Standup Zone Forum

The Foil Zone => Wingsurfing, Windfoiling, Wingfoiling, Wing SUP => Topic started by: obxDave on August 12, 2020, 01:17:10 AM

Title: Bizarre injury has me out for awhile
Post by: obxDave on August 12, 2020, 01:17:10 AM
The doc calls it a finger avulsion (also called jersey finger or rugby finger). Happened on the day I was practicing those behind the back wing pass tacks. Basically missed a front hand regrab and didnít let go quite fast enough with the other hand before doing the damage. At the time I didnít think much of it at all. Heck, I smash, jamb, twist my hands/fingers all the time doing water play and constructiony stuff. Even kept riding for another hour, even though it was a bit sore.

A week later and the finger doesnít seem to be improving much so the wife ďstrongly suggestsĒ I get it checked (where would we be without our far more prudent better halves!). Doc looks at it for 5 seconds and says, ďoh yeah that suckerís deviatedĒ,..... and so began my discovery of finger avulsion. Hopefully not a full ligament rupture requiring surgery (seeing a specialist next week), but thereís a small chunk of bone where it shouldnít be (hurts like bitch if you push it the wrong way) and Iím out for at least month if not more.

I donít think this was a boom specific injury. Figure it couldíve happened with handles just as easily. Maybe the lesson is ďwhen in doubt let goĒ but my releases and regrabs happen pretty fast either way working on this move. I figure I held on for about a 1-2 seconds too long. Plenty of time to do the damage.    I was really having fun practicing the move and even found an ok attempt buried in the footage on the same day I did the damage. Oh well, crap happens........

https://youtu.be/9Qm8k7S9gwU
Title: Re: Bizarre injury has me out for awhile
Post by: Admin on August 12, 2020, 01:26:18 AM
Ahhh!  That sucks, Dave.  Well, at least you live in a beautiful area for downtime that will still have great conditions when you have recovered. 
Title: Re: Bizarre injury has me out for awhile
Post by: Wetstuff on August 12, 2020, 05:24:54 AM
Dave, At least you did it 'having fun'.  It's the falls off a ladder cleaning gutters that really pisses you off.  Let's hope the hand-guy doesn't need the work.

Jim
Title: Re: Bizarre injury has me out for awhile
Post by: AGK on August 12, 2020, 06:22:48 AM
What a bummer!!  At least you haven't missed much wind so far.  I wondered when you didn't show yesterday for the first foilable wind we've had in over a week.  I'll miss watching you glide through those 360s while I'm falling in on most of my jibes. 
Title: Re: Bizarre injury has me out for awhile
Post by: Phils on August 12, 2020, 06:44:00 AM
Sorry about your injury and I hope it heals quickly.  Your story highlights an aspect of winging that is different than other foiling activities and that is the higher potential for hand injuries.  Besides all the abrasions we are getting, I have had hyper-extension injuries to my thumb from the leading edge hitting it.  I am learning to keep my fingers closed or at least flexed as much as possible with transferring the wing around and also to let go quickly when things go wrong.
Title: Re: Bizarre injury has me out for awhile
Post by: flkiter on August 12, 2020, 07:03:47 AM
Make sure it heals properly. I've done a few of those Jersey sprains growing up. Ended up putting a bunch of tears in the tendon sheeth causing benign tumors to grow on it. Eventually I had to get the joint pinned and lost the first joint in my middle finger. That's a worse case scenario and takes years to happen with several reccuring injury (handle passes on kite) so when in doubt, let it go.
Title: Re: Bizarre injury has me out for awhile
Post by: VB_Foil on August 12, 2020, 07:24:25 AM
Bummer!  I'm in a similar scenario with some nagging index finger pain.  Mainly between the knuckle joint.  I think I tweaked mine flying the big 6M in light winds and used my finger to steer the wing through a tack or something.  Now if I put lateral pressure on it, it feels like a knife is being stabbed between my fingers.  I wonder if that is similar to yours.

I've started taping my first two fingers together during normal daytime activities to avoid aggravating it and have yet to get back on the water.  Hopefully the taping the fingers will allow me to ride pain free and not make it worse. 
Title: Re: Bizarre injury has me out for awhile
Post by: PonoBill on August 12, 2020, 09:48:02 AM
Well, this may well be a thing.

I injured the little finger on my left hand while winging a few months ago and it's still bothering me. Not consistently, but every so often it just hurts and doesn't want to bend. I try to never close my fingers around the boom and handles for exactly this reason--injuries, arthritic changes, and fatigue result from gripping too hard. One more reason that I think floppy handles suck.

I've broken quite a few of my fingers and toes--mostly windsurfing, but some from racing motorcycles, so it's a bit of a challenge to separate old from new injuries, but I don't think I did anything to that particular finger previously. Most of my fingers and toes point in odd directions. That particular finger is surprisingly straight.
Title: Re: Bizarre injury has me out for awhile
Post by: obxDave on August 12, 2020, 09:52:24 AM
You guys got me thinking if there might be something out there that might slightly reduce the risk of hand/finger injury. Iíve always hated wearing gloves (and booties), but Iíd certainly consider something that wasnít too bulky. Thinking of something related to gymnastic high bar grips that might help (?). I was always expecting to potentially develop some carpel tunnel systems, never a finger injury..

Anyway thereís no way Iím hanging onto a wing anytime soon. I definitely get the ďlet it heal properlyĒ advice.

Have to chuckle; when I first heard ďjersey fingerĒ I had derogatory thoughts about the fineĒGarden StateĒ north of us, only to find out it was referring to those open mesh jerseyís football players would practice in that are great at trapping fingers during tackles :P
Title: Re: Bizarre injury has me out for awhile
Post by: PonoBill on August 12, 2020, 10:04:42 AM
In my experience gloves make the issue worse--certainly true in windsurfing. You need to grip the bar tighter with gloves and they slip easily. In the early days of windsurfing the boom wrap was fairly thick, and screwed up my hands. I stripped it off and sailed with just the residue on the booms for grip--much mo' bettah. I've seen people wrap their SUP shafts with boom grip or use EVA covered handles--ugh. I think all of that is counter-productive. A non-slip grip is good--a squishy one just means you need to grip tighter.
Title: Re: Bizarre injury has me out for awhile
Post by: VB_Foil on August 12, 2020, 12:53:35 PM
So here's my hopeful solution to my issue.  Funny you mentioned a low profile glove Dave! 

Finger Tape Alternative Compression Gloves Pair, Injury Jam Protection Splint & Grip Support for BJJ & Sports

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07C7MCH4B/ref=cm_sw_em_r_mt_dp_4EenFbAECGAC7

I just ordered a pair and I think this will help my trigger fingers current vulnerability.  Apparently these are used in BJJ to prevent and help heal jammed fingers. 

Title: Re: Bizarre injury has me out for awhile
Post by: Lazz on August 12, 2020, 01:12:07 PM
Have a good recovery Dave.

Maybe one or the other old windsurfer guy will remember the yellow fingerless gloves from the 80s 90s. Craig Masonville from HighTech Maui and many other windsurf cracks have always worn them. I think they were called Triump gloves or so and  were made in Indiana if I remember correctly. Made from some cheap textile fabric with a yellow rubber like coating. In any case, these were the best gloves ever for windsurfing even with a sandy boom. They had a great grip and always protected my hands and fingers from calluses and any wear and tear for a long time.I wish they still exist.
Title: Re: Bizarre injury has me out for awhile
Post by: surfcowboy on August 12, 2020, 07:38:41 PM
man, sorry to hear that. Thanks for the heads up. Sounds like you may have helped some folks on here.

My last surf session I had sunscreen on my paddle and it drove me nuts.

Oh, and when I hear ďSandy Boom gave me the Jersey FingerĒ it reminds me of a weekend in Vegas one time.
Title: Re: Bizarre injury has me out for awhile
Post by: obxDave on August 13, 2020, 12:02:58 AM
Thanks for all the comments and input. Amazing how one little damaged knuckle can shut things down. On the bright side itís the right hand (Iím a lefty), and of course a very minor first world problem in the grand scheme of things. Canít grip things normally but I can put on a splint to still do my harbor swim and  bike ride for cardio. Itíll give Andy, Ross and Billy time to shoot past me on skills!

Iím sure everyone here has their list of joint injuries from sports. Mine include an arthritic left ankle from soccer and competitive skiing injuries in high school, low back surgery at age 27 after a severe disc rupture from more skiing (partial permanent muscle atrophy in left leg; had to stop running and switch to bike and swimming), some carpel tunnel from windsurfing in my twenties, plenty of accumulated meniscus tears in both knees after 19 years of kiteboard jumping (no more foot straps for me...). A few broken ribs thrown in for good measure. At least no pins and screws to set off metal detectors!
Title: Re: Bizarre injury has me out for awhile
Post by: styleito on August 13, 2020, 08:51:20 AM
Itíll give Andy, Ross and Billy time to shoot past me on skills!

Unless you think that you'll be down for a very, long time, I think that you'll still be well past us.
Anyway, we'll miss you in the mean time.

BTW, do you think you could still kitefoil?
When I broke my finger a couple of years ago, I was able to kite with my finger splinted.
Title: Re: Bizarre injury has me out for awhile
Post by: Thatspec on August 13, 2020, 09:07:00 AM
My fingers have become the main limiting factor in how often I can do this silly sport. Thankfully the Sacroiliac and low back issues have mostly resolved themselves. The solution has been more or less giving up sailing across or upwind and just doing downwind runs. Very little pull that way holding the sailing handles and that's less than 10% of the time anyway. Surprisingly even holding the LE handle can put significant and strange forces on one hand while resisting the twisting the wing wants to do. A much more rigid LE handle would help.

You secretly wanted a few days off anyway Dave, good luck with the recovery ;D
Title: Re: Bizarre injury has me out for awhile
Post by: PonoBill on August 13, 2020, 09:55:26 AM
You need to try a fake boom. All of these floppy handles are an ergonomic nightmare.
Title: Re: Bizarre injury has me out for awhile
Post by: PonoBill on August 13, 2020, 10:00:58 AM
Thanks for all the comments and input. Amazing how one little damaged knuckle can shut things down. On the bright side itís the right hand (Iím a lefty), and of course a very minor first world problem in the grand scheme of things. Canít grip things normally but I can put on a splint to still do my harbor swim and  bike ride for cardio. Itíll give Andy, Ross and Billy time to shoot past me on skills!

Iím sure everyone here has their list of joint injuries from sports. Mine include an arthritic left ankle from soccer and competitive skiing injuries in high school, low back surgery at age 27 after a severe disc rupture from more skiing (partial permanent muscle atrophy in left leg; had to stop running and switch to bike and swimming), some carpel tunnel from windsurfing in my twenties, plenty of accumulated meniscus tears in both knees after 19 years of kiteboard jumping (no more foot straps for me...). A few broken ribs thrown in for good measure. At least no pins and screws to set off metal detectors!

Wow, that sounds very familiar. My wife calls it "Owie Inventory" and my list goes on and on. A life well-lived. I don't think you get any return credit if you check out with a body in like-new condition. Just don't stop, don't get on the tour bus. If I quit being nuts I'd lock up like a wooden indian.
Title: Re: Bizarre injury has me out for awhile
Post by: obxDave on August 13, 2020, 01:26:13 PM
Itíll give Andy, Ross and Billy time to shoot past me on skills!

Unless you think that you'll be down for a very, long time, I think that you'll still be well past us.
Anyway, we'll miss you in the mean time.

BTW, do you think you could still kitefoil?
When I broke my finger a couple of years ago, I was able to kite with my finger splinted.
Hmmm, never thought about kitefoiling, but Iíll definitely wait till I see the doc next Friday first (soonest I could get in). I used to do the one-handed kiting routine all the time toting around a board while teaching. Iím sure it would be pretty easy with a kite foil,.......although the prudent half might not approve.....Iíll stop down to cheerlead and maybe do some filming either way!

Wow, that sounds very familiar. My wife calls it "Owie Inventory" and my list goes on and on. A life well-lived. I don't think you get any return credit if you check out with a body in like-new condition. Just don't stop, don't get on the tour bus. If I quit being nuts I'd lock up like a wooden indian.
Bill, I see these 20 something kiteboard instructors at already walking around with serious knee braces recovering from ACL surgery, thinking what theyíre gonna look like in their 60ís. Same could be said of extreme snowboarders. However hard we pushed these kids are pushing way harder. Not sure how those joints will survive over time.....

You secretly wanted a few days off anyway Dave, good luck with the recovery ;D
Going from partial to full retirement in 3 months. I might just have cancel one or two of my last customer jobs and spend a little extra time planning the travel trailer purchase :D
Title: Re: Bizarre injury has me out for awhile
Post by: obxDave on September 06, 2020, 11:39:45 PM
Back on the water for the last week (after a month away) and doing well.  Observations:

Unless you have an ďunstableĒ joint that needs full immobilization or even surgery, doc says you just tape it to an adjacent finger so it can still bend and move. Thankfully that was my case. Important to keep it moving/working or it never heals properly and remains stiff/swollen. Too much stress => bad. Not enough movement => bad.

It can take up to 6 months or greater to recover as much as it will, and there might always be residual stiffness/swelling and deformation.

Iíve never used a harness and never had the desire to. Instead I guess Iíve just been able to depower the wing to such low loading levels that I can easily ride upwind with very light pull from the wing and a very light grip, even in screaming winds on my 3.3.  With the finger in its current state I currently ride a bit more depowered than normal.  Easy to do.

The only time I load up the wing with a lot of power (and pull on the hands/arms) is to build speed just before an upwind transition or 360, or if I want to scream upwind really hard. No behind-the-back tacks for now. Need to be even more smooth on those ďregrabsĒ for heel and toeside tacks. So far so good. Switch stance even more important to balance left/right hand loading and reduce finger stress.   Actually need to be most careful when restarting after a fall. After 5 weeks off it was cool to startup right where I left off

Regarding risk of reinjury from winging; sure, always there. Heck if I lift a pot in the kitchen the wrong way I feel it. If you donít keep it moving/working it doesnít fully heal, if you overdo it, you go backwards. Always a fine line
Title: Re: Bizarre injury has me out for awhile
Post by: VB_Foil on September 07, 2020, 05:38:56 AM
Glad to hear you are back on the water.  Fall winds starting to arrive.

 My index finger sprain got worse after a few more sessions, pushing too hard, so I took a week and a half off (which was torture due to days of good wind). Had to limit the finger use in daily life as well. I made a splint out of a thin bar of aluminum, which I bent to match my fingers in a slight grasp shape, and buddy tapped middle and index finger to that. Luckily I could still type for work purposes.

What you said about using it just the right amount seems accurate. Just enough use to not cause that stabbing pain seems to be helping me.  First session the other day went well. Really digging those grappling gloves I linked to previously in this thread.

Word of advice: donít try and steer/hold up a 6m wing through a gybe in zero wind with just your index finger while hold the handle with your other fingers. A gust of wind or just the wings weight can tweak your digit easily.
Title: Re: Bizarre injury has me out for awhile
Post by: obxDave on September 07, 2020, 10:09:07 AM
Glad to hear you are back on the water.  Fall winds starting to arrive.

 My index finger sprain got worse after a few more sessions, pushing too hard, so I took a week and a half off (which was torture due to days of good wind). Had to limit the finger use in daily life as well. I made a splint out of a thin bar of aluminum, which I bent to match my fingers in a slight grasp shape, and buddy tapped middle and index finger to that. Luckily I could still type for work purposes.

What you said about using it just the right amount seems accurate. Just enough use to not cause that stabbing pain seems to be helping me.  First session the other day went well. Really digging those grappling gloves I linked to previously in this thread.

Word of advice: donít try and steer/hold up a 6m wing through a gybe in zero wind with just your index finger while hold the handle with your other fingers. A gust of wind or just the wings weight can tweak your digit easily.


I think Iím gonna go for those grappling gloves you linked to. The ace bandage routine is really crude and it constantly comes undone while Iím riding. Itís pretty clear that at week 6 the large knuckle  of my right middle finger isnít gonna shrink down to normal size anytime soon :o. (even the ring finger knuckle took a wee bit of damage)
Title: Re: Bizarre injury has me out for awhile
Post by: VB_Foil on September 07, 2020, 11:47:16 AM
Yowza!  That looks painful.  The gloves will help protect your ring finger too, as itís snugged up to your pinky finger.

My injury is in between where the index and middle finger meet, so not out on the finger like yours.  You will love the gloves though. Nice amount of grip built in. Hopefully that works well and holds up with your boom.
Title: Re: Bizarre injury has me out for awhile
Post by: PonoBill on September 07, 2020, 03:43:45 PM
I've broken my fingers too many times to count. Ace bandage doesn't really cut it. Too much flex. I use duct tape. Pro tip: When you want to replace it cut both sides between the fingers and peel the tape off axially, not laterally.

Fingers never heal so that they look normal again, but they work OK. I was going to say fine, but that isn't accurate. I look like a bear cub trying to pick up a penny fairly often, but I can still do fine work like repairing iPhones, soldering surface mount components and such silly stuff.

There's no reason to stay out of the water, it won't help. I broke the index and middle finger on my left hand in a motocross race and I gave it a month to heal with splints. Those are actually my second worst fingers for flexibility. The worst is the third finger on my right hand and I don't even know what I did to it. The worst looking is the index left--I broke it twice in one year and never quit picking my nose. It flexes well even though it has a pronounced S-curve and a little rotation.

I do like the look of those gloves though. I've ordered two pair. It's good to have one pair drying. You can strip off a wet glove but putting on on is likely to cause more damage than it prevents.
Title: Re: Bizarre injury has me out for awhile
Post by: PonoBill on September 07, 2020, 09:20:56 PM
I'm pretty sure my career as a hand model is officially over. Then again, compared to my toes, my hands are downright pretty.
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