Standup Zone Forum
The Foil Zone => Wingsurfing, Windfoiling, Wingfoiling, Wing SUP => Topic started by: surfcowboy on July 26, 2020, 09:41:47 AM
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Ok for those of us who teeter on the edge of having enough wind to do this sport and who have no idea what wind speeds feel like, I offer this.
https://www.instagram.com/tv/CDEm4FkJtIu/?igshid=2guwhihs9hft
What is your guess on the wind speed there?
I ask because on my weather app and surfline they will report 10mph when it’s white capping like hell and is nearly impossible to SUP. These conditions don’t look like “less than 15” unless that means “half of 15.” Last week “13” looked like a small day at the gorge with whitecaps everywhere.
What gives? Are we just being under reported or what?
Help us, oh wind sport oracles.
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When I started kiting in ~2002 many showed up with little hand meters. For me, the bottom mark became 'glossy water'; "Forget it, ju're not kiting today." It pretty much held for both the ocean and bayside (<1/4mi over the barrier island)
It was 'pretty glossy' in the video, but shot high up and with all the lumps it's harder to tell. Still, he was doing it without any wobbly moments that I remember. ' Good one.
Jim
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You cannot go by “looking” unless it’s your home spot. So many factors affect the “look”
Same with photos....you have to trust what the person says posting the photo or video.
I get clowns commenting on my YouTube about seeing lots of whitecaps and claiming they know better than me what the wind speed was. Duh, a super zoom lens makes it appear to be nuking in a gnat fart.
Then you add in current.....don’t get me started.
The wind was about 14-15 when Laitham got that session at the pier.
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Excellent knowledge. I figured something had to be up. I read the weather observation guides and the ranges are pretty wide so clearly room for error. I’m sure that offshores look different than onshore etc.
I’m such a weather geek I ought to get one of those handheld testers. Let me go find that thread again...
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My thoughts exactly wrt "Low wind conditions", and thinking one is going to learn to how to wingfoil in them. Because like you, at my home break, if two guys out in the lineup fart at the same time...the dang place whitecaps all of a sudden. :-[
The other day for instance, Surfline was saying 9-10 mph and it seemed pretty gusty with the common sheep coming home...so I pulled out the trusty anemometer and read - 6's, 7's, and an occasional 8+ gust but that was it - not enough to wing, but enough to make it a PITA to try to SUP foil in. Another similar story from about a year ago...
We're there on a typical beautiful summer early afternoon when suddenly and unexpectedly, the clouds rolled in, the wind picked up, the water churned up, and the sand started blowing up. Chuck Patterson was there with one of the few (if not only) wingfoils at the beach at the time, so grabbed it out his truck, pumped it up, but never took it out...saying that, "It's just not windy enough yet"...wtf? :o
Now granted, he did have one of the earlier Naish 4M wings when that's all Naish offered at the time, but even so I'm thinking....JC, it's so freakin' windy that I'm getting sandblasted here that I can't remember happening in I don't know how long ago (because when the wind starts blowing, I start heading for home), and "it just not windy enough" for one of these wingding things? Crazy.
How I ever let my buddies talk me into a 7M "that'll work good in our light wind" is f'n beyond me. Because just as it happened with Chuck last year, the other day when it was "6's, 7's, and an occasional 8+ gust", and looked like victory at sea out there...none of my good buddies thought it was windy enough for their 7Ms either, and didn't even take them out of their vehicles. So I may have another wingding that never ever gets wet before I finally decide to just get rid of it again. Ugh... :(
Maybe I can trade it for some Axis Foil stuff if anyone's interested in making the swap...lemme know. ;) ;D
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Ya Dave good luck wingfoiling at SanO in the typical summer winds. Plan on taking a trip up to Belmont when the surf is flat you'll have blast up there when it's blowing solid 20 mph. IMHO winging isn't really that much fun unless it's blowing in the high teens. These inflatable blimps are super draggy and inefficient. I gave up inflatable kites long ago and inflatable wings are not different. I have a 7m Echo on order that I hope will bring my wind threshold down a few mph but I don't really believe all the light wind talk on this forum especially coming from the guys in the gorge. Light wind there isn't the same as light wind in other locales.
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I don't really believe all the light wind talk on this forum especially coming from the guys in the gorge. Light wind there isn't the same as light wind in other locales.
This is a fair point. I am in Connecticut this summer. Wind blows, BLOWS, 10 to 12 regularly all day. Barely blips to 14 when my heart jumps and then drops to 9 mph.
However the foil may change everything. The challenge will be if people in light air locations can learn without 100 days of experience. I still have 2 days with lots of hope.
Keep the reports coming.
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Hi Beasho,
You will be foiling in 12 MPH in very short order. Almost any (air) wing pumping technique will get you airborne in that wind on a big enough foil and with the right wing. You already have a ton of experience where it counts. Time On The Foil. You know what to expect from the foil and how to adjust and take advantage once you lift off. The rest is frosting.
Light air can be exhausting. If the lulls are going below the threshold where the wing will fly itself, give you any lift to get to your feet, or even support you on your knees, you can wear yourself out very quickly (and it is kind of painful). I know that a lot of people will wait out sessions with those lulls even if the gusts are doable. Those can be very humbling but also a lot of fun sessions. It depends how long it has been since it has been windy :).
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Another nice low wind vid.
https://youtu.be/5ubabXrQQp8
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SanO I feel ya. Our spots get ruined above 7-8 mph too but that won’t get you anywhere. I’m gonna track wind speed for a while before I take on another sport. But you can bet that my next Texas trips will be my boot camp. Maybe finally I’ll get some fun out of that devil wind in the Gulf.
Thx guys for the sanity check.
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Most wind measurement locations are on land and don't really accurately reflect the wind speed on the water. I always expect at least a few MPH higher. If you see whitecaps at all that aren't simply current or underwater geography generated then you're good to go if you have the right equipment and can pump up onto the foil with wing and foot pumping.
Yesterday afternoon Admin got me to go to Stevenson even though the rest of the gorge was glass. there was perhaps 10-12 mph wind in the middle of the river and next to nothing close to shore. I went out on the 1150 with a 6M F-one and was able to get up and ride--lots of work, but it's really fun ghosting around in nothing.
Sano, I might be up for a trade, but the stuff I've got to sell/trade might not be what your looking for. Masts, a standard fuselage, 1020 or 920 wing and 500 stab.
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MOVE.... ;D
Where we have lived....since discovering wind sports in 1979, has always been based on wind and weather. North Carolina, and now Florida. Yes, Florida is windy, when you live in the right spot.
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Hey Dave,
After our mutual hassles with getting our Gong V1 7m wings last summer I got a quiver of Fone wings and pretty much gave up on the 7m. When I did try it on really light slop onshore days I would be out there flapping that 7m wing like a fool and whining about only short runs in the gusts. When you posted that video of your buddy on his V2 Gong wing at a lake I decided to give my 7m another try -only this time I decided to see what would happen if I pumped the wing up to max recommended 10psi instead of the usual 8. I figured if it exploded it would at least be entertaining. Wow! That thing pretty much flew along by itself. All I had to do was pump my backhand like a windsurf sail and I got instant power. Had one of my best sessions ever on my 6’6” Kalama with an Axis 1020/440 kit. Now I kinda understand more how important it is to have a stiff leading edge on these things.
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I routinely go at least 2 pounds high on my f-ones for exactly that reason. Admin goes higher. I'm always waiting to hear the bang.
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I routinely go at least 2 pounds high on my f-ones for exactly that reason. Admin goes higher. I'm always waiting to hear the bang.
You won’t hear a bang Bill.. You’ll hear a tic-tic-tic sound.
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DW, I am seriously considering winters in FL now that I foil lol. It’s really that bad. I get why Erik A says it’s a paradise. That mushy short period stuff looks so fun now.
It’s going to be wild to watch what happens to surf tourism if this stuff takes off. Jacksonville will be our new North Shore. ;D
“Yeah, I’m just back from South Padre. I do the tour in Winter so it’s Padre to JAX or Daytona for the big stuff.” Haha.
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The gorge was dead flat today, 102 degrees and the river looks like a 100-mile long mirror. I took my daughter and grandson to the event center to cool off and just goof around in the water. The easiest SUP board to grab was my ancient Starboard 12'2" which is challenge for almost anyone to stand on. It was entertaining to watch my grandson find new ways to fall off it. In the late afternoon I pulled my foil board out of the truck and paddled around on it just for something to ride. When I got out into the middle of the river I felt a light breeze building so I went back and blew up my 6M.
The wind got up to about 5-6mph, enough to hold my wing up. so I cruised out slowly and saw cat's paws headed my way, a little gust. I started pumping hard and bouncing on the board. A boat wake from one of the many ski boats running by gave me a little ramp and I got up. Once I was up on the 1150, I was gold. I did a few long reaches across the river as the wind picked up to probably 10mph in the middle and bit less on the sides. Even if I touch down in a jibe with the 1150 the residual speed gives me enough oomph to switch feet and get back up.
Then it was time to go. Two kiters--both with the weird super long wings with the ram-looking leading edges, and one windfoiler with a monster sail--probably 9M, and as I was coming to the beach another wingfoiler was headed out. Nice evening. I was on for cooking this evening or I would have stayed--I do love ghosting about on tiny amounts of wind, pumping through the lulls and connecting little puffs.
I barbequed King Salmon and roasted some nice fresh corn, Diane made corn spoon bread, sauteed baby zuccini from the garden, a rhubarb/blueberry/ginger cake, and coffee ice cream infused with Pendelton rye whisky. Nice dinner with the kids.
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DW, I am seriously considering winters in FL now that I foil lol. It’s really that bad. I get why Erik A says it’s a paradise. That mushy short period stuff looks so fun now.
It’s going to be wild to watch what happens to surf tourism if this stuff takes off. Jacksonville will be our new North Shore. ;D
“Yeah, I’m just back from South Padre. I do the tour in Winter so it’s Padre to JAX or Daytona for the big stuff.” Haha.
North of the Cape (Canaveral) in Winter is like going to the North Pole. You might as well be in NC. South of the Cape, the water usually doesn’t dip below 70 degrees for more than a few days. Jacksonville gets 50 degree water!
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I am curious as to low wind conditions too.
For wind meter, I like to use:
https://hallwindmeter.com/collections/frontpage/products/hall-wind-meter (https://hallwindmeter.com/collections/frontpage/products/hall-wind-meter)
It is simple by design, and shows gusts/lulls very well, better than more expensive digital devices.
I got in the habit of taking a measurement before and after a session, to get an idea of what size gear worked well in certain wind ranges.
For those that don't use wind meters, there is the beaufort scale:
https://www.rmets.org/resource/beaufort-scale (https://www.rmets.org/resource/beaufort-scale)
In DavidJohn's video, I would guess a beaufort 3.5, based on how the pop tents were moving in the video.
For low wind, the Gong Wing Superpower seems to come in the biggest size (9M), which has a published low end of 6-8 knots depending on the weight of the rider. I've owned big kites, been well powered at 9 knots, happy if they stay in the air at 6 knots. I always called kitesurfing the lazy man's surfing. I definitely get more exercise stand up paddle surfing. But it is really cool to take advantage of mother nature's power.
My friend pumped up his black kite rock hard, and left it out in the sun... and it popped. Something to keep in mind is the pressure will build if it is left in the sun, and the pressure will go down if it gets wet with cool water. [PV=nRT]
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Ya Dave good luck wingfoiling at SanO in the typical summer winds. Plan on taking a trip up to Belmont when the surf is flat you'll have blast up there when it's blowing solid 20 mph.
Had a guy out ystdy w/ a Naish 5.3 on a SUP, and really not going anywhere, but then again it wasn't even windy enough to get me out of the water right away (I did eventually when the meager offerings turned even worse). So yeah, I'm becoming resigned to the fact that it looks like I'm gonna have to drive about an hour or more to find a place to actually us it. Not something I'm all that wild about, since I've never been one who enjoys being in a car much, even when someone else is doing the driving. :)
SanO I feel ya. Our spots get ruined above 7-8 mph too but that won’t get you anywhere. I’m gonna track wind speed for a while before I take on another sport.
The bold is a great idea...I wish I had done that before I jumped in with both feet. Especially given the fact that I've never done any "wind" sport...besides the typical $1 kite we got at the 7-11 when we were kids on a windy day. :P
Hey Dave,
After our mutual hassles with getting our Gong V1 7m wings last summer I got a quiver of Fone wings and pretty much gave up on the 7m. When I did try it on really light slop onshore days I would be out there flapping that 7m wing like a fool and whining about only short runs in the gusts. When you posted that video of your buddy on his V2 Gong wing at a lake I decided to give my 7m another try -only this time I decided to see what would happen if I pumped the wing up to max recommended 10psi instead of the usual 8. I figured if it exploded it would at least be entertaining. Wow! That thing pretty much flew along by itself. All I had to do was pump my backhand like a windsurf sail and I got instant power. Had one of my best sessions ever on my 6’6” Kalama with an Axis 1020/440 kit. Now I kinda understand more how important it is to have a stiff leading edge on these things.
Yeah, "Air Boom Ron" (guy on the lake) can be pretty inspiring (and persuasive)...so much so he can make one go through another round of Gong hassles for a second time, after getting rid of their first wing w/o ever even taking it out of the backpack. At least this new Pulse has made it out of the backpack to be blown up in the backyard...but still hasn't gotten wet, and they way things are going, not sure if it ever will. :-\
But thanks for the heads up on the max pressure thing should I ever decide to pump it up again for some crazy arse reason. Lol... ;D
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SanO yeah man, research, what a concept right? lol
I’m also going to talk to some of the kite surfers. But Hdip shot me a video of a dude on Instagram who is winging up here. So it’s clearly doable as these conditions are not even the highest wind we see.
https://www.instagram.com/p/CDIDzmBDjXc/?igshid=3kfw79s05st5
I still like the idea of taking a trip to somewhere windier to get started so I could get a few days in a row. My foil progress will be greatly improved once we can travel again. A week in Waikiki will do my skills and my head some good right about now.
DW, thank you for the tip. I’d be mad as hell to get to FL and deal with the same water temps as home! But I’m assuming the warm vs cold water also correspond with the hurricane tracks too? It’s always a trade off. But my wife is seriously scoping rental property down there so I’ll pass this on.
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Hdip shot me a video of a dude on Instagram who is winging up here. So it’s clearly doable as these conditions are not even the highest wind we see.
Hi Cowboy,
Those are really nice conditions for winging. You can go in much less. There may be instances where video doesn't tell the story, but honestly, it almost always does. In this instance he is clearly spilling air (hiding his wing from the wind) the whole time. Those are also great conditions to learn in so if you get that or more with any frequency you are in a good spot. Lighter wind is super helpful to learn in provided that your gear is big enough. The whole early notion that you needed 20 to have fun came about when only 4 meter wings were available. With a 5 or a 6 and a big foil, 12 to 15 MPH is the ideal learning wind.
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Thanks Admin. I have been baffled by this lol. The early discussions seemed to not make sense with all the kites near the spot where this was filmed but I assumed they were just able to get into more wind.
2200cm2 wing, 64kg, and a 5m seemed like it should be doable.
I’ll likely wait a bit, as I said, til I can guarantee a few days of wind in a row but I’m definitely looking for a starter wing. Is it hilarious that a lot of us on this forum have basically signed up for a year or more of learning curve on multiple sports? I think it speaks to our adaptability... and questionable sanity? ;D
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Absolutely. Wingfoilers are in the first group to launch (with the the earlybird kitefoilers). The non foiling kiters are almost never out yet. If a location has a kite spot, it has a wing spot. If I understand that you are 64 kg then you are going to have a great time on that kit.
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Sometimes the only group is the wingfoilers and a few kite foilers. I went again in the late afternoon yesterday. The wind had dropped to nothing much, and what there was, was highly variable. gusts strong enough to raise whitecaps and lulls wide enough to drop kites. There were lots of kites on the beach, but only two in the air flown by the better kite foilers with long lines and 10M kites.
I pumped up my 6M and went out with the 1000 wing. I got up, but it was a struggle, and when I hit the big lulls I couldn't stay up. So I went in and switched to the 1150. Had a great time floating around. The 1150 actually turns better than the 1010--I can't for the life of me say why. I can kind of pivot turn it, very tightly, or carve a sweeping turn the seems kind of locked in.
Once again I was up for cooking dinner so I couldn't stay as long as I wanted, I bailed about 5:30, and the wind was pooping out anyway. One of the kites was down in the water when I left, but there were still three wingfoilers having varied levels of success in the shitty wind.
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Very cool Cowboy, thanks for forwarding the clip...and appreciate hearing Admin and Pono saying that that's actually favorable conditions...gives me encouragement to get the wing wet at least one time before pulling the plug.
That's really the main reason I'm starting to buy the Axis stuff, because that seems to be the "go to" wingding foil brand at the moment (at least here at the Zone anyway), followed by all of the various combinations one can tune to - at a fairly reasonable cost - that the other brands at the moment can't seem to match in one category or another.
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My 2 cents:
Cowboy at your weight just about everyday could be a wingday.
Dave at our weight Sano in the summer is more like once a week for an hour or so. But some of the gaps nearby had more wind last time i was there...
If the Cabrillo sensor is accurate there is enough for me to fly with a 6m right now.
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Cowboy at your weight just about everyday could be a wingday.
Dave at our weight Sano in the summer is more like once a week for an hour or so. But some of the gaps nearby had more wind last time i was there...
Hey...wth!? I thought we were friends Clay. :o >:(
JKing...it's all good, I know what you mean/meant, and no offense taken. Lol... ;);D
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Haha, and yes, I’m 63kg (138 lbs +/- 2)
Now y’all know why I always ask what your wives ride. ;D
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Haha, and yes, I’m 63kg (138 lbs +/- 2)
HA! Yeah see that, our numbers are exactly the same! Just in a different order is all...and no, I'm not 318 lbs. :P :D
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This morning my grandson had a windsurfing lesson that was supposed to start at 10 at the event center. There wasn't enough wind to even do the simulation stuff, so the start time kept being pushed back. I blew up my 6M and put the 1150 on and laid down to wait for wind. BTW, a wing makes a nice place to lay and if you let some of the air out the leading edge is a great pillow. At about 11:30 iWindsurf said there was 8mph of wind, and I thought it was worth trying. I'd seen a few kiters get their kites up, sort of, and try to foil, but no go. So I slowly glided to the middle of the river, caught a puff, and got up. I made a few reaches, semi jibed (brief touchdown but got back up) but mostly I was pumping both the wing and the board all the way across the river, both ways.
I came in, a beaten man, so of course, the wind started coming up. Admin showed up, I went to check on the grandkid--all good, so I went back out and the wind steadily built until I had to go down to a five. Probably should have gone to 4.2 but that would have been much too smart.
I wound up foiling until 5:00 with brief interruptions to check to see the kid hadn't drowned. The "kid" btw, weighs about 30 pounds more than me and is my height-6' something. By the time I put everything away and waited for his lesson to end it was flat out nuking and my 5 meter was totally feathered overhead all the time. 3.5M would have been good. It's amazing how much range these wings have. Back in my windsurfing days I would have gone through five sails and three boards chasing wind speed.
Anyway, if you want to float around in next to no wind, the 1150 is your huckleberry. It just makes it easy.