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The Foil Zone => Wingsurfing, Windfoiling, Wingfoiling, Wing SUP => Topic started by: winged surfer on September 19, 2020, 11:46:16 PM

Title: New F One Swing?
Post by: winged surfer on September 19, 2020, 11:46:16 PM
I just spotted this:
I can only see as changes the number of the handles and the central strut thinner
What do you think?

Title: Re: New F One Swing?
Post by: Dwight (DW) on September 20, 2020, 04:13:00 AM
I think they opened the door for someone to innovate, and become king of the hill next season.

Iím not sure more floppy is the performance feature the market was craving.

Iím sure it is tighter, stiffer, and has more range, but every brand has that.

The human connection to the wing is the wholly grail. When it happens, it will be like the bow kite arrival.

Title: Re: New F One Swing?
Post by: Admin on September 20, 2020, 07:10:30 AM
They have done a really good job of hiding it if they are updating https://www.facebook.com/fonewingsurf .  Is this it?  Longer handles allowing easier hand passes and correcting placement is half of what they need to do. 
Title: Re: New F One Swing?
Post by: DownSouth on September 20, 2020, 11:00:19 AM
There are aslo some rumours that they will use some new high tech material. On the photo you can see the two part leading edge ...   
Title: Re: New F One Swing?
Post by: winged surfer on October 03, 2020, 07:41:10 AM
i spotted a couple of new pictures, considering the one in the picture has only one rear handle i'm assuming it can be the new wing.
can you spot some differences in designs or anything else?

Title: Re: New F One Swing?
Post by: PonoBill on October 03, 2020, 07:54:59 AM
The trailing edge looks heftier and those lateral seams across the canopy are new (I think). I've bought some light tubular webbing with plans to sew it onto my 6M and/or 4.2 to help with the flapping. I'll thread a lightly tensioned "bolt rope" into this for adjustment, though my rope is kite line. The strut looks quite a bit thinner and it looks like there is a separate fill valve. That would be a good addition. Little tubes to fill multiple struts is a fine thing for kites and a pointless pain in the ass when you only have one strut. Getting the air out of the strut to pack the wing is fussy with the inevitably kinked filler tube, and the only way to have different pressure in the strut vs. leading edge is to clamp the tube at a lower pressure. There's no reasonable way to run a higher strut pressure.

Since wings are substantially smaller and simpler than kites it makes sense that the leading edge and strut could be made of exotic fabric.  There are laminated fabrics like Cuben that sandwich Spectra/Dyneema fibers and have 10 to 20 times more strength and less stretch than typical lightweight synthetic fabrics. Its also 5 to 20 times more expensive and the thread has to be as strong as the fabric, which makes sewing a bitch. I've tried to make things with Cuben and wound up with a real mess.

Most Cuben fabric is waterproof and air tight so it's theoretically possible to make a bladderless strut and leading edge. It's probably not worth the effort to do that since it would require sonic welding rather than stitching, but still...
Title: Re: New F One Swing?
Post by: Admin on October 03, 2020, 12:08:25 PM
OK, no wind right now so might as well geek out a bit.

Bill noticed the seams, paneling, load lines.  The old ones were all horizontal and full width.  These (prototype?) are a mix of horizontal and vertical (subtle diagonal) with only two of the horizontals being full width.  Most seams/shaping at the section right behind the leading edge with progressively less on the outer sections.  I imagine that they really worked to stiffen the camber. 

It looks like there may be a little dip in the leading edge surrounding the handle.  It also looks a bit flatter outline to the leading edge at the front, less of a constant arc of the current model.

Looking just at the Red Channel I am seeing a new strut shape.  It looks like a cylinder with a conical end.  This may just be wishful thinking on my part because that is something I had mentioned that I would do if I was going to do stiff handles.  That would allow handles to be placed anywhere on the strut and remain level with one another or would allow constant clearance behind a mini boom.

Title: Re: New F One Swing?
Post by: PonoBill on October 03, 2020, 12:52:27 PM
Looking at the front of the leading edge I suspect we're either looking at fancy-schmancy fabric or a lightly inflated wing. The V1 F-One had bulges along the leading edge, especially if Admin inflates it, but even at the recommend pressure the edge bulges between the seams so it looks a little like a tootsie roll. I don't see any hint of bulge in that leading edge. the canopy side of the leading edge has a hint of bulges, but it's not much--nothing like the V1 wing. The picture that started this thread shows how smooth the leading edge is as well.
Title: Re: New F One Swing?
Post by: burchas on October 03, 2020, 05:01:34 PM
With said launch date around the corner in November, I'm hoping there is more to it. Specifically regarding the handles.
Title: Re: New F One Swing?
Post by: PonoBill on October 03, 2020, 06:40:12 PM
A seriously high-tech fabric would be a big deal indeed. If they used strong enough thread (spectra) you could inflate the thing to 30 pounds and have a wing almost as rigid as one with carbon struts.
Title: Re: New F One Swing?
Post by: paddlur on October 03, 2020, 07:12:21 PM
Hope F1 do a upgrade of the handles and extend longer rear handle aft for us HW riders and keep it light and pull wingtips in to decrease wingspan a tad and Iím biting,donít see some magical new material being a game changer on a V2 after 20 yrs kiting been there seen that before, the VI material just fine just reinforce the stitching seams on the major stress points no need to reinvent the wing here but the V1 handles and locations needed some improvements no doubt.and keep the price point similar already overpaying for these wings as it is
Title: Re: New F One Swing?
Post by: burchas on October 03, 2020, 09:06:56 PM
A seriously high-tech fabric would be a big deal indeed. If they used strong enough thread (spectra) you could inflate the thing to 30 pounds and have a wing almost as rigid as one with carbon struts.

With fabrics like Aluula out on the market over a year ago, it's not out of the realm of possibilities but that would be stealing V3 thunder... We all know how that cycle works ::)
Title: Re: New F One Swing?
Post by: PonoBill on October 04, 2020, 08:10:29 AM
I guess the manufacturers have renamed Cuben as Dyneema Composite Fabric. Either fabric would be great. Aluula would make for a lighter wing and would be stiffer, Cuben would be crazy light and permit much higher tension on the fabric. Either one would be a lot more durable, Cuben is almost impossible to rip--the strength of the fabric comes from non-woven dyneema inside the lamination, there's no repeating pattern of thread for a tear to follow. It requires super sharp, high quality scissors to cut and even great scissors tend to wander and require constant correction to hand cut along a line. Both fabrics come in versions that are enhanced by graphene which pushes abrasion resistance to stratospheric levels. If you see a sailboat with dark grey sails you know the owner doesn't mind flinging money at their sails--it's probably graphene enhanced Cuben. Not easy to work with though. Anyone who has struggled to cut a spectra/dyneema rope understands the problem.

I'm surprised Ocean Rodeo hasn't produced a wing yet. When/if they do it will no doubt be aluula. They seem fully committed to the fabric. These new composite fabrics are going to make big changes in the outdoor world, but it's going to take time. Dacron has been around for almost 80 years, but took 30 years to be used commonly in outdoor clothing and gear. I remember when Dacron sleeping bags were considered junk--real sleeping bags had flannel on the inside and waxed canvas on the outside, and weighed about the same as an engine block when they got damp, which was always. When you pick up a piece of Cuben it feels ridiculously insubstantial--untill you try to stretch, tear or cut it. A Cuben rain shell typically weighs 6 ounces or less, looks like a piece of cheap crap and costs 300 bucks. But it's breathable and waterproof--even along the seams, packs down to the size of a candy bar, and doesn't lose any of it's properties when it's squished repeatedly. Crazy stuff. The price per yard is coming down dramatically. I bought four yards in a remarkably ugly yellow-green for more than 200 bucks a few years ago. Now I see it in some nicer colors for $17 a yard. That's almost as cheap as Dacron or ripstop nylon. Cuben has been around since the 90's, but adoption of the fabric was slowed in part because initially it was more susceptible to UV damage, and it part because North Sails bought the company and used all the production capability for sails. There's still some residual funny biz about using Cuben for sails, I think North still has the rights for sailmaking though Dyneema can sell it for all non-sailing applications.

Paddlur--reinforcing only goes so far. Stitching weakens the fabric and the needle holes provide a place for tears to start. That's why sailmakers use a version of zigzag stiching (I've forgotten what it's called, but it's zigzags with intermediate stiches in the zigs). Even when the thread doesn't fail, seams are the places where failures start because of stitching damage. These new composite fabrics don't fail along the seams unless the thread is weaker than the fabric. The needles rarely cut the threads of the fabric and weaken it, they just push the threads aside. In both cases we're not talking about small differences, these fabrics are 50 times stronger than dacron, and in some applications more like 100 times stronger. Typical Cuben fabric is .51 ounces per square yard. Dacron sailcloth ranges from 4oz to 16oz per yard, and .51 ounce Cuben is much stronger than 16oz sailcloth. This is like comparing carbon fiber to bamboo.
Title: Re: New F One Swing?
Post by: Keys Sup on October 04, 2020, 10:16:56 AM
Love Cuben Fiber. Still have 2 Aerotech CF windsurf sails that are awesome!
Title: Re: New F One Swing?
Post by: winged surfer on October 05, 2020, 06:33:41 AM
i have an official release date: November 2020
Stay tuned!
Title: Re: New F One Swing?
Post by: winged surfer on October 25, 2020, 07:17:11 AM
On the online magazine WIND there is a complete 3 pages article with pictures of the new F One wing : THE STRIKE.
Does anyone has access on this magazine?

Title: Re: New F One Swing?
Post by: winged surfer on October 26, 2020, 12:18:29 PM
Some images of the new model

Title: Re: New F One Swing?
Post by: Wetstuff on October 26, 2020, 01:47:12 PM
' Some interesting panels....


Jim
Title: Re: New F One Swing?
Post by: clay on October 27, 2020, 04:03:30 PM
On the online magazine WIND there is a complete 3 pages article with pictures of the new F One wing : THE STRIKE.
Does anyone has access on this magazine?

I bought the issue via pressreader.com.  I don't read French and the web translator didn't work for me, a workaround was to export in Kindle format and then copy to my phone and have the kindle app translate to English so i could read the article.  Overall interesting to hear about the R&D process.  A detail on the new Strike wing that I gleamed is the handles seem to be much improved and I think they are movable/removable - maybe similar to the BRM cloud wings?
Title: Re: New F One Swing?
Post by: Admin on October 28, 2020, 01:39:35 AM
On the online magazine WIND there is a complete 3 pages article with pictures of the new F One wing : THE STRIKE.
Does anyone has access on this magazine?
A detail on the new Strike wing that I gleamed is the handles seem to be much improved and I think they are movable/removable

That would be fantastic.  A few refinements and this should be outstanding. 

I scored a little solo session on the 3.5 yesterday.  Pretty great but very gusty.  Made me think how good these wings already are and how well they deal with whatever you throw at them.  Ours are over a year old, used by both of us (a lot) and they are in great shape.  The 3.5 and 4.2 are almost a full quiver for me.  They cover 14 to 30 really well and they are useable outside of that range.  It is too easy and consistent just to use those two so I never end up rigging anything else.  My 5.0 is gathering dust.  If all they do is extend the handles I will buy them again.  If they do stiffen the handles, make them movable / removable, or stiffen the wing, that will be gravy.
Title: Re: New F One Swing?
Post by: Admin on October 30, 2020, 05:39:32 AM
Some Facebook grabs:

Title: Re: New F One Swing?
Post by: Dwight (DW) on October 30, 2020, 07:14:41 AM
Looks like more dihedral to me. Like Duotone Echo amounts of it.

Not great for teaching. When down on the water floundering, itís so easy for wind to get under the ďup highĒ wing tip and flip it. Then students complain the wing is flipping over every time they crash.

I really canít feel any advantage to more dihedral, other than tips being higher above crashing waves trying to get outside the shore break.
Title: Re: New F One Swing?
Post by: PonoBill on October 30, 2020, 07:43:44 AM
Yeah, as any former RC glider fan knows, dihedral is always a two-edged sword. In theory it makes a wing self-center as long as the center of mass is under the midpoint. In practice it makes the wing hunt more as evidenced by the Echo and it's balloon-in-a-high-wind wobble when it's not tightly sheeted in. It also tends to make the wing tip in directions you don't necessarily want while it's doing it's best to self-correct for whatever you are trying to make it do.

The F-one V1 has a bit of it, I'm surprised to see more. Obviously there is a reason, and as soon as we get our hands on one of these we'll know more about why. It should help a bit with tip dragging, both by holding the tip a bit higher and by making the consequences of dragging a tip more recoverable. A little shallower angle to the contact with water should be beneficial. I look forward to seeing the thing.
Title: Re: New F One Swing?
Post by: Admin on November 02, 2020, 11:10:29 AM
Looking pretty good :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MioNo_6_b8E
Title: Re: New F One Swing?
Post by: Dwight (DW) on November 02, 2020, 12:27:06 PM
I miss my old 2.8 and 3.5 Swing.

It was gusting to 42 today in Florida. Those soft Swings handle trashy wind more gently that some of the stiff rigid wings.

My 2.6 and 3.3 Echos felt like trying to ride camber induced race sails. It was a rough.



Title: Re: New F One Swing?
Post by: gone_foiling on November 02, 2020, 01:33:16 PM
I was riding on the other coast of FL today in the gulf. 3-4 ft waves with NE winds gusting to 32mph (offshore) I had a blast with my GL210 and Swing 4.2. Damn, 27 miles of pure fun and joy. Swings are the best.
Title: Re: New F One Swing?
Post by: flkiter on November 02, 2020, 02:42:39 PM
2.8 over powered in Miami today. Went to 2.5 ensis and was still lit up. Hopefully F1 will make a 1.8 for 2021.
Title: Re: New F One Swing?
Post by: Phils on November 02, 2020, 03:49:43 PM
I was very well powered on my 2.8 today and definitely want a smaller wing.  The Fone crew is coming through FL this month so maybe they will have something.  Otherwise, the BRM 2 is an option.
Title: Re: New F One Swing?
Post by: VB_Foil on November 02, 2020, 05:07:14 PM
2.2m BRM today was a treat. So small! Gusting just over 30 in the mid Atlantic. Wouldnít have been fun on a larger size. 1.8 would be a good size for nuking conditions!
Title: Re: New F One Swing?
Post by: cnski on November 02, 2020, 06:04:39 PM
Did dawn patrol today at 6am in Rhode Island before work on my new 5m Duo Unit. 39 degrees with a 5/4 and gloves brrrr. Last weekend I was surfing in my 3/2. Really impressed with the Unit. George of Delta HF got blown off the water on his 3.5 Swing mid-day in 35-48 mph winds. Sun setting at 4:30 pm now. It's going to be a long winter. Wingers going nuts all up and down the eastern seaboard.
Title: Re: New F One Swing?
Post by: Admin on November 03, 2020, 02:25:57 AM
2.8 over powered in Miami today. Went to 2.5 ensis and was still lit up. Hopefully F1 will make a 1.8 for 2021.

Yes!  Not sure how they are missing this.  Swings are powerful wings.  3.5 (my most used wing) is great at 18 MPH for mid weights, 2.8 kicks in mid 20's (if you don't want to be hanging from the 3.5).  Over 30 a 2.2 or similar would be amazing.  That is for full sized guys.  What about women and kids?  2.2 will be a money wing for the 100 to 120 lb set but a 1.8 or similar would be great for windy days.
Title: Re: New F One Swing?
Post by: PonoBill on November 03, 2020, 06:47:15 AM
I think Chan needs a 1.5. I'm thinking about putting zippers in my 3.5 for bleed holes. When I poked two holes in it during that recent super gusty session it was actually really nice coming back in.
Title: Re: New F One Swing?
Post by: flkiter on November 03, 2020, 08:42:26 AM
Foils are also going to be getting more effecient so less wing will be needed. I've dropped wing sizes and ride way less wind these days than I did a year ago. A one and two meter wing will greatly be welcomed. Plus being able to go in canals, lakes, and random ponds allows the rider to be in extreme winds without the extreme conditions.
Title: Re: New F One Swing?
Post by: Admin on November 03, 2020, 08:47:58 AM
Foils are also going to be getting more effecient so less wing will be needed. I've dropped wing sizes and ride way less wind these days than I did a year ago.

Me too.  I used to spend a lot of days on my 5.0 but with these newer foils I haven't used it in months.  Pretty happy about that because wingtip drag on the 4.2 and smaller is a minor deal. 
Title: Re: New F One Swing?
Post by: Dwight (DW) on November 06, 2020, 10:09:09 AM
The Florida demo tour is the old Swing
Title: Re: New F One Swing?
Post by: gone_foiling on November 06, 2020, 12:51:57 PM
The Florida demo tour is the old Swing

c'mon - this sucks -  :-[
Title: Re: New F One Swing?
Post by: winged surfer on November 11, 2020, 03:32:36 PM
More details on the new F one ..
Title: Re: New F One Swing?
Post by: Dwight (DW) on November 11, 2020, 04:10:38 PM
There are 2 new wings from Fone.

Swing v2 in the Spring.

A high performance new model next month.
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