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Stand Up Paddle => Gear Talk => Topic started by: Beasho on September 22, 2020, 05:59:11 PM

Title: Apple iWatch with Dawn Patrol SURF TRACKING
Post by: Beasho on September 22, 2020, 05:59:11 PM
I have been using the iWatch to track surf sessions for more than 2 years. 

IT IS PHENOMENAL.  I am surprised it doesn't get more chatter on the Zone or elsewhere. 

My wife bought me the apple watch for father's day 2018 version 3.  I was so against Apple products I almost sent it back.

The "Dawn Patrol" app added to the watch is stunning.  I have motivated 1 friend on the East Coast, Paul Murray, to buy one and then all my surf amigo's in California from Jeff Clark to Haley Fiske and Dave Westendorf. . . .

We now trade sessions and have learned to read how good the (foil) session was by length of ride, speed and curvy-ness aka how much we were turning. 

For example here was my hero wave this summer.  East Coast in New England.  Rhode Island on a foil and a 470 yard ride, 1 minute 10 seconds.  Unheard of. 

Title: Re: Apple iWatch with Dawn Patrol
Post by: Beasho on September 22, 2020, 06:07:17 PM
Here is an example of my surf Amigo Mark.  He goes out foiling at our local spot in California and sends this report:  71 waves.  Prone Foiling . . . . 4 hours . .  Loop-d-Loop . . . Mark is in good shape. 

Holy Schnockers!!!! 
Title: Re: Apple iWatch with Dawn Patrol
Post by: Beasho on September 22, 2020, 06:11:59 PM
The TideChart view is so good I threw away my RipCurl TideWatch.  I was going to get the battery replaced and just hucked the $300 RipCurl in the trash.

TideChart costs $5.  Looks like this on the watch face.  Totally gorgeous.

PS: My iWatch 3 died after 2 1/4 years.  The upgrade to a refurbished 5.0 was mandatory to get surf tracking and tides back on the wrist.
Title: Re: Apple iWatch with Dawn Patrol SURF TRACKING
Post by: Beasho on September 22, 2020, 06:19:22 PM
There was a recent video by Robby Naish where he wanted to track his speed with data.  So he said he went out and bought a 'cheap' apple watch.  Funny!

The video showed a speed overlay on the WingDing footage and I thought there might be a new release of Dawn Patrol or some other way to sync the speed from the watch.  There wasn't BUT while hunting I found "Surf Watch."  It is a surf Forecast App (Free) for the watch and is also pretty fantastic. 

Watch faces look like this.  And the homepage on the iPhone is even slicker!
Title: Re: Apple iWatch with Dawn Patrol SURF TRACKING
Post by: Beasho on September 22, 2020, 06:22:01 PM
Homepage for "Surf Watch" looks like this:
Title: Re: Apple iWatch with Dawn Patrol SURF TRACKING
Post by: Beasho on September 22, 2020, 06:26:36 PM
Wave Metrics and Speed are available for free on the 1st wave OR all waves for $15 per year.

Otherwise you will see the Tracks and Max Speed and Distance for Every wave (for free).  Here is what a dissected wave ride shows with speed contours along the path of travel.     
Title: Re: Apple iWatch with Dawn Patrol SURF TRACKING
Post by: Beasho on September 22, 2020, 06:34:36 PM
Life Saver - Session Saver!

The day after my wife made me Re-Activate the cell service on my iWatch 5 replacement Ruby and I went surfing in Rhode Island.  She thinks the watch is going to help save me if things go really wrong.  I can just call for help!

We had a rental car and it was a cool morning 6:45 am with decent 4 to 6 foot surf.  I shut the door of the rental and went around back to open the trunk.  Trunk locked.  Ruby shut her door and it locked.  I had thrown the keys on the driver seat.  OMFG.  I thought these cars 1) Auto opened the doors and 2) Wouldn't lock you out.  But NOOOO!

After 15 seconds of panic I called my wife on my wrist (still a bit early at home) and said "We have a problem."  She called around and it was AAA that came 35 minutes later and opened the car.  We didn't have much time BUT there was NO ONE around when we first got locked out.  AAA was there fast enough that we managed to save the session. 

Small World Zone Story: "Eastbound" showed up 20 minutes after lockout, pulled right up behind us and talked us off the ledge.  He did have some good college application advice for Ruby.
Title: Re: Apple iWatch with Dawn Patrol SURF TRACKING
Post by: Beasho on September 22, 2020, 06:42:49 PM
Keep other tricks and app recommendations coming.  I am fully converted. 
Title: Re: Apple iWatch with Dawn Patrol SURF TRACKING
Post by: Beasho on September 22, 2020, 07:01:37 PM
Apple highlighted the Dawn Patrol app @ 16:57 in it's release video for the iWatch 6.0 last week.  Now that's a good looking face.

https://www.apple.com/uk/apple-events/september-2020/
Title: Re: Apple iWatch with Dawn Patrol SURF TRACKING
Post by: surfcowboy on September 22, 2020, 08:32:26 PM
Been on the fence but the cell service off shore on wind wing has swayed me. I知 looking at the SE since I don稚 need ECG just yet. But Apple leaving that out of the low end watch is pretty lame. Choosing profits over health as one trade put it today. I hadn稚 thought of that but it rings true.

For those on the fence, the previous gen are all on sale too.

Oh, and Naish was saying cheap compared to the high end GPS watches which it still is. Not sure how long those can stay high priced though, right?
Title: Re: Apple iWatch with Dawn Patrol SURF TRACKING
Post by: Hdip on September 22, 2020, 08:43:31 PM
Just a reminder for Apple Watch. Cell service does not have to be active to call 911.
Title: Re: Apple iWatch with Dawn Patrol SURF TRACKING
Post by: surfcowboy on September 22, 2020, 09:12:44 PM
That痴 a great tip.

I知 more thinking I値l have to call an Uber or a buddy to drive me back to my car when we lose wind halfway to the take out point.

I broke myself of my cell phone work habit a few years ago but I must admit that for the next year or two I値l get more sessions in if I was at least somewhat available to my team. I recently could have extended a session had I known a call canceled so I知 willing to try again. Back in the day I was chained to my phone. Now I知 way less so and the tech is more freeing than a ball and chain.

What痴 the good running/walking app? I use Runkeeper on the phone currently.
Title: Re: Apple iWatch with Dawn Patrol SURF TRACKING
Post by: gone_foiling on September 22, 2020, 09:50:39 PM
Quote from: surfcowboy link=topic=36553.msg421263#msg421263 date=1600834364

What痴 the good running/walking app? I use Runkeeper on the phone currently.
[/quote

Try workoutdoors, it痴 brilliant.
Title: Re: Apple iWatch with Dawn Patrol SURF TRACKING
Post by: Beasho on September 23, 2020, 06:34:03 AM
I broke myself of my cell phone work habit a few years ago but I must admit that for the next year or two I値l get more sessions in if I was at least somewhat available to my team. I recently could have extended a session had I known a call canceled so I知 willing to try again. Back in the day I was chained to my phone. Now I知 way less so and the tech is more freeing than a ball and chain.

The connection IS one downside.  Nothing more light a jolt of lightning than a phone call or double buzz on the wrist while catching a wave.  Really annoying.
Title: Re: Apple iWatch with Dawn Patrol SURF TRACKING
Post by: gone_foiling on September 23, 2020, 07:37:48 AM
I broke myself of my cell phone work habit a few years ago but I must admit that for the next year or two I値l get more sessions in if I was at least somewhat available to my team. I recently could have extended a session had I known a call canceled so I知 willing to try again. Back in the day I was chained to my phone. Now I知 way less so and the tech is more freeing than a ball and chain.

The connection IS one downside.  Nothing more light a jolt of lightning than a phone call or double buzz on the wrist while catching a wave.  Really annoying.

Do not disturb mode on while working out - there is a setting for that  ;D
Title: Re: Apple iWatch with Dawn Patrol SURF TRACKING
Post by: supthecreek on September 23, 2020, 10:48:10 AM
Mommy knows best!

A Dick Tracy wrist radio is a good tool for any kit!
Beasho.... I think I duplicated your 470 yard ride from way outside the Point yesterday.... ended up past the deck. Biggest I've surfed there in years.  :)
Title: Re: Apple iWatch with Dawn Patrol SURF TRACKING
Post by: Beasho on September 23, 2020, 01:25:05 PM
Beasho.... I think I duplicated your 470 yard ride from way outside the Point yesterday.... ended up past the deck. Biggest I've surfed there in years.  :)

I saw the post that you were at the Point yesterday.  The buoys looked pretty sizeable, meaning, that all the tough guys might have been fixing their fins and talking about better waves elsewhere . . . . 

Yes - My ride was on a 6 to 7 foot day.  Foil Only.  No way to connect all the way through on a regular surf board.  BUT when massive I imagine you can ride from Point to the Deck.  AWESOME!
Title: Re: Apple iWatch with Dawn Patrol SURF TRACKING
Post by: PonoBill on September 23, 2020, 04:07:37 PM
I bought an iWatch6 after watching about the first twenty minutes of the launch. Got the aluminum one with the loop band--love the band. No, they aren't cheap, but the tech is outstanding. One lead EKG, pulse rate, and blood oxygen all on your wrist, phone, gps, compass, and all the apps. Quite outstanding. My phone has suddenly become a seconday device. If it wasn't also my wallet I'd just leave it at home.

I had an iWatch 4, I liked it but it disappeared last winter in Maui. No idea where it is. Find my watch didn't work. The iWatch 6 makes the 4 seem like primitive tech.
Title: Re: Apple iWatch with Dawn Patrol SURF TRACKING
Post by: Quickbeam on September 23, 2020, 09:19:30 PM
I bought an iWatch6 after watching about the first twenty minutes of the launch. Got the aluminum one with the loop band--love the band.

I知 seriously looking at the iWatch 6. Think it might be a Christmas present for myself. I知 curious as to which 斗oop band you ended up with? I count I think 4 different loop bands. I am considering the 都port loop. Is this the one you are referring to?
Title: Re: Apple iWatch with Dawn Patrol SURF TRACKING
Post by: PonoBill on September 23, 2020, 09:42:10 PM
Mine is just a plain loop, no buckle, no magnets--called the solo loop. Just stretchy. The only way it's coming off is if it breaks, which doesn't seem likely.

(https://store.storeimages.cdn-apple.com/4982/as-images.apple.com/is/MYT02_VW_34FR+watch-44-alum-spacegray-nc-6s_VW_34FR_WF_CO)
Title: Re: Apple iWatch with Dawn Patrol SURF TRACKING
Post by: Hilly on September 23, 2020, 09:55:49 PM
If it wasn't also my wallet I'd just leave it at home.
Use Apple pay and no need for a wallet
Title: Re: Apple iWatch with Dawn Patrol SURF TRACKING
Post by: Quickbeam on September 23, 2020, 10:00:11 PM
Mine is just a plain loop, no buckle, no magnets--called the solo loop. Just stretchy. The only way it's coming off is if it breaks, which doesn't seem likely.

(https://store.storeimages.cdn-apple.com/4982/as-images.apple.com/is/MYT02_VW_34FR+watch-44-alum-spacegray-nc-6s_VW_34FR_WF_CO)

Thanks. I looked at that one (online) and wondered if it would be a pain slipping your hand through the loop every time you take the watch off and put it on. Sounds like it痴 not an issue though. Thanks again.
Title: Re: Apple iWatch with Dawn Patrol SURF TRACKING
Post by: surfcowboy on September 24, 2020, 01:30:06 AM
Surfline recommends the UAG strap for security. There痴 also one that covers the face for protection.
Title: Re: Apple iWatch with Dawn Patrol SURF TRACKING
Post by: Dwight (DW) on September 24, 2020, 04:21:07 AM
Anything but that new single piece, no buckle band, and you need one of these loops to stop it from blowing off your wrist in a big crash.

So many surfers lost Apple Watches to the original band. I知 using the UAG, but it still requires the loop below to make sure it doesn稚 blow off.

Adebena 8 Packs Rubber Replacement Watch Band Strap Loops, Watch Bands Keeper Size 14mm 16mm 18mm 20mm 22mm 24mm 26mm with Removable Tools https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07WF83FLV/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_tai_r.hBFbW1CEZ0X

My only concern with the new Apple Watch band, is how often to we have to replace it. My silicone wedding rings fly off in about a year when the silicone has stretched too much.
Title: Re: Apple iWatch with Dawn Patrol SURF TRACKING
Post by: PonoBill on September 24, 2020, 07:06:26 AM
If it wasn't also my wallet I'd just leave it at home.
Use Apple pay and no need for a wallet

By "wallet" I mean contains all the bullshits card I currently have to carry--license, global entry card, insurance cards, etc.. And a credit card and cash for anywhere that doesn't do electronic transfers. Someday those will all be bits in the cloud, but for now my phone case is my wallet.
Title: Re: Apple iWatch with Dawn Patrol SURF TRACKING
Post by: Beasho on September 25, 2020, 11:19:05 AM
As I am raving about DAWN PATROL the app has just LOCKED up on my iPhone.

Does anyone know if you can downgrade to an older version. 

I upgraded to version 3.2.2 and the Launch Screen just hangs.  Never gets back to the app.

I am now worried I may lose data or sessions.  Therefore do NOT want to unistall and re-install for example.

Any help?
Title: Re: Apple iWatch with Dawn Patrol SURF TRACKING
Post by: Dwight (DW) on September 25, 2020, 11:33:42 AM
Don稚 do anything. Dawn patrol has been emailing everyone saying they know about all the issues with this update and are working hard to fix it.

Title: Re: Apple iWatch with Dawn Patrol SURF TRACKING
Post by: gone_foiling on September 25, 2020, 11:35:37 AM
My 3.2.2 is fine on iOS 14.0.1
Title: Re: Apple iWatch with Dawn Patrol SURF TRACKING
Post by: Beasho on September 25, 2020, 01:46:44 PM
My 3.2.2 is fine on iOS 14.0.1
 
Just saw the update to iOS 14.0.1  Tried that.  Still No Dice.  Dawn Patrol is locked.

Mmmmm!
Title: Re: Apple iWatch with Dawn Patrol SURF TRACKING
Post by: Quickbeam on September 25, 2020, 05:12:46 PM
O.K., after all the talk here, and truth be told I've been thinking about it for a while now, I just ordered the Apple Watch 6. Now I have to wait almost a month to get it! Oh well, they say good things are worth waiting for.
Title: Re: Apple iWatch with Dawn Patrol SURF TRACKING
Post by: PonoBill on September 25, 2020, 06:58:24 PM
Dawn patrol has a new update, and once you've installed it you need to reboot the watch. They are aware of the problem. they think they have it fixed, but my guess is we're probably an update or two away from it being all good again. That's just how bugs go.

I'm having a painful empathy moment for them. I toasted two fairly expensive absolute rotary encoders today with a stupid software error. I sat there and watched them go unstable, and then stop working. Tested the fucking things and they are toast. Then I looked at my code and saw the little fuckup that killed them. Eighty bucks for two lines of code. FUCK! Sometimes technology is just depressing.
Title: Re: Apple iWatch with Dawn Patrol SURF TRACKING
Post by: Beasho on October 01, 2020, 03:02:13 PM
I am now going CRAZY not having Dawn Patrol on the iPhone.

I have it on the iWatch, BUT, the home screen is frozon on the iPhone.  I am waiting for a software upgrade before I just un-install and re-install and potentially lose all my sessions. 

For now I just take snapshots from the Watch (Push the Dial and Button simultaneously). 

I was watching a video of JB in Australia and he turned me on to another App:  "Waterspeed"

https://www.waterspeedapp.com/

This shows your tracks and speed, much like Strava, BUT has the option to download GPX data.  This could be great salvation as a result of losing functionality from my Dawn Patrol App:

Here is what a screen shot from Dawn Patrol on the iWatch looks like.  I snap this at the end of each session just to keep a record. 
Title: Re: Apple iWatch with Dawn Patrol SURF TRACKING
Post by: surfcowboy on January 10, 2021, 08:55:01 AM
YO, updating this. Dawn Patrol still the jam for Watch apps?
Title: Re: Apple iWatch with Dawn Patrol SURF TRACKING
Post by: clay on January 10, 2021, 09:29:21 AM
I am now going CRAZY not having Dawn Patrol on the iPhone.

I have it on the iWatch, BUT, the home screen is frozon on the iPhone.  I am waiting for a software upgrade before I just un-install and re-install and potentially lose all my sessions. 

For now I just take snapshots from the Watch (Push the Dial and Button simultaneously). 

I was watching a video of JB in Australia and he turned me on to another App:  "Waterspeed"

https://www.waterspeedapp.com/

This shows your tracks and speed, much like Strava, BUT has the option to download GPX data.  This could be great salvation as a result of losing functionality from my Dawn Patrol App:

Here is what a screen shot from Dawn Patrol on the iWatch looks like.  I snap this at the end of each session just to keep a record.

Good to know there is a way to export to gpx, could be fun way to add overlay to land/boat/drone video, or even a surfline cam...
Title: Re: Apple iWatch with Dawn Patrol SURF TRACKING
Post by: Beasho on January 22, 2021, 07:23:04 PM
Ohhhh Yes!!!!!

This watch is getting better and better.  Just figured out how to download all HEART rate data.

--> DOWNLOAD the CSV app. It will rip out the select Health data into CSV format.

Resting Heart rate vs. Continuous.  1X Resting data set per day where as continuous might read 5X per hour when sitting around. Then you start running or pumping the foil board and it records 10X readings per minute. 

The hourly data is getting pretty interesting.  Little things effect the rate, stress, drinking . . .
Title: Re: Apple iWatch with Dawn Patrol SURF TRACKING
Post by: seadart on January 22, 2021, 11:29:10 PM
My son works for Apple and gave me an Apple Watch for Christmas,  I don't like to fiddle with gadgets when surfing but I've found the watch pretty useful for watching how much exercise I get walking, biking etc.   I tried the Dawn Patrol app (free version)  out in small surf ( Knee to Waist)  I caught about two dozen waves but the rides were nothing exciting 25 to 50 yards, I had the app set to the slow wave sensitivity setting.  It only recorded one ride - and it was not the longest or fastest.  Was the surf just too small to get recorded?  I tried with it covered and not covered with my wet suit and also went hunting for some "bigger" waves with steeper drops,  tried surfing straight in, tried not trimming up and  down the wave, tried going as fast as I could pump it.  None of those rides got registered.   Does it use accelleration to determine the start of a wave?  I was surprised my heart rate goes up quite a bit for paddling out and surfing, more than I expected for easy surf.
Title: Re: Apple iWatch with Dawn Patrol SURF TRACKING
Post by: surfcowboy on January 23, 2021, 08:23:30 AM
Seadart, I missed a few too. Not sure about settings.

Covered doesn稚 matter. It uses a few elements to track when a wave starts. Which app did you use?

I will say what surprised me was how easy it just worked in my life. I didn稚 really fuss with it much.

I知 also surprised at how little I mind the nudges about health or breathing and how effective they are at making me get up and walk or whatever. Not pressuring really but if I知 5-10 min from hitting a goal at the end of the day I値l get up and do it.

Same for relaxing with the 釘reathe app. I miss most reminders but I do now get in a couple extra moments of calm a day and I値l take that.

Anyone know why he痴 missing waves? Know that it might have been a one time thing too. Or if it persists you might get it checked out.
Title: Re: Apple iWatch with Dawn Patrol SURF TRACKING
Post by: Beasho on January 23, 2021, 02:50:13 PM
Keep using the app.  I致e been close to 8 Iwatches now among 5 of my foil amigos.  The app works.  It may glitch but rarely.  I set on medium wave speed.  We share tracks after almost every session.  Here were my stats this morning. 

I was foiling inside Mavericks.  Got one 兎asy peasy 15 footer.  Took off and was flying free away from danger down what looked like a ski slope. 

Waves were 10 to 15 feet and I got out with dry hair.  Keep pushing.   
Title: Re: Apple iWatch with Dawn Patrol SURF TRACKING
Post by: Beasho on January 23, 2021, 04:18:26 PM
Tracks looked like this. 

Once you get used to seeing your own tracks you can interpret the sessions of your friends by the TURNY-NESS of the lines, the speeds, the takeoff spots. 

It's like an autopsy on the session.  No BS. If you hit 20 mph, or 22 or 25 your friends will say "Send me the tracks." 
Title: Re: Apple iWatch with Dawn Patrol SURF TRACKING
Post by: Beasho on January 23, 2021, 04:26:44 PM
Haley Fiske sent me these tracks the other day.  Wave caught at Mavericks 30+ foot face. 

This is probably The Fastest longest wave ever recorded. 

There MAY be faster waves (e.g. takeoff >> 34 mph) but then his ride went for 810 yards in 78 seconds.

This averaged 21 mph for 1/2 a mile. 

To go 34 mph you likely need a wave that is 30 feet high.  Then you need a place with 30 foot waves that will carry for 800 yards.  Not many of those in the world.  Then someone has to record the speed.  Hence the claim:  The Fastest, longest wave ever recorded.
Title: Re: Apple iWatch with Dawn Patrol SURF TRACKING
Post by: LaPerouseBay on January 23, 2021, 08:59:44 PM
This averaged 21 mph for 1/2 a mile. 

Robbie Naish surfed over a kilometer at over 18mph on an SUP.  Easy to find on the Google.  It was almost 7 years ago.

Laird and many other pros have likely gone longer and faster on foil than Haley's Mavs ride.

https://youtu.be/7fWhI3xeo1U
Title: Re: Apple iWatch with Dawn Patrol SURF TRACKING
Post by: Beasho on January 23, 2021, 10:24:23 PM
This averaged 21 mph for 1/2 a mile. 

Robbie Naish surfed over a kilometer at over 18mph on an SUP.  Easy to find on the Google.  It was almost 7 years ago.

Laird and many other pros have likely gone longer and faster on foil than Haley's Mavs ride.

Really.  Show me faster than 34 mph.  Under their own power. 

Anyone can get towed in on a 50 60 or 70 foot wave.  You show me anyone with data at 34 mph under their own power. 

Haley痴 wave was 2X as fast as Robbies and Robbie has never caught a wave as big as Haley.  Incomparable.  This was Haley 12 years ago.  He has dozens of photos like this.  Robbie was the first to conquer Jaws but Haley was riding waves like this under his own power at Mavericks when people were still towing in.  And no one thought this was possible.
Title: Re: Apple iWatch with Dawn Patrol SURF TRACKING
Post by: LaPerouseBay on January 24, 2021, 07:18:10 AM
This is probably The Fastest longest wave ever recorded.  at Half Moon Bay, on an iwatch...without a tow in...

Fixed it for you...
Title: Re: Apple iWatch with Dawn Patrol SURF TRACKING
Post by: surfcowboy on January 24, 2021, 08:48:59 AM
How about this? (Not that it痴 my business, which is my personality flaw lol.)

It might not matter. In the end, stats are great, but longest, fastest, first, more. To me it痴 all the worst part of being male and human. (Stop me if I sound like Clay here. That痴 a joke and a compliment in one btw.)

That痴 an awesome wave by Haley. Even if 100 people did it. It痴 an awesome ride and I値l bet it felt great. He痴 an amazing surfer.

I知 betting we could say that and get back to the topic and purpose, which is, now he can track that and see how he and his gear improve over time.
Title: Re: Apple iWatch with Dawn Patrol SURF TRACKING
Post by: Califoilia on January 24, 2021, 09:49:01 AM
To go 34 mph....
...you need to be seatbelted in a car. Y'all are crazy out there.... :o ;) ;D
Title: Re: Apple iWatch with Dawn Patrol SURF TRACKING
Post by: Beasho on January 24, 2021, 10:04:28 AM
For those new to the surf data game let me put this in context:

6 Years ago I bought a TRACE.  I started recording the speed of every wave since that time.  TRACE went belly up in March of last year (2020).  I had gone through 2 TRACEs of my own and then was gifted 2 more by a guy in New Zealand and PonoBill (Thank you both).  I started using Dawn Patrol in June 2018.  I found that Dawn Patrol, with the iWatch were recording the same speeds on waves.  TRACE was recording @ 5 Hz where the iWatch is typically 1 Hz. (RIPCURL watches were recording speeds ~ 20% slower).   I have recorded 10,000+ waves between the TRACE and iWatch (now my second iWatch).

Haley Fiske has been surfing Mavericks for 20 years.  I told him I was counting waves and he said "Beasho I started counting my waves at Mavericks in the fall of 2009.  On January 10th, 2010 I had caught my 100th wave and stopped counting."  OMFG!  In 4 months 100 waves.  I will sit down 

Haley, and Jeff Clark have been recording waves on a TRACE (now defunct) and are each on their 2nd iWatches with Dawn Patrol.  When they score a good session, or even a random session, I get a ping with the screen shot.

From what I have seen around Planet Earth - Haley's ride was significant.
   
But as with all scientific endeavors if you have better data please share it. 
 
PS: Maybe Skeleton Bay?
Title: Re: Apple iWatch with Dawn Patrol SURF TRACKING
Post by: Beasho on January 24, 2021, 10:08:21 AM
See this article which was TRACE issuing a worldwide SPEED competition using their device. 

Yes from 2014 BUT it puts into perspective where you have to be to go faster than 30 MPH aka Waimea is 3rd on the list.

https://www.theinertia.com/surf/these-groms-are-surfing-over-30-mph-in-the-first-ever-digital-surf-contest/
Title: Re: Apple iWatch with Dawn Patrol SURF TRACKING
Post by: Beasho on January 24, 2021, 10:14:51 AM
Here was a post from 3 years ago: Similar topic with data from around the world:

https://www.standupzone.com/forum/index.php/topic,33988.msg385868.html#msg385868

The reason this makes no sense to you is that in all your "scientific" analysis you fail to recognize the biggest factor of all, and that is the skill of the person surfing the craft.  You assume the surfer is a dead weight just sitting on top of the board, which is definitely not true.

Data Deniers the modern version of Luddites waving their hands and raising their voice when they see something that threatens them. 

Ignorant AND Opinionated must be a beautiful way to go through life.    8)

On the topic of SPEED there is one factor that override everything and that is the size of the wave.  I have an advantage both geographically and with data because Mavericks is my home break and I am the only person (other than Haley Fiske) that has attempted to paddle in under my own power at Mavericks on a foil.  To do this transcends the skill and enters the realm of big wave surfing something few people are willing to consider.

There was a speed competition in March sponsored by Ocean Addicts in Australia.  I was originally at the top of the list but the Australians would have none of that and started posting results.  It was springtime here and the waves were not regularly pumping.  Here were the results.  Fastest wave Prone.   :o  I sat in 4th place.

If you look at the data I already posted (small sample) there was a wave that maxed out at 28.5 mph.  This equates to 46 km/hr or 5% faster than anyone on the list. (This was prior to the competition so I did NOT submit it).

Fastest FOIL on Record - 8' 2" L41 SUP converted to Foil Board flying a Kai Foil (paddle in) - aka HEAVY clunky board & small foil.  Note that my fastest wave on the IWA (Posted above) was 25 mph or 40 km/hr putting me in 3rd place with a big wing.  And I haven't even mined all my data yet.  But if you have better data, as I said, please share.

Link here:
https://www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Stand-Up-Paddle/Foiling/Hydrofoil-Surfing-Speed-Competition
Title: Re: Apple iWatch with Dawn Patrol SURF TRACKING
Post by: LaPerouseBay on January 24, 2021, 10:32:29 AM
For those new to the surf data game let me put this in context.
TRACE was recording @ 5 Hz where the iWatch is typically 1 Hz.   

Your Gopro records GPS at 18Hz.  Overlay the telemetry on video (with a real time running speed graph).  Trust me,  you will gain a new perspective on peak speed.
     

   
Title: Re: Apple iWatch with Dawn Patrol SURF TRACKING
Post by: Hdip on January 24, 2021, 04:26:03 PM
https://youtu.be/E6X4V4K4XQI

Pretty long wave.
Title: Re: Apple iWatch with Dawn Patrol SURF TRACKING
Post by: PonoBill on January 24, 2021, 05:21:39 PM
I found that Dawn Patrol, with the iWatch were recording the same speeds on waves.  TRACE was recording @ 5 Hz where the iWatch is typically 1 Hz. (RIPCURL watches were recording speeds ~ 20% slower).   I have recorded 10,000+ waves between the TRACE and iWatch (now my second iWatch).

I'm not sure what you mean by recording at 5hz vs. 1hz. So you mean 5 position recordings per second?
Title: Re: Apple iWatch with Dawn Patrol SURF TRACKING
Post by: Beasho on January 24, 2021, 07:27:34 PM
I found that Dawn Patrol, with the iWatch were recording the same speeds on waves.  TRACE was recording @ 5 Hz where the iWatch is typically 1 Hz. (RIPCURL watches were recording speeds ~ 20% slower).   I have recorded 10,000+ waves between the TRACE and iWatch (now my second iWatch).

I'm not sure what you mean by recording at 5hz vs. 1hz. So you mean 5 position recordings per second?

Yes.  Trace downloads provided 5 readings per second.  So a 2 hour session would have 36,000 data points.  Latitude, Longitude, Speed, Direction and Distance. RIP.  The Waterspeed app allows for CSV downloads but at ~ 1 record per second.  But as you remember the TRACE was a handful to work with and @ $200 per device a significant % of the Cost of an iWatch. 
Title: Re: Apple iWatch with Dawn Patrol SURF TRACKING
Post by: Beasho on January 24, 2021, 07:34:42 PM
Pretty long wave.

Yes - Very mellow long wave.  How fast?  Maybe 20 or 22 mph?

Since this is a Standup forum, here is what a takeoff looks like at the Bowl at Mavericks.  Haley again.  He was between watches to I don't know how fast this ride was. 

https://vimeo.com/488797391/e760affcf3
Title: Re: Apple iWatch with Dawn Patrol SURF TRACKING
Post by: Beasho on January 24, 2021, 07:47:16 PM
If he makes the bowl section then he is riding a wave like this for another 600 yards.  Or 6X longer than shown in this video. 

There would likely be 4 or 5 reforms with 15 to 25 foot faces to survive to make it 800+ yards. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qtb5iQIJZQg
Title: Re: Apple iWatch with Dawn Patrol SURF TRACKING
Post by: Beasho on January 26, 2021, 07:06:10 AM
2 Years ago Laird spends a week and flies to Pacasmayo in search of the longest wave.  He rides for 4:15 and travels 1.1 mile @ 15 mph average.  Spends $10,000's to get there and get a drone pilot, boat . . .

Laird has invented many things: Tow-in surfing, Strapped surfing, Tow-Foiling and SUP.  We all wanted to foil from the first time we saw tow foiling in Step Into Liquid.  But what Laird did was untouchable.

Then Alex Aguerra invents a wing that is SLOWER.  Kai Lenny puts the Kai GoFoil on his downwind board and the TRUE foil surfing revolution started. From Tow-In Foiling to Downwind SUP foiling and then Prone Foiling.  Suddenly foiling was available to the masses. Things evolved.
Title: Re: Apple iWatch with Dawn Patrol SURF TRACKING
Post by: Beasho on January 26, 2021, 07:10:24 AM
Then someone puts peanut butter in the chocolate.  We don't even know who.  Maybe it was this guy????

The Wing-Ding revolution is ON.  People all over the world from lakes in Switzerland to the Ocean waves in the Azores to the frozen January winds off Toronto are winging in everything and getting really good.  What started in Hawaii was unleashed as if the power were turned off in Jurassic Park.
Title: Re: Apple iWatch with Dawn Patrol SURF TRACKING
Post by: Beasho on January 26, 2021, 07:14:08 AM
And we come full circle to the battle of the greats.  Laird rides for a mile 2 years ago in Peru and yesterday Jeff Clark rides for 21 miles.  Continuous foil flight for 90 minutes.  Winds were blowing 30 mph.

Yesterday.  Stepping out of his car and rigging up a 4.2 meter wing in his home town of Half Moon Bay he rides for 21 miles. 

But you wouldn't know it without the iWatch.
Title: Re: Apple iWatch with Dawn Patrol SURF TRACKING
Post by: Hdip on January 26, 2021, 09:32:24 AM
Paddle in surf versus wing is not comparable. In my opinion. Neither is Molokai to Oahu.
Title: Re: Apple iWatch with Dawn Patrol SURF TRACKING
Post by: LaPerouseBay on January 26, 2021, 10:52:50 AM
Then someone puts peanut butter in the chocolate.  We don't even know who.  Maybe it was this guy????
Ken Winner (not him in your picture).

The Waterspeed app allows for CSV downloads but at ~ 1 record per second.

Garbage in, garbage out.  Telemetry scrolled real time (like a scope on a hospital heart rate monitor) will show you the error of your ways.  Flatlines at 18Hz is one thing, at "~1Hz" would give new meaning to the concept of  "data smoothing." 

You live a stone's throw from Silicon Valley, Ivy league math background, yet continue to use the weakest telemetry/software available.  Shame on you.   :)   

Title: Re: Apple iWatch with Dawn Patrol SURF TRACKING
Post by: Califoilia on January 26, 2021, 11:10:00 AM
Paddle in surf versus wing is not comparable. In my opinion. Neither is Molokai to Oahu.
Yep, a buddy of mine will toss the rope as soon as he's up on foil behind his boat, and will have 15, 20 minute (sometimes even longer) rides w/o ever coming down. Heck, sometimes he even rests his legs so he can go longer later... ;D
https://www.instagram.com/p/BoaVwC_HBSs/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link
Title: Re: Apple iWatch with Dawn Patrol SURF TRACKING
Post by: LaPerouseBay on January 26, 2021, 03:42:48 PM
Garbage in, garbage out.  Telemetry scrolled real time (like a scope on a hospital heart rate monitor) will show you the error of your ways.  Flatlines at 18Hz is one thing, at "~1Hz" would give new meaning to the concept of  "data smoothing." 

Here is an example of a real time speed graph, overlayed on video.  It scrolls thru 10 seconds of telemetry (synched automatically on the video file, via gopro).  Your gopro Max will do a speedometer overlay with the same data.  (That's what Robby Naish used on his wingfoil speed at Maliko video).  Both cams sample at 18Hz.

See all the missing points on the line?  That's 180 points on that line, IF none are missing. Flatlines are missing points.  It's very common among GPS telemetry.  (That's why the DJI pros go up to 100Hz).   

Your iWatch is struggling to send 10 points to the Waterspeed app.  Then the app averages it all.     

The iWatch antenna is mounted to a moving object (wristwatch), Gopro antenna is mounted to my head.  We have excellent GPS signals here, as do you.  The helicopter guys have a nifty site to prove it.   https://www.uavforecast.com/

So, those air drops Haley is doing may very well be 34mph.  But the data points you are using are weak at that rate of change.  Therefore, top speeds spewed by the Waterspeed app are wildly speculative.  You know it better than I do with your math background.

When you put all the data alongside the video, it's easy to see.       
Title: Re: Apple iWatch with Dawn Patrol SURF TRACKING
Post by: LaPerouseBay on January 26, 2021, 04:17:15 PM
Beasho,

Here is the full video.  In my sport, we aim to flatten that speed line.  We avoid dropping straight down the waves, unless we can "make the next section" (to use surfing parlance).  That's why I whipped up that graph in Racerender.  If the speed graph drops precipitously, I'm about to do something wrong....   

In surfing, a scrolling speed graph will help illustrate the accelerations as you turn down the line.

That said, it's important to realize that all those fancy numbers are relative to the ground, not the surface of the water...  The effect of angling across a wave would be easy to see.  You should do it on your foil at Mavs.  I'll send you the template for that graph, it's easy to adjust for your speeds. 

That long ride Robby did averaged 18mph.  He was flying across the wave, just as Laird does on foil at Nazare'.  Nothing against air dropping, then straightlining big Mavs, it's all amazing to everyone. 

If you really want to claim speed across the water (or air) using GPS - accurately, you gotta go mechanical.  Rowers have been using them forever.   

https://youtu.be/B_FlTgM_Xw4
Title: Re: Apple iWatch with Dawn Patrol SURF TRACKING
Post by: LaPerouseBay on January 27, 2021, 01:51:05 PM
Here is a link to the impeller, with a few comments about the limitations of GPS. 
https://www.rowinginmotion.com/designing-measurement-system-rowing-boat-speed/

Here's Robby on a few videos I referenced.

Average speed is over 18mph.   
https://youtu.be/M4LQqMhdg5E

Gopro on his head, with the speed overlay (GPS at 18Hz).  Gopro cams have the gauge in their software somewhere.  It will be far more accurate than an iWatch and Waterspeed app, recording "~1Hz"  Particularly for air drops.  Spikes like an air drop are when I get very skeptical.  Hence the running graph.  I've seen some weird stuff on my 1Hz running graphs.   
https://youtu.be/0fqaT7LOCvY?t=193
Title: Re: Apple iWatch with Dawn Patrol SURF TRACKING
Post by: Beasho on January 28, 2021, 07:50:29 AM
Garbage in, garbage out.  Telemetry scrolled real time (like a scope on a hospital heart rate monitor) will show you the error of your ways.  Flatlines at 18Hz is one thing, at "~1Hz" would give new meaning to the concept of  "data smoothing." 

Here is an example of a real time speed graph, overlayed on video.  It scrolls thru 10 seconds of telemetry (synched automatically on the video file, via gopro).  Your gopro Max will do a speedometer overlay with the same data.  (That's what Robby Naish used on his wingfoil speed at Maliko video).  Both cams sample at 18Hz.

See all the missing points on the line?  That's 180 points on that line, IF none are missing. Flatlines are missing points.  It's very common among GPS telemetry.  (That's why the DJI pros go up to 100Hz).

Ahhhh now I get it you are demostrating crappy technology.  Here is an example of Data extracted from TRACE.  It was my standard for 5 years. 

TRACE NO FLATLINES EVER!  I know because I downloaded the data.  30,000 records per session 

Another example of a standard wave (2nd view).  The Blue Charts show the MAXIMUM and MINIMUM for every SECOND.  A Flatline would have dropped out of the the view. 

Having recorded and downloaded 5 million data points the TRACE never glitched. 

Title: Re: Apple iWatch with Dawn Patrol SURF TRACKING
Post by: Beasho on January 28, 2021, 07:58:45 AM
Here was an article I wrote for Microsoft's BI Semantic model, the technology and the code used to extract the data.  There is an interactive wave selection showing these graphics for every wave.

No Flat Lines.

https://powerpivotpro.com/2018/02/power-bi-used-for-surfing-fun/
Title: Re: Apple iWatch with Dawn Patrol SURF TRACKING
Post by: Beasho on January 28, 2021, 08:40:01 AM
When I wrote that article I offered to share my "APP" with anyone that wanted it.

Take It!  Process your data.  Tell us what you find.  Share the pictures . . . .

NOTHING!!!!! Crickets.  Not a single taker anywhere in the world. Not on the P3 website, Not here on the StandupZone.  Not on https://www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Stand-Up-Paddle/Foiling NOTHING.

I recently read an interview with Steve Jobs from 35 years ago.  And he succinctly explained why.  And why the Apple watch is great. 

It gives you instant feedback on your wrist "How long was that wave?"  "How fast did I go?"  No code, just pretty pictures of your rides that you can share with your friends.  Instantly. 

http://reprints.longform.org/playboy-interview-steve-jobs

"Some people are saying that we ought to put an IBM PC on every desk in America to improve productivity. It won稚 work. The special incantations you have to learn this time are 都lash q-zs and things like that. The manual for WordStar, the most popular word-processing program, is 400 pages thick. To write a novel, you have to read a novel熔ne that reads like a mystery to most people. They池e not going to learn slash q-z any more than they池e going to learn Morse code. That is what Macintosh is all about. It痴 the first 鍍elephone of our industry. And, besides that, the neatest thing about it, to me, is that the Macintosh lets you sing the way the telephone did. You don稚 simply communicate words, you have special print styles and the ability to draw and add pictures to express yourself." - STEVE JOBS
Title: Re: Apple iWatch with Dawn Patrol SURF TRACKING
Post by: PonoBill on January 28, 2021, 09:06:25 AM
Yes, if you want to record water speed you need some way to measure that directly. When I was doing testing for the KeNalu paddles I used an RC modeling data recorder and one input was a free-spinning impeller with a chopper wheel that triggered a hall effect sensor. Another input was a GPS module that included direct speed measurement via doppler. At one time you could buy handheld GPS devices and GPS modules that included doppler speed recording, but I haven't seen one for years. The general market doesn't care that much about speed accuracy. The GPS speedometer I installed in my Moho project does speed calculation from location--that from a device whose only purpose is speed measurement.

Over about three months of intensive testing, and the occasional sporadic testing later, the impeller speed and the GPS speed never agreed, even with doppler measurement. Even testing in flatwater the speeds never agreed, in the river the difference was huge, like +/- 5mph.

Location measurement via GPS without doppler is inherently inaccurate, both because of DOP issues (HDOP, PDOP, GDOP) and atmospheric issues. Fortunately, the feds turned off the time signal randomizers in 2000, so it's no longer wildly inaccurate, but it's still about +/- 5 meters. Increased sampling can help, but that doesn't change the simple fact that every measurement can be off by as much as +/-5 meters, and the distribution is somewhat random. You can be standing still and the GPS thinks you just jumped 10 meters in some fraction of a second. Raw GNSS data can be manipulated to give an accuracy of about +/- 1 meter. I don't know if GoPros, iWatches, Trace or any of the stuff you guys are using does that, but that's still a fairly shitty ruler.
Title: Re: Apple iWatch with Dawn Patrol SURF TRACKING
Post by: Beasho on January 28, 2021, 09:22:39 AM
Raw GNSS data can be manipulated to give an accuracy of about +/- 1 meter. I don't know if GoPros, iWatches, Trace or any of the stuff you guys are using does that, but that's still a fairly shitty ruler.

One way to test the LATITUDE - LONGITUDE accuracy - ROCKS!!!!


See these tracks.  I have highlighted in RED where the Rocks are: 

D = Dent Rock (I landed on this one time)
C = Crown Rock
M = Mushroom Rock

These tracks were exactly as I rode them through the rocks.  Within that 1 meter specification. 

When data is extracted you can get the LAT, LONG and exact time (I assume the watch is pretty precise with time).   Speed can be reverse engineered using the HAVERSINE equation.

This once again points to the accuracy of these devices and something that can be verified by HARD OBJECTS. 
Title: Re: Apple iWatch with Dawn Patrol SURF TRACKING
Post by: Tom on January 28, 2021, 10:19:02 AM
How about four surfers riding a wave while windsurfing for 1.65 miles? This was in San Carlos Baja during a major Northwest swell in the spring sometime around 1990. My friend Greg Miller and three others took off on a couple of waves in the same set at Bombora and rode them all the way to the fish camp. Somewhere I've got the windsurf magazine which documented the ride, but I can't find it easily. I used Google maps to estimate the distance. I can't prove it, but I've talk to most of the surfers.
Title: Re: Apple iWatch with Dawn Patrol SURF TRACKING
Post by: PonoBill on January 28, 2021, 10:57:34 AM
Interesting that you'd mention Haversine, I'm using that equation in my TowBot code. Or at least in the current iteration. I think there's an easier way, it looks like the Meshtastic software is making a very simple calculation for distance and heading between two GPS equipped modules talking to each other via LoRa. I don't understand it yet, but I'll figure it out.

One meter accuracy is fine for saying where something fixed is located, but for speed calculation where the speed is low, it can be a problem. Averaging a truly random set of coordinates with a known 1-meter accuracy improves the practical accuracy of the location even though the resulting accuracy can't really be determined. A truly random error could yield +1 meter to the left for 1000 measurements. Extremely unlikely, but possible. For a speed measurement, the number can jump around in the +/-1 range for every measurement. Assume the worst case where it alternates the jumps +1 and -1 for every measurement set and the actual speed is 10mph, about 4.5 meters per second. At a sample rate of 10hz that's .45 m/.1 sec. Two alternations around 0 at a sample rate of 10hz yields -.55m/.1sec and the next 1.55m/.1sec. or -5.5m/sec for the first and 15.5m/sec for the other. I'm doing the math as I type so I probably fucked up somewhere, but the principle is reasonably correct. Of course in practical terms that doesn't happen, but this is the reason that GPS calculated speed is not used for speed records.

There's a good paper on this here, which will probably be read about as often as yours. Meaning -not often. they said there'd be no math.
https://www.e-education.psu.edu/geog862/node/1786
Title: Re: Apple iWatch with Dawn Patrol SURF TRACKING
Post by: LaPerouseBay on January 28, 2021, 01:02:27 PM

Ahhhh now I get it you are demostrating crappy technology.  Here is an example of Data extracted from TRACE.  It was my standard for 5 years. 

TRACE NO FLATLINES EVER!  I know because I downloaded the data.  30,000 records per session 

Another example of a standard wave (2nd view).  The Blue Charts show the MAXIMUM and MINIMUM for every SECOND.  A Flatline would have dropped out of the the view. 

Having recorded and downloaded 5 million data points the TRACE never glitched.

That's hilarious.  Now I know you are messing with me. 

Here is a graph using a program even older than either your iWatch/Trace, (at 5Hz) and the iWatch/Waterspeed (at "~1Hz.")  This is Garmin's old "Training Center."  I prefer it to the newer Garmin graphing, which is dumbed down for the social media market.  All the new consumer grade stuff is.  They gotta follow the market.   

From that video I linked above: I'm zooming along, then stop to wait to meet up with a fellow paddler.  I'm just sitting there, floating along.  At 18Hz.   See all the dropped signals?  Smoothed even more in the second pic...  If you want to put your faith in that little iWatch at 1Hz, air dropping, have at it.  I'm not buying all those bar graphs.  That data is smoothed.  That's a whole lot of 1's and 0's in your little bars...

GPS on the water is pretty rough to begin with.  1Hz is weak sauce, even if you hi tech watch isn't dropping the occasional signal... 5 million points and you never had a glitch?  Dig deeper. 
Title: Re: Apple iWatch with Dawn Patrol SURF TRACKING
Post by: PonoBill on January 28, 2021, 03:47:38 PM
Oops, wrong link. Nice reference to general GPS stuff though. Here's the right one.
http://bioresonant.com/dl/dl.htm?name=HighAccuracySpeed.pdf

Yeah, the link is weird but it should work. It just downloads the .pdf. AFAIK it won't install any vicious malware.
Title: Re: Apple iWatch with Dawn Patrol SURF TRACKING
Post by: LaPerouseBay on January 28, 2021, 07:37:29 PM
Another example of a standard wave (2nd view).  The Blue Charts show the MAXIMUM and MINIMUM for every SECOND.  A Flatline would have dropped out of the the view. 

Here is some more bad news about those data points from an iWatch.  From this page.  https://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=9954519

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I just bought an Apple Watch 5 and returned it. Here's what I found:

- Most watches on the market use 1-second GPS fix intervals

- The Apple Watch uses an interval that "varies." The definition of that is proprietary, but from what I've seen online (and anecdotally validated through using it) is that the the Apple Watch is taking a fix roughly every ten seconds then using an accelerometer to interpolate position. Apple has a high-res screen (big battery drain), so the reduced GPS fixes conserve battery life.

- The Apple Watch uses a generous GPS smoothing function. This makes really pretty lines on a map, but it isn't very responsive to pace changes, especially when combined with the increased GPS fix intervals.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I was skeptical about that itty bitty battery - (and antenna).  As the forum guys explained, it's all a matter of compromise.  iWatches are amazing at what they do. 

But certainly not good enough for zero to 34mph in a second or two.  No way Jose'.

PB's post piqued my interest, so I had a look around.

Location measurement via GPS without doppler is inherently inaccurate, both because of DOP issues (HDOP, PDOP, GDOP) and atmospheric issues. Fortunately, the feds turned off the time signal randomizers in 2000, so it's no longer wildly inaccurate, but it's still about +/- 5 meters. Increased sampling can help, but that doesn't change the simple fact that every measurement can be off by as much as +/-5 meters, and the distribution is somewhat random. You can be standing still and the GPS thinks you just jumped 10 meters in some fraction of a second. Raw GNSS data can be manipulated to give an accuracy of about +/- 1 meter. I don't know if GoPros, iWatches, Trace or any of the stuff you guys are using does that, but that's still a fairly shitty ruler.

Atmospheric conditions, line of sight, it's all in the Navigation engineering sites.  Consumer grade GPS for acceleration/speed/location is lame until you get into very specific, very expensive software.  That's how the DoD does it...  Big antennas, big power, double checking data.   
Title: Re: Apple iWatch with Dawn Patrol SURF TRACKING
Post by: Beasho on January 30, 2021, 03:06:42 PM
Another example of a standard wave (2nd view).  The Blue Charts show the MAXIMUM and MINIMUM for every SECOND.  A Flatline would have dropped out of the the view. 
- Most watches on the market use 1-second GPS fix intervals

- The Apple Watch uses an interval that "varies." The definition of that is proprietary, but from what I've seen online (and anecdotally validated through using it) is that the the Apple Watch is taking a fix roughly every ten seconds then using an accelerometer to interpolate position. Apple has a high-res screen (big battery drain), so the reduced GPS fixes conserve battery life.

- The Apple Watch uses a generous GPS smoothing function. This makes really pretty lines on a map, but it isn't very responsive to pace changes, especially when combined with the increased GPS fix intervals.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I was skeptical about that itty bitty battery - (and antenna).  As the forum guys explained, it's all a matter of compromise.  iWatches are amazing at what they do. 

But certainly not good enough for zero to 34mph in a second or two.  No way Jose'.

On the one hand I should be happy someone even wants to pay attention to this.  On the other hand the responses are anecdotal.  The example given above, such as drop out, are for a single wave and virtually irrelevant to the issue of measuring speed.

The devices may not be perfect but are they within 1%, 2%, even 5%.  At 5% On a 20 mph wave that would amount to 1 mph difference.  1.5 mph on a 30 mph wave.  I'll take that.  That's just for speed.  Not to mention distance. 

DATA:
Here is a comparison between the TRACE which recorded the data at 5 intervals per second.  Not the GPS speed but the the records.  70,462 data points (extracted from Millions aka just the waves).  450 waves on a foil from 2017 to 2018.  aka Not just one wave.  See the MAX speeds.   

Note: The TRACE was likely more accurate than the iWatch.  However another way around any potential question on data is to overwhelm with data points.  With enough data the noise gives way to SIGNAL. 

As with artificial intelligence the algorithms haven't change what made it all possible was 1) Processor power and 2) more data. 

Did you bother to look up the Haversine formula.  When using Haversine all you need is GPS and Time.  The GPS accuracy is confirmed by tracking on land.   Millions of users giving feedback on Strava when the run isn't perfectly fitting on their path or sidewalk for example.  If they don't have it correct people scream.  The iWatch is on the right side of history.

2nd Example from the iWatch 14,700 data points.  Yes fewer but the data is FAR, FAR, FAR easier to access.  Similar Wave Count = 438.

See the comparison.  2 completely different technologies.  Max speeds, averages, distributions nearly identical.  NOT a single wave from almost 1,000 waves over 30 mph from either technology.  Why?  Because surf foils don't go that fast. 

White Screen - TRACE = Average Speed 12.9 mph

Black Screen - iWatch = Average Speed 13.2 mph
Title: Re: Apple iWatch with Dawn Patrol SURF TRACKING
Post by: Beasho on January 30, 2021, 03:34:15 PM
White Screen - TRACE = Average Speed 12.9 mph

Black Screen - iWatch = Average Speed 13.2 mph


This interesting because I have been using MORE modern wings lately.  Specifically the GoFoil NL Series vs KAI and IWA wings.

The other observation is the average distance went UP from 196 yards per wave to 241 yards per wave (from the samples).  MOST of the speed comes from the initial drop.  An average of 15 mph for the entire wave is VERY fast.  Meaning that the longer the wave the disproportionately greater time spent pumping on the slower tail end of the wave.

PS:  Attached are the 70,000 records from the TRACE in case anyone wants to dissect it further.  NO FLATLINES
Title: Re: Apple iWatch with Dawn Patrol SURF TRACKING
Post by: Beasho on January 30, 2021, 03:56:01 PM
But certainly not good enough for zero to 34mph in a second or two.  No way Jose'.

No one catches big waves in 2 seconds.  Another bad assumption anecdotal error.  Watch anyone paddling in to 20+ foot waves. 

I have been clocked by my Trace and iWatch at 15 to 19 mph and NOT caught the waves.  It often takes 5 to 10 seconds to get up to speed.  Unless there is an air-drop.

This was before the TRACE but I took ~ 8 seconds to make the drop which is always where the fastest part of the wave is recorded. 

https://vimeo.com/115180156
Title: Re: Apple iWatch with Dawn Patrol SURF TRACKING
Post by: LaPerouseBay on January 31, 2021, 12:12:04 AM
No one catches big waves in 2 seconds.
-snip-
Unless there is an air-drop.

Well, I guess that settles that.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-snip-
The Apple Watch uses an interval that "varies." The definition of that is proprietary, but from what I've seen online (and anecdotally validated through using it) is that the the Apple Watch is taking a fix roughly every ten seconds then using an accelerometer to interpolate position.
-snip-
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
On the one hand I should be happy someone even wants to pay attention to this.  On the other hand the responses are anecdotal.

I Googled  "iWatch GPS sample rate" and that's all I could find.  The thread inferred that GPS has serious limitations among wristwatches.  GPS is what it is, and it ain't much for accurate speed on the water.  That's common wisdom on the web.  GPS eats batteries, that's common wisdom too.  Hence the low sample rate... 

This is probably The Fastest longest wave ever recorded. 

That's quite a claim. 

-snip-
The only comparable waves to Mavericks (Half Moon Bay) are Jaws and Nazarre
-snip-
PS: Maybe Skeleton Bay?

There are several spots in the islands that hold giant surf.  Undoubtedly several more around the globe.           

Glad your iWatch is working for you and your pals.  Been fun, I'm out.
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