Standup Zone Forum

Stand Up Paddle => Gear Talk => Topic started by: miker on August 10, 2020, 12:38:13 PM

Title: Anything out there similar to the Hammer?
Post by: miker on August 10, 2020, 12:38:13 PM
I had been planning to buy a Supsports Hammer from Wardog as my next upgrade in the next year or two.  He seems to have retired from the business which leaves me looking for a new plan.  I'm 6'1" and about 210 lbs.  I'm looking for a wider board - around 32" - and liked the design of the Hammer a lot.  Volume wise I'd like to keep it over 150L.  I currently ride a 10'5" wide point.  I tried a whopper once down in Mexico and loved it.  I consider myself a beginner to intermediate sup surfer.

What I think I want in a new board is shorter with a bit broader tail.  I find the wide point 'locks in' to a path and, at least for me, it's hard to get far enough back to get it to turn fast enough.  Whether that's board or rider is another question, I guess.
Title: Re: Anything out there similar to the Hammer?
Post by: Mmac on August 22, 2020, 01:55:49 PM
If you liked the Hammer, try a JL Destroyer.  The JL is a much better all around surf board. I've had a couple Hammers.
Title: Re: Anything out there similar to the Hammer?
Post by: Badger on August 23, 2020, 04:35:17 AM
+1 on the Destroyer. I would choose that over the Hammer any day. Jimmy has some great shapes.
Title: Re: Anything out there similar to the Hammer?
Post by: Dusk Patrol on August 23, 2020, 09:55:53 AM
Hey Miker

I have the 9’8″ X 31.75 X 160 liter Destroyer and love it. I feel like I don’t ever have to look for another board ... which is saying something for me : )

I chose the 9’8 because of personal preference for cruise-y style riding. But there is also a 9’3 X 31.5 X 160L. Btw I’m 5’8 185 lbs.

Another option is a Blue Planet Turbo, at 9’10 X 33 X 161L. It has a rounded pin. I have its little brother Fun Stick at 9’4 X 33 X 140L. I’d recommend that but it’s below your volume preference. The Turbo is super stable but turns. I’ve never surfed the 10’5 Widepoint, but suspect its being slow to turn is mostly due to length.

Then there’s always the 9’5 Whopper ‘Junior’ (33” X 166L). A well respected board that will for sure turn more from the middle than your WP.

And if you really like th flat Simmons tail, check out L41’s shapes, like the PopDart and Bruce Wayne

http://www.l41surfcraft.com/models-sup
Title: Re: Anything out there similar to the Hammer?
Post by: TallDude on August 23, 2020, 12:22:10 PM
Hey Miker

I have the 98″ X 31.75 X 160 liter Destroyer and love it. I feel like I dont ever have to look for another board ... which is saying something for me : )

I chose the 98 because of personal preference for cruise-y style riding. But there is also a 93 X 31.5 X 160L. Btw Im 58 185 lbs.

Another option is a Blue Planet Turbo, at 910 X 33 X 161L. It has a rounded pin. I have its little brother Fun Stick at 94 X 33 X 140L. Id recommend that but its below your volume preference. The Turbo is super stable but turns. Ive never surfed the 105 Widepoint, but suspect its being slow to turn is mostly due to length.

Then theres always the 95 Whopper Junior (33 X 166L). A well respected board that will for sure turn more from the middle than your WP.

And if you really like th flat Simmons tail, check out L41s shapes, like the PopDart and Bruce Wayne

http://www.l41surfcraft.com/models-sup

+1 on the L41. Short with wide tails and they just rip. My favorite. Here's a video of me on my first time out on my 8'8 x 32 146 l  L41 ST. I kept out running the wave because the wide tails are so much faster that a board with a pulled in tail. They feel more like a skim board. You push on the tail to control your speed, and they accelerate. A few sessions later and I figured out that I have to cut back to control my speed. The board is very lively, skatey, and loose. 100% stoke for me.
https://youtu.be/qirZCIlPGVw

 
Title: Re: Anything out there similar to the Hammer?
Post by: BigZ on August 23, 2020, 01:29:41 PM
+1 on the Destroyer. I would choose that over the Hammer any day. Jimmy has some great shapes.

Another vote for the Destroyer. I had the Supsports Stoke and now ride the Destroyer as one of my primary boards. Destroyer is in a different class - both shape and construction wise.

I am 64 and 240 pounds and ride the 85 Destroyer. Super fun, super stable.
Title: Re: Anything out there similar to the Hammer?
Post by: southwesterly on August 23, 2020, 06:20:18 PM
I own a few different Hammers (95 x 33 and a 9'0" x 32") and a L41 that is 93 x 33.

The Hammer is a fast and super stable board being thick with a very flat deck. With stepped rails, the L41 might not be as stable, but it is the fastest and loosest stand up board that Ive ever owned.

I still own both and will take the Hammer out if the wind is up, but the L41 is more skatey with a race car feeling.
Title: Re: Anything out there similar to the Hammer?
Post by: PonoBill on August 23, 2020, 07:48:40 PM
Southwest, I was thinking the same thing. I liked Wardog boards, though they were never my favorites. I also have an L41 and it's such a different board from any of the other boards mentioned here. Very fast, very loose, a little hard to control but in a fast or pitching wave it would always be my first choice. But stability is not the strong suit and the sweet spot for just standing on the board and paddling it is ridiculously tine.
Title: Re: Anything out there similar to the Hammer?
Post by: PonoBill on August 24, 2020, 06:01:42 PM
Oops, meant "tiny" not tine.

This is what I did with my Wardog board. No reflection on the board other than the fact that it was the prettiest SUP I have in my collection, so perfect for a shower backsplash.

(https://i2.wp.com/www.ponostyle.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/IMG_4371.jpg?ssl=1)
Title: Re: Anything out there similar to the Hammer?
Post by: TallDude on August 24, 2020, 07:18:58 PM
Nice touch with the Shark Bite fittings. Almost looks like a manufactured fixture, but way better. The sweat connections on the shower curtain is a more structural way to go for sure. Nicely done. I did notice the board too.
Title: Re: Anything out there similar to the Hammer?
Post by: PonoBill on August 24, 2020, 09:00:22 PM
I need to redo the shower curtain rod. It's a bit flimsy. I'm thinking something trellised, like a Ducati frame.
Title: Re: Anything out there similar to the Hammer?
Post by: Dusk Patrol on August 25, 2020, 11:01:39 AM
I suggest...  a ducati frame.... (or two)

But seriously, what fin set up are you running? 
Title: Re: Anything out there similar to the Hammer?
Post by: Dusk Patrol on August 25, 2020, 11:03:45 AM
TD's video makes me want to move to SoCal... nice!
Title: Re: Anything out there similar to the Hammer?
Post by: TallDude on August 25, 2020, 11:24:40 AM
It's been like that for the past week now. I've been surfing dawn patrol almost every morning. It's been glassy and the water was 78 deg yesterday. I'm very fortunate to live where I do. I grew up here but I definitely appreciate it more now than ever.
Title: Re: Anything out there similar to the Hammer?
Post by: PonoBill on August 25, 2020, 07:43:44 PM
My L41 has very similar specs though it's a custom. 8'8" X 31. the tail is different--it's square, and currently  has both a Tuttle and tracks for foils cut into the bottom, but I won't be foiling on it anymore, might as well surf it. It's one of the few boards I've ever used that felt about as fast as a foil board. At Rincon I went from the indicator to the cove and beyond, one wave. I've never even come close to that with other boards.
Title: Re: Anything out there similar to the Hammer?
Post by: Old School 213 on August 25, 2020, 08:37:44 PM
Funny, I still have a 10'5" widepoint and the board that I went to after that was an L41 S4, probably very similar to the one Bill stabbed a foil mount into but mine is 32" wide.  I liked the S4 a lot and not seeing that on the L41 menu anymore I'd give them a call or see who you can beg, borrow or steal a ride from.

We've got similar dimensions (except for my Covid-19#).
Title: Re: Anything out there similar to the Hammer?
Post by: miker on September 19, 2020, 05:05:52 PM
Thanks to everyone so far for your comments and advice.  I'd almost given up on anyone responding and then remembered today that I'd posted here and thought I'd check.  Much information to absorb and research now.  Thanks everyone for your assistance.
Title: Re: Anything out there similar to the Hammer?
Post by: Billekrub on September 20, 2020, 12:03:25 PM
PonoBill,

You mentioned the L41 was fast and good for fast waves.  How about for slow mushy waves where it is more difficult to get speed?  As it is short, does it require a much later takeoff, or, can one accelerate enough to compensate?

Nice shower design!
Title: Re: Anything out there similar to the Hammer?
Post by: TallDude on September 20, 2020, 08:15:23 PM
I surf my L41 just about every other day. It works in the small mushy stuff too. The thing about a Simmons design is very straight rails and wide tails. The straight rails allow it to glide almost like a longboard, and the wide tail gives you lift to keep you going on the small mushy stuff. I would say that my custom 9' green machine with a pulled in tail which I shaped, is easier to handle in the overhead stuff. But it's not good in the small mushy stuff. I can control the L41 on OH waves, but it's crazy fast and can get squirrelly. 
Title: Re: Anything out there similar to the Hammer?
Post by: surfcowboy on September 20, 2020, 08:17:20 PM
Simmons tail is made to make speed out of nothing.
Title: Re: Anything out there similar to the Hammer?
Post by: Billekrub on September 22, 2020, 09:54:39 PM
Thanks for the invaluable insight.  That leaves ease of catching waves.  Usually the short, wide-tail Simmons needs a later takeoff, or, a more precise positioning and wave selection.

How does one get the best of both:  mush speed, and early takeoff?  Make it longer like a Sunova Speed or ask for a custom "stretch"?  Learn to accelerate the board while paddling?  Find that the wider tail needs less speed for the wave to "grab" it.  ????
Title: Re: Anything out there similar to the Hammer?
Post by: Mmac on September 23, 2020, 05:09:54 PM
Simmons shape boards are definitely fast but those wide tails remind me of "one turn wonders".  After owning and riding a few, I found they like to make one turn then race down the line.  Cool if that's what you're into.  However, I prefer continuous turns and quick cutbacks that narrower tail boards provide.
Title: Re: Anything out there similar to the Hammer?
Post by: PonoBill on September 23, 2020, 09:36:41 PM
I consider my L41 to be the quickest turning board I've ridden. That's probably because I generally ride larger SUPs that don't exactly rip. It's not the board I'd choose to be on in mushy junk, but it works in those conditions, it works in anything, it just doesn't shine. In a steeper wave it's just great, and as long as you move your back foot to the rail you're turning on, it cranks turns with authority.

I've never noticed that it takes a later drop. It can certainly handle late drops better than my bigger boards, but it's not necessary. My biggest problem with the board is how small the sweet spot is and how easy it is to pitch forward or back when you're angling for a wave, But once I'm aimed the right way and paddling for the wave it's an easy board to catch whatever you want. I found early on that I could kind of kick it into a wave with a big reach, hard pull and shoving forward with my feet. Almost foolproof. I got the idea from a friend who rides little sinkers--he does that all the time.

Mine is set up as a quad using Futures Controllers, which radically changed the way the board turns. Previously, with normal plastic quad dolphins it turned kind of deliberately. With the Controllers it whips.  But even still, you can't ride it from a fixed position and get the best out of it, you have to move your back foot decisively to the turning rail. In overhead stuff it's a bit spooky. I probably wouldn't think so now, since i'm used to foiling speeds, but it feels like 95 percent of the board is out of the water when it's really flying, and it gets nervous--or maybe that's just me. There have been times when I really didn't want to fall--I thought i'd be leaving pieces of me everywhere. I go faster than that on a foil now and I've fallen plenty of times, so I've got a lot of practice at not losing bits.
Title: Re: Anything out there similar to the Hammer?
Post by: jpeter on September 24, 2020, 11:14:56 AM
I ordered one of these yesterday (8'6 130L) : https://shop.foilandco.com/en/product/sealion-wings-board/

I love them,  and have owned 9' 150L traditional model and surf the 8'3 135L traditional model now.  "WINGS" adds foil slot is carbon and supposed to be faster and more turny.   I paddlesurf and windsup them about equally.

Board bag I bought for the 8'3 was a Supsports and supposed to be for the hammer.  Turns out the board bag is a POS,  zipper failed and handles have ripped off.  Any Ideas of a new board bag that fits a wide tail?
JP
Title: Re: Anything out there similar to the Hammer?
Post by: dietlin on September 24, 2020, 12:19:47 PM
Get a 95″x31″x4.15″ (147L) Jimmy Lewis Striker.  Extremely stable for its size.  Fast and easy to turn.  Works great in small to medium sized waves - the conditions a self-described beginner to intermediate will mostly find himself in. 
Title: Re: Anything out there similar to the Hammer?
Post by: miker on September 24, 2020, 03:42:49 PM
Funny, I still have a 10'5" widepoint and the board that I went to after that was an L41 S4, probably very similar to the one Bill stabbed a foil mount into but mine is 32" wide.  I liked the S4 a lot and not seeing that on the L41 menu anymore I'd give them a call or see who you can beg, borrow or steal a ride from.

We've got similar dimensions (except for my Covid-19#).

Looking at their web site (such as it is) I suspect the S4 has been replaced by the S5?
Title: Re: Anything out there similar to the Hammer?
Post by: miker on September 24, 2020, 03:48:50 PM
Get a 95″x31″x4.15″ (147L) Jimmy Lewis Striker.  Extremely stable for its size.  Fast and easy to turn.  Works great in small to medium sized waves - the conditions a self-described beginner to intermediate will mostly find himself in.

Interesting.  I surf more than half the time in Tofino (closest surf break to my house - 2.5 hr drive).  Conditions there are usually waist to huge, although I tend to stick to head high max.  It's almost always choppy, noticable primary and secondary swells with up to 2' chop on top of that.  I'm thinking 147L might be a bit of a stretch for me right now coming down from 178 on my current board.  Of course maybe it would just last longer before I need to upgrade and be a bit of work to get used to at the start.  My brother kind of regrets going under 160L when he upgraded last (and I bought his old board).
Title: Re: Anything out there similar to the Hammer?
Post by: dietlin on September 24, 2020, 06:34:32 PM
It's tempting to get fixated on volume, but wetted area, which the Striker has plenty of, is prolly more important.
Title: Re: Anything out there similar to the Hammer?
Post by: BigZ on September 24, 2020, 08:21:35 PM
Get a 95″x31″x4.15″ (147L) Jimmy Lewis Striker.  Extremely stable for its size.  Fast and easy to turn.  Works great in small to medium sized waves - the conditions a self-described beginner to intermediate will mostly find himself in.

Interesting.  I surf more than half the time in Tofino (closest surf break to my house - 2.5 hr drive).  Conditions there are usually waist to huge, although I tend to stick to head high max.  It's almost always choppy, noticable primary and secondary swells with up to 2' chop on top of that.  I'm thinking 147L might be a bit of a stretch for me right now coming down from 178 on my current board.  Of course maybe it would just last longer before I need to upgrade and be a bit of work to get used to at the start.  My brother kind of regrets going under 160L when he upgraded last (and I bought his old board).

I would argue that unnecessary volume is in fact detrimental to stability in chop. A voluminous  board (with exposed deck and rails) will be affected by chop much more than lower volume board where rails are submerged. I find that the volume to weight ratio of around 1.1 (including the weight of a board and fins)  is the most optimal. My 130l JL Destroyer is my most stable board in rough, choppy and windy conditions. Much more stable that my higher volume (and wider) SUP Sports Stoke board. For reference I am 240 pounds and 6'4.

Title: Re: Anything out there similar to the Hammer?
Post by: miker on October 14, 2020, 09:59:26 AM
I would argue that unnecessary volume is in fact detrimental to stability in chop. A voluminous  board (with exposed deck and rails) will be affected by chop much more than lower volume board where rails are submerged. I find that the volume to weight ratio of around 1.1 (including the weight of a board and fins)  is the most optimal. My 130l JL Destroyer is my most stable board in rough, choppy and windy conditions. Much more stable that my higher volume (and wider) SUP Sports Stoke board. For reference I am 240 pounds and 6'4.

This is an interesting take and as I read more it seems to be a popular opinion.  Our very limited experience has been that we've lost stability as we've gone down in volume.  Perhaps it's a result of our early stages of skill building.  Maybe I'll try my brother's 8'11" AllWave a bit and see how it goes.

Also, in my internet searching of various forums, the Sunova Shroom came up.  They have a dealer not too far from here.  I wonder how it paddles out through a beach break and handles head high waves.  I've had a tab open with the Destroyer on it for about a month now.  Shipping to Vancouver Island is likely a bit of an issue.  We have a cottage on the Big Island, but it's rented out currently.  If I ordered a board at a time when we are there it would be so easy with JL on Oahu.  A local shop here carries Starboard which makes the Whopper Jr. attractive (I found the whopper very easy to tail turn).
Title: Re: Anything out there similar to the Hammer?
Post by: miker on October 14, 2020, 11:23:12 AM
Here's some video of my home beaches (2 1/2 hour drive!) on nice days without a lot of wind or chop.  Closes out quick most of the time, period is usually pretty short.  Bad days have short period (6s) plus a secondary swell and up to 2 ft. chop:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aJpt99wOjes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tWnnhJ9s6aY
Title: Re: Anything out there similar to the Hammer?
Post by: Dusk Patrol on October 14, 2020, 01:25:39 PM
I've had a tab open with the Destroyer on it for about a month now.  Shipping to Vancouver Island is likely a bit of an issue.

Miker I sent you PM
Title: Re: Anything out there similar to the Hammer?
Post by: NorthJerzSurfer on October 14, 2020, 05:18:23 PM
just read this whole thread and would steer you towards the l41 ST.  I have one and have rode the destroyer and the shroom.

The shroom is an 'only' mushy wave board in my opinion.   Its a somehwat worse version of L41's simmons design nad tough to ride in the pocket.  I loved it when i demoed it...but i like the l41 st more.

the destroyer and the ST are opposite ends of the wave catching specurum in my opinion.  The destroyer gets you in a little earlier with its length and volume up front(assuming popular dims on both) but its not nearly as fast on the wave.  I drop in very late on my st and like many have said on the zone....has an immediate gas pedal.

in the end....getting down the wave quick is the goal on a sup and IMO catching and riding waves you cant on a prone board.  the ST gets me down racy waves faster which means more options on a wave and potentially more fun on closeouts and mushburgers.,

Title: Re: Anything out there similar to the Hammer?
Post by: miker on October 18, 2020, 11:24:47 AM
just read this whole thread and would steer you towards the l41 ST.  I have one and have rode the destroyer and the shroom.

The shroom is an 'only' mushy wave board in my opinion.   Its a somehwat worse version of L41's simmons design nad tough to ride in the pocket.  I loved it when i demoed it...but i like the l41 st more.

the destroyer and the ST are opposite ends of the wave catching specurum in my opinion.  The destroyer gets you in a little earlier with its length and volume up front(assuming popular dims on both) but its not nearly as fast on the wave.  I drop in very late on my st and like many have said on the zone....has an immediate gas pedal.

in the end....getting down the wave quick is the goal on a sup and IMO catching and riding waves you cant on a prone board.  the ST gets me down racy waves faster which means more options on a wave and potentially more fun on closeouts and mushburgers.,

Thanks for taking the time and giving me your feedback.  More fun on closeouts is a big one for me since most Tofino beaches close out all at once and fairly early.  You are certainly not the first in this thread to make this suggestion and L41  ST and S5 are moving up my list.  How do you think it compares to something like the Sunova Flow (or now Flow/Casey) or the Genration Kanga?  Or alternately, any idea on how L41 manages shipping to Canada?
Title: Re: Anything out there similar to the Hammer?
Post by: NorthJerzSurfer on October 18, 2020, 12:05:13 PM
I'd reach out directly to Kirk on the shipping. In a pre-covid 'open border' world i shipped a board to SurfAfrica who rides Tofino to a friend he had in Washington and he drove to to get it rather than trying to ship cross border (His idea to make it easier)

on the boards below. Ive ridden the Flow and the Flash. Havent ridden the Kanga but I own a Genration wedge (And have discussed the Genrations a ton with Supthecreek and their reps when i ordered) I'd def ask his feedback on all things Genration

I think the Flow is a dated design at this point.  its just a blown up surfboard, an all terrain tire- works in everything- excels in none.  I sold a 'flow' type shape to move the the L41 ST.

I think Genraton is onto something with their designs- in good waves my Wedge is unbeatable.  But its very tippy and fickle when not actually doing anything but ripping on a wave.

If I was to add another board to my two board quiver it would be a SP25.  It would fit between the 'good wave' ripper- the Wedge- and my Mushy and or choppy wave L41 ST.

If I only had to have one SUP, and I only supped (I prone surf about 50% of the time),  it probably would be something like the Kanga or SP 25 to work on the largest variety of  waves.



Title: Re: Anything out there similar to the Hammer?
Post by: miker on October 19, 2020, 10:57:57 AM
I'd reach out directly to Kirk on the shipping. In a pre-covid 'open border' world i shipped a board to SurfAfrica who rides Tofino to a friend he had in Washington and he drove to to get it rather than trying to ship cross border (His idea to make it easier)

on the boards below. Ive ridden the Flow and the Flash. Havent ridden the Kanga but I own a Genration wedge (And have discussed the Genrations a ton with Supthecreek and their reps when i ordered) I'd def ask his feedback on all things Genration

I think the Flow is a dated design at this point.  its just a blown up surfboard, an all terrain tire- works in everything- excels in none.  I sold a 'flow' type shape to move the the L41 ST.

I think Genraton is onto something with their designs- in good waves my Wedge is unbeatable.  But its very tippy and fickle when not actually doing anything but ripping on a wave.

If I was to add another board to my two board quiver it would be a SP25.  It would fit between the 'good wave' ripper- the Wedge- and my Mushy and or choppy wave L41 ST.

If I only had to have one SUP, and I only supped (I prone surf about 50% of the time),  it probably would be something like the Kanga or SP 25 to work on the largest variety of  waves.

I emailed Kirk and he said in the neighbourhood of $300 to ship.  Thanks for all of your feedback, it really helps me understand what I'm doing here.  Kirk also suggested an ST from his line up and is familiar with Tofino surfing.  He recommended an 8'8" x 32 @ 155L size, which is in the zone I think I should be going to.  Fortunately, I'm not in a great rush and can take time to make up my mind on this.  Time also means maybe the border will open, in which case, I could take a road trip down to Santa Cruz to pick up a board - and enjoy a lot of surf breaks along the way.  Maybe even head down to Ensenada/San Quintin area or as far as San Juanico if it's pumping at all (went there in early March, but only knee high at best then).
SimplePortal 2.3.7 © 2008-2020, SimplePortal