Standup Zone Forum
The Foil Zone => Wingsurfing, Windfoiling, Wingfoiling, Wing SUP => Topic started by: Dwight (DW) on May 08, 2020, 07:20:42 AM
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So I’ve seen images of Kai Lenny and Kane (kdmaui) on these wings.
Curious minds say hummm!
https://www.instagram.com/p/B_6sxZQHc_N/?igshid=1twrl3yaltypv
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I think ensis is owned by Swiss Windfoil phenom Balz Muller-
https://www.ensis-watersports.com
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Ah...so this guy is him
https://www.instagram.com/p/B_203zNDFZg/?igshid=eavbl13vfjwo
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6/9 knots with 3.5 Wing and 2100 foil front wing.. the guy is really skilled, what do you think about that?
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Ah...so this guy is him
https://www.instagram.com/p/B_203zNDFZg/?igshid=eavbl13vfjwo
Amazing riding! That push tack looks so cool. I wondered when that was going to show up with the wing.
Super impressed also by how stable that wing looks. Both of the videos show guys pumping it hard and almost no wing flex. The long handles look nice as well. Cool to see this!
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6/9 knots with 3.5 Wing and 2100 foil front wing.. the guy is really skilled, what do you think about that?
I have the same Moses foil rig. To bad I can’t ride it 1/100th as well as Balz, but he is always an inspiration to us feeble mortals. He could ride circles around most people with a bed sheet and sticks
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Some stuff from facebook:
Here are some pics of the one with the window. This is the 6 Meter. Guessing that 11 PSI has a lot to do with what appears to be crazy rigidity. I wonder if they are doing anything different there in terms of materials / reinforcement or if they are just suggesting much higher PSI's.
Recommended pressure is 9 to 11 psi
Three simple handles along the boom strut.
(https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/94708413_2547417092177241_4243487139385311232_n.jpg?_nc_cat=107&_nc_sid=07e735&_nc_ohc=Bd4wQlC7Lk0AX8zWRxk&_nc_ht=scontent-sea1-1.xx&oh=07202f959f00223d403da1e239aae00b&oe=5EDC23E0)
(https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/95385476_2547417075510576_6989059942724403200_n.jpg?_nc_cat=111&_nc_sid=07e735&_nc_ohc=DFyl_ZV8ZmIAX8O3E5o&_nc_ht=scontent-sea1-1.xx&oh=fdb6514bea3d917db907f3109178b594&oe=5EDD7CF0)
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So Balz did another Instagram post showing his top speed using a 6m Ensis wing along with the Moses W1100 front wing. He clocked a top speed of 43.3 km/hr in a 12 knot breeze,....around double the wind speed. He was ripping on that foil. Aside from skill being a big factor, and the wing a ding being part of the reason,....the other Important part is the foil wing. That Moses 1100 he used might be a big 2100 sq cm, however it is very low profile compared to a fatty Axis 1020. Just a guess but I’d say probably around 2-2.5 liter compared to the 4+ liter 1020 (Moses doesn’t spec wing volume). Wing a dings provide the horse power but IMHO you need a low drag foil (thin) to take advantage of it..... For me the holy grail is big speed RANGE, not just top speed, or lowest (stall) speed. Next goal: pull off a 360 in 12 knots with the 1100 and a 6m Echo...
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https://www.facebook.com/balzsurfsport/videos/383071635921610/?
Not sure if this video posted correctly but this is sick. That 6m looks really stiff. Too bad the website doesn’t show any prices or how to order etc.
He said wind was 0-12 knots, using a 58l board and 2100cm Moses, weighs 80kg. Dude has skills.
Really opens up areas that I hadn’t considered winging...
D
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Fricking Zuckerberg.. 'Bow to me first.'
Jim
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https://youtu.be/Zre1U2ry26s
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Interesting comments about the diameter of the leading edge being positively correlated with low end grunt. It intuitively makes sense. Trade off is probably upwind ability.
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Maybe it is the handle positions but it doesn't look like that wing is supporting itself well in light air. The protos without the windows looked so good. Second model?
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Attach a windsurfing boom -- very clever.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kXR4n7tRipY
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Looks like a V2 without windows is in the wild now (for sale at least in the UK). Great looking wing.
(https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/117106120_10101514268577664_4424326564684580631_o.jpg?_nc_cat=104&_nc_sid=b9115d&_nc_ohc=8zw-Yqlr7BMAX-v69vx&_nc_ht=scontent-sea1-1.xx&oh=9bcadc0265b13a54c96786ab21eceb26&oe=5F518A53)
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I’ve had the 6m for a while, it’s fantastic. Recently swapped my Naish S25 4.6 for a 4.5m Ensis too and an orange 3.5 is in its way to me. Light, v stiff, powerful and great to fly.👍 Rumor has it they are producing Wing boards, probably from Balz design next spring🤪mike
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Sweet Mike,
Do you have the V1 with windows or the V2 without? How are the handles?
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They dispensed with the big trailing edge cutaway, which seem kind of silly, though the trailing edge flapping probably isn't a beneficial element of mode squared off wings.
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Admin, my 6m is V1 with windows blue/grey. My 4.5m in B2 no windows blue/grey and v light. My 3.5m in orange/grey V2 no windows. The 6m has been fantastic, not been windy enough for the 4.5/3.5 since last week. But I love them, light, stiff and powerful. Plus I love the handles.Mike
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3VGItgD1yI0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VGQWS5MGFL4
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My thoughts...
The Ensis has sheet and go power. It gives the wing a powerful feeling, and a easy to get going characteristic. The worse your pumping skill, the more likely you are to think it’s very powerful. The sheet and go power is so good, your first ride, you might even wheelie the board. This power also helps with coming out of jibes on foil. Less finesse needed, just sheet in and ride away from every jibe.
The draft stability is the best I’ve experienced. I’ve yet to get backwinded driving high into the wind, or taking on big gusts. The center web panel stays tight all the time, even when riding way, way, beyond normal, sane, power limits. This is particularly amazing, when you consider this wing goes upwind better than anything I’ve ridden, by a good margin. I’m seriously thinking, I don’t need to mess with a car shuttle. I can rocket upwind, then downwind to home. It is a total freak upwind. I might be able to match a kite foiler upwind! Not a race kite foiler, but general kite foilers. A ridiculous thought a year ago.
The handling when wave riding, is flawless. The balance from the nose handle is unbeatable.
When down in the water, wind nuking beyond belief, the wing just sits calmly on the surface. It never tries to whip around and pull your arms out of the socket. Tame behavior all the time.
The long handles give the hand placement freedom of a boom, without the weight of a boom. The handles are nice. Better than I imagined they would be. It feels direct and positive in the hands. Not floppy. Great handles.
Where does the power come from? You sure can’t tell by looking at it. It’s not a deep canopy shape or fat leading edge wing.
I bought every size.
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My thoughts...
The Ensis has sheet and go power. It gives the wing a powerful feeling, and a easy to get going characteristic. The worse your pumping skill, the more likely you are to think it’s very powerful. The sheet and go power is so good, your first ride, you might even wheelie the board. This power also helps with coming out of jibes on foil. Less finesse needed, just sheet in and ride away from every jibe.
The draft stability is the best I’ve experienced. I’ve yet to get backwinded driving high into the wind, or taking on big gusts. The center web panel stays tight all the time, even when riding way, way, beyond normal, sane, power limits. This is particularly amazing, when you consider this wing goes upwind better than anything I’ve ridden, by a good margin. I’m seriously thinking, I don’t need to mess with a car shuttle. I can rocket upwind, then downwind to home. It is a total freak upwind. I might be able to match a kite foiler upwind! Not a race kite foiler, but general kite foilers. A ridiculous thought a year ago.
The handling when wave riding, is flawless. The balance from the nose handle is unbeatable.
When down in the water, wind nuking beyond belief, the wing just sits calmly on the surface. It never tries to whip around and pull your arms out of the socket. Tame behavior all the time.
The long handles give the hand placement freedom of a boom, without the weight of a boom. The handles are nice. Better than I imagined they would be. It feels direct and positive in the hands. Not floppy. Great handles.
Where does the power come from? You sure can’t tell by looking at it. It’s not a deep canopy shape or fat leading edge wing.
I bought every size.
Wow! That's some endorsement. So, would the 6 metre Ennis have the same power as the 7 metre Echo?
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The wing part looks great. The backs of my knuckles started bleeding though just looking at those handles, way too close to the strut. Looks like a relatively easy short boom mod.
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The wing part looks great. The backs of my knuckles started bleeding though just looking at those handles, way too close to the strut. Looks like a relatively easy short boom mod.
My knuckles never touched
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Wow! That's some endorsement. So, would the 6 metre Ensis have the same power as the 7 metre Echo?
My buddy, who owns a 7m Echo, thinks the 5.2m Ensis has the low end of his 7m. I think that’s an exaggeration though. I think his thoughts are skewed a bit, by how easy sheet and go power works, for someone less skilled at pumping onto foil.
It’s probably fair to claim the Echo 7m and 6m Ensis will have similar low end, although I have yet to ride my 6m Ensis. Been riding the 5.2m in 12-25 mph wind.
FYI the Axis guys are the US distributor. You can buy from any shop selling Axis.
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How's the weight Dwight? These do look so good.
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How's the weight Dwight? These do look so good.
I have not put one on a scale. The 5.2 I have, is probably still wet.
Nick (FLkiter might know) he’s riding Ensis too.
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I love it that they did a 2.5. 2.5 to 3.5 is a big jump, though. Probably can live with that though.
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How's the weight Dwight? These do look so good.
Thinking about handling and power.
It is so good, it begs the question, is dihedral bad? Because the Ensis has less than any wing I’ve ridden and it handles the best, and has more power.
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I second everything Dwight says. I absolutely love my 6/4.5/3.5 and there isn’t a thing I would change about them. Will get the 2.5 soon too. My 6 is powerful but also very controllable and the fraught doesn’t move even when over powered. The handles work brilliantly, much better than the Naish and F one.
Mike
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Our inland friends who are likley working on their icefishing shacks have it on sale...
https://www.mackiteboarding.com/ensis-watersports-wing-v1/
Jim
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A buddy who can’t get registered for this forum just sent me his review. My buddy is 215 if memory is correct.
Just saw your post on the Ensis wings
I've been on them for about 3 or 4 weeks now. got the 6,5.2 and 4.5 from evan @ live2kite
For a big guy like me they are ideal. I tend to pump the wing better than the board so well suited for my skills.
Also the power really helps in saving me coming out of transitions a bit off balance..so fall much less.
I use a harness always, so now switched to mono harness lines with the really stable draft. Huge difference from the wasp where the draft moved lots
I almost could skip the 6 as the 5.2 gets me down to 14 mph no problem, but will be nice for light summer winds.
One lighter guy (name removed) tried the 5.2 and did not like it. He felt it was to powerful and locked in. LIkes the looser feel of his fone better. Maybe he would like the 4.5 better.
I can't seem to get approved for the standupzone forum. I register and it emails back the admin will approve me but that never happens...tried several times . Probably some email blockage issue.
I did send him Admin’s tips for beating the system ;D
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The wing part looks great. The backs of my knuckles started bleeding though just looking at those handles, way too close to the strut. Looks like a relatively easy short boom mod.
My knuckles never touched
Mine definitely would, I'd get a dark color like this one so the blood won't show.
Next wings will be something I don't have to mod right out of the box.
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What the best can do with a 5.2 in very little wind! As far as skinning knuckles -- get a pair of gloves with the half the fingers cut away (any big building supply place will have them). I'm looking forward to more feedback about this wing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CzIdyb4UUDI
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The wing part looks great. The backs of my knuckles started bleeding though just looking at those handles, way too close to the strut. Looks like a relatively easy short boom mod.
Mine definitely would, I'd get a dark color like this one so the blood won't show.
Next wings will be something I don't have to mod right out of the box.
hi all . . . I am new and have been trying to get on the forum for a long while . . . thanks to Dwight's hint, I am here after just a few hours :)
I have had the ENSIS wings since September I think and thought the same as you regarding the knuckles. However when you have power in the wing, the handles do not sit close to the strut is what I have found . . . and the knuckles are clear of the strut.
I am 86kg and started with the 5.2 and 3.5 (love it). Although the gap is fine, I have a 4.5 arriving today or tomorrow and a 2.5 on order. I have not used any other wings so can't compare directly though they seem to be powerful for their size.
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A buddy who can’t get registered for this forum just sent me his review.
I can't seem to get approved for the standupzone forum. I register and it emails back the admin will approve me but that never happens...tried several times . Probably some email blockage issue.
I had a similar issue when I tried to register. I emailed the site support address and received a reply stating that I should try to register again using a very obvious water sports name. It worked and then I changed my username back to what I wanted in the user control panel.
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There is a new sheriff in town.
Kelly Park today
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50621513558_baa1621ac9_c.jpg)
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how many of those are yours? ;D
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From the photo it looks like the Axis gang was in town.
I'm a little surprised that those using Armstrong foils haven't all jumped on the Armstrong A-Wing -- I've heard good things about it.
Anyone know what the differences are between a similar sized Echo and Ensis -- positives and negatives. I've used an Echo, Wasp and the new Cabrinha -- I think the Echo would be my first choice, although I don't like its unruly behaviour when it's on its own in the wind.
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how many of those are yours? ;D
3
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From the photo it looks like the Axis gang was in town.
I'm a little surprised that those using Armstrong foils haven't all jumped on the Armstrong A-Wing -- I've heard good things about it.
Anyone know what the differences are between a similar sized Echo and Ensis -- positives and negatives. I've used an Echo, Wasp and the new Cabrinha -- I think the Echo would be my first choice, although I don't like its unruly behaviour when it's on its own in the wind.
Handles are why none of my friends jumped on A-wings. We are boom fans.
The Ensis, has the direct feel and hand placement freedom of a boom, without the negatives.
Today, another buddy, who is a massive hater of handles, tried the Ensis. He told me the next wing he buys to fill gaps in his Echo quiver, will be the Ensis.
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I’m drinking the kool aid here and just ordered a 6m seems like a good wing choice for a heavyweight for starters on the ensis wings,been happy with my starboard/airush wings but been intrigued with ensis for a while and after hearing the reviews here I’m jumping in looking forward to trying it out
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From the photo it looks like the Axis gang was in town.
I'm a little surprised that those using Armstrong foils haven't all jumped on the Armstrong A-Wing -- I've heard good things about it.
Anyone know what the differences are between a similar sized Echo and Ensis -- positives and negatives. I've used an Echo, Wasp and the new Cabrinha -- I think the Echo would be my first choice, although I don't like its unruly behaviour when it's on its own in the wind.
Handles are why none of my friends jumped on A-wings. We are boom fans.
The Ensis, has the direct feel and hand placement freedom of a boom, without the negatives.
Today, another buddy, who is a massive hater of handles, tried the Ensis. He told me the next wing he buys to fill gaps in his Echo quiver, will be the Ensis.
Thanks for the response. I'm also a big fan of the boom and it looks like the Ensis has most of the advantages of the boom (Echo) and perhaps a better bottom end with a controllable top end (little to no backwinding) without the drama (flipping around on the lease while you pull it in). Overall I feel the Echo is a really good wing. If the Ensis is a better wing then it must be near or at the top of the wing offerings currently available.
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....thought the same as you regarding the knuckles. However when you have power in the wing, the handles do not sit close to the strut is what I have found . . . and the knuckles are clear of the strut.
I saw that in the video as well, unfortunately too close. Still it looks like an easy mod to two short booms as the wing looks great. Cut the handles in the middle, add 4-6" and put something similar to what I've used on my wings. It's worked great all summer but even this was too much occasional abrasion.
It's unfortunate it's so hard to try this stuff before buying...
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Hi guys,
Lets get some weights. Stoked to see that they ditched the windows. The original video of Kahului harbor with that ultra stable looking wing was pretty convincing. It looks like they have now produced that design. Sweet. It will be cool to see how these compare to the upcoming F-Ones. Great times for wingers.
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4.5m is 5 lbs 4oz
Leading edge Dacron feels more heavy duty and stiffer, but it could be just the new crispy material feeling. I actually hope it is more heavy duty.
Triple rip stop canopy is going to be heavier than double rip stop. This is triple.
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Another look at the Ensis:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IttAGLUEOuI
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Dwight, from your posts and from Evans’s texts to our chat group it seems like you are partying with the Axis boys. ;)
He tells me it’s pretty good there. I’m dying to get down there.
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I'd be interested in hearing flkiter's impressions of the Ensis V2 wing. I was seriously thinking about purchasing a 7 metre Echo but all this Ensis talk has given me pause.
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Dwight's review is pretty spot on. I think the strap handles allows for the wing to sit perfect for the arm reach of each rider. I find I can go up wind really quickly with this wing and if I'm riding on shore light winds, I can keep the tail up without having the dreaded riding into the wing while on wave that I've had with so many other wings. The handle doesn't go all the way to the front of the strut which I think is designed that way to get the pull point back from the nose of the wing, helping it to avoid back winding easily. The jumps are solid and actually a bit floaty if you can imagine. I've ridden several boom'd wings factory and aftermarket set ups and I've never really liked them. I liked the stiffness and speed the wings could go in turns and up wind but the whole adjusting and weight in the waves was the down side to me. The ensis gives the best of all the wings. Plus with long handles I can rest my arms some by adjusting where I'm holding the wing at and ride in a less aggressive stance.
Things I'd like to see changed in the future, shorter wing tips of possible. Deflate dump valve on strut, bigger bag with pocket, leash like F1 rope material. Other than that little things, they've been awesome wings. I'm now mostly on 5.2&3.5 which with F1 it was 6&4.2. plus I'm using smaller foils since the frame is really ridged and throws you onto foil quickly, I get away with less foil under me. So smaller wing, smaller foil for the same winds.
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Anybody have any comparisons between ensis v2 and Brm wings? Haven’t heard anything lately about the brm wings
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Dwight's review is pretty spot on. I think the strap handles allows for the wing to sit perfect for the arm reach of each rider. I find I can go up wind really quickly with this wing and if I'm riding on shore light winds, I can keep the tail up without having the dreaded riding into the wing while on wave that I've had with so many other wings. The handle doesn't go all the way to the front of the strut which I think is designed that way to get the pull point back from the nose of the wing, helping it to avoid back winding easily. The jumps are solid and actually a bit floaty if you can imagine. I've ridden several boom'd wings factory and aftermarket set ups and I've never really liked them. I liked the stiffness and speed the wings could go in turns and up wind but the whole adjusting and weight in the waves was the down side to me. The ensis gives the best of all the wings. Plus with long handles I can rest my arms some by adjusting where I'm holding the wing at and ride in a less aggressive stance.
Things I'd like to see changed in the future, shorter wing tips of possible. Deflate dump valve on strut, bigger bag with pocket, leash like F1 rope material. Other than that little things, they've been awesome wings. I'm now mostly on 5.2&3.5 which with F1 it was 6&4.2. plus I'm using smaller foils since the frame is really ridged and throws you onto foil quickly, I get away with less foil under me. So smaller wing, smaller foil for the same winds.
Thanks very much for the reply. This wing seems to be a real winner.
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Anyone tried the Cabrinha Crosswing X2? A different take on boom-like handles. Wonder how it compares to Ensis. I bought a 5M X2, but have only tried it on land so far. Feels great to me, but this is my first wing, so I have no basis for comparison. Tucker at Mac Kiteboarding gave it a thorough review.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZqYwSs0corw
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I suspect the quiet around BRM is more because Jason H's YouTube seems to be their entire marketing department. 😂 Super small brand but I wouldn't see that as bad.
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I own all the BRM Cloud wings, sizes 2-6M.
In the past I've owned slingshot v1, duotone v1, ozone, f-one, Naish v2. I've tested friends' Armstrong wings.
I like the Cloud wings the best based on their lightness, power, rigidity, handles and narrow width (to avoid burying the wingtips). The 5 and 6M leaving edges are huge but they seem to provide great grunt in light wind.
I should be able to test an Ensis next week and report back with a comparison!
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Anyone tried the Cabrinha Crosswing X2? A different take on boom-like handles. Wonder how it compares to Ensis. I bought a 5M X2, but have only tried it on land so far. Feels great to me, but this is my first wing, so I have no basis for comparison. Tucker at Mac Kiteboarding gave it a thorough review.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZqYwSs0corw
According to Tucker (email to me), the Cabrinha Crosswing X2 has the best sheet in and go power of all the wings they carry.
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Anyone tried the Cabrinha Crosswing X2? A different take on boom-like handles. Wonder how it compares to Ensis. I bought a 5M X2, but have only tried it on land so far. Feels great to me, but this is my first wing, so I have no basis for comparison. Tucker at Mac Kiteboarding gave it a thorough review.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZqYwSs0corw
There's a thread here regarding the Cabrinha V2 wing. I demoed it and found it backwinded a bit too much for my taste -- I liked its power and the handles (mini booms).
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My first post here after considerable difficulty registering, almost gave up but then saw a useful tip about what your user name should be to get approved.
Anyhow, I’ve had the Ensis 5,2 for a week now. Had 3 sessions on it. Other wings I have owned or tried of similar size are the Naish 5,3, Armstrong 5,5, Duotone Echo 5.
All of these wings have positives and negatives. As far as the Ensis goes the positives for me are:
instant low end power; stiff canopy; build quality; upwind ability without backwinding; relatively small leading edge; stability when flagged out; good handles; large wind range; no windows; relatively light.
Negatives are: ridiculously small bag; flat profile makes tacking more difficult than other wings with dihedral shape; valve system (much prefer the Naish spring valve); large wingspan makes dunking the wing tips common; wing stability necessitates more aggressive man-handling of the wing in transitions; I don’t believe this wing is the size they claim - seems bigger to me.
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A couple of buddies laid the 5m Echo on top of the 5.2m Ensis. They found them identical in size and planform, wing tip width, center span, wing tip to wing tip width. FYI, the 6m is the odd man out in the range. Its planform is different than all the other sizes. The 6 reminds me of the Naish 6m in planform.
I think the Ensis has double thick Dacron in the center zone of the leading edge. This might be the source of the tremendous stiffness. It doesn’t need 10 psi to be stiff. Or a huge leading edge to be stiff. 7 psi is super stiff with this wing.
I wonder if dihedral naturally reduces power. Less projected area to the wind with dihedral. The Ensis has almost no dihedral....the source of the huge power?
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I wonder if dihedral naturally reduces power. Less projected area to the wind with dihedral. The Ensis has almost no dihedral....the source of the huge power?
Dihedral 100% reduces power (efficiency). Think of all the foils with Dihedral. :o Ohhhh there are NONE! Because it isn't efficient.
Dihedral was invented for stability. If stability isn't needed then remove it.
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I own all the BRM Cloud wings, sizes 2-6M.
In the past I've owned slingshot v1, duotone v1, ozone, f-one, Naish v2. I've tested friends' Armstrong wings.
I like the Cloud wings the best based on their lightness, power, rigidity, handles and narrow width (to avoid burying the wingtips). The 5 and 6M leaving edges are huge but they seem to provide great grunt in light wind.
I should be able to test an Ensis next week and report back with a comparison!
NewEnglandFoiler- Where in NE do you wing?
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The head scratcher in all this...the dihedral wind wings are the least stable.
My guess....we are unique and something else is going on, that makes more dihedral miss behave.
I think it is the wind getting under the raised tip. Our nose must stay pointed perfectly into the wind when on the nose handle. Any wind crab angle and wind gets under the elevated tip and the oscillation begins.
The least dihedral wind wings, as so tame.
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The head scratcher in all this...the dihedral wind wings are the least stable.
My guess....we are unique and something else is going on, that makes more dihedral miss behave.
I think it is the wind getting under the raised tip. Our nose must stay pointed perfectly into the wind when on the nose handle. Any wind crab angle and wind gets under the elevated tip and the oscillation begins.
The least dihedral wind wings, as so tame.
Have you seen Jeffrey Spencer busting backflips holding Slingshot's delta shaped dihedral wing? That thing looks super stable somehow. Probably not efficient, but who needs efficiency with Maui's nuking winds.
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Have you seen Jeffrey Spencer busting backflips holding Slingshot's delta shaped dihedral wing? That thing looks super stable somehow.
Lots of dihedral wind wings are super stable, until they are not. They have moments.
The Ensis has never had a moment. Nuking crazy wind, and it still acts like it’s taking a dirt nap.
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I own all the BRM Cloud wings, sizes 2-6M.
In the past I've owned slingshot v1, duotone v1, ozone, f-one, Naish v2. I've tested friends' Armstrong wings.
I like the Cloud wings the best based on their lightness, power, rigidity, handles and narrow width (to avoid burying the wingtips). The 5 and 6M leaving edges are huge but they seem to provide great grunt in light wind.
I should be able to test an Ensis next week and report back with a comparison!
NewEnglandFoiler- Where in NE do you wing?
I mostly SUP and wing eastern Massachusetts including Nahant, Pleasure Bay, Duxbury, Horseneck, Nantucket and occasionally Rye NH and Rhode Island (Point Judith area).
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The head scratcher in all this...the dihedral wind wings are the least stable.
My guess....we are unique and something else is going on, that makes more dihedral miss behave.
I think it is the wind getting under the raised tip. Our nose must stay pointed perfectly into the wind when on the nose handle. Any wind crab angle and wind gets under the elevated tip and the oscillation begins.
The least dihedral wind wings, as so tame.
Have you seen Jeffrey Spencer busting backflips holding Slingshot's delta shaped dihedral wing? That thing looks super stable somehow. Probably not efficient, but who needs efficiency with Maui's nuking winds.
There are some images of the Slingshot "Dart" linked below:
https://www.standupzone.com/forum/index.php/topic,36555.0.html
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The head scratcher in all this...the dihedral wind wings are the least stable.
My guess....we are unique and something else is going on, that makes more dihedral miss behave.
I think it is the wind getting under the raised tip. Our nose must stay pointed perfectly into the wind when on the nose handle. Any wind crab angle and wind gets under the elevated tip and the oscillation begins.
The least dihedral wind wings, as so tame.
This is possible. Dihedral is supposed to be stable in Roll. But it can cause adverse yaw effects which you may be experiencing and figuring out.
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Dihedral provides stability by increasing lift on the low wing when a wing is tilted relative to the center of gravity. Lovely when you're flying level. How often does that happen with a foil wing? Never would be a good guess. Still, in many cases it makes the wing more stable, but if the righting movement shifts the center of gravity (which it does often with a foil wing) the righting effect changes and even reverses, so the wing hunts.
To see an example, hold the wing over your head and hang your weight steadily down--the wing is stable. Now tilt it a tiny bit and don't put as much weight on it. If the dihedral is working as it should it will wobble all over the place, "correcting" for CG that is constantly shifting as the wing wobbles.
The common fix is a little washout in the wingtips. Washout makes the wing stall at the root of the wing before the wingtips by reducing the incidence angle of the wingtip relative to the root but also stabilizes the wing as it wobbles around by reducing lift of the lower wingtip. But there is no complete cure, any time the CG can move around the dihedral will try to correct.
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The really impressive thing about this wing is how freaking stable it looks in every video. Most of the time it looks like a solid structure. Very impressed by that. Sizes are great too. 4.5, 3.5, 2.5 quiver. Hmmm
Anyone have a link to that original video of that guy in Kahului harbor?
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I opened the zipper and felt around the mystery stitch on the leading edge. There really is a second layer of Dacron in the center area of the leading edge. It extents to the mystery stitch. About 4 feet each side of center.
That has to part of the magic. A not fat leading edge, yet the most rigid, non distorting, wind wing I’ve ever flown.
I think we need a 1.9m
I’m in love with the Liquid Force fill valve. It fills so fast, with no back pressure. Deflates and rolls up with no resistance.
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That will certainly help. All these wings flex a lot which changes the aero aspects dynamically. In a lot of ways, it's remarkable that they are as stable as they currently are.
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dwight - are you saying the ensis wings use the liquid force valve? or is that an aside about a different wing?
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yes, they use the LF valve. It has Liquid Force logo on it.
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I’ve pretty much ridden two wings (Duotone V1 and Echo), two foils (Gong Pro XL and Gong Veloce XL), and two boards (Blue Planet 5’8” Carver and FSM 5’1” 90L) from day one, minus a quick test of handles (Naish S25) and Moses foils (1100 and 790). That’s it for 14 months.
A tip of the hat to the gear testers. Man that must get pricey :). Then again I just bought a travel trailer to spend a chunk of my retirement roaming around to different US coastal sailing spots. It’s all good!
(Other than less than perfect one handed luffing stability, I’ve never had an issue with the Echo dihedral stability in general. Rolls nice and fast for those challenging upwind transitions)
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A tip of the hat to the gear testers. Man that must get pricey :).
Being an equipment junkie is lots of fun if you have the financial wherewithal. The upside is that you get to try out and play with lots of new toys. You also get to give your feedback -- which is taken seriously since you have the background to make up-to-date comparisons to other products you have owned.
The downside is that you run the risk of replacing equipment with the latest and greatest only to later conclude that you preferred some of the replaced equipment -- that's the risk but if you can afford it then who cares!
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I now have an ENSIS quiver that started with the 5.2 and 3.5 and have since added the 4.5 and 2.5
Wings that have a lot of power at their bottom end when compared to my friend (same weight and gear) using Echos but just an observation as I have never used the Echos so someone who has used both could make a more informed comment on this.
Used the 2.5 yesterday. It is amazingly powerful/efficient and there seems little chance of catching the wingtips on the water compared to the 3.5 as it has much less wingspan.
It says 25+ knots wind range but I feel it needs much less than that to get the W1100 Moses wing up and flying and having fun for an 87kg/110L board.
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I finally have a 2.5! These wings look and feel fantastic. The handles are snug but they feel great. Having narrower shoulders I appreciate the hand placement range provided by the longer holds. I can't wait to get back in the water. We're headed to Baja in a few weeks so I'll get this wet soon.
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awesome...but don’t get too excited. haha You’ll need a 1.9m. That’s what I’ve been asking for ;D ;D
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Do you think they'll make one? That would be awesome!
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Do you think they'll make one? That would be awesome!
I’ll ask today. I’m winging with Evan.
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These look really nice. The wing feels very rigid in both the canopy and the wingtips at the suggested 8 PSI (suggested is 7-8 on the 2.5).
The handles are surprising. They feel very good in hand. For my hands on the 2.5 (we haven't opened the others yet) the straps are right on the strut so they actually have to open to allow my hand in. When my hand is in, the handle is lightly snugging my knuckles to the strut in the center of the handle and it is very tightly wedged in there at the handle edges. I am not sure how this will be for handle passes with gloves on, but it feels awesome in terms of positive connection. This seems like it will be amazing for backwinding tricks because you can immediately push out with your fists on the strut. That is a drawback to the hoopy Swing handles. When you go to backwind there is nothing to push on until the strap collapses and the strut hits your hands. A lot of times the handles collapse off center and your hands miss the center of the strut. That is hard to come back from.
I have never used this valve. It seems pretty straight forward. Is it just a pressure fit? It blew out on me once during inflation. No big deal. The wing didn't deflate at all so I just needed to reinsert. When I reinserted I did so much more firmly and it didn't happen again. Is there a trick?
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You’ll love them, the handles give a bit when used and wet. I have no problem with gloves.
The valve is just pressure fit, I lick mine first to help the pressure fit and rarely pops out.
You’ll find them very positive with a great connection to the power. They feel more like a windsurf sail to me when pumping, which you won’t need to do much.
Mike
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I press with a slight twist, to lock the pump hose on. Mine has never blown off during inflation.
This is my favorite inflation valve design. I’ve used and owned every type on the market.
The handles open up under load and stay open after break-in.
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That all sounds good. We've had snow but now we have 3 days of 50's coming up. Oh, yeah.
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It was 59 this morning in San Diego and I chickened out on going surfing--too cold. I'm disgusted with myself. Laird would give me a noogie and a wedgie.
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Hi all, does anyone have any experience or knowledge to compare Ensis v2 versus Duotone Unit's? Thanks in advance! Rob
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RobM- That's a very good question. I own 4,5, and 6m Units and have a 5.2 V2 Ensis in my posession and plan to spend a day doing back to back comparison between the two wings but have had a run of 4m wind. Will report back once I have done the test. I've read that the Unit has better low end and the Ensis has better high so will be interesting to see.
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We have been having a good time getting to know these wings. I have 6 days on the 4.5 now. We came off of a full year on the F-One Swings which which we really liked. Of all the new wings that we had seen, the Ensis looked the most enticing. They looked super stable and I liked the idea of the added handle positions and the relatively compact design. Before these, I had tried a number of other wings and hadn't found any that I liked as well as the original Swings.
I am still getting used to these but all in all I am enjoying them. They are very different than the Swings, some good, some bad. The best features are that the wing (when really inflated) is super smooth. Kinda Cadillac smooth. It points into the wind really nicely and I haven't felt any distortion yet when pointing high. It rests rock solid when single handed on the leading edge handle (that may be my favorite feature). It just sits there waiting. The wild thing is that it stays in full wing shape, just horizontal, and it seems like that shape allows the wind to support it and keeps it very mellow.
They have plenty of power. I don't really see myself using the 5.2. The 4.5 works well in 14 mph average and starts to feel too much over 20. I have been going to the 4.5 where I would have used the Swing 4.2 but I am going t start using the 3.5 for that. I am not sure that I feel more power that is unrelated to the extra size. I had no complaints with the power of the Swings, though. They both deliver in that department.
The downside of that power combined with that stability is that they don't spill wind easily. If you like a wing that you can just twitch into full off, this is not the one. Also, just like with the Swings, I didn't like them at all at listed PSI. They wander too much. They bulge a little at 9 PSI but everything gets nicer.
They are a bit heavier than the Swings and you can feel it. This contributes to the overall feel of calmness but at some expense to liveliness and directness.
The handles are mostly great. I love having the extra positions. I find that underhand front hand now works (never felt comfortable on the Swings) and they are much more rigid which feels very positive. I mentioned how nicely the wing flies off of the leading edge handle above. That is great. That same handle is a pain in the ass when down on the water. It is really high on the leading edge and it is very tight to the leading edge. That keeps it from being comfortable to push down on when knee starting. Rather than being something stable to push down on, the handle rocks down towards the water and the clew rocks up. I rely on that handle a lot for that so that is one of those major minor things for me.
I don't love the valve system but it is workable. I had though these may be quicker to deflate/bag than the Swings but they end up being about the same. Those little hose clips kept closing on us so those had to go.
I also have to work something out with the leash. The wing basically rests nicely on the water but when it is cranking and it does break free, holy shit does it want to pull your arm off. It hits the end of the leash at full power. That is isn't going to work for me in Gorge winds.
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Thx man. Solid review.
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Tried the 3.5 in pretty mellow wind yesterday with averages ranging from 15 to 20. That is a really nice wing. Strangely, the leading edge handle is sewn in a different place and is much larger (hoopier - not as tight to the leading edge) than on the 4.5. This lets it flex right down to the water and allows me to lean on it as hard as I want for balance. So nice. I wonder if all of the 4.5's are sewn like mine(?). It seems odd and it kind of interferes with the leash attachment point. I may be the only one that cares, though :). 3.5 is my most used wing and this one seems really sweet. Different handle configuration on the 3.5 as well. 2 longer handles on the 3.5 vs 2 medium sized handles with one smaller center handle on the 4.5. Both feel good, although the back handle on my 3.5 is snug to the strut and I did miss it once jibing yesterday. That may stretch out with use. I love the size of this wing and lowered down it does crank into the wind. That is fairly addicting. It will be interesting to see if I can use this to mostly fill the place of the Swing 4.2. If so I will be really stoked. Today it is going to 10 PSI and we will see :).
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Tried the 3.5 in pretty mellow wind yesterday with averages ranging from 15 to 20. That is a really nice wing. Strangely, the leading edge handle is sewn in a different place and is much larger (hoopier - not as tight to the leading edge) than on the 4.5. This lets it flex right down to the water and allows me to lean on it as hard as I want for balance. So nice. I wonder if all of the 4.5's are sewn like mine(?). It seems odd and it kind of interferes with the leash attachment point. I may be the only one that cares, though :). 3.5 is my most used wing and this one seems really sweet. Different handle configuration on the 3.5 as well. 2 longer handles on the 3.5 vs 2 medium sized handles with one smaller center handle on the 4.5. Both feel good, although the back handle on my 3.5 is snug to the strut and I did miss it once jibing yesterday. That may stretch out with use. I love the size of this wing and lowered down it does crank into the wind. That is fairly addicting. It will be interesting to see if I can use this to mostly fill the place of the Swing 4.2. If so I will be really stoked. Today it is going to 10 PSI and we will see :).
My wife and did a lot of wing switching on the water yesterday between Ensis 3.5, Swing 4.2 and Swing 5.0. There is not much doubt in my mind the Ensis 3.5 can replace the Swing 4.2 and is actually closer to the Swing 5 in terms of low end. All wings were inflated up to the manufacturers recommendation (as best we could). I have not noticed any issue with the leading edge handle on the Ensis for my use. The only real downside for us with the Ensis, and it is not a minor one is that in overpowered conditions, it is more physically demanding than less stiff wings.
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I was on the 2.5m yesterday. Walking back to the van, I’m noticing my knuckles rubbing, holding the nose handle. l look at the handle, WTF, it’s different than all our other sizes.
Could this be good news? Meaning Ensis is a company that will make improvements when they see an opportunity? That’s better than a brand that won’t change crap stuff until the new model year. I hate brands like that.
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The only real downside for us with the Ensis, and it is not a minor one is that in overpowered conditions, it is more physically demanding than less stiff wings.
I am glad you said that. We weren't sure if it was just us being mostly out of commission for a few months or the wings. :) We did feel that hey were pretty physically demanding. I felt like I had been doing pushups after the 4.5 sessions and this has been mellow wind.
If I could use the 3.5 as my 4.2 and 5.0 though that would be great. How light can you go on the 3.5?
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At 230 lbs with wind in the low to mid 20s and gusts to upper 20s, touching 30, I was just a bit over powered yesterday with the 4.5 ensis in the stronger gusts so ordered the 3.5 when I got off the water ;D.. looking forward to pushing into slightly windier conditions
I've been out in a few fairly cold sessions recently with air temps from 28 to low 30s, water in the mid 30s and also kiting in these conditions and winging works surprisingly well, maybe a even a bit easier on the fingers than kiting. With modern wetsuits keeping the core warm is easy, just the fingers are the issue. The only time I have have had forearm/cold hand issue is when under powered and can't hook in to my harness. I'm unhooked most of the time just hooking in a for short upwind run lets the blood back into my finger. I think the reason winging works well is even though I grip harder than kiting I go on short tacks and switch up my grip more. Kiting I tend to get stuck with same grip for longer periods as need longer tacks to get back upwind.
The only bummer about winging vs kiting in the cold is with a kite I can stay dry getting on the board, while winging have to get wet walking out into deep enough water to start :o but that's just mental. The really good thing about winging is I am often going solo as not too many others like the cold and winging feels so much safer than solo kiting in confined onshore spots
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We are in a good stretch of wind now. It was pegged at 23 average yesterday with a pretty tight range. I pumped the 3.5 to 10. No pop, good sign :). It is great there. Starts like a dream. Upwind is terrific and the last hint of wandering is gone. Downwind still feels awesome.
I need to get Airtime to re-sew the back handle with just a little more room. The front one is fine but that back one is right on the boom and it is too easy to hit it and still not get my fingers under. wah, wah, wah. I may have them do the leading edge handle on the 4.5 as well. Chan used the 2.5 and had a great session. She thinks it feels bigger than the Swing 2.8 with less of an off option. Not sure where that leaves us. She felt like she was over and near the limit on the 2.5 and it was 23 gusting to maybe 27, 28. A tick more wind and I would have been better on a 3.0. Chan already would have been better on a 2.0. We get this wind or stronger most days in June, July and August.
I am hoping that Ensis is getting some new sizes ready.
These are really a different experience than the Swings. It is more of a camber induced feel. Really locked in and stable but...really locked in and stable. I can see how harnessed riders love these. I think they will be great for upwind/downwind and they will be awesome point to point downwind wings. For all out playfullness and that unlocked freedom of motion feel, they lose something. It is an age old trade-off that windsurfers are already used to. Nice to see great options for both available in wings now. That is new!
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I am planning to try an Ensis wing and buy one if I like it.
But I read somewhere that there is a V3 coming out soon??
Who knows more about this?
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Live2Kite says hitting the factory May 15 and arriving at store June 15th-25th.
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I got to try an Ensis wing--a somewhat flogged 4.5. Beat up enough that I felt comfortable trying it (I don't mind lending gear, but I generally hate borrowing). The power was remarkable--more like a 5.0, I liked the handles, and I like the way the wing feels--very easy to fly, I know what Admin means about the camber-induced feel. But just like a camber-locked sail, there's no off switch. With the wing pretty much straight overhead I was still accelerating and felt out of control a few times. I could get used to this, I think it might be the ultimate light-ish wind wing design.
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Any reviews of the new Ensis score?
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I’ve had 4 sessions on my Score 4.5. More powerful than my V 2 4.5, more camber, but felt it has a better high end too. Windows are good, and just everything is a bit more refined, not that V2 wasn’t, but tweaks to panels, handles etc
Pleased with it but the V2’s are still great, love my 3.5/2.5. Only updated my 4.5 as it’s my most used size at 77kg.
After 1yr winging I’m getting up and going well we on smaller sized wings than I would have 6 months ago, they can be pumped up hard for max performance or with a little softer feeling for better gust munching, although you’ll lose some pumping ability, but if it’s windy enough it doesn’t matter.
Mike
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I wish Ensis would hurry up and ship the Score. You can see why in the video.
https://youtu.be/8wIu2dYsxjM
https://youtu.be/AmDmyWm6gs8
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I thought your were getting them a month ago??
I just picked up a 4.5. Quite a big change from my f-one's, but I'm liking most the changes. Lots more power, upwind capabilities are better, luff's nicely on waves, windows are nice (not the best view, but enough). I find the handles a little too thick/wide, the bag is too small, and the valve cover never wants to go back on correctly. Otherwise it's a great wing.
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Here's Balz Muller racing in light winds on the new Ensis 6.2 wind wing with a Sabfoil 799. 6 to 16kn so lots of pumping in the lulls -- mostly lulls.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FHlpjd_nCTQ