Standup Zone Forum

The Foil Zone => Wingsurfing, Windfoiling, Wingfoiling, Wing SUP => Topic started by: winged surfer on September 28, 2020, 01:26:09 PM

Title: 75 lt board vs 40 lt board feeling
Post by: winged surfer on September 28, 2020, 01:26:09 PM
As I progress I jumped from the 106 lt Sky sup board (6Ē3í) to the 75 lt Sky wing board (5Ē0í) Itís such a better feeling to go shorter, lighter and smaller, I improved my riding skill a lot.
Iím wondering if going smaller with a 40 lt board using a sinker one will also upgrade my riding.
Guys more skilled then me that already did that choice can answer me.
I just know it will be almost impossible to go with really light Wind, but except that, will it worth to go smaller?
Thanks!
Title: Re: 75 lt board vs 40 lt board feeling
Post by: Caribsurf on September 28, 2020, 02:32:42 PM
Thanks for posting that. I also own the sky SUP as well as a Jimmy Lewis Flying V and wondering about moving down to a wing specific board
Good to hear that your riding improved after downsizing.  No way i can go to 40 liters but 80-90 for sure
Title: Re: 75 lt board vs 40 lt board feeling
Post by: Phils on September 28, 2020, 03:27:51 PM
There is no doubt that a 40L board will feel and work better than a 75 L board once on foil for the experienced foiler.  It is unclear whether one's overall riding experience will be better due to the challenges of starting a sinker board.
Title: Re: 75 lt board vs 40 lt board feeling
Post by: jondrums on September 28, 2020, 05:27:57 PM
From the perspective of riding the foil, the jump from 75L to 40L will be similar to the jump from 110L-75L (assuming all are made in similar weight construction).  In other words massive.    The reduced swing weight makes a really big difference and is immediately noticeable when riding and especially pumping.  Can't speak to the difference in getting out of the water and getting going
Title: Re: 75 lt board vs 40 lt board feeling
Post by: liv2surf on September 28, 2020, 09:07:14 PM
From the perspective of riding the foil, the jump from 75L to 40L will be similar to the jump from 110L-75L (assuming all are made in similar weight construction).  In other words massive.    The reduced swing weight makes a really big difference and is immediately noticeable when riding and especially pumping.  Can't speak to the difference in getting out of the water and getting going

I'm expect that as impressive are the on foil benefits of going from 75L to 40L, will also be the getting out of the water and getting going disadvantages of going from 75L to 40L. I believe low volume improves performance. I am motivated to get to 95L or 85L from 130L.
Title: Re: 75 lt board vs 40 lt board feeling
Post by: liv2surf on September 28, 2020, 10:13:14 PM
From the perspective of riding the foil, the jump from 75L to 40L will be similar to the jump from 110L-75L (assuming all are made in similar weight construction).  In other words massive.    The reduced swing weight makes a really big difference and is immediately noticeable when riding and especially pumping.  Can't speak to the difference in getting out of the water and getting going

I expect that as impressive are the on-foil benefits of going from 75L to 40L, will also be the 'getting out of the water and getting going' disadvantages of going from 75L to 40L. I am motivated to get to 95L or 85L (not even 75L) from 130L, so take what I say here with a major grain of salt. 
Title: Re: 75 lt board vs 40 lt board feeling
Post by: flkiter on September 29, 2020, 05:55:51 AM
I like my 90 liter for winging more than my 44 liter due to the extra liters helps with the drive of the foil as I pump. Less force needed I feel since the extra liters add swing weight. also if I'm in rougher sea's then it's way easier and quicker to get up on the 90 liter. If I'm going for jumps then 44 liter for sure. Low end is a little better on the 90 liter but 10 mph and I can easily get going on the 44 liter. So my take away is it you want to jump, work on the smaller board water start but if you're just surfing waves then you're not missing out on anything by going 50 liters or less.
Title: Re: 75 lt board vs 40 lt board feeling
Post by: obxDave on September 29, 2020, 11:15:09 PM
I like my 90 liter for winging more than my 44 liter due to the extra liters helps with the drive of the foil as I pump. Less force needed I feel since the extra liters add swing weight. also if I'm in rougher sea's then it's way easier and quicker to get up on the 90 liter. If I'm going for jumps then 44 liter for sure. Low end is a little better on the 90 liter but 10 mph and I can easily get going on the 44 liter. So my take away is it you want to jump, work on the smaller board water start but if you're just surfing waves then you're not missing out on anything by going 50 liters or less.

Nick, have you tried Dwightís 71 or 65 liter boards? Any desire to downsize to either of those boards from your 90?  You and I have the same 90 right now.  At 167# (butt nickked) I have no desire to down size to a sinker. But I am wondering if another 20 liters will still provide the best of both worlds....(?), or wether there just isnít enough difference from the 90 to make it worth giving up another 20-25 liters.  Might just have to head down to Cocoa Beach to take a test drive ::)
Title: Re: 75 lt board vs 40 lt board feeling
Post by: flkiter on September 30, 2020, 02:29:40 AM
I've used Dwight's 105,90,65 and I think 100 in the past. If I was in an area with calmer waters then the 65 would be great but I like going into victory at sea conditions so the extra stability is really appreciated to get going faster in on shore winds and big shore breaks. I've found in the same size board with change of liters, very little change to pump efficiency and swing weight effect. Plus if the winds drop, I can still get in standing on the 90 liter in off shore winds. Florida winds are so up and down and it sucks swimming in on a prone from a few 100 yards off shore. 
Title: Re: 75 lt board vs 40 lt board feeling
Post by: Dwight (DW) on September 30, 2020, 03:45:19 AM
I swear my ability it knee start in near no wind, has never stopped improving. Like learning to water start a windsurfer, it continues to get easier over the first full year of learning the trick.

Getting home standing, not paddling prone, remains my standard for board size.

That number is weight +5 liters for me. If you never screw around in 10 mph wind, Iíd ride weight +0, but would never go negative unless I was age 30 again.
Title: Re: 75 lt board vs 40 lt board feeling
Post by: Admin on September 30, 2020, 04:48:13 AM
Hey winged, did you mention your weight?  Unless you are very lightweight you are going to miss days on a 40 liter board.  I admire and envy the riders on sinkers but I can't imagine using one as an only board. 
Title: Re: 75 lt board vs 40 lt board feeling
Post by: winged surfer on September 30, 2020, 05:02:25 AM
Thanks everybody for sharing their experiences and opinions.
Iím 58 kg.
I will have the chance to try a 40 lt board in the next weeks and I will let you know.
But I think I will have to find a balance between low volume but not sinker since I donít want 2 boards and I donít want to be unsafe if the wind drops with a total sinker.
I think with the right technique my board will be around my weight in liters as Dwight suggested.
Iím so curious to try now the 4í8 Sky Wing 55lt and see if there is a noticeable difference to my 5í0 Sky wing 75lt.
Title: Re: 75 lt board vs 40 lt board feeling
Post by: Admin on September 30, 2020, 05:23:52 AM
Chan uses the Sky Wing 4'8 every day at 115 lbs (52 liters).  You will be able to make it work but once you get negative to weight things get harder while on your knees in rough water.  I am 81 kg and the 75 Sky wing was doable in smooth water but was a PITA in churning swell (Chan preferred the 55 so we sold it).  The 95 is very manageable for me.  I have spent a good amount of time now on other boards at 80 and 85 as well.  Those have been manageable as well but I haven't found one yet that matched the Sky 95 overall (both had way too much rocker). 
Title: Re: 75 lt board vs 40 lt board feeling
Post by: obxDave on September 30, 2020, 09:49:44 AM
I've used Dwight's 105,90,65 and I think 100 in the past. If I was in an area with calmer waters then the 65 would be great but I like going into victory at sea conditions so the extra stability is really appreciated to get going faster in on shore winds and big shore breaks. I've found in the same size board with change of liters, very little change to pump efficiency and swing weight effect. Plus if the winds drop, I can still get in standing on the 90 liter in off shore winds. Florida winds are so up and down and it sucks swimming in on a prone from a few 100 yards off shore.
Ok, cool.  Iím starting to think Iíll just stick with the 90. Iím not always out in crazy conditions, but Iíll ride pretty aggressively so lotís falling and restarts. Plenty of times when the wind drops out and Iím limping home. If I got a 71 L, I wouldnít give up the 90 and that seems kinda silly.
Title: Re: 75 lt board vs 40 lt board feeling
Post by: volcano dweller on September 30, 2020, 10:07:57 AM
All, just want to say "thanks" for the advice on this string..more food for thought. I have Dwight's 82L board and weigh 81kg, so close to neutrally buoyant. I live on Oahu and have been thinking of going down to one of Dwight's 65L or 70L boards, but the trade-off seems questionable. Like FLKiter, I like going out in victory at sea conditions with a smaller foil wing (now NL190/160). I'd like to start boosting / jumping; doing so strapless isn't working out thus far. However, when I have to re-start in the surf, I like to be able to get out of the trouble as fast as I got into it, a more buoyant board would seem to enable that much better than a lesser buoyant / volume board.
Title: Re: 75 lt board vs 40 lt board feeling
Post by: Dwight (DW) on September 30, 2020, 12:46:16 PM
Here is a perfect example of why you need volume. Typical east coast northeaster with current so strong it rips your legs out from under you. You literally cannot walk in it.

https://youtu.be/hxzzppBhcNM
Title: Re: 75 lt board vs 40 lt board feeling
Post by: Admin on October 01, 2020, 02:47:40 AM
We have been getting amazing easterly days here at locations where weeds build up over the warm months and are a problem by fall.  They are super dense and cover the surface near shore.  It is really nice to be able to flip your board over and paddle out on the base, above that grabby, tangled mess.  There are a lot of weird little situations where having a full floater is nice.  I see a sinker as an amazing possibility for sweet conditions but keeping a floater in the car just in case.
Title: Re: 75 lt board vs 40 lt board feeling
Post by: Solent Foiler on October 01, 2020, 04:07:58 AM
It's something I've pondered for a while. Everyone seems to be obsessing about/aiming for smaller boards, but there's comparatively little chat about getting onto smaller foils, which would give equally impressive increases in performance.

Assuming we're all on a journey to 'competence' where small foil and board as possible is the destination, is it a better progression to have a smaller foil on a bigger board or smaller board on a bigger foil?

FWIW I'm working on using smaller foils before smaller boards...
Title: Re: 75 lt board vs 40 lt board feeling
Post by: Admin on October 01, 2020, 04:33:00 AM
That is great point.  When it is light I can use a smaller foil and small wing on my 95 liter board when it is a struggle on a smaller board or when a bigger wing or foil would be needed on a smaller board.  Once you are up on a small foil and wing it is so low drag that you can stay moving through surprising lulls.  It is really nice to lose all of that extra bulk.  When the wind is stronger and reasonably steady, that is when I see the extra benefit of a tiny board.
Title: Re: 75 lt board vs 40 lt board feeling
Post by: Mike dubs on October 01, 2020, 04:47:42 AM
Good point on foil size.  I ride a Moses 790 1550cm2 and just got a 720 only 780cm2, Iíve ridden it once and got up easily enough on my 6í 115L board with a couple of extra pumps, it then felt I was on an electrified race horse. So plenty of performance to get to grips with before a sinker. Mike
Title: Re: 75 lt board vs 40 lt board feeling
Post by: winged surfer on October 01, 2020, 08:21:46 AM
i feel like going shorter with my board and going smaller with my front wing.
comparing to last year that i was using the 2100cm now my smaller front wing is 1550cm and i have the same low end.
Last weeks i tried the 800cm and i loved the speed and i could use +1 size wing foil, but of course it can't be the only front wing.
i'm interested in the New 1250hs from Armstrong and the new Takuma Kujira, especially this one they say it has the lift of a 1600cm.. we'll see...
Title: Re: 75 lt board vs 40 lt board feeling
Post by: bigmtn on October 01, 2020, 01:44:54 PM
I just put an order in for a 4'10 70L board from Dwight. My current board is a 7'0 that had the tail chopped off, so now it's a 5'9. Its been the perfect board for learning, but when I try to ride waves it's way too big. Just too wide and too much nose. It catches too much wind coming up the face, and the rails catch the water too often. Multiple people have told me it's time to go smaller, haha. I've got a 4'8 39L prone I've been wanting to try, but we just don't get enough good wind for it. I could see me using it on those good days where everything comes together, but those are rare.
Title: Re: 75 lt board vs 40 lt board feeling
Post by: Phils on October 01, 2020, 05:02:05 PM
I think going smaller with the foil is very different from going to a smaller board.  Once on foil, the smaller board really has no disadvantages and some very clear advantages.  Downsizing the foil (like any changes to the foil) has to lead to performance trade-offs.  Even when very windy, I prefer a larger foil that doesn't outrun the waves.
Title: Re: 75 lt board vs 40 lt board feeling
Post by: soepkip on October 02, 2020, 11:01:13 AM
I think going smaller with the foil is very different from going to a smaller board.  Once on foil, the smaller board really has no disadvantages and some very clear advantages.  Downsizing the foil (like any changes to the foil) has to lead to performance trade-offs.  Even when very windy, I prefer a larger foil that doesn't outrun the waves.
I agree that a board as small as the conditions and your skills permit has only advantages, but what about going sideways when you are faster than the waves?
Title: Re: 75 lt board vs 40 lt board feeling
Post by: Phils on October 03, 2020, 12:59:12 AM
I think going smaller with the foil is very different from going to a smaller board.  Once on foil, the smaller board really has no disadvantages and some very clear advantages.  Downsizing the foil (like any changes to the foil) has to lead to performance trade-offs.  Even when very windy, I prefer a larger foil that doesn't outrun the waves.
I agree that a board as small as the conditions and your skills permit has only advantages, but what about going sideways when you are faster than the waves?

Works great when the waves have a decent face that holds up but that is not always the case.
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