, TX, and HI will be on my list now more than ever.

Cowboy, aren't you in southern California?

My learning curve has been a slow-go also. So far this year the lake here in Atlanta has wind about 2 times a month. The hardest thing for me with zero wind sport experience, was tackling the going upwind thing. Oh my goodness that was a big hurdle which took me all year to finally get right (especially not on foil).

 Typically the wind here is like 9MPH average with 25mph gusts. So i go out with a 7m and wait on your knees for enough wind to get going,  then at some point you wish you had a smaller wing, then a little while longer I can find myself wondering if i'll have enough wind or have to paddle just to get back in, LOL. Never the less the journey is fun and interesting. I'm looking forward to some short Florida trips just to find out how steady type wind works out.

 Ps. The knee pad suggestion made by FLkiter was gold for me. Thanks for that FLkiter

Title: Re: Wind Speed for Kneeling Stage
Post by: surfcowboy on October 11, 2020, 04:49:02 AM
Fishman, yeah, I was talking to TonyG who is up where I go for wind (Ventura, SoCal. Not to be confused with Ventana MX)

I got sucked into taking the wing out where I was today in maybe 10mph instead of driving north to where there was wind. Damn it! Foiled again lol. At least I had a buddy with an efoil who graciously towed me back upwind and saved me a few hundred yards of walking.
Title: Re: Wind Speed for Kneeling Stage
Post by: Keys Sup on October 11, 2020, 08:18:48 AM
Fishman, Stay away from the Florida Keys if yopu are looking for steady wind!
Title: Re: Wind Speed for Kneeling Stage
Post by: obxDave on October 11, 2020, 11:17:54 AM
Fishman, Stay away from the Florida Keys if yopu are looking for steady wind!
Is that just the fall youíre referring too?  I always felt the winter months gave pretty steady pre and post frontal winds, at least compared to the OBX. The launches were always pretty sketchy but I discovered Cocoa Plum beach in Marathon this last trip. Have you tried it? Pretty decent side-on E-SE wind for mid March. I kite foiled and wing foiled there and it was great. Easy beach and a bit more room to work with before having to turn. They had just closed the beach while we were there and I had to launch from the boat towards the end

Title: Re: Wind Speed for Kneeling Stage
Post by: Keys Sup on October 11, 2020, 02:32:32 PM
Have not been to the OBX. Maybe some North Easters are close to steady but for me it is mostly gusting with holes when I am windsurfing.
Title: Re: Wind Speed for Kneeling Stage
Post by: obxDave on October 11, 2020, 04:24:32 PM
Have not been to the OBX. Maybe some North Easters are close to steady but for me it is mostly gusting with holes when I am windsurfing.
My feeble advice is that itís totally worth it to travel to an easy launch with a long fetch for the most steady unobstructed wind. That location in your picture looks way tougher to me. But hats off for trying to make it work ;)
Title: Re: Wind Speed for Kneeling Stage
Post by: flkiter on October 11, 2020, 05:20:53 PM
Fishman, Stay away from the Florida Keys if yopu are looking for steady wind!

Maybe not steady if you're on one of the islands but in the back country where we go by boat it's some of the cleanest wind you'll ever ride. Keys is best with North winds but most beaches that becomes off shore in the keys.
Title: Re: Wind Speed for Kneeling Stage
Post by: PonoBill on October 11, 2020, 05:52:44 PM
I feel for you folks, that's some pretty wimpy wind. There's nothing quite like the Gorge--Mother nature's wind machine. Dead flat and rain today, but tomorrow is 17 to 35 at 9:00 AM which means 25 to 45. Hang on to your fucking cojones. Straight west too. It's going to be one of those days. At least I got a day of rest. iWindsurf says early, early in the morning, like 1:00 AM it's going to be 16 to 50. Imagine being out in that. iWindsurf averages, so if they say 50 the peak gusts will be at 60+.

That also means tomorrow will probably be mega-swells. When it's nutty like that in the early morning the whole corridor rings like a bell, and the wind has something to push against all day long. I remember a day a few years ago when it was 30 to 50 at Swell City after a long night blowing triple-nail shingles off roofs. I went for a downwinder on my bullet 17 and had it get blown over my head on faceplants and hit the end of the leash while the board was still in the air--three times.

Even guys with a shitty memory like mine remember those days. Having your ass pucker so hard your farts are dog whistles tends to focus one's attention.
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