Standup Zone Forum
The Foil Zone => Foil SUP => Topic started by: steamroller on August 26, 2020, 10:44:00 PM
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yes the resolution sux...yes its from the surfline cam...across the street waaaay far away...but the siloshot can't keep me in focus....anyway....im a fatass 240lbs on the NL220....im tellin you the winglets are no joke....
https://youtu.be/-qRRHnrBE_E
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W.T.F.! The hell with what the NL220 is capable of...I'm more impressed with what the big guy on top of the board is capable of!...
(https://i.imgur.com/R5Skwjc.gif)
...gravity defying. :o :D
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DiiiiiG! :D :D :D
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When people talk about a wing "not turning" I have always been skeptical.
I have NEVER felt like I pushed my foil so hard that it would NOT respond. More that the foil always had MORE turn in it.
What Steamroller is demonstrating is that when put on a "rail" the foil does not breach and fail.
Fantastic. You can even see the tip come out!!!! On the Surfline Camera no less. I am starting to believe that the original Anhedral foils had the benefit of turning because they were curved to NOT breach. These little winglets allow (maybe) for us to use high aspect FLAT foils which are WAY WAY more efficient and the winglet may prevent the cavitation along the top of the foil.
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That 360 turn move should be called a "steamroller".
-red
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When people talk about a wing "not turning" I have always been skeptical.
When I whine about a wing not turning, I don’t mean literally. I mean it doesn’t roll in and out of a turn so easy and smooth I’m one with the wing. I think it, it flows with me. Like a windsurf wave fin versus a slalom fin. Wave fins I love. Slalom is less fun.
Watch closely the videos. You can tell the type of front wing just by the way a surfer flows rail to rail and to some extent, the way their arms flail
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Steamroller - You're rippin! Awesome.
I agree with Denton and Dwight. And I am adding that a stabilizer that is matched to the front wing can help a ton with turning or not turning.
First I saw of upturned wingtips were in the video of Robert Teriitehau he breached a tip quite a bit, if that's the secret sauce to riding tips out I want me some.
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just rewatched that Teriitehau sup foil video - I hadn't noticed the wing tips before! I also hadn't noticed that he performs a "steamroller" in that video as well. I guess he did it first if that counts for the naming convention :D
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Beasho, it is really hard to get a SUP foilboard on rail that hard without breaching the tips. Just the shear width of the board means we need a really long mast to keep a GL210 or 180 wingtip in the water without burying a rail of the board. So yeah, I feel limited in how hard I can push a turn, especially on a wave where the rail of the board is against the wave face in a bottom turn. Same problem trying to ride high on a steep wave.
~20" wide prone board has so much more margin to make turns with the foil deeper in the water. I've set up for hard turns by making sure I'm deep enough in the water
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Beasho, it is really hard to get a SUP foilboard on rail that hard without breaching the tips. Just the shear width of the board means we need a really long mast to keep a GL210 or 180 wingtip in the water without burying a rail of the board. So yeah, I feel limited in how hard I can push a turn . .
I had a similar thought so will ask:
Steamroller - How long was your mast in that video? And - Width of Board?
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the wingtips are piercing the surface...every time...but the winglets spinn off amd awaythe tip vorticies keeping the wings efficient and the cutouts let you re-engage the foil and stop the ventilation from progressing all the way across the span once you submerge it again..
airplane winglets dont have cutouts but tbey fly in air...when they were testing Alex found that the trailing edge corner of the winglets in WATERand air had a lot of interference drag and they kept ventilating...and wouldn'tet it go...with the cutouts...thw water comes back together and the ventilating stops...
your guys feedback is GREAT...but i keep getting more and more stuff that needs to be discussed...feels like im never going to gwt this thing finished...haha
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figure out how to get me an NL wing and the questions will stop ;D
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sorry guys i feel badfor you ...i do the same thing with the waiting waiting for the new stuff and the lack of info...
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you guys wanna see what i have so far!...still gotta add wilglets and cutouts parts...
if I sound like a total dumass feel free to let me know...
input is appreciated ...i jst do this for FUN!
https://youtu.be/st9CrONGKfQ
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I love this video. I hope you just keep adding to it and posting it so I can keep watching it over and over.
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haha...thanks
beasho...im on a 5'6"x29"×something thick SUP 110L...and the 29.5" mast with the plate adapter comes out to 32.5"total i think...and the 6.5"pedestal and the bigger of the stabilizer with the wingtips...its the 2018 mast so had to cut i think it was 2 cm off the fuselage to make the pedestal fit...easy no problem at all...5 min job max...
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Awesome video.
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Its a pretty damn compelling commercial for the NL wings! Missing some crucial information like how to get one. GoFoil website is no help since they don't sell anything and the NL isn't even on there. GoFoil is getting completely passed up because they don't seem to know how to run an operation - great tech but no marketing, production, or distribution. Just saying it like I see it.
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Its a pretty damn compelling commercial for the NL wings! Missing some crucial information like how to get one. GoFoil website is no help since they don't sell anything and the NL isn't even on there. GoFoil is getting completely passed up because they don't seem to know how to run an operation - great tech but no marketing, production, or distribution. Just saying it like I see it.
+1
Frustrating to see guys with the wings and then its a treasure hunt to find them. Jondrums, I usually call MacKiteboarding https://www.mackiteboarding.com/ and they know when new GF wings and parts are coming. Kind of backwards. I am guessing GF would make more $ if they were able to sell direct rather than through distribution. My thoughts.
-red
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Great vid Steamroller! Has me frothing over here! Now I want to try the NL wings.
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i hear you guys and empathize with you ...totally...totally understand why Sanoand others jumped too
if you remember way back when Uliboards had the inflatable board marketcornered ...same thing wss happening...everything was unobtanium...hopefully they can het this sorted out real quick like :o
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Dude it’s the perfect mix of a ginsu knife ad, an intro to physics class and a caffeine-fueled TED talk. I mean that as the highest praise.
But seriously, I really loved that you moved fast and packed in the info. Educational stuff can be slower paced. But for marketing, I wanna keep it moving. Well done!
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rad stuff. thanks.
How does the NL220 compare to both the GL210 and GL240? I have one on order.
I'm a big guy... very big. 6'6".
mostly on the 240, which I like best with the 6.5" pedestal (no shim washer) and 17.5" flip tip flat tail; with either 29.5" or 36.5" mast depending prone surf or wingfoil). I used to ride with one shim washer and the longer pedestal, but it's way more responsive now and pretty much just as stable at speed.
I've had other friends try my setup and they don't go anywhere near as fast as me on it (but they're fast on their own foils) or as turny. It's pretty interesting how being a bit heavier lets you get so much more out of the big wings. Id still rather just be smaller though.
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Its a pretty damn compelling commercial for the NL wings! Missing some crucial information like how to get one. GoFoil website is no help since they don't sell anything and the NL isn't even on there. GoFoil is getting completely passed up because they don't seem to know how to run an operation - great tech but no marketing, production, or distribution. Just saying it like I see it.
+1
Frustrating to see guys with the wings and then its a treasure hunt to find them. Jondrums, I usually call MacKiteboarding https://www.mackiteboarding.com/ and they know when new GF wings and parts are coming. Kind of backwards. I am guessing GF would make more $ if they were able to sell direct rather than through distribution. My thoughts.
-red
GoFoil actually does sell direct as well as through dealers. You just need to call them. You'll probably be speaking to either Karla or Alex. As big as they seem in the foil world, they're a lean, hands-on operation. Both Karla and Alex are great on foils, when I'm in Maui I see them almost every day at Ka'a, so their experience directly relates to the kind of foils they're producing.
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Its a pretty damn compelling commercial for the NL wings! Missing some crucial information like how to get one. GoFoil website is no help since they don't sell anything and the NL isn't even on there. GoFoil is getting completely passed up because they don't seem to know how to run an operation - great tech but no marketing, production, or distribution. Just saying it like I see it.
+1
Frustrating to see guys with the wings and then its a treasure hunt to find them. Jondrums, I usually call MacKiteboarding https://www.mackiteboarding.com/ and they know when new GF wings and parts are coming. Kind of backwards. I am guessing GF would make more $ if they were able to sell direct rather than through distribution. My thoughts.
-red
GoFoil actually does sell direct as well as through dealers. You just need to call them. You'll probably be speaking to either Karla or Alex. As big as they seem in the foil world, they're a lean, hands-on operation. Both Karla and Alex are great on foils, when I'm in Maui I see them almost every day at Ka'a, so their experience directly relates to the kind of foils they're producing.
My bad pono bill. I stand (up) corrected. I will call them for my NL then. I just checked the site and they now have the GL series up which is a step in the right direction.
Cant wait for an NL.
-red
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you guys wanna see another Carving360?...resolution still kinda bad but at least its not the Surfline Cam anymore...
https://youtu.be/KtfQeK0_rdI
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you guys wanna see another Carving360?...resolution still kinda bad but at least its not the Surfline Cam anymore...
Steamroller. That move is called the "steamroller", some guy with your name invented it. The trick is to make grunting sounds while you pull it off.
Thanks for the video, love how shallow you are at the end.
-red
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haha if you listen real close can hear me grunting all the way from the beach!...
named it the "YewwwGi!"
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Love that 360 Steamroller!
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great move and promo video, well done.
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Only thing I don't agree with: you said the shiny, glossy surface of the wing has less drag and extends the laminar flow better than a sanded surface. My understanding is that a non-glossy/ matt surface actually promotes laminar flow better than a glossy surface, although I doubt you would notice the difference.
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i have heard this and read the literature too...don't know what the answer is...asked a friend who designs those RedBull AirRace airplanes why they are all shiny and sleek if he had seen the papers on the textured surfaces...he had but they still make um smooth...
BUT
the SR71 hypersonic 7000mph airplane is parked ..right outside my work and THAT guy has a sanded finish!...might be because its been sitting out there for 20 years though too...
(https://images.search.yahoo.com/images/view;_ylt=Awr9JhW0iFJfW4EAhXyInIlQ;_ylu=X3oDMTIyZ3FvNmhhBHNlYwNzcgRzbGsDaW1nBG9pZAM2YWJiZDFkODE4ZDVmYWE0MzlhNGM0OTNlYjY2YTIwMwRncG9zAzIEaXQDYmluZw--?back=https%3A%2F%2Fimages.search.yahoo.com%2Fsearch%2Fimages%3Fp%3Dsr-71%2Bblackbird%26fr%3Dyfp-hrmob-s%26fr2%3Dpiv-web%26tab%3Dorganic%26ri%3D2&w=1200&h=974&imgurl=www.aircraftcompare.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2019%2F08%2FLockheed-SR-71-Blackbird.jpg&rurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.aircraftcompare.com%2Faircraft%2Flockheed-sr-71-blackbird%2F&size=54.8KB&p=sr-71+blackbird&oid=6abbd1d818d5faa439a4c493eb66a203&fr2=piv-web&fr=yfp-hrmob-s&tt=Lockheed+SR-71+Blackbird+-+Price%2C&b=0&ni=21&no=2&ts=&tab=organic&sigr=0QbWswVtnPAO&sigb=e8qWKvfkc1Vb&sigi=o1QjIIfPDyZn&sigt=hEcAxWUAZW9E&.crumb=OhimycUs/xo&fr=yfp-hrmob-s&fr2=piv-web)
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Back in the days of windsurfing the fastest finish on fins was a 400 grit sanding.
It had something to do with SLOWING down the flow at the boundary layer and the subsequent layers would shear up to the freestream. If flow got too fast at the boundary there could be separation. Separation caused higher drag than the shear between the layers.
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see i remember THIS!...i got one of the very first of the Windsurfing Hawaii White Lite slalom boards...used of course...and the bottom had a sanded finish too ;D
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Blaaaaaaah...this one is even FURTHEr away from the cam... but thats all the video i got...sorry
Carving360!...
https://youtu.be/rIlWGSv5Oew
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Sealevel view 360! ;D
https://youtu.be/kn4R93IizHo
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nice one! where's that???
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Sealbeach jetty...socal ;D
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Steamroller, are you on the short pedestal?
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yup ...6.5 pedestal... 18w tail with the wingtips...NL220 wing...and the 36.5 mast with the base plate adapter...
the mast is a bit too tall for small waves...the wing ends up being below the power of the swell in anything below waist high...and the turning radius is wider compared to a shorter mast...i would've preferred the 29.5tuttle with the base plate adapter or the simply the 32.5 plate mast...
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the mast is a bit too tall for small waves...the wing ends up being below the power of the swell in anything below waist high...and the turning radius is wider compared to a shorter mast...i would've preferred the 29.5tuttle with the base plate adapter or the simply the 32.5 plate mast...
I get the tuttle masts, and like to have both tuttle and track mounts on my boards. Then you have options to add/remote the adapter for a 3" mast length change for conditions. And it still comes out cheaper and easier to travel (when that was a thing) than buying a plate-only mast.
So with a 29.5" and 36.5" mast, I get 29.5", 32.5", 36.5" and 39.5" options.
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Hi steamroller,
The best think about these vids is getting a good look at the legend himself!
I have seen all the " steamroller" surfing inflatables videos through the years, but he remained as elusive as Bigfoot.
Your vid describing the NL foil and winglets, plus the mouth cam view, is a good look at your spirit and insanely high positive energy.... love that stoke!
Kudos to you for what you do!
Please say hi to Alex for me... really nice man, passionate about his craft!
He couldn't have a better person explaining his gear.... or ripping on it! :)
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I got a good look at him trying to get a cleaner 360 clip.
https://youtu.be/SG_HejeVVAY
One thing you may not know is he giggles the entire session. Great guy to share the lineup with.
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Hi steamroller,
The best think about these vids is getting a good look at the legend himself!
I have seen all the " steamroller" surfing inflatables videos through the years, but he remained as elusive as Bigfoot.
Your vid describing the NL foil and winglets, plus the mouth cam view, is a good look at your spirit and insanely high positive energy.... love that stoke!
Kudos to you for what you do!
Please say hi to Alex for me... really nice man, passionate about his craft!
He couldn't have a better person explaining his gear.... or ripping on it! :)
Aloha! ;D ;D ;D
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I got a good look at him trying to get a cleaner 360 clip.
https://youtu.be/SG_HejeVVAY
One thing you may not know is he giggles the entire session. Great guy to share the lineup with.
cannonBALL!!!! :D :D :D
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I got a good look at him trying to get a cleaner 360 clip.
https://youtu.be/SG_HejeVVAY
One thing you may not know is he giggles the entire session. Great guy to share the lineup with.
Goll dang it...you guys are having just way too much fun up there!!! I gotta get up there sometime to get a share of stoke one time with y'all. :D ;D
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https://youtu.be/dNcTcel6nDA
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I got my first session on the NL220. I want to get a few more under my belt before I make a more complete review, but I'll share initial thoughts. I have primarily been riding GL210 for the last year - well over 100 sessions in all kinds of conditions. I've been using the 14.5" flip tip on a short pedestal, and all I did was bolt on the 220 with no change to the tail setup.
For the first half of my session this morning, I concluded that the NL220 rides a heck of a lot like the GL210. Similar lift, not dramatically faster or anything like that. No major change to wave catching.
Then I moved up the beach to a slightly more critical and fast moving section and started to really see the improvement shine. I was riding the new wing just like the old wing, and it pretty much behaved the same. Then I realized that I can push the 220 much harder into snap turns and carving arcs and it reacts in a way that the GL never does. And if I need to put the pedal down it is there for you.
I actually really like that the wave catch is much smoother. The lift comes on a lot more gently and the foil is more reactive to pitch control by my feet - so I can ease into the wave and work the board out of the water. The GL was kind of either on or off and much more binary in terms of either slogging or flying.
With regards to pumping - it is most definitely easier to cover a lot of ground with the NL, and most definitely easier to whip around onto an oncoming wave. That said, you MUST keep speed up. With GL, I could drop off the back of a wave and work the foil back up to speed with a series of quick aggressive pumps. I couldn't do that at all with the NL - once it is in a hole speed-wise, there is no coming back. You've got to exit the wave with lots of speed, and then you pump it up even faster. I got more 2for1s today than I ever had in a single session.
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I got my first session on the NL220. I want to get a few more under my belt before I make a more complete review, but I'll share initial thoughts. I have primarily been riding GL210 for the last year - well over 100 sessions in all kinds of conditions. I've been using the 14.5" flip tip on a short pedestal, and all I did was bolt on the 220 with no change to the tail setup.
For the first half of my session this morning, I concluded that the NL220 rides a heck of a lot like the GL210. Similar lift, not dramatically faster or anything like that. No major change to wave catching.
Then I moved up the beach to a slightly more critical and fast moving section and started to really see the improvement shine. I was riding the new wing just like the old wing, and it pretty much behaved the same. Then I realized that I can push the 220 much harder into snap turns and carving arcs and it reacts in a way that the GL never does. And if I need to put the pedal down it is there for you.
I actually really like that the wave catch is much smoother. The lift comes on a lot more gently and the foil is more reactive to pitch control by my feet - so I can ease into the wave and work the board out of the water. The GL was kind of either on or off and much more binary in terms of either slogging or flying.
With regards to pumping - it is most definitely easier to cover a lot of ground with the NL, and most definitely easier to whip around onto an oncoming wave. That said, you MUST keep speed up. With GL, I could drop off the back of a wave and work the foil back up to speed with a series of quick aggressive pumps. I couldn't do that at all with the NL - once it is in a hole speed-wise, there is no coming back. You've got to exit the wave with lots of speed, and then you pump it up even faster. I got more 2for1s today than I ever had in a single session.
Jon, Per usual, I appreciate your detail here. I too have been riding the GL210(In surf) and have been considering the NL series.
I am currently at 150LBS and I feel like the GL210 is awesome but too large for me. I am running the legacy tall mast and my white trash hacked maliko blue tail. I love the setup and think I am either going to get the NL160 or NL130 next. I am also going to get the short pedestal and flipped up shorter stab.
-red
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I would imagine gat at 150lbs, the 220 is too big for you. I’m 205 dry
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I noticed something new and interesting this morning on the NL220 - it does much better with particulate in the water! I sometimes surf in spots that have a ton of chopped up seaweed in the water. When I first moved from the IWA to the GL, I noticed immediately that the NL series REALLY doesn't like fouled up water. It'll bog down and come off foil even on a wave. I'm not talking big pieces that are adding a ton of drag like eel grass or whatever - its more like the particulate is spoiling the lift. The IWA never had a problem with it, and now I've learned that the NL seems to work fine too.
Overall, I'm really liking the wing. Just about everything about it is a little bit better than the GL210. That said, the difference is pretty subtle - nothing like the leap from IWA to GL.
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It'll bog down and come off foil even on a wave. I'm not talking big pieces that are adding a ton of drag like eel grass or whatever - its more like the particulate is spoiling the lift.
So funny you say this, because Monday I was flying the Axis 900, and on my 2nd wave I lifted off just fine, made a fun initial drop, popped the wing up, made a turn down the line, and then "Bang!"...it was like I couldn't keep the board off the water....touch down, liftoff, touch back down, pull it back up, wth!? :o
Once I was on the inside and set 'er down, I flipped the board over thinking something'd come loose messing up the geometry. Nope, everything was fine, but there was one strand of eel grass on the mast at the fuse that I pulled off and pondered...nah, one little piece of grass couldn't cause that - could it?
It's not like eel grass is a new thing for us, and I've run through it several times with the expected, unpleasant outcomes. But this time I felt nothing, not even a slight grab, tug, or slowing ever...just the inability to keep the board in the air w/o a concerted effort to pull it up off the water for most of the ride. :-\
Anyway, the rest of the sesh was awesome, and not another problem like that. So maybe these HA wings are just that sensitive to unwanted passengers, and aren't afraid of letting us know it. =)
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Another morning with seaweed crap in the water. Yes, the NL is definitely better behaved in crappy water versus the GL. I have a new theory - I think it has to do with the leading edge sweepback when viewed from above. The IWA had a lot of sweep, and the NL has a lot of sweep even though it is high aspect and thin foil section. The GL doesn't have nearly as much, and I think your axis is also pretty straight on the leading edge.
If there is something spoiling the lift - it gets swept out the tips and beyond. I'm thinking this is the same reason why it is much better behaved in breaches/stalls - any stalled or "aerated" area quickly gets cleared outboard and refilled with clean flowing water.